F
Frank
Oh? I suggest you study the history of western civilization 101 beforeTedF said:
you bet your life on that statement.
Frank
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you bet your life on that statement.
Frank
K
Kerry Brown
While I have never been to India I have travelled much of the world. Common
sense has nothing to do with wealth, technology, or culture. It has existed
in equal amounts every where I have been. I am quite sure this is true of
India as well. As for general knowledge it is just that, general. Most
Indians have general knowledge that you don't posses just as you have
general knowledge that they don't posses. Much of this general knowledge is
specific to the culture a person exists in. In any case we are not talking
about common sense or general knowledge. We are talking about the specific
knowledge of programming. Can you point me to some study that shows that
Indian programmers are not as good at programming as American programmers.
What about Canadian programmers? I am Canadian and was educated in Canada.
Am I a worse programmer than an American programmer? What about an Indian
programmer that has been educated in the US? I am quite confident that in
India as elsewhere the ratio of good to bad programmers follows the bell
curve. Given that the population is so much larger and there are a lot of
Indian programmers we can extrapolate that there actually must be more good
programmers in India than in the US.
I am done with this thread. You have proved yourself to be a biased,
prejudiced person.
sense has nothing to do with wealth, technology, or culture. It has existed
in equal amounts every where I have been. I am quite sure this is true of
India as well. As for general knowledge it is just that, general. Most
Indians have general knowledge that you don't posses just as you have
general knowledge that they don't posses. Much of this general knowledge is
specific to the culture a person exists in. In any case we are not talking
about common sense or general knowledge. We are talking about the specific
knowledge of programming. Can you point me to some study that shows that
Indian programmers are not as good at programming as American programmers.
What about Canadian programmers? I am Canadian and was educated in Canada.
Am I a worse programmer than an American programmer? What about an Indian
programmer that has been educated in the US? I am quite confident that in
India as elsewhere the ratio of good to bad programmers follows the bell
curve. Given that the population is so much larger and there are a lot of
Indian programmers we can extrapolate that there actually must be more good
programmers in India than in the US.
I am done with this thread. You have proved yourself to be a biased,
prejudiced person.
W
William
Gee, how come that is not that common experience of several million people who are running it. I have a Gateway computer that I bought back in October 2002 and Vista runs just fine on it. Perhaps the 'pile of complicated junk' is your desktop computer. Why don't you crawl back into your little hole of your imaginary play world and let us go about contributing, even if it is a in a small way, to the overall quality of the next generation of Windows Operating System.
Will someone give this person a room for himself and a container of Lincoln Logs.
Vista is nothing but a screwed up XP.
Wasn't impressed at all, it is a pile complicated
junk.
They took XP and tweaked it, moved many things around,
thinking they can fool virus makers and hackers, made
much harder for the user with many popup worthless
security messages.
I bet it will be very hard to clean if it does get infected
with a virus or spyware, twenty times harder than XP.
Unfortunately DELL, HP and all computer companies will
be pushing and pimping the software for Microsoft.
Say no to Vista, stupid if you say yes.
Will someone give this person a room for himself and a container of Lincoln Logs.
Vista is nothing but a screwed up XP.
Wasn't impressed at all, it is a pile complicated
junk.
They took XP and tweaked it, moved many things around,
thinking they can fool virus makers and hackers, made
much harder for the user with many popup worthless
security messages.
I bet it will be very hard to clean if it does get infected
with a virus or spyware, twenty times harder than XP.
Unfortunately DELL, HP and all computer companies will
be pushing and pimping the software for Microsoft.
Say no to Vista, stupid if you say yes.
W
William
Have you considered that the reason for this might be a really crappy driver? Just because people put crap into their computer, that does not make Windows a piece of crap.
I have Dual core Intel with a very new motherboard.
Installation went very smooth, I have no hardware
problems, Using the 32 Bit.
Take it back, it has hard time recognizing my second
Network card network, it did for once then lost it
upon a reboot. XP was just as bad.
