Vista reference in Newsweek's article

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Octavio

In the current article published by Newsweek in the MSN Explorer's
Technology section called "Microsoft After Gates (And Bill After
Microsoft)", one of the sentences in the article says (in part) that Vista
is a disaster and that it is having performance failings.

What people are saying about Vista? Do they agree with Newsweek's verdict?
 
Don't believe everything negative you read.
Windows Vista, especially with SP1, is an
excellent operating system with nice performance.
Microsoft has sold over 150 million editions
of Windows Vista to very satisfied customers.

If you are considering upgrading to Windows Vista,
then see the following:

Download and run the Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradeadvisor.mspx

You should visit the support web site of the manufacturer of
your current software and see if they are supported in Vista.
There may be new software updates available or new versions.

As far as software compatibility, please see:

Windows Vista AppReadiness: http://www.appreadiness.com/default.aspx


--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience -
Windows Vista Enthusiast

---------------------------------------------------------------

:

In the current article published by Newsweek in the MSN Explorer's
Technology section called "Microsoft After Gates (And Bill After
Microsoft)", one of the sentences in the article says (in part) that Vista
is a disaster and that it is having performance failings.

What people are saying about Vista? Do they agree with Newsweek's verdict?
 
Calling Vista a "disaster" is journalistic hyperbole.

The fact is that Vista is a more complicated OS than XP because Vista does
more. The learning curve for Vista is steeper than for XP and, initially,
more time has to be spent in learning Vista.

But MS is also to blame for the bad reviews on Vista. They had released
Vista before getting out many unnecessary bugs. Using the consumer as a beta
test group has been going on in the software industry since the early 1980's.
The competition is fierce in the computer and software industry and companies
will release beta stage products in order to beat out the competition. I have
worked in engineering and sales/marketing departments in the microprocessor
industry and there is always a push to get the product out the door to beat
the competition. (This is true in many industries such as the auto industry
where recalls are common.) Then the company relies on service (IT) and the
engineering department to provide proper support to customers who are having
problems with the early software release. This is why I never purchase the
early release of a new software package or OS. Early releases will always
have bugs in it, and the consumer is a beta test group.

Overall, I find Vista to be faster than XP. But I had purchased a computer
that was designed to run with Vista.

oscar
 
oscar said:
Calling Vista a "disaster" is journalistic hyperbole.

The fact is that Vista is a more complicated OS than XP because Vista does
more. The learning curve for Vista is steeper than for XP and, initially,
more time has to be spent in learning Vista.

The operating system is supposed to be transparent to the user. The whole
purpose behind the developement of Windows was to provide a Point & Click
interface with the installed productivity software. There shouldn't be a
learning curve. And, change for the sake of change, is just pure meanness.
 
Windows Vista, especially with SP1, is an
excellent operating system with nice performance.


Well, as long as you don't need to copy files.
Microsoft has sold over 150 million editions
of Windows Vista to very satisfied customers.

Yes. Customers like Dell and Toshiba.
 
Finally! Someone who gets the point as regards the OS. Many users of this
group seem to feel that Vista is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and
the legions of software packages that won't run properly under Vista are the
culprits.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If an OS won't run the programs
I want to use, it's of no earthly use to me. Vista apologists seem to feel
that programs should be designed to support the OS, instead of the other way
around.

Buddha
 
Vista apologists seem to feel that programs should be designed to support
the OS, instead of the other way around.

Wonderful! I can see that you don't know much about computing. Ever since
the concept of an operating system was invented, programs have been written
to run on a particular operating system, NOT the other way round.

The OS looks after all the hard work of interfacing with the hardware, and
hides it behind a common library of routines. This means that a program
(let's say, like Word) will run on Dell hardware, IBM hardware, or anything
else that runs Windows. And that hardware might have two, one or no hard
disks, any amount of RAM, vastly different graphics hardware, etc. It
doesn't matter, because the operating system hides all that complication
from the application.

Note that essential phrase: "a common library of routines". Instead of
writing a word processor to target all the different hardware out there,
which would be almost impossible and vastly wasteful of effort, the program
targets a particular operating system instead.

Yes, that's right: the OS necessarily sets the Application Programming
Interface, and applications must be written to comply with that. This is
the rule across the whole computing industry and every type of operating
system.

So no, it is NOT the job of Vista to be compatible with every half-baked
piece of crap software out there. It is the job of the application
programmers to write programs which fully comply with the OS they claim to
target.

XP let programmers get away with breaking various rules. One side effect of
that is that XP is inherently insecure. Vista is much stricter, which is
good for security but prevents some badly written software from running.

