Typical mains power for mid-range PC?

[Cuzman]

Rod Speed wrote:

" Most current drives dont idle at 10W.... ....Dont believe it, list
the model number. "



Select the drop-down menu. Choose each of the bottom four tests and
sort. The second resulting table lists the numbers clearer.

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

That should put the cat among the pigeons.

 

[Johannes]

Rod Speed wrote:

" Most current drives dont idle at 10W.... ....Dont believe it, list
the model number. "

Select the drop-down menu. Choose each of the bottom four tests and
sort. The second resulting table lists the numbers clearer.

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

That should put the cat among the pigeons.

Yes Dorothy was right all along.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Select the drop-down menu. Choose each of the bottom four tests and sort. The second
resulting table lists the numbers clearer.

That should put the cat among the pigeons.

Nope, even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out
that the idle power with commonly used drives is nothing like 10W.

In spades with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max.

 

[Rod Speed]

Cuzman wrote

Yes Dorothy was right all along.

Only in your pathetic little drug crazed fantasyland.

 

[Dorothy Bradbury]

For HD I stated...

And that is overstating it.

o Go to any of the HD maker websites
o Download the manufacturers specification
o Read it.

Stick an ammeter on a current Barracuda & older Barracuda.
Do not use the 2A fused range during startup obviously.

Not very often tho.

PCs have a range of wattage draw re idle/loaded...
o Base end office Cel2.0, integrated graphics, 1 HD, 1 optical
o idle -- 85W with 17" TFT, 95W with 19" TFT
o load -- 120W for 17" TFT, 130W with 19" TFT

Bad assumption.

You really are a troll.

HD spec of 8-17W can not be applied to cooling needs...
o 8-17W is not distributed evenly over the whole drive
---- a HD is Actuator, Spindle Assembly, PCB Components
o 8-17W may be focused in specific components
---- with specific maximum operating temps
---- requiring specific linear feet per min of airflow
o Providing cooling for 8-17W ignores local needs
---- thermal shadowing by other components
---- thermal shadowing by case design & HD positioning


Stick 2x 10,000rpm HD against one another in a drive cage.
Provide sufficient cooling for 2x 8-17W drives.

I will provide the data recovery firm name to use...
o Motor-IC overheats from lack of linear-feet-per-min airflow
o Motor-IC dumps heat into surroundings, motor/spindle heat
o Motor-spindle dumps heat into FDB accelerating aging
o FDB aging causes higher current draw (startup & continuous)
---- S.M.A.R.T. data measures startup Ima &/or startup Tsecs
o Higher current draw heats motor/spindle & Motor-IC
---- Reinforcing System Loop of increasing thermal dissipation

Same thing happens more slowly with HDs anyway - hence the
older a HD the higher the startup current & higher op current.

Add another HD because the old one is too small, fit them too
close & you can accelerate the demise of the old one by temps.

I would assume 30W re cooling needs for 10k-rpm HDs.
You can assume what you wish.

Not very often tho.

???

Yes but you have to assume it at SOME point re 1) cooling 2) PSU.

That last is a good example of the problem with your
original and you didnt even mention the AMD cpus.

???

Ah now I see. Intel tend to be worst case from a thermal perspective.

 

[Wes Newell]

that the idle power with commonly used drives is nothing like 10W.

In spades with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max.

If you check the specs from the manufacturers websites, you''l find that
most current drives do in fact have idle power dissipation around 10W.

Mainstream drives.

150MB/s sata drives;

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 9.00 Watts
Idle 8.75 Watts
Standby 1.20 Watts
Sleep 1.20 Watts

300MB/s sata drives;

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 9.50 Watts
Idle 8.75 Watts
Standby 1.60 Watts
Sleep 1.50 Watts

100MB/s eide drives.

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 8.60 Watts
Idle 8.10 Watts
Standby 1.10 Watts
Sleep 1.00 Watts

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=41&language=en

And from Seagate.

Typical Current (12VDC +/- 5%) 0.433 amps
Startup Current (12VDC +/- 5%) 2.8 amps
Typical Current (5VDC +/- 5%) 0.401 amps
Startup Current (5VDC +/- 5%) 0.841 amps
Power
Seek Power (typ) 12.4 watts
Read/Write Power (typ) 12.8 watts
Idle Power (typ) 7.2 watts


It seems their startup power would be about 38W (2.8*12)+(.8*5). This is
the standard Baracuda drive family. So it seems like Dot may be a little
low with only 20-25W.

http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/enterprise/tech/1,1084,701,00.html

 

[Cuzman]

Rod Speed wrote:

" Nope, even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out that
the idle power with commonly used drives is nothing like 10W. In spades
with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max. "



I never agreed or disagreed with either of you. I just pointed out that
it would be interesting to throw those benchmark results into the
argument. They are done by a team of people likely to have more
expertise on the matter than anyone in this argument.