I just don't like the software, it is made for the
Geek Squad and computer companies to make money
trouble shooting and fixing it.
I have Dual core Intel with a very new motherboard.
Installation went very smooth, I have no hardware
problems, Using the 32 Bit.
Take it back, it has hard time recognizing my second
Network card network, it did for once then lost it
upon a reboot. XP was just as bad.
I just don't like the software, it is made for the
Geek Squad and computer companies to make money
trouble shooting and fixing it.
W
William
Most Americans and Europeans lack 'Western Knowledge'. So what is your point?
No they are just starting from scratch.
Yes, they lack Western Knowledge.
No they are just starting from scratch.
Yes, they lack Western Knowledge.
W
William
So in your world, the young punks that walk around with their pants hanging down around their knees are bastions of 'Western Knowledge' because they live in the United States, while hard working, intelligent people in India, whose education system is modeled on the English model, are inferior?
No they are just starting from scratch.
Yes, they lack Western Knowledge.
No they are just starting from scratch.
Yes, they lack Western Knowledge.
W
William
You are as ignorant and your are foolish.
It has nothing to do where the person is from.
They lack the general knowledge and common sense
that we have.
India population is over one billion, and they haven't
accomplished 1/1000 of what we accomplished in the US.
If they were that good, then they would be way ahead of us.
It has nothing to do where the person is from.
They lack the general knowledge and common sense
that we have.
India population is over one billion, and they haven't
accomplished 1/1000 of what we accomplished in the US.
If they were that good, then they would be way ahead of us.
W
William
There are a lot of top notch Russian programmers. Look at how many of the best hackers are Russian.
You know this from first hand experience? Have you been to India? Have you
met any Indian programmers? I haven't been to India but I have met a few
Indian programmers. They seemed the same as other programmers to me. Some
were good, some weren't. Are Russian programmers also inferior? How about
Brazilian programmers?
You know this from first hand experience? Have you been to India? Have you
met any Indian programmers? I haven't been to India but I have met a few
Indian programmers. They seemed the same as other programmers to me. Some
were good, some weren't. Are Russian programmers also inferior? How about
Brazilian programmers?
J
James Saveker
Hi Ted,
I really did not want to enter in to this pointless banter however I do feel
very passionately about Microsoft and their Trustworthy Computing Framework
an initiative launched back in 2002. Microsoft have not always valued
security before functionality which is inherently wrong and caused them to
receive quite a bit of bad press (which in most cases was justified).
However since starting this TCF a completely new ethos for all developers
and product designers in Microsoft they have significantly increased
security in their new server products and Vista is the first test of a MS
programmers changed ethos in security on the client model.
I think they are doing a cracking job. Microsoft can sometimes not win at
all against the small minded simple folk who like to criticize Microsoft
purely for being Microsoft.
Let's look at your argument....
Please explain to me what unneccessary security is.. I assume you are
reffering to UAC... it's interesting as this technology has pretty much been
running in Solaris for many years. In most unix variants it is not normal
nor even accepted practise for any body to be logged in to the system with
the admin (or in this case root) account. Users would perform tasks that
requires additional privalledges in a command shell running as a privelidged
account using pseudo run.
One of the main reasons Windows XP is so vulnerable to attack from malware
is (sorry about this chap) but people like yourself that run with
administritive privs. I would be very surprised if you were not running
with them. Now I am not saying that XP was incapable of having locked down
accounts and security policys, quite the opposite infact, however out of the
box it is very insecure.
Now we cannot expect "home users" to harden their systems, no need anymore
Vista installs to a default configuration which has taken all this into
account. Now if the user attempts to run something out of the scope of
their privs windows will automatically psuedo run the process with the users
permission. FANTASTIC!
Seems to be Microsoft are dammed if they are insecure (ms sucks use linux
etc) and are dammed if they are secure (this is slowing me down prompting me
for stuff).
It's a fine balance... The security triangle has functionality and ease of
use on the bottom two corners and security on the top corner... the closer
you move toward security the further away you move from functionality and
ease of use.
