Sorry if this is somewhat off topic...
I wonder how many people purchase the OEM version of Windows not realizing
what the OEM restrictions are...
If you aren't able to build a restore disk from an OEM version cd of
windows, you shouldn't be buying the OEM version. I almost invariably buy
OEM just for the price and asap make myself a restore disk.
--
Takali S. Omega Sr
Host of TechTAK on KFAR 660am
--------------------------------------------------------
Give a man fire and he's warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he's warm
for the rest of his life.
"Chad Harris" <Bushisamoron.net> wrote in message
| My point is not aimed at businesses who make their own restore discs or
have
| IT personnel who make their own images or custom build. My point is that
| 500,000,000 XP users who were individuals not attached to a business
| environmnent haven't been able to make the restore discs work, and they
| don't have a retail XP CD which allows them to boot from it and do a
repair
| install and they won't have a Vista DVD when it RTMs to access Win RE.
The
| restore discs and partitions OEM has will fail to access Win RE in Vista
| just as they failed to do a repair install in XP. For the 500, 000,000 OEM
| purchasers recovery is near impossible.
|
|
| CH
|
|
| | > Well I can tell you we reimage every laptop every time a new user is
| > assigned a laptop.
| > So in the past 5 years at my current job I have never had a problem
| > restoring a laptop form the Restore Disk set that came with the system.
| >
| > We also use our own Image disk set with our corporate software installed
| > for our desktop machines and have never had a problem using that image
on
| > any of our desktops. ( We use to use Ghost and have changed to
Acronis ).
| >
| > I don't understand what is so difficult in putting a CD in the drive and
| > booting to do a restore? You make it sound like its almost impossible to
| > get that to work.
| >
| > "Chad Harris" <mail.MSFTturnssearchesovertogov.net> wrote in message
| > | >> Naw, Gary I pretty much have my coffee choices down right now. I'm
great
| >> at making it. I wouldn't waste a dime on "decaf; I'll leave that
choice
| >> to you. It's easy for you to glibly act as if there aren't major
| >> problems for people who get in trouble with OEM boxes but 99% of them
| >> can't recover. That tends to upset them, They have totally crap tech
| >> support called Convergys of Ohio that MSFT outsources based
predominantly
| >> in Indian cities who are next to impossible to understand not because
| >> they are Indians, but because they are Indians who haven't begun to
| >> master English as a second language. Convergys pays them minimum wage,
| >> and MSFT pays Convergys minimum bucks to keep their phone calls from
| >> coming to any of them. MSFT isn't about to be bothered with PSS for
the
| >> rabble, and they have people like us working for free doing their best
| >> quality support for non Enterprises.
| >>
| >> "We use about 20 Toshiba laptops and I have never had a problem with
the
| >> restore disk set."
| >>
| >> Specifically how many times and for precisely problems did you apply
the
| >> restore disc set to each laptop Gary?
| >>
| >> Apparently then, you think that everything is working fantastic when
| >> OEM's crash. Pssst Gary, I can take you to where you see how crappy
OEM
| >> recovery tools are. You can go to the XP or Vista chats right now and
| >> hang there for a while and you'll see people with preinstalled OEMs
that
| >> can't get to Windows. See how much success you have with the ones who
| >> have Recovery CDs or recovery partitions but no XP CD.
| >>
| >>
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/chatroom.aspx
| >>
| >> You won't have to wait long there for the next OEM No boot, and when it
| >> happens tell 'em Gary is there to make things right; that you have 20
| >> Toshibas and "I have never had a problem" but see how many of them you
| >> can fix. You won't fix any who fail at F8 options without an XP CD to
| >> repair, and it will take you an hour and a half to get them to the F8
| >> options and get them to try all of them.
| >>
| >> I've helped people with over 1000 repairs with a broad spectrum of
boxes
| >> representing 300 of what OEMVP Scott di Valeriano has on his list as
| >> "the 300 Name partners." The name partners include the multibillion
| >> dollar corporations that the choppers fly the OS too, calling it RTM
when
| >> it's very much a Beta. They make a ton, and MSFT gives them a license
to
| >> print money called XP and Vista--aka the operating system every 6
| >> years.The more preinstalled OEMs sell, the more money MSFT makes. Most
| >> pcs use and need Office and a large percentage of them use and need a
| >> panopoly of a few hundred server choices that MSFT markets--and a lot
of
| >> them use servers in the top 20 in sales.
