[Note: Several issues addressed: Undeletable files, "Delayed Write Failed"
errors, Recyle Bin issues, CHKDSK problem.]
[See inline replies between paragraphs]
"Teflon" <spambaitmeister at gmail dot com> wrote:
Good memory - yes it is, a Simpletech, have bought several more since
then.
Well, my memory was refreshed by Google search to see what other computer
problems that you have had that may be related to your current situation.
I'm guessing the HDD did not come with a 5 year warranty? Your current
problem seems to be software, not hardware related, however USB drives tend
to be finicky at times.
Have you tried hooking the USB HDD to another computer, and try delete?
Yes, but since I just use it to mainly store backups, it is not turned
on most of the time. Just turn it on to create a new backup copy.
OK. (See my comments below about the Delayed Write issue.)
Not to my knowledge, unless you consider turning it off and on to be
the equivalent of a power failure.
Sort of. With a power failure, both computer and drive would go down, and
you would not get an error message informing you a disk write did not
complete. The NTFS system has built in recovery options for power failure,
to protect against file corruption. Before writing to the disk, some
metadata is first stored on the disk, and if the write is completed, the
cache gets flushed. After a power failure, NTFS begins a crash recovery
procedure which would roll back any uncompleted process.
Simpletech's website doesn't offer much more than a link to a general
HDD forum. Don't know if other HDD vendor's diagnostics would work.
I do have a WD USB HDD also, but it is FAT32.
You might check to see if they have more up to date drivers for your drive.
No, when I try, the drive's folder tree goes blank. Turn drive off/on
and the tree is re-populated with file names.
Why the folder tree goes blank is still a mystery to me.
Yes, lost the tree.
No, will give that a try.
[See my separate reply to your followup message.]
I got to the sub-folder via DOS, ran dir /x, saw the files, but when I
tried to delete them via DEL, I get the message on several of them
that that they could not be found. I was able to delete several of
the files that folder via DEL, but the one that hung the original
delete, plus several others, can not be deleted (can't be found - even
though I can see them) - Tried short names and all. Tried DELTREE
command to delete the directory this sub-folder is in, but a message
said that DELTREE was not a valid DOS command(?)
Windows XP Command Prompt is not DOS and has no deltree command.
[quote:] 'deltree' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
OK, thanks for clearing that up. Found several other things that told
me I was not using full DOS.[/QUOTE]
Correction: My "not DOS" statement needs revising, since there is
technically more than one kind of Command Prompt. The Windows Command Prompt
is the cmd.exe program, but there is also a command.com program which is a
DOS emulation. At the Windows command prompt, if you type "command /?"
(without quotes,) the first thing the context help says is: "Starts a new
instance of the MS-DOS command interpreter."
click Start(button), click Help, Search for:
Unavailable MS-DOS Commands
In Suggested Topics, click "New ways to use tools"
[You can use rmdir instead of deltree]
[Neither cmd.exe nor command.com have a deltree command.]
OK, that should not be a problem. Ordinarily, you might get some sort of Are
You Sure prompt when trying to delete a read only file, but you are getting
freeky explorer behavior. I was mainly wondering if it was encrypted, since
I had severe problems deleting an encrypted folder once, until I killed the
explorer.exe process and restarted it.
I've tried CHKDSK, but get a message 'Windows unable to complete the
disk check' - that also causes the tree to go poof.
Start> [Settings] Control Panel> Administrative Tools> Event Viewer
Check Event Viewer for the "Application" category or "System" category
Error message. Double click it to display. The button below the up and
down arrow buttons is the Copy to Clipboard button. Paste a copy into
a reply here.
Also: The "Security" category sometimes records file deletion issues if
there is a security connection. "The security log holds security event
records, such as logon attempts and actions related to creating, opening, or
deleting files. An administrator can specify what events to record in the
security log." (There should be none, unless you have changed the default.)
Several regarding this issue:
Event Type: Information
Event Source: Application Popup
Event Category: None
Event ID: 26
Date: 7/18/2009
Time: 9:05:21 AM
User: N/A
Computer: MASTER
Description:
Application popup: Windows - Delayed Write Failed : Windows was unable
to save all the data for the file G:\RECYCLER
\S-1-5-21-<... SNIP...>-1005\INFO2. The data has
been lost. This error may be caused by a failure of your computer
hardware or network connection. Please try to save this file
elsewhere.