One last thing: the rules Vista implements are the same as those for XP. In
other words, if a program was PROPERLY written for XP it will run perfectly
under Vista. If it doesn't run under Vista then IT IS BADLY WRITTEN.

SteveT
 
I prefer Vista to XP. The only NOTICEABLE difference in performance is when
doing large file copies, especially across networks, where Vista is still
much slower than XP.

Benchmarks show Vista to be slightly slower than XP in general, but I can
honestly say you wouldn't notice it in general use.

SteveT
 
        Well, as long as you don't need to copy files.  


        Yes.  Customers like Dell and Toshiba.

You can make numbers show whatever you want. If the 150 million number
is correct, and it is also correct most copies of Vista come
PREINSTALLED (that is true) so buyers have little choice consider the
following. According to the World Bank in 2002 there were roughly 1
billion personal computers. Since that was several years ago lets
update that number to say now there are probably something like 1.2
billion. If Apple has roughly 6% of the market and Linux and others
have another 2% combined then throw in how many are not used just
sitting idle for one reason or another we end up with roughly
800,000,000 personal computers running one version or another of
Windows. If Microsoft's figures are accurate that means 650,000,000
people HAVE NOT upgraded to Vista. That by any measure is a total
flop. Surprise, that number is close the Microsoft's own 84% have NOT
upgraded. Anyone still wondering WHY Microsoft is racing to get the
next version of Windows out?

http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/number_of_personal_computers
 
fwiw, MS is not racing to get the next version of Windows out. MS announced
years ago that new versions of Windows would be released in a three year
cycle. We are at the mid-point of the three years following the release of
the last version and no doubt we will see Windows 7 beta 1 before many more
months.

Well, as long as you don't need to copy files.


Yes. Customers like Dell and Toshiba.

You can make numbers show whatever you want. If the 150 million number
is correct, and it is also correct most copies of Vista come
PREINSTALLED (that is true) so buyers have little choice consider the
following. According to the World Bank in 2002 there were roughly 1
billion personal computers. Since that was several years ago lets
update that number to say now there are probably something like 1.2
billion. If Apple has roughly 6% of the market and Linux and others
have another 2% combined then throw in how many are not used just
sitting idle for one reason or another we end up with roughly
800,000,000 personal computers running one version or another of
Windows. If Microsoft's figures are accurate that means 650,000,000
people HAVE NOT upgraded to Vista. That by any measure is a total
flop. Surprise, that number is close the Microsoft's own 84% have NOT
upgraded. Anyone still wondering WHY Microsoft is racing to get the
next version of Windows out?

http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/number_of_personal_computers
 
Well, as long as you don't need to copy files.


Yes. Customers like Dell and Toshiba.

You can make numbers show whatever you want. If the 150 million number
is correct, and it is also correct most copies of Vista come
PREINSTALLED (that is true) so buyers have little choice consider the
following. According to the World Bank in 2002 there were roughly 1
billion personal computers. Since that was several years ago lets
update that number to say now there are probably something like 1.2
billion. If Apple has roughly 6% of the market and Linux and others
have another 2% combined then throw in how many are not used just
sitting idle for one reason or another we end up with roughly
800,000,000 personal computers running one version or another of
Windows. If Microsoft's figures are accurate that means 650,000,000
people HAVE NOT upgraded to Vista. That by any measure is a total
flop. Surprise, that number is close the Microsoft's own 84% have NOT
upgraded. Anyone still wondering WHY Microsoft is racing to get the
next version of Windows out?

http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/number_of_personal_computers

What you are not considering, is the fact that many users don't need any of
the new functions in Vista. Why is that a problem? It won't be until some
programs have been written that require Vista functions, that more will
move. I often hear that "Microsoft is racing to get the next Version of
Windows out." Who says?
 
Well, I had pretty well no learning curve at all going from XP to Vista. And
as far as running the programs I want to use, it does - my image editor,
Adobe InDesign, and a few other heavy-duty ones that I can't live without.
Including Office. My P4 system had crapped out on me, after many years of
faithful use, so in March I bought a new Vista Home Premium desktop. No, I
wouldn't have dived in as an early adopter; not my style. But I've had no
problems and am quite happy with Vista and how it's working. Complicated?
Not as far as I'm concerned. I've added a USB hard drive for data backup
(had a RAID system on the XP), made my recovery discs, have Diskeeper
running and also Norton. (Yeah, I know, lots of people don't like that,
either.) My system's happy as a clam.

LesleyO
 
The operating system is tranparent. For example, most users have no idea how
Vista is keeping the OS safe from internet attack. It's all done quietly
under the hood.

All of my 3rd party software programs are running nicely in Vista. One
program has a few problems but the 3rd party developers admit that ti's their
shortcoming and not Vista.