| >>
| >> Vista is scheduled to release sometime in the next several months.
| >> That's when there will be totaly bogus restore discs and totally bogus
| >> restore parititons and the same "You bought an OEM preinstalled Windows
| >> you're screwed if you don't go out and buy a retail Vista DVD" cycle
| >> will repeat for another 6 yeas until Vienna/Blackcomb or whatever
screwy
| >> name the next one gets called comes out. I'm glad to clear up the time
| >> hang up and point you made that Vista has not RTM'd yet.
| >>
| >> That date gets more in flux with every current day and rightly so.
Vista
| >> has major not minor bugs and the need for major not minor feature
| >> changes. UAC is a great theory and its implementation needs much work.
| >> Enterprises and TAP testers have complained vociferously about a box in
| >> their face every time they move, and the response on the UAC team blog
| >> has been the typical condescending indifference. System Restore needs
| >> to be made to make restore points and work. System File Checker does
not
| >> work and whoever is hiding in Redmond who makes it needs to fix it.
MSFT
| >> is so concerned about SFC not working except with one switch most
people
| >> have never heard of that they had one single person post it on one
single
| >> thread of one Beta newsgroupand they released the OS to the public
| >> without any of htat information.
| >> Right now I'm seeing on blogs that its broken, I've been testing it
and
| >> it can severely break Vista and corrupt the registry giving you the
| >> chance to deploy Win RE. The start menu UI is designed ridiculously and
| >> it can't even expand the All Programs Menu.
| >>
| >> You bring me those Toshiba computers Gary and let's apply the XP and
the
| >> Vista tests that MSFT is frightented to take. We divide them into ten
| >> and ten. I'll find a myriad number of ways to break them in second.s
| >> Half you try to fix with the Toshiba recovery media and half with the
XP
| >> CD and we''ll keep score.
| >>
| >> Since nothing will change when Vista finally RTMS, we can do the same
| >> with Vista.
| >>
| >> Michael Burke , a PM for the Windows Client was quoted in the Investors
| >> Business Daily article this morning admitting they don't know when it
| >> will ship. A number of parameters are forecastsing a very luke warm
| >> reception for Vista.
| >>
| >> The reason is stasis, recalcitrant mediocrity, and teams who have a tin
| >> ear for what testers have told them and build after build that doesn't
| >> fix major systemic problems. The major one is an arrogance that
purports
| >> to want feedback, and has complete indifference toward feedback or
| >> interaction.
| >>
| >> You can see the results of the Changewave Vista Survey quoted in IBD
| >> yourself:
| >>
http://www.changewave.com/freeconte...reecontent/2006/05/alliance-vista-051506.html
| >>
| >> 1161 Executives were polled May 16-22 including 54 people who worked
for
| >> companies involved in TAP programs and 146 people whose companies were
| >> joining a program to test Vista and 961 who decision makers in tech
| >> spending for their companies.
| >>
| >> 22% of respondents who are Beta testing believe it will ship in the 4th
| >> quarter of 2006. Many people report a major core revision to Vista a
| >> year after it RTMs, with an upgraded Vista kernel projected for 2008,
| >> something unprecedented in Windows and and suggesting it will ship as
a
| >> Beta. 75% won't defer server or PC purchases to wait for Vista.
| >>
| >> It all boils down to one word-- incorrigible arrogance and indifference
| >> to feedback, and it's going to cost them a lot of money.
| >>
| >> CH
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >> | >>> WOW someone needs to switch to decaf.
| >>>
| >>> We use about 20 Toshiba laptops and I have never had a problem with
the
| >>> restore disk set.
| >>>
| >>> And how can there be a restore disk for Vista when its not even
released
| >>> yet?
