Vista Upgrade Coupon clarified

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mark
  • Start date Start date
William said:
How would Microsoft know that you have installed on another computer the
XP disk that you qualified in an install of Vista?
Click to expand...

Might be possible to link the two activation codes thereby preventing the
activation of the XP version once the Vista upgrade replacement is
activated.

In my case it wouldn't matter if MS knew because I would know that I am
running things illegally which is something I am not prepared to do. I sure
wish more people would take the honest and moral high road on things like
this so features like WGA and WGA N weren't necessary.
 
They do indeed want folks to upgrade to Vista but they also don't expect you
to do if software or devices critical to your computing needs don't yet work
in Vista.

Keep in mind that another option is to buy a full edition of Vista and run
your XP in a virtual machine using VPC 2007 on Vista. It is preferable to
dual booting if you can do it because dual booting with Vista and XP causes
problems for Vista. The best known example of that is that you will lose
your Vista System Restore Points (and some other files generated by the
Vista Volume Shadowcopy Services driver) everytime you boot into XP. It
doesn't change the licensing equation but it can be a useful way to retain
use of some XP software until the vendors all get caught up with Vista.
 
I stand corrected. He was. In several recent posts by Chad that made the
same statement, there was NO denial of this assertion, so I incorrectly
assumed that it was still fact. My humble apologies.
 
No reason to apologize, but that is far more more than Chad did when he
made the same assumption.

Mike really has not been specific AFAIK.
But it seemed he suggested he was no longer with Microsoft.
He has moved on, whether to another department in Microsoft or beyond is
really unknown to me.

He no longer uses a Microsoft address, but that really means very little
since posts from Microsoft here were on their own time and generally their
own opinions and not necessarily those of Microsoft.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org
 
Kevin
"I sure wish more people would take the honest..."
But that would make it so easy for those with integrity and costly for those
who do not respect others property.
 
I had remembered him from when he herded us out of the beta x64 group into
the public one, and then he was Andre's nemesis for quite some time.
 
OEM media is usually designed for a clean install. Obviously you are
not entitled to run the qualifying windows XP and the Express Upgrade
Vista at the same time as you are effectively swapping out your OEM XP
for Vista. If you have a second or existing license for another OS on
that same machine then this will depend to a certain degree on what
exactly you are sent as the generic Express Upgrade



From the web site where you redeem you software from the coupon
http://upgradeweb.moduslink.com/vista/
it does state
. The Upgrade Software is available on DVD or CD media. A DVD-ROM or
CD-ROM drive is required to install the Upgrade Software. Upgrade
Software must be installed on your PC with Windows XP preloaded.

this is followed by
. MS highly recommends that End User Customers back up their hard
drive and settings prior to upgrading their PCs. Some upgrades may
require additional installation requirements and instructions. Certain
upgrades may not allow the End User Customer to retain applications,
files and settings as they were in the previous installed edition of
Windows. You may be required to perform a clean install of Windows
Vista and then reinstall your existing files, settings and programs.

This is due to the fact that if you take the Express Upgrade to
certain versions from certain previous versions you have to clean
install
see
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeinfo.mspx

So for your case of XP Pro to Vista Business it look like an inplace
upgrade.
Click to expand...

Mike, are the websites offering XP Pro (Generic OEM) with an upgrade
coupon for Vista in compliance with Microsoft's policies?

As a corollary to that, is Microsoft going to offer a Generic OEM of
Vista (without the purchase of an entirely new computer) at a reduced
price, as they did with XP?

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread and newsgroup
---------------------------------------------------
 
They do indeed want folks to upgrade to Vista but they also don't expect you
to do if software or devices critical to your computing needs don't yet work
in Vista.

Keep in mind that another option is to buy a full edition of Vista and run
your XP in a virtual machine using VPC 2007 on Vista. It is preferable to
dual booting if you can do it because dual booting with Vista and XP causes
problems for Vista. The best known example of that is that you will lose
your Vista System Restore Points (and some other files generated by the
Vista Volume Shadowcopy Services driver) everytime you boot into XP. It
doesn't change the licensing equation but it can be a useful way to retain
use of some XP software until the vendors all get caught up with Vista.
Click to expand...

It would be almost as cheap to purchase an OS-level membership in MSDN
as it would be to buy a single stand-alone copy of Vista Ultimate.
Then one would be able to use either OS, or a combination of BOTH, on
a single machine for the same price.

Let's see:
$499 for the Retail version of Vista Ultimate
$299 for the Retail version of XP Professional
===========================
This adds up to: $798 (plus tax in many states).

So I stand corrected: ACTUALLY, it would be a $100 CHEAPER to buy an
OS-level membership in MSDN ($98 for sticklers -- either way, a
"C-note" would be blasted away if you bought them separately, for all
intents and purposes.)