I stand by my statement that Vista is more complicated than XP. Because it
does more. Doesn't mean that Vista is more difficult than XP, there's just
more to learn. For example, Menus have been changed and options are more
powerful such as Search. It's like moving into a new house and you have to
find where the movers put your stuff.

Newsweek's calling Vista a "disaster" is a reflection of poor journalism
more than a reflection of Vista's operating system.

For the record I have 4 XP machines and one Vista machine so I'm not trying
to defend Vista. I think I'm being objective, unlike today's print and TV
news media that need to sell ad space but the internet is taking away their
advertising dollars. So if you wanna sell magazines give them some shocking
news.

For those who constantly come to these forums to bash Vista- you can always
go to Best Buy and pick up an Apple. Or download Linux and be done with it.

oscar
 
The biggest problem I've observed is that too many OEMs sold P/Cs & Laptops
that marginally meet the requirements for Vista.
(And worked quite well with XP.)
 
oscar said:
I stand by my statement that Vista is more complicated than XP. Because it
does more. Doesn't mean that Vista is more difficult than XP, there's just
more to learn. For example, Menus have been changed and options are more
powerful such as Search. It's like moving into a new house and you have to
find where the movers put your stuff.

No, it's more like moving into a new house and the architect telling you how
you have to live from now on, 'cause he "doesn't care what you want. You
can't buy a house with any other system, so get hosed."

Let's go move the furniture around in the blind guys house.
 
Chuck said:
The biggest problem I've observed is that too many OEMs sold P/Cs &
Laptops that marginally meet the requirements for Vista.
(And worked quite well with XP.)

The early XP machines were marginal also. Usually a lack of enough memory.
But back then, memory was expensive.
 
Chuck,

You're right.

A few months ago I met a young couple in Best Buy who were complaining about
Vista being slow. I asked them how much Ram their computer had. Answer: 512
Mb. Yikes! Who would sell a Vista computer with only 512 Mb? I guess Best Buy
did. I spoke with one of the sales guys there and he had no idea what an
adequate amount of RAM would be for Vista.

But as of today, it looks like many of the new Vista computers on the
shelves are coming with 2 GB and 4 GB RAM so the buyers this summer may have
a better experience with Vista than last year's consumers.

oscar
 
oscar said:
Chuck,

You're right.

A few months ago I met a young couple in Best Buy who were complaining
about
Vista being slow. I asked them how much Ram their computer had. Answer:
512
Mb. Yikes! Who would sell a Vista computer with only 512 Mb? I guess Best
Buy
did.

Take a look here for your answers:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/systemrequirements.mspx


Clip from URL above:

Windows Vista minimum supported system requirements

Home Basic / Home Premium / Business / Ultimate

a.. 800 MHz processor and 512 MB of system memory

b.. 20 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of available space

c.. Support for Super VGA graphics

d.. CD-ROM drive




Best Buy and all the other mass retailers that sell computers sell to meet
the minimum requirements. They make money on the "Uprgraded" maodels.
 
Wonderful! I can see that you don't know much about computing. Ever since
the concept of an operating system was invented, programs have been written
to run on a particular operating system, NOT the other way round.

Sure. That's how Java works, right? And Perl, or PHP.

Funny, I seem to remember all KINDS of talk about application
portability but then your mind plays tricks on you after all those years.
Note that essential phrase: "a common library of routines". Instead of
writing a word processor to target all the different hardware out there,
which would be almost impossible and vastly wasteful of effort, the program
targets a particular operating system instead.

Yeah, like Oracle, which targets VMS. And Windows. And Linux.
And AIX. And Solaris. And MacOS. And Z/OS. And... Ok, maybe that's
not such a good example. Look at Apache. It only runs on Linux. And
Windows. And AIX. And Z/OS. And... Well, gee, that's not such a good
example either I guess but it's easy to see that Steve's exactly 100% correct
when he says that programs always target one specific operating system and
it would be impossibly difficult to write something that runs everywhere
especially using a programming environment like Java which only runs on
Solaris. And Linux. And Aix. And Windows. And...

I mean, look, even the TOOLS you use to write progams target a
particular operating system. That's why when I want to compile a C program
on Linux I use gcc, but when I'm on Solaris I use gcc, and when I'm on QNX
I use gcc, and when I'm on HP/UX.... Well, dammit, Steve, I just don't seem
to be able to explain this as well as you do.
 
the said:
Steve Thackery <[email protected]> wrote:

<snipped>

Don't you believe the rat Steve. The Rat is a rat that lies through his
lying rat teeth. Look, if a rat has to put out all of that crap that the
rat did here, then you know the rat is lying. It's just some stuff the
rat read, but the rat has not done any of it.
 
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