V
Vegard Krog Petersen
Susan said:
B
Boomer
I am not using #1 because that "discussion" can go to another group.
IMO
Cross posted to acfd fyi
M
Mel
Susan Bugher said:
As far as I'm concerned if it is free, legal and useful and
above all, the benefits outweigh any downside then I'm
happy to discuss any software. Although I consider it
important to include a warning of limitations and issues etc,
so everyone can use their own judgement.
This rules out :-
Hacked / cracked software including hacked spyware.
Spyware (and any adware where ads appear while the
software is not being actively used) because it's not free
- I'd only consider using such crap on a dedicated,
stand-alone windows partition and would rather pay in
cash!
At least 99% of adware, and most nagware - subject to the
availability or not of equal free alternatives.
I don't see a problem with Betas if they are stable,
especially not if the final version will be free.
(And one persons beta, is another's final release - anyone
use Word 2000
)Trials and Demos and 'crippled' software unless they still
have a practical or one-off use.
Time limited unless the usage is generous eg 1 year+
or the program would only be needed to run once.
While CD ware is off topic and should always be
marked as such, if someone discovers a top quality
commercial program going for the price of a magazine
then I'm always keen to hear about it (unless there
is a superior freeware alternative) .
And discussions about what we can and can't discuss :O)
(so my apologies for replying)
R
REMbranded
And you posted this as your opinion?
No. Many things are highly blown up here, from John's very decent
posts' to this. You're guilty too?
Do you summarily dismiss the rest of the post in your physical state?
Lazy that is.
========================================================
I think discussions can include any of the above. Warnings should be
given when appropiate, but I have no qualms about a consenting adult
_choosing_ to use adware. The same for other wares.
If a cool program is offered on a cover magazine in a particular
country I have no problems with someone alerting others to this fact.
It doesn't occur often, but some can benefit and the threads of
censure are far worse than the mere mention of the fact.
As a group my thought is that we should try to find the best tool that
is available. If a specific task has no pure alternatives evident then
I see nothing wrong with pointing out program x does this, but is
nagware. Rather than have multiple threads arguing the mention of
nagware the hope is someone out there will offer program y, which is
postcardware, and someone else offers program z, which is complete
freeware. Then the OP will have a selection of programs and the
downsides of each listed neatly in a thread.
In other words, consider the mention of a less than freeware program a
starting point; not for a lengthy debate, but for alternatives. Almost
every problem has a freeware solution of some sort. It's just a matter
of working together to find the best solution and to remain silent in
many cases to prevent thread eruption. There is a wealth of knowledge
here, surely this can work.
====================================================
What do you think is healthy for this group right now?
If there are holes in logic, tear it up. If not, move on.
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?
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=
You missplet "invective."
B
Blinky the Shark
As I explained in my first post. As I explained above. As I'll
explain, again: it was close enough.
I'm not tracking you. What does blowing things up have to do with the
authors/distributors of shareware that post announcements for their
products in here?
Huh? I simply voted parallel with another voter's ballot, and quoted
his ballot, saying ditto.
R
Roger Johansson
DAN said:
I seldom quote much from a previous message, but this time I will make
an exception, it saves me the effort of writing it myself.
I agree to 100% with the above. The netkops have no class or culture,
they just jump on people with very heavy artillery as soon as they
feel justified to do so.
Their first action is not to explain or politely ask for another
behavior, no, their first action is to file abuse reports to the
offenders ISP, newsserver admins and his employer.
If the "offender" shows up again he may be threatened with physical
violence, in the style of John Corliss.
These netkops have no consideration for other people's peace of mind,
because they have no peace of mind themselves, they have learned to
live with a stressy world and they think others should learn that too.
These busybodies are fighting a crusade, where no means are forbidden,
because the cause is so important, much more important than other
people and their peace of mind, or the atmosphere in a newsgroup.
Netkops are speed freaks, they live to be frenzied, always excited,
always hunting, and they like to get blood on their hands.
They don't mind being involved in an eternal quarrel with others.
It makes them feel they are alive.
They have minds which cannot find rest and peace, so they attack
others in their frenzy, instead of getting to the bottom of their own
problems they want to teach others to be constantly excited too.
They have already made millions of people turn away from usenet
because there is too much rudeness and aggressivity here.
Yes, absolutely. Free speach and a nicer atmosphere is needed.
It's a crusade, by people who have feverish minds.
Their overheated minds make them blind to other people's rights and
feelings, they have a cause to fight for and that is more important
than everything else.
They don't know what a free society means.
"Fundamentalists" and "excited" are exactly the words I would use too.
"Top posting is not allowed in this newsgroup, Thank you."
(Boomer style patronizing comment)
The netkops have no consideration for atmosphere, probably because
they have no peace in their own lives. They are feverishly running
back and forth, not realizing that they are the ones who should learn
something, they always think they are in this world to teach others.
I have seen several discussions here by people looking for solutions
to their problems, and many times I have thought that they obviously
have not visited www.ghisler.com (nagware), if they had done that they
would not have to search for less useful solutions.
But, of course, it is not allowed to mention that url, so what can I
do, but to see them search and search for really "pure" freeware.
For adding comments about each file, for example, which become visible
as tool tip style comment when hovering the cursor for 0.2 seconds on
the file. Stored in descript.ion file, comment is moved and copied
with the file.