Microsoft is REALLY going to rake in the dough from us users this time
around...

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread and newsgroup
---------------------------------------------------
 
Donald L McDaniel said:
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:10:08 -0000, "Mike Brannigan"

Mike, are the websites offering XP Pro (Generic OEM) with an upgrade
coupon for Vista in compliance with Microsoft's policies?

As a corollary to that, is Microsoft going to offer a Generic OEM of
Vista (without the purchase of an entirely new computer) at a
reduced
price, as they did with XP?

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread and newsgroup
---------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...


OEM Media to the general public from a distributor - is/was a huge
issue.

In the distant past OEM media was supposed to only be available to OEM
to pre install the then ship with a PC.
There were various issues and a few court cases which resulted in the
sale of OEM media with qualifying hardware.
The old court cases allowed this to be "any piece of hardware required
for the operation of a PC" so this was usually taken to be a major
hardware components such as a mother board, CPU or hard disk etc.
This went on and then more action and it became obvious that a $2
power cord was a required component so that was allowed and then it
escalated to effectively being the position of a screw and in Germany
the courts just demanded that the OEM media be allowed for sale to the
general public with no hardware (issues with bundling and tying etc)
so the position today is a lot of distributors will sell OEM media to
the general public, some still require you buy a major piece of
hardware , many allow a minor piece that you chose to not even receive
etc.
So the upshot is that OEM media effectively arrives in the hands of
end users directly and not via a system builder or OEM.
Hence the interesting issues with the Express Upgrade coupons which
are supposed to be supplied by your OEM with the appropriate
serialization code on them etc but since you are the OEM as you
purchased the media directly you can see the odd person post here
trying to get through the web site without a receipt for the PC as
there isn't one as this is just a media/license and coupon purchase
etc. I believe the last poster I saw succeeded in the end

So in short the sale of OEM media with the coupon is as far as I am
aware, OK, the interesting part comes when end users begin to try and
go through the web site to claim this Express Upgrade without the
coupon actually coming from an OEM.

Until the general availability date I doubt you will see OEM Vista
DVDs for sale, post GA, I honestly don't know but at a wild guess I
can see no reason or way it could be stopped anymore then OEM sale of
XP could be stopped now.
 
Might be possible to link the two activation codes thereby preventing the
activation of the XP version once the Vista upgrade replacement is
activated.

In my case it wouldn't matter if MS knew because I would know that I am
running things illegally
Click to expand...

The term "illegally" does not apply here, William, since there is no
"law of the land" which applies specifically to Microsoft's
"interpretation" of "shrink-wrap licensing agreements".

Such licenses are STILL being challenged strongly in many
jurisdictions, and have actually been overturned in some.

The legality of "shrink-wrap licenses" has YET to be established by
the U.S. Supreme court.

In addition, in the EU, such licenses are NOT LEGAL themselves, since
they VIOLATE the users' "Fair Use" rights. Which is EXACTLY why
Microsoft has NEVER in its entire history attempted to bring anyone to
court for breaking their OS EULAs. Their chances of LOSING in such a
court battle OUTWEIGH any monetary gains they might gain from such a
battle.
which is something I am not prepared to do. I sure
wish more people would take the honest and moral high road on things like
this so features like WGA and WGA N weren't necessary.
Click to expand...

I wish Microsoft and Friends would STOP trying to establish Law. The
establishment of law is up to the People, then to their elected
representatives, as well as the Judicial branch of Government, and
ultimately to the Supreme Court (at least here in the United States).

"Shrink Wrap licenses" have NOT BEEN established by the Judiciary in
the US.

If the Congress were to MAKE such laws, those laws would HAVE to be
upheld by the Supreme Court. And they HAVE NOT.

The fact is, "shrink-wrap licenses" VIOLATE the users' "Fair Use
rights". PERIOD...

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread and newsgroup
---------------------------------------------------
 
OEM Media to the general public from a distributor - is/was a huge
issue.

In the distant past OEM media was supposed to only be available to OEM
to pre install the then ship with a PC.
There were various issues and a few court cases which resulted in the
sale of OEM media with qualifying hardware.
The old court cases allowed this to be "any piece of hardware required
for the operation of a PC" so this was usually taken to be a major
hardware components such as a mother board, CPU or hard disk etc.
This went on and then more action and it became obvious that a $2
power cord was a required component so that was allowed and then it
escalated to effectively being the position of a screw and in Germany
the courts just demanded that the OEM media be allowed for sale to the
general public with no hardware (issues with bundling and tying etc)
so the position today is a lot of distributors will sell OEM media to
the general public, some still require you buy a major piece of
hardware , many allow a minor piece that you chose to not even receive
etc.
So the upshot is that OEM media effectively arrives in the hands of
end users directly and not via a system builder or OEM.
Hence the interesting issues with the Express Upgrade coupons which
are supposed to be supplied by your OEM with the appropriate
serialization code on them etc but since you are the OEM as you
purchased the media directly you can see the odd person post here
trying to get through the web site without a receipt for the PC as
there isn't one as this is just a media/license and coupon purchase
etc. I believe the last poster I saw succeeded in the end

So in short the sale of OEM media with the coupon is as far as I am
aware, OK, the interesting part comes when end users begin to try and
go through the web site to claim this Express Upgrade without the
coupon actually coming from an OEM.

