Vuescan 8.2.24, what's new: "Significantly improved infrared cleaning "?

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

2) Your opinion about its reliability differs from the experience of many,

Neil,

You should have followed this bugger long enough to know that he's a
troll and that he isn't here to discuss anything. He goes on and on like
a broken record and you're only giving him the attention he's feeding
on.

Simply put him in your killfile and help us make this newsgroup the
friendly place it used to be. Thank you.

Ralf

P.S.: I would have preferred to send you this as an email but it appears
you're using a faked address.

 

[Neil Gould]

Neil,

You should have followed this bugger long enough to know that he's a
troll and that he isn't here to discuss anything. He goes on and on
like a broken record and you're only giving him the attention he's
feeding on.

I understand your perspective, but wouldn't go so far as to say that Don
is a troll. His perspective toward Vuescan is a bit puzzling and annoying,
to be sure. If nothing occasionally counters misinformation and hyperbole,
it may be mistaken for fact by some innocent inquirer.

Simply put him in your killfile and help us make this newsgroup the
friendly place it used to be. Thank you.

I don't do killfiles...no one is always wrong about everything. ;-)

I found Don's exchange with Kennedy McEwen (Minolta 5400 or Coolscan V) to
be enlightening, and it would have been hard to follow that thread from
reading only Kennedy's posts.

P.S.: I would have preferred to send you this as an email but it
appears you're using a faked address.

Sorry... it's a drastic move to keep spam at manageable levels.

Regards,

 

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

If nothing occasionally counters misinformation and hyperbole,
it may be mistaken for fact by some innocent inquirer.

If noone would reply to his pointless provocation he'd be gone in a
matter of days.

Ralf

 

[Hecate]

Then, of course, it would about the same price as Silverfast - and
guess what? - Silverfast works.

[...]

Yes, I cannot imagine Vuescan's price going up to compete directly
with Lasersoft's application; still, while Silverfast would run with
one scanner for this price, Vuescan would be working with lots of
older and new devices.

I really don't understand why Don and others don't get this point.

It's quite simple - if I was purchasing software, I'd rather purchase
software that works correctly pout of box and is tied to one type of
scanner, than buy software which doesn't work correctly on *any*
scanner.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...

 

[Neil Gould]

It's quite simple - if I was purchasing software, I'd rather purchase
software that works correctly pout of box and is tied to one type of
scanner, than buy software which doesn't work correctly on *any*
scanner.

So... I take it you've found scanning software without bugs? I've not seen
such an application in over 20 years of scanning, so perhaps that has
shaped my expectations differently. ;-)

Regards,

 

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

I found Don's exchange with Kennedy McEwen (Minolta 5400 or Coolscan V) to
be enlightening...

Just think of all the far more enlightening exchanges you're missing
because these idiots have driven dozens of valuable contributors out of
this forum.

Ralf

 

[Neil Gould]

Just think of all the far more enlightening exchanges you're missing
because these idiots have driven dozens of valuable contributors out
of this forum.

Then, I suppose the question becomes how to best reclaim the territory?
Running off doesn't work. Ignoring the irritating posts doesn't work.
What's left other than confronting misinformation and raising the issue
within the forum?

Neil

 

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

Ignoring the irritating posts doesn't work.

Sure does. Trolls go away if noone feeds them.

Keep responding to them and you become part of the problem.

Ralf

 

[Don]

1) Even though I'd call "the avalanche of... bugs" hyperbole, the bottom
line is that the bugs don't affect everyone's usage.

But they do! The vast portion of (recurring) Vuescan bugs affect all
users. When Vuescan just stops scanning, or gets "double vision" or
the cropping stops working, etc. it affects everyone. (For "avalanche"
see appendix...)

Occasionally, there is also a scanner specific bug (the *2-year*
Minolta saga comes to mind) but the overwhelming number of Vuescan
bugs are indiscriminate and, perhaps even more importantly, recurring!

2) Your opinion about its reliability differs from the experience of many,
including myself. I don't find that it fails any more often than
Silverfast or ScanWizard Pro with my scanners.

First of all, it's not an opinion but fact. As I keep repeating:
Please check the archives! I've been in the software business longer
than I care to remember but I have never seen a program this buggy and
exhibiting such amateur incompetence.