| >>>
| >>> "Chad Harris" <mail.MSFTturnssearchesovertogov.net> wrote in message
| >>> | >>>> You need to use Win RE on a Vista DVD burned with MSFT's code. MSFT
| >>>> needs to get off their lazy butts and put comprehensive documentation
| >>>> on how to use Win RE on Technet and MSDN. They need to write a
| >>>> comprehensive FAQ and in depth article on System Restore in Vista the
| >>>> way hundreds of XP books have for XP. It's different in Vista and
| >>>> right now the System Restore Product Manager at Redmond hasn't done a
| >>>> thing to fix his broken System Restore. System Restore not only will
| >>>> not manufacture Restore Points on a Vista box even at the five
default
| >>>> times System Restore with the registry untweaked will on an XP box,
it
| >>>> won't manufacture them at all. If it makes one, you're luck. Go and
| >>>> look. There is no documentation on System Restore in Vista based on
the
| >>>> Volume Shadow Service anywhere on MSFT's Technet or MSDN site. Not
one
| >>>> softy of the thousands who are MSDN blogging the pure Nirvana of
Vista
| >>>> that's getting ready to ship broken badly will document these
features.
| >>>>
| >>>> System File Checker, a stalwart utility in different evolutions since
| >>>> Windows 98, is now broken in Vista every build through Beta 2 5384.4.
| >>>> MSFT has not lifted a finger to fix it; nor have the Softies posted
one
| >>>> scintilla of information on it .
| >>>>
| >>>> It was totally irresponsible of MFST to release Beta 2 to the public,
| >>>> most of whom pays no attention to the word Beta and not release
| >>>> instructions and documentation anywhere on their web site. It's also
| >>>> difficult for Beta Testers who are kind enough to help in here to
tell
| >>>> you about Windows RE and System Restore in Vista when none of them
has
| >>>> comprehensive information about it themselves.
| >>>>
| >>>> Let's get this out in the open and make it clear. Toshiba makes
great
| >>>> computers--they have a wonderful research organization and some of
the
| >>>> finest retailers on the planet. . So does Dell, and so do some of
| >>>> other 300 name partners. But MSFT and the 300 so called large "named
| >>>> OEM" partners don't give a damn about restore CDs working. If they
did
| >>>> give a damn you would get a Vista DVD with every OEM purchase or
| >>>> time-wise now that would have been a retail XP CD.
| >>>>
| >>>> Let's make no mistake about it. The people who make Win RE, and the
| >>>> teams who make System Restore and contribute to these recovery
features
| >>>> in Vista were directly challenged to take a room full of their best
and
| >>>> brightest and break Vista. Half the machines would have a MSFT Vista
| >>>> DVD and half the machines would have the pure crap that OEMs ship.
OEM
| >>>> VP Scott di Valerion has an Excel--he hasn't caught on to Google free
| >>>> spreadsheets yet, spreadsheet that has exactly which crap which 300
| >>>> named OEM partners ship.
| >>>>
| >>>> MSFT makes money selling that preinstalled OS. After that if you
don't
| >>>> buy another retail OS on MSFT media, you're screwed. Don't even try
to
| >>>> use the Recovery CD for a dog's frissbee. The dog will be smart
enough
| >>>> to look at you and say "No go Bozo. Spring for a real frissbee."
| >>>>
| >>>> MSFT was aware of this problem for the last seven years. They utter
| >>>> hollow words like "we encoruage OEM partners to ship media that will
| >>>> allow them to recover." They know damn well it doesn't and their
| >>>> response to a challenge to prove it does is met with PURE SILENCE.
| >>>>
| >>>> You won't see one person from the Vista team or MSFT jumping in here
to
| >>>> defend the crap that they allow OEM to ship. They know it's a day
late
| >>>> and a dollar short on code and don't ever think you will access Win
RE
| >>>> on OEM media or partitions. Custom solutions that MFST Vista team
| >>>> members allude to that are available for enterprises sure. But when
| >>>> their ad campaign for Vista rolls out you ain't gonna see no
enterprise
| >>>> enjoying Vista--you are going to see mom, dad, and kid nuclear family
| >>>> using ti.