Until the general availability date I doubt you will see OEM Vista
DVDs for sale, post GA, I honestly don't know but at a wild guess I
can see no reason or way it could be stopped anymore then OEM sale of
XP could be stopped now.
Click to expand...

Actually, I always purchased XP Professional OEM when I built a new
machine. I really didn't need all the advanced features of XP
professional. But the Generic OEM versions were so much cheaper (I
live on a small stipend from the government), I purchased at least 2
such copies from reputable dealers such as Amazon.com

However, it seems like Microsoft has planned its versions much better
this time around.

Vista Home Premium adds Media Center, and many of the features of XP
Professional, and the VHP Retail Upgrade edition is only $159 (only a
few dollars more than XP Pro w/SP2 Generic OEM), with the added bonus
of being able to transfer the license to a new machine down the line,
should I need to, thus cutting out the expense of purchasing a
different OEM copy for each new machine.

It certainly looks like Microsoft has planned well in giving its
customers alternatives to OEM versions. Which is certainly a good
thing, since we don't have to bother with the legal fictions of buying
a $.50 power cord to buy an OEM copy, and we get a license we can move
if we have to, unlike OEM licenses.

This is a very good value for people like me. Actually it is a very
good value for MOST home users, including hobbyists and gamers.

Maybe Microsoft is actually listening to its users for a change.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread and newsgroup
---------------------------------------------------
 
It would be almost as cheap to purchase an OS-level membership in MSDN
as it would be to buy a single stand-alone copy of Vista Ultimate.
Then one would be able to use either OS, or a combination of BOTH, on
a single machine for the same price.

Let's see:
$499 for the Retail version of Vista Ultimate
$299 for the Retail version of XP Professional
===========================
This adds up to: $798 (plus tax in many states).
Click to expand...

I must correct myself here: Actually a full Retail version of Vista
Ultimate is $399, NOT $499 as I erroneously state above.

Subtract my error of $100
This adds up to $698.

While there would be no price advantage in purchasing an OS-Level MSDN
membership rather than standalone copies of both XP Pro and Vista
Ultimate, there would STILL be an advantage in purchasing an OS-Level
MSDN membership, since all the perks which come with an MSDN
membership accompany it.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread and newsgroup
---------------------------------------------------
 
I have a full MSDN subscription so I don't know how the OS Level works. My
subscription allows me activation of Vista on ten machines (reinstallations
on the same machines are not counted). I get ten more per edition of XP
(Home, Home N, Pro, Pro N, etc). Theb there are the Servers (a bunch). If
the OS Level grants anything like that number of activations then it would
be a bargain indeed. The only catch is that the MSDN licenses are only for
use in development, testing, training, and demostrating. They specifically
exclude personal uses and production uses. If it wasn't for that, I would
be recommending to everyone that they sign up for MSDN.
 
It isn't a good deal for hobbyists/professionals.

Look at what versions include remote desktop (terminal services) and then
say that. It's a feature I frequently use and the only versions of Vista
that include it are Business and Ultimate, considering the extortionate
pricing of Ultimate i'm going to have to go with Business. (Don't say VNC
btw, it may be useful for normal stuff but over low bandwidth connections
remote desktop/terminal services absolutely destroys it)

I suspect a lot of the hobbyists will end up going the route of either
business or ultimate.

Is there going to be oem versions of Vista you can buy? Reading the other
replies that area seems a bit vague.

MS would be shooting themselves in the foot if they closed off the oem
avenue, I know a lot of people who simply will simply not pay for the retail
version but instead opt for the piece of hardware + oem windows. If MS get
rid of the oem windows option, they users will simply pirate it. (yarr)


Mark
 
Mike said:
If you are talking about me - then I have never claimed this in any of
my recent posts.
Click to expand...

Translation:
"I would rather talk only of what "I don't claim recently" instead of
put any point across clearly to other posters."
 
That looks more like a mistranslation.
Read John & Mikes post again.
Mike does not claim to be working for Microsoft.
And it is really irrelevant to the discussion in this thread anyways.
 
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