Again: Please check the archives! I'm not talking about some casual
bug, but about really *elementary* bugs which any other software irons
out before the program is even released. Vuescan is in major version
8! To add insult to injury, Vuescan then has a habit of bringing the
same bugs back, over and over again. Please check the archives!

Your opinion on this differs from many others, so perhaps a grain or two
of salt is appropriate. Such a global statement only exposes your bias,
Don.

There is neither opinion nor bias, Neil, just fact. Note: It is the
*Vuescan users* themselves who post unending, repeated and specific
reports of (often same) bugs over and over again. How can simply
referring to that indisputable fact be either opinion or bias!?

Here... I checked the archives for you, and that's only the tip of the
iceberg!!! If you actually do even a semi-thorough search - as I keep
suggesting - you'll come up with many, many, many, many... more!

You may actually like and be happy with Vuescan, and to that I say:
Great! All the power to you! But to jump from that personal feeling to
denying that Vuescan is a totally unreliable piece of... software ;o)
hopelessly riddled with bugs is just *factually* incorrect.

Don.

--- arbitrary start ---

I had a similarly negative experience with VueScan:
I tried VueScan with the Minolta Dimage Scan MultiPRO and found it
unusable because of severe banding problems.


Unfortunately, to date VueScan is not capable of scanning the Raw data
with a linear gamma...

Yes that'll be one of the effects the VueScan D-max bug will cause.

But: being a novice in the
trade I could not determine for myself that what was claimed: Vuescan
supports Minolta Scan Dual IV, wasn't true.


Tried that. It doesn't help.
I tried all the avenues that Vuescan allowed and no combination of features
provided a good scan. Your suggestion even made things worse.

So this bug has survived through two subsequent versions to 8.1.13,
rendering Vuescan more-or-less useless, if you use scan-from-disk
workflow.

ICE manages to clean my problematic slides very well, doing a much more
complete job, and much more "seamlessly". Vuescan leaves so much, and
leaves obviously softened areas.

I'm really getting tired of even
trying new releases, it's a time consuming waste of time.

Somewhere around recent version .20 "something bad happened" to Vuescan
speed. Since then, several new version descriptions have promised
greatly improved speed etc. Atleast as of .23, my personal experience
is it's still very pokey.

About a couple of weeks ago I bought Vuescan to use with my brand new
Minolta. I was worried about reports of lines but was told that has
been fixed. IT HASN'T!! The damn lines are everywhere! Vuescan is total
CRAP! I wrote two emails but got no reply and I'm really fed up and
pissed off! I WANT MY MONEY BACK! What a ripoff! It's Vue-SCAM! That's
what it is!

I'm using VueScan with Canon FS4000US over SCSI connection. Just
upgraded from 8.1.32 to 8.1.36 and noticed a problem with "Preview"
command. In version 36 it takes forever, compared to version 32.
Apparently, version 36 does preview at full resolution (4000dpi) even
though the "Input | Preview resolution" is manually set to mere 500dpi.

I just updated to 8.2.03, and I'm getting "double" images side by side
of the SAME scans in the preview OR scan window..

Eddie Wiseman

...After I disabled batch mode and pressed
'Scan', VueScan went on to scanning all six frames in batch mode,
despite that fact that I explicitly asked it to scan only one frame.

What's going on with VueScan? Apparently, nobody is even trying to do
even the most basic testing of the new version before the release.

So it looks like a serious bug with the cropping system, as you suggest. Don
will say "told you so" -well, he did! Stick to your working version.
Upgrade at your peril!

--- no end... ---

 

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

Yes, I cannot imagine Vuescan's price going up to compete directly
with Lasersoft's application...

The really funny thing here is that the price of Silverfast has nothing
to do with ICE and related licensing fees.

Silverfast is nothing but a fancy front-end for the same old TWAIN (or
MAID) drivers provided by the scanner manufacturers.

These plug-ins include the ICE code and it's the manufacturers who pay
for it - not Lasersoft.

In those rare instances where they don't use the original plug-ins (e.g.
older Nikon SCSI-scanners under OS X) ICE has magically disappeared.

Ed Hamrick, OTOH, woud have to license ICE because he uses his own
driver code.