[I snipped out the unique computer identifier part of your SID number.]
[I have addressed the recycler and info2 issue separately.]
See also: Windows XP and Surprise Removal of Hardware
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/XPrem-devs.mspx
There are at least 8 possible reasons for a DWF (Delayed Write Failed)
error. In your case my first guess would be that the errors occurred when
you switched OFF the drive when the delete messed up. With most disk
operations, Windows likes to delay writing some information like last
access time to disk, and keeps it in its memory cache for up to an hour in
some cases. (Otherwise every continuous "read" access of a file would
involve a continuous "write" of last access time to disk.) By default, a USB
flash drive is Optimized for Fast Removal, but a hard drive works best if
Optimized for Performance, with caching active, and there would be Delayed
Write of some things. It would be best if you use the SRH (Safely Remove
Hardware) option before switching off a USB hard drive, or right-click the
drive icon in Explorer and click Eject, (when the folder tree works.
You can put a shortcut to the SRH (Safely Remove Hardware) dialog on
your desktop or Start Menu, and the usual side effect of accessing that
dialog is for the icon to appear in the SysTray Notification Area, (if you
have the device connected.)
Right click your desktop, click New, click Shortcut.
Type or paste this next line into the location box:
RunDll32.exe shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL hotplug.dll
[There is a space after "exe" and before "hot".]
click Next, and type or paste this into the name box:
Safely Remove Hardware
Click Finish. If you like, you can right click the new shortcut, click
Change Icon, and in the Look for Icons box, type or paste:
%SystemRoot%\system32\hotplug.dll
and click OK, and select the SRH icon for your shortcut, click OK, OK.
(You might want to set a Shortcut-Key on that property sheet also. I would
suggest the ctrl+shft+0 [zero] key combination, which is not one of the
pre-defined keyboard shortcuts used by other applications, AFAIK.)
To put that shortcut on your Start Menu, left click and drag the shortcut,
hold it over the Start button for a second until the menu appears, point to
(All) Programs, then Accessories, then position it where you want it by
looking at the horizontal lines that appear between items, and then drop it
(while holding shift key) to MOVE it there, or hold your CTRL key as you
release your mouse button to COPY it. A +plus symbol will appear on the
pointer when you copy. (P.S. to cancel a drag in progress, press ESC key.
[Note: Your StartMenu>Properties>Customize needs to have Dragging and
dropping "enabled" for adding shortcuts to the Start Menu.]
- - -
To check your Hardware Removal options:
hold WinLogo-key, press PauseBreak key for System Properties
click Hardware tab, click Device Manager
click + (plus) to expand Disk drives
right click your USB drive, click Properties
In General tab, Device status should be "This device is working properly"
[Check the status of your other devices while you are there. :]
click Policies tab. Which option is selected?
( ) Optimize for quick removal, or
(*) Optimize for performance
Is there this 3rd option?
[*] Enable write caching on the disk
This setting enables write caching to improve disk performance, but a power
outage or equipment failure might result in data loss or corruption.
The right-click What's This says: "Select to allow the drive to do
write-back caching. This can improve write performance, but it will increase
the chance of disk corruption if the system is not shut down properly."
- - -
You might want to set the G-volume to Optimize for quick removal until your
current problems are resolved. Disk operations will be a bit slower, but you
can safely switch off the drive 10 or so seconds after disk activity stops.
Note: Your other Events happened at the same the date/time, so I have
excerpted only these relevant parts:
Application popup: Windows - Delayed Write Failed : Windows was unable
to save all the data for the file G:\RECYCLER
\S-1-5-21-<... snip...>-1005.
Application popup: Windows - Delayed Write Failed : Windows was unable
to save all the data for the file G:\RECYCLER
\S-1-5-21-<... snip...>-1005\Dg87.
Application popup: Windows - Delayed Write Failed : Windows was unable
to save all the data for the file G:\CDV Cabinet.
Those all appear to be due to connection loss or Explorer file tree glitch.
In Event Viewer, Application, look in the Source column for "Winlogon", for
Explorer problems and CHKDSK logs.
Funny, when I delete a file off any of my USB drives, the file shows
up in the Recycle Bin. When I checked each of the USB drives via DOS
(after checking all of the un-hide options), I found a RECYCLER
directory on the NTFS drives, and a RECYCLED directory on the FAT32
drive. The G: drive RECYCLER directory had a S-1-5-..... in it.