| >>>>
| >>>> This is all about hypocrisy. Scott di Valerio OEM VP isn't a
software
| >>>> engineer with an eduation in computer science. He's a Price Water
| >>>> accountant who is at MSFT to make money. He's not there to insure
that
| >>>> the 500 million past XP legitimate desktops work. He's not there to
| >>>> insure that OEM Vista purchasers will be able to use Win RE. I think
| >>>> that if interviewed this moment, OEM VP Scott di Valerio would not be
| >>>> able to demonstrate for me how to recover XP No Boots or Vista no
| >>>> boots, and I think that's a compelling point.
| >>>>
| >>>> If put to a test with a Video camera right now, there is not one
| >>>> individual on the Vista team at MSFT who can access Windows RE from
OEM
| >>>> media or OEM partitions and they know it. And those boxes are
| >>>> available to MSFT right this minute from Dell, Sony, HP ect to test.
| >>>> They have that stuff on the Redmond campus right now. They could
test
| >>>> it in public and try to prove it works, but they don't dare to.
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>> MSFT may be attempting to make software, but they are letting the
| >>>> business types like accountant Scott di Valerio call the shots on
| >>>> whether you get competent recovery media that has efficacy.
Translated
| >>>> that means that forget about it--recover parititons supplied by the
| >>>> OEMs and so called Recovery CDS will not reach the panopoly of
Recovery
| >>>> Features in Windows RE whatsoever and all the Softies on the Vista
| >>>> teams concerned with this feature are completely aware of it. But
they
| >>>> aren't going to come out and say so. It's the topic that's taboo to
| >>>> them and they don't want discussion about this. They don't want to
| >>>> hear that System Restore and SFC System File Checker are broken in
| >>>> Vista because they are going to ship it whether they work or not.
And
| >>>> all that feedback they tell you is avialable--it goes right to the
Tin
| >>>> Ears and the Delete button. If feedback had efficacy, they would
have
| >>>> provided documentation on System Restore and Win RE on their site,
and
| >>>> they would have fixed those features in Vista and if you pay hundreds
| >>>> or thousands of dollars to an OEM and don't demand a retail XP CD
| >>>> and/or a retail Vista DVD then my friend, you deserve to be up the
| >>>> creek without a paddele that MSFTand their OEM wants and intends you
| >>>> to be sitting on.
| >>>>
| >>>> How much self respect can you have and how can you look yourself in
the
| >>>> mirror if you are a PM on the Vista team concerned with core file
| >>>> services or Windows RE or any aspect of System Restore or Recovery or
| >>>> you are Chris Jones, Corporate Vice President Corporate Vice
President,
| >>>> Windows Client Core Development and you know that a huge base of your
| >>>> non-enterprise customers are completely screwed when it comes to
fixing
| >>>> a trashed Vista because MSFT hasn't fulfilled their responsibility
| >>>> conjointly with their 300 OEM Named Partners.
| >>>>
| >>>> They want you to buy Vista pre-installed on an expensive computer
with
| >>>> your hard earned money,l but they don't give a damn whether you have
| >>>> the tools to fix it. Let them hear from you. Let them know you
aren't
| >>>> going to buy the OEM unless MSFT gets off its butt and comes to an
| >>>> agreement with those 300 name OEM partners to ship you a retail Vista
| >>>> DVD. They can get this done. But they didn't in XP and they have no
| >>>> plans to do so in Vista. It's the quintissential "Let the masses eat
| >>>> cake" from the Redmond campus Vista teams.
| >>>>
| >>>> These guys have key rolls in your not getting competent media from
OEM
| >>>> Platinumesque partners like Dell, Sony, HP, Acer that will fix Vista
| >>>> when it is a no boot.