Ralf

 

[Daniel]

I use outlook express as my news reader, how do I put someone into
killfile?

thanks

Daniel

 

[Neil Gould]

I use outlook express as my news reader, how do I put someone into
killfile?

You can find those options under "Message Rules > News"

Regards,

Neil

 

[Hecate]

So... I take it you've found scanning software without bugs? I've not seen
such an application in over 20 years of scanning, so perhaps that has
shaped my expectations differently. ;-)

No, I've found scanning software which works. I doubt there is any
software that doesn't have some bugs. However, it's the ratio of
bugs/problems in a piece of software that determines it's reliability.
Vuescan just isn't reliable. One bug is fixed and another two appear.
If you complain about the bugs you get an abusive email back. If you
paid for the software and it doesn't do the job (i.e. isn't fit for
the purpose as under UK law - and I'm sure there must be similar laws
in the US) then you get even more abusive email back when you try and
claim the purchase price. And no, a "free" download where one of the
most important parts of the software is di8abled (i.e. IR cleaning)
isn't a fair test. Of course, the reason he disables that particular
part of the program is because it doesn't work very well anyway.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...

 

[Neil Gould]

No, I've found scanning software which works. I doubt there is any
software that doesn't have some bugs. However, it's the ratio of
bugs/problems in a piece of software that determines it's reliability.

OK. So, for some, that ratio is adequate, and for others it may not be.
Somehow, that news just doesn't make headlines.

Vuescan just isn't reliable.

Well, IMO such a global statement needs qualifiers. Perhaps it isn't
reliable with your scanner, or for your usage. Others have very different
experiences, which implies that it is adequate for their usage and/or with
their scanner. Point is, it's the user that makes the difference here.

If better 3rd party software exists for your scanner, then that says more
about the scanner you bought than about any particular piece of software.
For many (if not most), Vuescan will be the best application they can buy
for their scanner.

And no, a "free" download where one of the
most important parts of the software is di8abled (i.e. IR cleaning)
isn't a fair test. Of course, the reason he disables that particular
part of the program is because it doesn't work very well anyway.

Well, there you are. It only makes sense that one would buy the feature
set that they require. You want good IR cleaning, you have to pay for
software that offers it. That said, I don't think that IR cleaning is the
only identifier of good software. If the image suffers, IR cleaning won't
save it.

As with any reasonable piece of software, there will be good and
not-so-good things to be said about it. There are several aspects of
Silverfast Ai that drive me up a wall, but you won't find me ranting
endlessly about those things. I'll just use it for its good aspects, and
use other software to work past its not-so-good aspects. Same as for
Vuescan.

Regards,

Neil

 

[Don]

Well, IMO such a global statement needs qualifiers.

I've provided you with quite a list in my reply!

In case that message didn't get through, here it is again...

Don.


--- arbitrary start ---

I had a similarly negative experience with VueScan:
I tried VueScan with the Minolta Dimage Scan MultiPRO and found it
unusable because of severe banding problems.


Unfortunately, to date VueScan is not capable of scanning the Raw data
with a linear gamma...

Yes that'll be one of the effects the VueScan D-max bug will cause.

But: being a novice in the
trade I could not determine for myself that what was claimed: Vuescan
supports Minolta Scan Dual IV, wasn't true.


Tried that. It doesn't help.
I tried all the avenues that Vuescan allowed and no combination of features
provided a good scan. Your suggestion even made things worse.

So this bug has survived through two subsequent versions to 8.1.13,
rendering Vuescan more-or-less useless, if you use scan-from-disk
workflow.

ICE manages to clean my problematic slides very well, doing a much more
complete job, and much more "seamlessly". Vuescan leaves so much, and
leaves obviously softened areas.

I'm really getting tired of even
trying new releases, it's a time consuming waste of time.

Somewhere around recent version .20 "something bad happened" to Vuescan
speed. Since then, several new version descriptions have promised
greatly improved speed etc. Atleast as of .23, my personal experience
is it's still very pokey.

About a couple of weeks ago I bought Vuescan to use with my brand new
Minolta. I was worried about reports of lines but was told that has
been fixed. IT HASN'T!! The damn lines are everywhere! Vuescan is total
CRAP! I wrote two emails but got no reply and I'm really fed up and
pissed off! I WANT MY MONEY BACK! What a ripoff! It's Vue-SCAM! That's
what it is!