Inside that directory were 2 files, a 65 byte 'desktop.ini' file and a
20 byte 'Info2' file.
It appears I was misinformed about the difference between removable media
(floppy disks) and removable devices like USB hard drives which do not have
removable disks, and CAN have a recycled (fat32) or recycler (ntfs) folder.
The RECYCLER directory on the other NTFS drive had the
S-1-5-.......directory in it, and in side of that directory was a file
identifying the test file I deleted from that drive, Df1.mp3 (F:
drive) and Dc1.mpeg (C: drive).
Seems there are different recycle bin associated directories on those
USB HDDs.
My thought are, the 'Info2' file in the G: drive RECYCLER directory is
corrupted and should be deleted. Wondering if the 'desktop.ini' file
is corrupted as well.
See my 2nd reply regarding RECYCLER stuff.
OK, you have about 20% free space, so that is not a factor.
BTW: I forgot to ask, Are the undeletable files in a regular folder, or a
"Compressed (ZIP) folder"?
I can recreate most everything that is there.
(OK, I guess... as long as the vultures are not circling yet.
Thanks for the guideline. Will do the same on the other HDD's to
simplify backups.
Another reason for 50GB maximum is item #2 in this KB article:
Windows XP Delayed Write Failed
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330174
=== begin excerpt quote ===
A delayed write failure may occur if data is corrupted. Data corruption may
occur if the Large System Cache feature is enabled for memory usage in
Windows XP. If this feature is enabled, the number of page table entries
that Windows XP must maintain may be increased, and in extreme cases, may be
exhausted. Although this problem does not occur on all systems, the
following key factors may cause data corruption:
1. System memory that is more than 512 megabytes (1 gigabyte of RAM is
common)
2. Large NTFS disk volumes and multiple large volumes (60-100 gigabyte hard
drives, possibly in RAID arrays)
3. AGP graphics with large AGP resource requirements (more than the default
AGP aperture)
4. Large file transfers. This problem occurs when the computer runs out of
system page table entries. When the computer is started, Windows
determines the default number of page table entries to assign, based
on how much system memory is available.
To avoid data corruption, make sure that the system cache is not selected
for memory usage by disabling the System Cache feature:
Make sure that System Cache is not selected for memory usage
If you are transferring large files, the system may run out of system page
table entries, which may cause the "Delayed Write Failure" error message. To
prevent an increase in the number of page table entries that Windows XP must
maintain and to prevent these from being exhausted, make sure that the
System Cache option is not selected for memory usage. To do this, follow
these steps:
1. Click Start, right-click My Computer, and then click Properties to open
the System Properties dialog box.
2. Click the Advanced tab, and then under Performance, click Settings to
open the Performance Options dialog box.
3. Click the Advanced tab.
4. Under Memory Usage, click to select Programs, and then click OK.
5. Click OK to close the System Properties dialog box.
If these steps worked, you are finished.
If these steps did not work for you, try the workaround.
=== end quote ===
[The workaround is a complicated registry hack, see KB article.]
That is a ToDo, will get back with results.
(See my separate reply.)
To check System Restore monitoring:
Hold WinLogo-key and press PauseBreak key, for System Properties
Click System Restore (tab)
The "Status" area should show monitoring of the system (C
drive only.
I finally figured that out and was able to see it, plus the RECYCLER /
RECYCLED folders on the USB HDDs
OK. See my 2nd message, dealing with recycle/chkdsk issues.
[In Command Prompt at "C:\>" enter: "dir recycler /ah"
(without quotes) to see it.] You must be logged on with Administrator
privileges to delete recycler folder. (Deleting it will delete every
User's Recycle Bin contents on the drive. Windows Explorer will
re-create Recycler and associated files the next time it is needed.)
Don't forget to RE-check "Hide protected operating system files"
(recommended!
So, if anyone has some pointers on how I could go about recovering/
repairing the Recycle space on an NTFS drive, I would appreciate that.
Your G: drive is an external removable USB device, and therefore has no
Recycle Bin capability unless you have modified it to be a mounted drive.
As stated previously, there is a RECYCLED folder (hidden) on each of
the USB HDDs. What are they? I have not knowingly modified them to
be mounted drives. How would I know?