Intelligent commercial programmers, like mr Ghisler, make their
programs fairly easily accessible, knowing that if millions (and soon,
billions) of users get used to use the program, and are telling others
about it, a certain part of the users will surely pay for it one day
too, to get rid of the nag screen, or to support a programmer who have
helped the users so much without nagging them too much.
Ok I'll vote too. I have changed the number where I wanted too, and
added comments.
For all the categories above the usefulness is the important factor.
How useful and valuable is the program, after you have subtracted the
negative factors from its value.
But I want to add two categories:
Open source freeware: 6 (You can change it freely for your own use.)
Open source public domain freeware: 7
It means you can change it, re-release it, develop it, do whatever you
want with it, so it has a maximal potential for free further
development by its users.
These two extra categories can encourage the users of a program to
learn a little about the programming language it is written in.
You can often change a little without knowing so much about
programming, and it would create a bridge between users and
programmers. More people would learn more about programming in a
natural way, step by step.
S
Susan Bugher
Susan said:
?
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=
Unfortunately, it is not a viable option. People do and will continue
to post about commercial software, and it must at least be ok to post a
warning in reply.
S
Steve H
Ah yes, as long as they agree with you....
T
Tech Zero
The voice of "Susan Bugher" drifted in on the cyber-winds,
from the sea of virtual chaos...
Adware: *
Betaware: 4
CDWare: 2
Commercial Software: 2
Crippleware: *
Demo-ware: *
Donationware: 4
Freeware: 5
Liteware: 3
Malware: 1
Nagware: *
Orphanware/Abandonware: 3
Registerware: 3
Requestware: 4
Shareware: 1
Spyware: 1
Trialware: *
Warez: 1
"*" It's on topic if it's discussed as such. It's still free software,
just not always freeware...
from the sea of virtual chaos...
Adware: *
Betaware: 4
CDWare: 2
Commercial Software: 2
Crippleware: *
Demo-ware: *
Donationware: 4
Freeware: 5
Liteware: 3
Malware: 1
Nagware: *
Orphanware/Abandonware: 3
Registerware: 3
Requestware: 4
Shareware: 1
Spyware: 1
Trialware: *
Warez: 1
"*" It's on topic if it's discussed as such. It's still free software,
just not always freeware...
A
Alastair Smeaton
I find this common sense stuff very interesting - now if anyone can
tell me....
What is the opposite of "the lunatics taking over the asylum" ;-)
I must admit though, that while there are, in my opinion, only one or
two who are "over zealous" the majority of posters will point out
where a recommendation is adware, spyware etc.
In general, this group gets it right - but sometime IMO goes over the
top
A
Alastair Smeaton
Thanks Susan
Nice to have the opportunity to see if there is a consensus
PS - one further category to propose ??
Dialogueware my vote - 5
although don't personally like the software, but happy with the status
of it
R
Roger Johansson
Steve H said:
This is not about what views people have, most of us have more or less
different views anyway, it is about what means people use to enforce
their views, and I have never reported anybody to any authority at
all. I use nicer ways to fight for my ideals. I have never threatened
anybody either, by the way.
We need to lower the level of aggression and rudeness in usenet. Think
about all the nice people and children who are coming in here, get
scared or do not like the atmosphere and turn away again.
This is a global medium for all ages and all kinds of people.
Please avoid foul language, threats, and too much discussions about
principles, like what the definition of really pure freeware really
is.
We already know that there are many categories which are more or less
freeware according to one or another definition.
Too much bandwidth and time is wasted on these discussions, and they
destroy the atmosphere.
Unfortunately some people have nothing against a constant bickering
and have strong convictions they think it is very important to defend.
Strong convictions, a strong need to defend some ideals, and readiness
for violence is what terrorists are made of.
Easy-going and nice people avoid those heavy and concentrated minds
because they are no fun to be with.
Unfortunately this means that the heavy minded people often think that
they are in the majority, because in their favorite places they often
are the ones who are heard and seen more than others.
They get involved in fights and quarrels all the time.
They have nothing better to do with their lives, obviously.
?
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Omar=A9?=
S
Steve H
We've seen your blurb before - and to be frank it's extremely
tiresome.
Sure, you write lots of words - but that doesn't mean you actually say
anything... and there's always that degeneration into poppycock about
violence.
What's worse though is the contradictions you merrily toss about - and
then complain when people pick you up on them.
Here's one you wrote just now...
You should think on that for a while.
S
stan
Adware:1
Betaware:3
CDWare:2
Commercial Software:2
Crippleware:3
Demo-ware:2
Donationware:5
Freeware:5
Liteware:5
Malware:1
Nagware:3
Orphanware/Abandonware:4
Registerware:4
Requestware:4
Shareware:1
Spyware:1
Trialware:1
Warez:1
D
digitalMOSQUITO
Susan said:
Adware: 3
Betaware: 3
CDWare: 3
Commercial Software: 0
Crippleware: 0
Demo-ware: 0
Donationware: 4
Freeware: 5
Liteware: 3
Malware: 0
Nagware: 0
Orphanware/Abandonware: 3
Registerware: 2
Requestware: ?
Shareware: 0
Spyware: 0
Trialware: 0
Warez: 0
dM
D
Dewey Edwards
?
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=
Sure. Please avoid comparing posters here to terrorists.
What do you have against discussion of principles? I did read the
stuff I snipped, but all I gleaned from it was that you imagine that
people who are interested in principles are not as nice as you are.
How nice of you to say so.