| >>>>
| >>>> Chris Jones Corporate Vice President, Windows Client Core Development
| >>>>
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/cjones/default.mspx
| >>>>
| >>>> Here's Chris smiliing and joking with his Vista box but the one
| >>>> question Rob Scoble didn't get around to asking Chris is the taboo
| >>>> question on whether OEM customers have media or partitions or a life
| >>>> raft to recover Vista that works:
| >>>>
| >>>> Chris Jones - Beta 1 of Windows Vista revealed Video of the Man
| >>>> Responsible for Vista and a key player in the situation where OEM
| >>>> Recovery Media doesn't work
| >>>>
http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=92834
| >>>>
| >>>> Scott di Valerio Corporate OEM VP MSFT--another key player in the
| >>>> situation where OEM recovery media doesn't work:
| >>>>
| >>>> Scott Di Valerio Corporate Vice President, OEM Division
| >>>>
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/scottdiv/default.mspx
| >>>>
| >>>> You could try to contact these guys and let them know you want retail
| >>>> DVDs when you make your expensive OEM purchases that not only makes
| >>>> MSFT a Vista sale, but has dividends in advertisement and introducing
| >>>> you to scores of other MSFT marketing venues like MSN, and other
| >>>> software and tons of new products. But I believe they would have a
tin
| >>>> ear and are totally unresposive. Look at the key features in Vista
| >>>> right now that they refuse to fix after 10 months of feedback that
| >>>> System Restore doesn't make restore points, that the All Programs
Menu
| >>>> doesn't expand, that SFC System Fiel Checker is completely broken and
| >>>> look at their total refusal to provide documentation on the products
| >>>> that they released to the public free of course as a pure marketing
| >>>> tool that totally transcends any component of feedback for Beta 2
| >>>> Public Vista 5384.4.
| >>>>
| >>>> The only way to get Mr. Jones and Mr.Valiero to listen is to insist
| >>>> that you get retail media or refuse to buy OEM machines. They can
get
| >>>> it done; but right now they don't think you matter. They have access
| >>>> to Vista DVDs as do their family and friends. They had access to XP
| >>>> CDs to do repair installs in XP as well. They know it; and they
| >>>> haven't shown they give a damn.
| >>>>
| >>>> The teams who make these products haven't shown they give a damn
| >>>> because they lack the guts to walk up to Mr. Di Valerio and Chris
Jones
| >>>> and bang on their desks and look them in the eye and say "I damn well
| >>>> want my products to be available to 500 million OEM Vista customers
and
| >>>> you have it set up so that they won't. Do something about this now.
| >>>> Let the OEMs and MSFT know you won't take this anymore. Or be
prepared
| >>>> to sit their whining about the PC you can't fix with so-called
reocvery
| >>>> media and recovery partitions provided by OEM that MSFT has allowed
to
| >>>> exist and flourish.
| >>>>
| >>>> CH
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>> | >>>>> Yes. i've tried putting in the restore cd and vista won't take it.
it
| >>>>> say
| >>>>> that it can't regonize the window version
| >>>>>
| >>>>> "Tom Porterfield" wrote:
| >>>>>
| >>>>>> Daniel Woo wrote:
| >>>>>> > I have a Toshiba laptop and had the experience of being happy for
| >>>>>> > 30
| >>>>>> > minutes. Then it hit me. I can't do much on here like i would on
| >>>>>> > XP. Well
| >>>>>> > duh, Its beta so theres not much freedomize things you can do.
I've
| >>>>>> > read
| >>>>>> > some posts and i took it into play. I haven't have much luck with
| >>>>>> > the
| >>>>>> > info. I can't find it in the add/remove program and i've tried
| >>>>>> > format and
| >>>>>> > a window came up saying i couldn't do it becuase "vista" was on
it.
| >>>>>> > I
| >>>>>> > don't have a XP boot cd like some people do . I have a restore
| >>>>>> > cd(3) and
| >>>>>> > couldn't use it because it says that it couldn't regonize the
| >>>>>> > current
| >>>>>> > window version on it. What can i do to take off Vista FOREVER.
| >>>>>>
| >>>>>> Have you tried booting with the restore CD, the first one? I'm not
| >>>>>> that
| >>>>>> familiar with Toshiba, but often restore CD's are bootable. If
that
| >>>>>> is the
| >>>>>> case, you would boot from the restore CD, which would then walk you
| >>>>>> through
| >>>>>> the process of restoring the OS on the PC to what it was when
| >>>>>> delivered from
| >>>>>> the factory.
| >>>>>> --
| >>>>>> Tom Porterfield
| >>>>>>
| >>>>>>
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