Mounted, in this context refers to a volume (partition) linked to an empty
folder on another volume, in which case you would access the volume through
a folder path, instead of a drive letter. Your drive is accessed by the
letter G, so it is probably not a mounted volume in that context. In
Explorer, the letter drives are mounted to My Computer in the folder tree.
(Click Start, click Help. In the search, enter MOUNTVOL. Also see SUBST)
OK, I tried the mounted volume thing with a 4GB thumb drive (aka. USB flash
drive or memory stick.) In Explorer, the thumb drive appeared as "Thumb01_4G
(E
", and after mounting it to a folder called "C:\Thumb01_4gb", it still
appeared in the folder tree as drive E:, and when I click on C: in the left
pane, the "Thumb01_4gb" folder appears in the C:\ root folder display in the
right pane. I checked in the Disk Management console and that thumb drive
can now be accessed by both drive letter and folder path, with the option to
"Remove" either access method. When I unplugged the thumb drive while the
folder was being displayed in Explorer, the right pane went blank, and I got
this message:
[begin quote:]
C:\Thumb01_4gb refers to a location that is unavailable. It could be on a
hard drive on this computer, or on a network. Check to make sure that the
disk is properly inserted, or that you are connected to the Internet or your
network, and then try again. If it still cannot be located, the information
might have been moved to a different location.
[:end quote]
FYI: To Mount a Volume to a Folder Path:
Activate Computer Managment Console.
How: click Start, click Run, Type or Paste:
compmgmt.msc
click OK
(Click Help on the menu bar to learn how to do other stuff.
In left panel, click "Disk Management"
Find Disk volume in right panel, right click and choose:
"Change Drive Letter and Paths"
click "Add"
click "Mount in the following empty NTFS folder:"
click "Browse", find folder, or click "New Folder" and name it
[Note: You can go this far and still Cancel Cancel Cancel out.]
click OK, OK, OK.
Now you can access that drive through that folder. Beware: Previously, when
you dragged a file from another drive to that drive, a PLUS appeared on your
pointer when you dropped it, indicating it was copied, and the original
remained. With that drive (volume) mounted to a folder, when you drag from
the drive in which that folder is, into that mounted folder, instead of
copying the file to the other drive through that folder, it moves it, and
removes the original. If you only want to copy, press Ctrl-key for the plus
pointer before dropping the file.
Note: The volume that you are mounting to an empty NTFS folder, does not
itself have to be NTFS, it can be FAT32, or even CDROM.
If you change your mind about using a folder path to access the drive,
simply repeat the first steps above, but instead of clicking "Add", click
"Remove", and answer "Yes". (Separately delete the empty folder.)
- - -
I am the only user of this PC, and assume when I sign on that I am the
administrator. Have tried the procedure for taking control of a file,
but when I click on the 'Properties' of a file, there is not a
'Security' tab available. Curious what that could mean.
Re: Security tab missing in file properties
1. You must be using NTFS and not FAT32
2. You need to disable Simple File Sharing:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307874
In any folder, click Tools, click Folder Options, click View(tab)
In Advanced Settings, UN-check "Use simple file sharing (Recommended)"
- - -
How to locate and correct disk space problems on NTFS volumes in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315688
- - -
Also, in Help, search for ADMINISTRATOR, and read the article on "Why you
should not run your computer as an administrator". In the Event Viewer error
reports above, look at the lengthy SID (Security ID) number in the file
path. The last 4 numbers are "1005" indicating you are "user 6". Final
numbers of "500" indicate the special built in Administrator account. In my
c:\recycler, I have a "...500" and a "...1007", user 8, even though I'm
the only user. To see advanced User stuff:
Click Start, click Run, Enter:
control userpasswords2
click Advanced(tab), click Advanced(button), click Users(folder), to see
built in and special user accounts. You can right-click>Properties for each
account in the right pane. On the upper menu bar, click HELP, click Help
Topics, expand Local Users and Groups, click Best Practices. (Read other
stuff there too, if you like.) The built in Administrator account should not
have a password, and should be reserved for emergency use. (In XP Home
Edition, that account is usually only accessed in Safe Mode.)
Thanks Richard, look forward to your response. Will go do that Safe
Mode CHKDSK. Like Ahnald, I'll be baack.
YO, "Ahnald", TERMINATE THIS--> Cherish.mp3 ("Are we learning?"
See my next reply regarding CHKDSK and Recycle issues.
--Richard