Well your statement is inherently incorrect as I have run quite a bit of
Software designed for Windows XP and it's happily sitting with Vista. One
thing that you seem to forget is that Vista is still in development and 3rd
party software houses are still testing compatibility with Vista. In order
for any reasonable improvement to an OS there will inevitably be a few
compatibility issues in the short term.
I remember running XP RTM when it was released and having a few pieces of
software that would not run for love no money (can't remember what they
were).
Just my $0.02
I really did not want to enter in to this pointless banter however I do feel
very passionately about Microsoft and their Trustworthy Computing Framework
an initiative launched back in 2002. Microsoft have not always valued
security before functionality which is inherently wrong and caused them to
receive quite a bit of bad press (which in most cases was justified).
However since starting this TCF a completely new ethos for all developers
and product designers in Microsoft they have significantly increased
security in their new server products and Vista is the first test of a MS
programmers changed ethos in security on the client model.
I think they are doing a cracking job. Microsoft can sometimes not win at
all against the small minded simple folk who like to criticize Microsoft
purely for being Microsoft.
Let's look at your argument....
TedF said:No I didn't, I just don't like all the new features, the extra
unnecessary security.
Please explain to me what unneccessary security is.. I assume you are
reffering to UAC... it's interesting as this technology has pretty much been
running in Solaris for many years. In most unix variants it is not normal
nor even accepted practise for any body to be logged in to the system with
the admin (or in this case root) account. Users would perform tasks that
requires additional privalledges in a command shell running as a privelidged
account using pseudo run.
One of the main reasons Windows XP is so vulnerable to attack from malware
is (sorry about this chap) but people like yourself that run with
administritive privs. I would be very surprised if you were not running
with them. Now I am not saying that XP was incapable of having locked down
accounts and security policys, quite the opposite infact, however out of the
box it is very insecure.
Now we cannot expect "home users" to harden their systems, no need anymore
Vista installs to a default configuration which has taken all this into
account. Now if the user attempts to run something out of the scope of
their privs windows will automatically psuedo run the process with the users
permission. FANTASTIC!
Seems to be Microsoft are dammed if they are insecure (ms sucks use linux
etc) and are dammed if they are secure (this is slowing me down prompting me
for stuff).
It's a fine balance... The security triangle has functionality and ease of
use on the bottom two corners and security on the top corner... the closer
you move toward security the further away you move from functionality and
ease of use.
I don't like that non of the 3rd party software work on Vista,
they all need updating.
Well your statement is inherently incorrect as I have run quite a bit of
Software designed for Windows XP and it's happily sitting with Vista. One
thing that you seem to forget is that Vista is still in development and 3rd
party software houses are still testing compatibility with Vista. In order
for any reasonable improvement to an OS there will inevitably be a few
compatibility issues in the short term.
I remember running XP RTM when it was released and having a few pieces of
software that would not run for love no money (can't remember what they
were).
Just my $0.02
G
Guest
TedF said:Vista is nothing but a screwed up XP.
You're simply an ignorant man
T
TedF
You ignorant and stupid, you must have been very happy
with the support you got from India lately. Most likely never tried it.
You are one of those traitors that support and keep American
programmer jobless and take jobs out of the US.
It is better if you shut your mouth up.
You are as ignorant and your are foolish.
It has nothing to do where the person is from.
They lack the general knowledge and common sense
that we have.
India population is over one billion, and they haven't
accomplished 1/1000 of what we accomplished in the US.
If they were that good, then they would be way ahead of us.
with the support you got from India lately. Most likely never tried it.
You are one of those traitors that support and keep American
programmer jobless and take jobs out of the US.
It is better if you shut your mouth up.
You are as ignorant and your are foolish.
It has nothing to do where the person is from.
They lack the general knowledge and common sense
that we have.
India population is over one billion, and they haven't
accomplished 1/1000 of what we accomplished in the US.
If they were that good, then they would be way ahead of us.