Here are some more benchmark results out there which you can use:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/storage/hddpower.html

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

If you check the specs from the manufacturers websites, you''l find that
most current drives do in fact have idle power dissipation around 10W.

Says he ignoring the storagereview data.

The reason for that is that the datasheet numbers are worst case numbers.

Mainstream drives.

150MB/s sata drives;

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 9.00 Watts
Idle 8.75 Watts
Standby 1.20 Watts
Sleep 1.20 Watts

300MB/s sata drives;

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 9.50 Watts
Idle 8.75 Watts
Standby 1.60 Watts
Sleep 1.50 Watts

100MB/s eide drives.

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 8.60 Watts
Idle 8.10 Watts
Standby 1.10 Watts
Sleep 1.00 Watts

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=41&language=en

And from Seagate.

Typical Current (12VDC +/- 5%) 0.433 amps
Startup Current (12VDC +/- 5%) 2.8 amps
Typical Current (5VDC +/- 5%) 0.401 amps
Startup Current (5VDC +/- 5%) 0.841 amps
Power
Seek Power (typ) 12.4 watts
Read/Write Power (typ) 12.8 watts
Idle Power (typ) 7.2 watts

None of those are 10W or the 20-25W max in spades.

It seems their startup power would be about 38W (2.8*12)+(.8*5).
This is the standard Baracuda drive family. So it seems like Dot
may be a little low with only 20-25W.

http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/enterprise/tech/1,1084,701,00.html

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

I never agreed or disagreed with either of you.

You did make that silly claim about the cat and pigeons.

I just pointed out that it would be interesting to throw those benchmark results into
the argument. They are done by a team of people likely to have more expertise on the
matter than anyone in this argument.

It aint about expertise, just bothering to measure it.

Here are some more benchmark results out there which you can use:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/storage/hddpower.html

Which dumps on Dorothy's numbers too, like I said.

And suffers from the problem that datasheets always
have, the datasheet numbers are worst case numbers.

 

[Rod Speed]

o Go to any of the HD maker websites
o Download the manufacturers specification
o Read it.

Datasheet numbers are worst case numbers and
STILL most arent 10W with current desktop drives.

What makes a lot more sense is
http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html
which shows nothing like what you claimed.

In spades with the max number.

Stick an ammeter on a current Barracuda & older Barracuda.

There might just be a few more drives around than those.

Do not use the 2A fused range during startup obviously.

PCs have a range of wattage draw re idle/loaded...
o Base end office Cel2.0, integrated graphics, 1 HD, 1 optical
o idle -- 85W with 17" TFT, 95W with 19" TFT
o load -- 120W for 17" TFT, 130W with 19" TFT

Irrelevant to that bit about DVD-R/RAM/CDR writers.

You really are a troll.

You really are a pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.

HD spec of 8-17W can not be applied to cooling needs...

Depends entirely on the case design.

o 8-17W is not distributed evenly over the whole drive
---- a HD is Actuator, Spindle Assembly, PCB Components

Irrelevant to your silly claim about 30W

o 8-17W may be focused in specific components
---- with specific maximum operating temps
---- requiring specific linear feet per min of airflow

Irrelevant to your silly claim about 30W

o Providing cooling for 8-17W ignores local needs
---- thermal shadowing by other components
---- thermal shadowing by case design & HD positioning

Irrelevant to your silly claim about 30W

Stick 2x 10,000rpm HD against one another in a drive cage.

Only the stupid do something as stupid.

Provide sufficient cooling for 2x 8-17W drives.

Or dont have them adjacent, stupid.

I will provide the data recovery firm name to use...

I'm not stupid enough to need them.

o Motor-IC overheats from lack of linear-feet-per-min airflow
o Motor-IC dumps heat into surroundings, motor/spindle heat
o Motor-spindle dumps heat into FDB accelerating aging
o FDB aging causes higher current draw (startup & continuous)
---- S.M.A.R.T. data measures startup Ima &/or startup Tsecs
o Higher current draw heats motor/spindle & Motor-IC
---- Reinforcing System Loop of increasing thermal dissipation

Only in that terminally stupid config.

Same thing happens more slowly with HDs anyway - hence the
older a HD the higher the startup current & higher op current.

Add another HD because the old one is too small, fit them too
close & you can accelerate the demise of the old one by temps.

Only the stupid do things that stupidly.

I would assume 30W re cooling needs for 10k-rpm HDs.

You can assume anything you like. Anyone
with a clue doesnt use such a stupid config.

You can assume what you wish.

I dont assume, I measure, thanks.

???

Its a very simple sentence, even you should be able to manage it.

Yes but you have to assume it at SOME point re 1) cooling 2) PSU.
Nope.


Ah now I see. Intel tend to be worst case from a thermal perspective.

Wrong, as always.

 

[John Doe]

Rod Speed wrote:

You really are a troll.

Bingo.

 

[John Doe]

Troll


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From: "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa gmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,alt.engineering.electrical
Subject: Re: Typical mains power for mid-range PC?
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:46:27 +1000
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Cuzman <cuzNOSPAM supanet.com> wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Select the drop-down menu. Choose each of the bottom four tests and sort. The second
resulting table lists the numbers clearer.

That should put the cat among the pigeons.

Nope, even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out
that the idle power with commonly used drives is nothing like 10W.

In spades with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max.

 

[Rod Speed]

****wit.

Troll


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From: "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,alt.engineering.electrical
Subject: Re: Typical mains power for mid-range PC?
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Nope, even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out
that the idle power with commonly used drives is nothing like 10W.

In spades with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max.

 

[Rod Speed]

Bingo.

You wouldnt know what a troll was if it had its fangs in your lard arse, child.

 

[Teh White Recluse]

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:05:04 GMT, in
alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd John Doe <[email protected]>
wrote:
Troll

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|Subject: Re: Typical mains power for mid-range PC?
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|Troll
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|From: "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa gmail.com>
|Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,alt.engineering.electrical
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|
|Cuzman <cuzNOSPAM supanet.com> wrote
|> Rod Speed wrote
|>> John Jordan <junk jaj22.org.uk> wrote
|>>> Rod Speed wrote
|>>>> John Jordan <junk jaj22.org.uk> wrote
|
|>>>>> idle: 10W
|
|>>>> Thats nothing like typical for 7200 rpm drives.
|
|>>>>> load: 24W
|
|>>>> And neither is that.
|
|>>> It's an extremely common drive (at least in the UK),
|
|>> Most current drives dont idle at 10W.
|
|> Select the drop-down menu. Choose each of the bottom four tests and sort. The second
|> resulting table lists the numbers clearer.
|
|> http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html
|
|> That should put the cat among the pigeons.
|
|Nope, even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out
|that the idle power with commonly used drives is nothing like 10W.
|
|In spades with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max.
|
|
|

 

[Johannes]

You wouldnt know what a troll was if it had its fangs in your lard arse, child.

You certainly fit the picture.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

You certainly fit the picture.

ALL I did was point out that Dorothy overstated the power use of hard
drives and then desperately attempted to bullshit her way out of predicament
with the mindlessly silly crap about 10,000 rpm drives in spades.

If you're actually so stupid that you havent even noticed that
that gutless wonder desperately cowering behind 'John Doe'
starts shrieking 'troll' whenever anyone rubs his nose in the basics...

 

[Johannes]

ALL I did was point out that Dorothy overstated the power use of hard
drives and then desperately attempted to bullshit her way out of predicament
with the mindlessly silly crap about 10,000 rpm drives in spades.

If you're actually so stupid that you havent even noticed that
that gutless wonder desperately cowering behind 'John Doe'
starts shrieking 'troll' whenever anyone rubs his nose in the basics...

Your choice of language gives you away. This is a serious technical ng, not
a kindergarten. Anyone can intervene and make correction to posts, but you
chose to do it in an offensive way; that makes you a troll.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Your choice of language gives you away.

Only mindlessly superficial fools consider the language.

This is a serious technical ng, not a kindergarten.

So stupid it hasnt actually noticed that that sort
of language is very common outside kindergartens.

Anyone can intervene and make correction to
posts, but you chose to do it in an offensive way;

No I didnt with the original comment about Dorothy's numbers for hard
drives, or even when she asked which numbers I was commenting on.

that makes you a troll.

You wouldnt know what a troll was if it had its fangs in your lard arse, child.

 

[kony]

Typical Current (12VDC +/- 5%) 0.433 amps
Startup Current (12VDC +/- 5%) 2.8 amps
Typical Current (5VDC +/- 5%) 0.401 amps
Startup Current (5VDC +/- 5%) 0.841 amps
Power
Seek Power (typ) 12.4 watts
Read/Write Power (typ) 12.8 watts
Idle Power (typ) 7.2 watts


It seems their startup power would be about 38W (2.8*12)+(.8*5). This is
the standard Baracuda drive family. So it seems like Dot may be a little
low with only 20-25W.

If only one number is mentioned for the purposes of
determinging system power as a power conservation measure,
the applicable number would be typical, not peak current.

The appropriate numbers above for the purpose of OP's thread
are .43A @ 12V and .40A @ 5V.
That's 7.16W

Other drives may have similar figures but to finding a
meaningful number we'd first have to know the specific
application of the data. So far we only have a vague
inquiry about power in general and have gone off on a
tangent.