I'm using VueScan with Canon FS4000US over SCSI connection. Just
upgraded from 8.1.32 to 8.1.36 and noticed a problem with "Preview"
command. In version 36 it takes forever, compared to version 32.
Apparently, version 36 does preview at full resolution (4000dpi) even
though the "Input | Preview resolution" is manually set to mere 500dpi.

I just updated to 8.2.03, and I'm getting "double" images side by side
of the SAME scans in the preview OR scan window..

Eddie Wiseman

...After I disabled batch mode and pressed
'Scan', VueScan went on to scanning all six frames in batch mode,
despite that fact that I explicitly asked it to scan only one frame.

What's going on with VueScan? Apparently, nobody is even trying to do
even the most basic testing of the new version before the release.

So it looks like a serious bug with the cropping system, as you suggest. Don
will say "told you so" -well, he did! Stick to your working version.
Upgrade at your peril!

--- no end... ---

 

[Roger S.]

This thread is somewhere between not helpful and pointless and
degenerating with every passing day. Who spends their free time
compiling bug reports from newsgroups about a piece of software they
don't use? The only other people I can think of are Mac fans taking
joy in the problems with Windows. Of course that doesn't help the
Windows users any.

 

[Hecate]

OK. So, for some, that ratio is adequate, and for others it may not be.
Somehow, that news just doesn't make headlines.

Well, IMO such a global statement needs qualifiers. Perhaps it isn't
reliable with your scanner, or for your usage. Others have very different
experiences, which implies that it is adequate for their usage and/or with
their scanner. Point is, it's the user that makes the difference here.

OK. Vuescan isn't reliable enough for professional use. I.e. when you
require repeatable results.

If better 3rd party software exists for your scanner, then that says more
about the scanner you bought than about any particular piece of software.
For many (if not most), Vuescan will be the best application they can buy
for their scanner.

Actually, I don't use 3rd party software. Whilst I know people who do
use Silverfast, I've always been able to get the results I want
through the software that came with the scanner. Of course, it took a
little time to get the results I wanted, but now I get repeatable
results.

Well, there you are. It only makes sense that one would buy the feature
set that they require. You want good IR cleaning, you have to pay for
software that offers it. That said, I don't think that IR cleaning is the
only identifier of good software. If the image suffers, IR cleaning won't
save it.

However, ICE works out of the box.

As with any reasonable piece of software, there will be good and
not-so-good things to be said about it. There are several aspects of
Silverfast Ai that drive me up a wall, but you won't find me ranting
endlessly about those things. I'll just use it for its good aspects, and
use other software to work past its not-so-good aspects. Same as for
Vuescan.

Whereas I just don't have the time to waste correcting Vuescan all the
time.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...

 

[Hecate]

This thread is somewhere between not helpful and pointless and
degenerating with every passing day. Who spends their free time
compiling bug reports from newsgroups about a piece of software they
don't use? The only other people I can think of are Mac fans taking
joy in the problems with Windows. Of course that doesn't help the
Windows users any.

Generally it results from people claiming that X is the best of
software ever made whilst others know different and are prepared to
point out the flaws so that people who don't know the software, and
are asking for advice, get to see both sides of the story. Rather than
the one-sided view presented by supporters of said software.

--

Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...

 

[Evo2Me]

Generally it results from people claiming that X is the best of
software ever made whilst others know different and are prepared to
point out the flaws so that people who don't know the software, and
are asking for advice, get to see both sides of the story. Rather than
the one-sided view presented by supporters of said software.

Generally it follows the pattern:
- "I need help"
- someone tries to help
- some dork comes in bashing around (in this group mostly on Vuescan)
- another one chimes in to point out the general " unusability"
(surely without giving any specifics)
- then someone tries to give perspective to all this ("for some it
doesn't work, most others have no problem")
- thread degenerates rapidly.

 

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

Generally it follows the pattern:
- "I need help"
- someone tries to help
- some dork comes in bashing around (in this group mostly on Vuescan)
- another one chimes in to point out the general " unusability"

If people people whould stop feeding the two resident troublemakers this
group could at last return to its normal business.

Could be so easy...

Ralf