T
TedF
Being educated is not enough, if you the person
is ignorant on how things do run.
You could be great programmer but know nothing
about computers, then you are ignorant programmer.
So in your world, the young punks that walk around with their pants hanging
down around their knees are bastions of 'Western Knowledge' because they
live in the United States, while hard working, intelligent people in India,
whose education system is modeled on the English model, are inferior?
No they are just starting from scratch.
Yes, they lack Western Knowledge.
is ignorant on how things do run.
You could be great programmer but know nothing
about computers, then you are ignorant programmer.
So in your world, the young punks that walk around with their pants hanging
down around their knees are bastions of 'Western Knowledge' because they
live in the United States, while hard working, intelligent people in India,
whose education system is modeled on the English model, are inferior?
No they are just starting from scratch.
Yes, they lack Western Knowledge.
T
TedF
I don't need to study.
I can see that the US is the number one, even though
we make lousy cars lately.
I can see that the US is the number one, even though
we make lousy cars lately.
T
TedF
AVG antivirus is made by Yugoslavian programmers,
I think its better than any antivirus.
Doesn't mean we should export all our work to them.
There are a lot of top notch Russian programmers. Look at how many of the
best hackers are Russian.
You know this from first hand experience? Have you been to India? Have you
met any Indian programmers? I haven't been to India but I have met a few
Indian programmers. They seemed the same as other programmers to me. Some
were good, some weren't. Are Russian programmers also inferior? How about
Brazilian programmers?
I think its better than any antivirus.
Doesn't mean we should export all our work to them.
There are a lot of top notch Russian programmers. Look at how many of the
best hackers are Russian.
You know this from first hand experience? Have you been to India? Have you
met any Indian programmers? I haven't been to India but I have met a few
Indian programmers. They seemed the same as other programmers to me. Some
were good, some weren't. Are Russian programmers also inferior? How about
Brazilian programmers?
T
TedF
What you are saying, a hillbilly from the country
is just as knowledgeable as a city boy.
is just as knowledgeable as a city boy.
T
TedF
You must be one of those Microsoft pimps and
work for Microsoft.
You are an ignorant a$$ butting in, better you stay out of it.
Gee, how come that is not that common experience of several million people
who are running it. I have a Gateway computer that I bought back in October
2002 and Vista runs just fine on it. Perhaps the 'pile of complicated junk'
is your desktop computer. Why don't you crawl back into your little hole of
your imaginary play world and let us go about contributing, even if it is a
in a small way, to the overall quality of the next generation of Windows
Operating System.
Will someone give this person a room for himself and a container of Lincoln
Logs.
Vista is nothing but a screwed up XP.
Wasn't impressed at all, it is a pile complicated
junk.
They took XP and tweaked it, moved many things around,
thinking they can fool virus makers and hackers, made
much harder for the user with many popup worthless
security messages.
I bet it will be very hard to clean if it does get infected
with a virus or spyware, twenty times harder than XP.
Unfortunately DELL, HP and all computer companies will
be pushing and pimping the software for Microsoft.
Say no to Vista, stupid if you say yes.
work for Microsoft.
You are an ignorant a$$ butting in, better you stay out of it.
Gee, how come that is not that common experience of several million people
who are running it. I have a Gateway computer that I bought back in October
2002 and Vista runs just fine on it. Perhaps the 'pile of complicated junk'
is your desktop computer. Why don't you crawl back into your little hole of
your imaginary play world and let us go about contributing, even if it is a
in a small way, to the overall quality of the next generation of Windows
Operating System.
Will someone give this person a room for himself and a container of Lincoln
Logs.
Vista is nothing but a screwed up XP.
Wasn't impressed at all, it is a pile complicated
junk.
They took XP and tweaked it, moved many things around,
thinking they can fool virus makers and hackers, made
much harder for the user with many popup worthless
security messages.
I bet it will be very hard to clean if it does get infected
with a virus or spyware, twenty times harder than XP.
Unfortunately DELL, HP and all computer companies will
be pushing and pimping the software for Microsoft.
Say no to Vista, stupid if you say yes.
T
TedF
You are real stupid, you are full of crap.
Have you considered that the reason for this might be a really crappy
driver? Just because people put crap into their computer, that does not make
Windows a piece of crap.
I have Dual core Intel with a very new motherboard.
Installation went very smooth, I have no hardware
problems, Using the 32 Bit.
Take it back, it has hard time recognizing my second
Network card network, it did for once then lost it
upon a reboot. XP was just as bad.
I just don't like the software, it is made for the
Geek Squad and computer companies to make money
trouble shooting and fixing it.
Have you considered that the reason for this might be a really crappy
driver? Just because people put crap into their computer, that does not make
Windows a piece of crap.
I have Dual core Intel with a very new motherboard.
Installation went very smooth, I have no hardware
problems, Using the 32 Bit.
Take it back, it has hard time recognizing my second
Network card network, it did for once then lost it
upon a reboot. XP was just as bad.
I just don't like the software, it is made for the
Geek Squad and computer companies to make money
trouble shooting and fixing it.
G
Guest
Hey Major,
I've upgraded to both RC-1 and RC-2 on my emachine laptop bought at Best Buy
two years ago and Vista is working great!
Mike
I've upgraded to both RC-1 and RC-2 on my emachine laptop bought at Best Buy
two years ago and Vista is working great!
Mike
H
humphry
Why don't you crawl back into your little hole
We dont have to eat this trash from an ignorant person like you.
You don't need to have the majority opinion on this to know that vista is
trash...
ask me..
Yes. vista is trash, and you are stupid and don't know anything about
computers if you like it.
You also have horrible taste! gessshhhhh...
Its simple really. Vista is ugly in every way.
Gee, how come that is not that common experience of several million people
who are running it. I have a Gateway computer that I bought back in October
2002 and Vista runs just fine on it. Perhaps the 'pile of complicated junk'
is your desktop computer. Why don't you crawl back into your little hole of
your imaginary play world and let us go about contributing, even if it is a
in a small way, to the overall quality of the next generation of Windows
Operating System.
Will someone give this person a room for himself and a container of Lincoln
Logs.
Vista is nothing but a screwed up XP.
Wasn't impressed at all, it is a pile complicated
junk.
They took XP and tweaked it, moved many things around,
thinking they can fool virus makers and hackers, made
much harder for the user with many popup worthless
security messages.
I bet it will be very hard to clean if it does get infected
with a virus or spyware, twenty times harder than XP.
Unfortunately DELL, HP and all computer companies will
be pushing and pimping the software for Microsoft.
Say no to Vista, stupid if you say yes.
We dont have to eat this trash from an ignorant person like you.
You don't need to have the majority opinion on this to know that vista is
trash...
ask me..
Yes. vista is trash, and you are stupid and don't know anything about
computers if you like it.
You also have horrible taste! gessshhhhh...
Its simple really. Vista is ugly in every way.
Gee, how come that is not that common experience of several million people
who are running it. I have a Gateway computer that I bought back in October
2002 and Vista runs just fine on it. Perhaps the 'pile of complicated junk'
is your desktop computer. Why don't you crawl back into your little hole of
your imaginary play world and let us go about contributing, even if it is a
in a small way, to the overall quality of the next generation of Windows
Operating System.
Will someone give this person a room for himself and a container of Lincoln
Logs.
Vista is nothing but a screwed up XP.
Wasn't impressed at all, it is a pile complicated
junk.
They took XP and tweaked it, moved many things around,
thinking they can fool virus makers and hackers, made
much harder for the user with many popup worthless
security messages.
I bet it will be very hard to clean if it does get infected
with a virus or spyware, twenty times harder than XP.
Unfortunately DELL, HP and all computer companies will
be pushing and pimping the software for Microsoft.
Say no to Vista, stupid if you say yes.
R
Roberto Baggio
You can add us Canadians to the list too...