The *Question* remains

[Colin Barnhorst]

I understand that the retail Upgrade Edition dvd's will boot a computer. Is
it the case that the retail Upgrade Edition Setup cannot be started by
booting with the dvd but must be run in install-in-place mode only?

Hello,
The Volume License upgrade disk will not be bootable.
The Retail Upgrade disk will be bootable. ( You will be able to boot from
the disk to run repairs)
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
<Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:12:17 -0800
<From: "Dr. Heywood Floyd" <[email protected]>
<User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909)
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<Subject: Re: The *Question* remains
<References: <uBrw#[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
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<Thanks Colin and Chris. Please - no disrespect intended. You are,
<both, excellent participants in this News Group.
<
<However - it took only one reply to the OP for 'speculation' to be
<offered and the reply to that one changed the subject entirely.
<
<I assure the answer to the OP is we are NOT going to get an answer from
<anyone that knows certain and is willing to stake their, and
<Microsoft's, reputation on an honest answer.
<
<
<
<Colin Barnhorst wrote:
<> I don't know that the concern is piracy as much as casual copying.
That
is
<> the reuse of the XP license (or continued use) after using it to
qualify
for
<> upgrade pricing.
<>
in
<> message <>> Everything I have seen says that the upgrade disk will NOT be
bootable.
<>> You will need to start the upgrade process inside an existing windows
<>> install as the installer will do a Genuine check to make sure you
aren't
<>> trying to upgrade from a pirated copy of Windows.
<>>
<>> Chris
<>>
<>> <>>> After days of banter, bank and forth, on the subject of Vista
*Upgrade*
<>>> Disks being bootable, or not, the question remains - unanswered.
<>>>
<>>> Is/will the commercial, consumer purchased post Jan 30, 07, *upgrade*
<>>> (that's U P G R A D E - for those of you that want to discuss
others)
<>>> be a bootable disk?
<>>>
<>>> The question *is NOT* asked about Vista RTM
<>>> The question *is NOT* asked about XP
<>>> The question *is NOT* asking for speculation or opinion
<>
<>
<

 

[John Barnes]

A distinction without a difference

But at least you are giving a reason that relates to how Vista upgrading
works, not legacy Windows. MS really changed how Windows is now
installed.

 

[xfile]

What I am saying is that folks should not blindly cling to the urban

legends left over from past experiences with previous versions of Windows
and judge when to upgrade and when not to based on bad results they got
when upgrading to XP.

Well said

 

[Robert Moir]

A distinction without a difference

Not really. Having nothing to do with Windows Vista because you tried
Windows 1.0 once and it crashed is irrational. Having nothing to do with
Windows Vista because Windows Vista crashes is entirely sensible.

 

[John Barnes]

Not the point. Aunt Minnie isn't going to care if her messed-up unusable
Vista system used the XP update approach or the Vista update approach.

 

[Darrell Gorter[MSFT]]

Hello Colin,
That is correct. When you boot to the dvd and start setup, after entering
the product key, you will be told to start setup from within the OS.
You should see the following message displayed:
"To use the product key you entered, start the installation from your
existing version of Windows."
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Now we're cooking, Darrell. This is great.

If the user has XP on C: and launches Vista Upgrade Setup from the desktop
can the user select any other volume than C: for the target on which to
install Vista?

 

[John Barnes]

Are you asking if the upgrade install can go on another volume (thus leaving
XP on C untouched), or if the upgrade version clean install can go on
another volume (which Darrell has already answered)?

Now we're cooking, Darrell. This is great.

If the user has XP on C: and launches Vista Upgrade Setup from the desktop
can the user select any other volume than C: for the target on which to
install Vista?

Hello Colin,
That is correct. When you boot to the dvd and start setup, after
entering
the product key, you will be told to start setup from within the OS.
You should see the following message displayed:
"To use the product key you entered, start the installation from your
existing version of Windows."
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

 

[David Wilkinson]

Now we're cooking, Darrell. This is great.

Colin:

You think so? I think it sucks. The upgrade DVD is bootable (perhaps it
is the same as the full DVD), but as soon as you enter the (upgrade)
Product ID, it becomes effectively unbootable.

In that case, this is every bit as bad as everyone has been saying.

David Wilkinson

 

[Guest]

Darrell, As silly as that sounds, I'll accept your statement.

So, the question STILL remains: How do I install Vista 64-bit using the
upgrade product from a qualifying OS such as XP-32? Or is this a hole in the
"Technology Guarrantee".

 

[Mike]

Colin:

You think so? I think it sucks. The upgrade DVD is bootable (perhaps it is
the same as the full DVD), but as soon as you enter the (upgrade) Product
ID, it becomes effectively unbootable.

That's a good trick! Exactly how can entering a code render a bootable,
non-writeable DVD unbootable?

Mike

 

[David Wilkinson]

That's a good trick! Exactly how can entering a code render a
bootable, non-writeable DVD unbootable?

Mike:

What I meant was: for the purpose of installation, it might as well be
non-bootable. But I guess the bootability does allow use of the disk for
repair, so it is not quite as bad as we feared. Pretty bad though, IMHO.

David Wilkinson

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

It doesn't. If you boot with the dvd and click Install Now you will be
asked for the product key. If it is a full edition pk you are off and
running. If it is an Upgrade pk, you will instructed to run setup from the
desktop of your present Windows and Setup will exit.

When you are up in XP and insert the dvd you choose Install Now from the
splash screen, enter the Upgrade pk and off you go.

 

[Mike]

It doesn't. If you boot with the dvd and click Install Now you will be
asked for the product key. If it is a full edition pk you are off and
running. If it is an Upgrade pk, you will instructed to run setup from
the desktop of your present Windows and Setup will exit.

Well, that's what I figured. I just wanted to be sure.

Mike

 

[Dr. Heywood Floyd]

Yes - that is one of the questions?

I am very much interested in the answer.

Are you asking if the upgrade install can go on another volume (thus
leaving XP on C untouched),

<SNIP>

 

[Dr. Heywood Floyd]

There have been many more than enough threads on this subject, and
orders of magnitude more posts, and we still have no definitive answer.

Those from MSFT, and those that have contacts at MSFT, have, long ago,
had the time to give us such an answer. The fact that we are getting
only partial answers and that those answers only lead to more questions
is . . . troubling, to say the least.

My bet is they either don't know themselves and/or they don't want to say.

Darrell, As silly as that sounds, I'll accept your statement.

So, the question STILL remains: How do I install Vista 64-bit using the
upgrade product from a qualifying OS such as XP-32? Or is this a hole in the
"Technology Guarrantee".

Hello Colin,
That is correct. When you boot to the dvd and start setup, after entering
the product key, you will be told to start setup from within the OS.
You should see the following message displayed:
"To use the product key you entered, start the installation from your
existing version of Windows."
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

That hasn't been my experience in the past. Folks may be getting
clarification themselves before answering us. That can take a little time,
but it will come.

There have been many more than enough threads on this subject, and orders
of magnitude more posts, and we still have no definitive answer.

Those from MSFT, and those that have contacts at MSFT, have, long ago, had
the time to give us such an answer. The fact that we are getting only
partial answers and that those answers only lead to more questions is .
. . troubling, to say the least.

My bet is they either don't know themselves and/or they don't want to say.

Darrell, As silly as that sounds, I'll accept your statement.

So, the question STILL remains: How do I install Vista 64-bit using the
upgrade product from a qualifying OS such as XP-32? Or is this a hole in
the "Technology Guarrantee".

Hello Colin,
That is correct. When you boot to the dvd and start setup, after
entering the product key, you will be told to start setup from within
the OS.
You should see the following message displayed:
"To use the product key you entered, start the installation from your
existing version of Windows."
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

 

[William]

How does a DVD become unbootable?

Now we're cooking, Darrell. This is great.

Colin:

You think so? I think it sucks. The upgrade DVD is bootable (perhaps it
is the same as the full DVD), but as soon as you enter the (upgrade)
Product ID, it becomes effectively unbootable.

In that case, this is every bit as bad as everyone has been saying.

David Wilkinson

 

[William]

Can you install without a PK and then provide the key after the install?

It doesn't. If you boot with the dvd and click Install Now you will be
asked for the product key. If it is a full edition pk you are off and
running. If it is an Upgrade pk, you will instructed to run setup from the
desktop of your present Windows and Setup will exit.

When you are up in XP and insert the dvd you choose Install Now from the
splash screen, enter the Upgrade pk and off you go.

 

[Guest]

Colin, I'm with Dr. Heywood here. It is hard to believe that the upgrade
scenarios weren't studied in excruciating detail within Microsoft. The
inability to answer these specific questions is most worrying, not to mention
the confusing incorrect info that takes us down the wrong path for a while.
The answers to these questions should be readily available in Redmond.

Microsoft isn't making this up as they go along. (Although rumors of late
decisions such as no 64-bit in the package make me wonder about that too!).

It's sometimes easy to forget that the whole purpose of an upgrade offering
is to reward the loyal former user. And the upgrade package and its mechanism
is an automated way to avoid the hassle of rebate coupons and fulfillment
house processing delays.

In the case of Vista it's sounding more like a punitive measure than a reward!

That hasn't been my experience in the past. Folks may be getting
clarification themselves before answering us. That can take a little time,
but it will come.

There have been many more than enough threads on this subject, and orders
of magnitude more posts, and we still have no definitive answer.

Those from MSFT, and those that have contacts at MSFT, have, long ago, had
the time to give us such an answer. The fact that we are getting only
partial answers and that those answers only lead to more questions is .
. . troubling, to say the least.

My bet is they either don't know themselves and/or they don't want to say.

Darrell, As silly as that sounds, I'll accept your statement.

So, the question STILL remains: How do I install Vista 64-bit using the
upgrade product from a qualifying OS such as XP-32? Or is this a hole in
the "Technology Guarrantee".

:

Hello Colin,
That is correct. When you boot to the dvd and start setup, after
entering the product key, you will be told to start setup from within
the OS.
You should see the following message displayed:
"To use the product key you entered, start the installation from your
existing version of Windows."
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights