The future of PCs

Jerry McBride · Jul 4, 2005

Tim said:
So I assume then that all of your apps are 64 bit as well? Any optimized
for multi-core processing?

Yes.

--

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FSF Associate Member number 2340 since 05/20/2004
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Wes Newell · Jul 4, 2005

My question pertained to the programs YOU use, chief. I said "YOUR APPS".
With your reading comprehension I would be dreaming to expect you to
understand the question.

Well, my reading comprehension must be better than yours because I already
told you that I didn't have a multi core cpu or a muti cpu board. That
being the case, why don't you try and guess how many programs I run
multicore.

Wes Newell · Jul 4, 2005

Point taken. What's the availability of commercial 3D games for Linux? How
does it compare to Windows game availability?

With Windows98, I think it came with about 4 or 5 simple games like
freecell, etc. No 3d games that I recall. You had to buy them seperately.
With linux my distro came with these as a minimum. Some are 3d, some
aren't and don't even ask. I'm not much of a game player.

menu "Games" /usr/share/icons/mini/amusement_section.png {
menu "Arcade" /usr/share/icons/mini/arcade_section.png {
prog "AirStrike" /usr/share/icons/mini/airstrike.png /usr/games/airstrike
prog "ArmageTron" /usr/share/icons/mini/armagetron.png /usr/games/armagetron
prog "Chromium" /usr/share/icons/mini/chromium.png /usr/games/chromium
prog "Circus Linux!" /usr/share/icons/mini/circuslinux.png /usr/games/circuslinux
prog "Crack Attack! - Create Server" /usr/share/icons/mini/crack-attack.png /usr/games/crack-attack-create-server
prog "Crack Attack! - Join Server" /usr/share/icons/mini/crack-attack.png /usr/games/crack-attack-join-server
prog "Crack Attack! - Solo" /usr/share/icons/mini/crack-attack.png /usr/games/crack-attack-solo
prog "Digger" /usr/share/icons/mini/digger.png /usr/games/digger /A
prog "Frozen-Bubble" /usr/share/icons/mini/frozen-bubble.png /usr/games/frozen-bubble
prog "GNOME Robots" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-gnobots.png /usr/bin/gnobots2
prog "GNOME Stones" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-stones.png /usr/bin/gnome-stones
prog "Gnibbles" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-nibbles.png /usr/bin/gnibbles
prog "Gnometris" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-gtetris.png /usr/bin/gnometris
prog "KAsteroids" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kasteroids.png kasteroids
prog "KBounce" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kbounce.png kbounce
prog "KFoulEggs" /usr/share/icons/mini/arcade_section.png kfouleggs
prog "KGoldrunner" /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/kgoldrunner.png kgoldrunner
prog "KSirtet" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/ksirtet.png ksirtet
prog "KSmileTris" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/ksmiletris.png ksmiletris
prog "KSnakeRace" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/ksnake.png ksnake
prog "KSpaceDuel" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kspaceduel.png kspaceduel
prog "KTron" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/ktron.png ktron
prog "Klickety" /usr/share/icons/mini/klickety.png klickety
prog "Kolf" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kolf.png kolf
prog "LBreakout 2" /usr/share/icons/mini/lbreakout2.png /usr/games/lbreakout2
prog "Maelstrom" /usr/share/icons/mini/Maelstrom.png /usr/games/Maelstrom
}
menu "Boards" /usr/share/icons/mini/boards_section.png {
prog "Atlantik" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/atlantik.png atlantik
prog "Gataxx" /usr/share/icons/mini/gataxx.png /usr/bin/gataxx
prog "Glines" /usr/share/icons/mini/glines.png /usr/bin/glines
prog "Gnect" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnect-icon.png /usr/bin/gnect
prog "Iagno" /usr/share/icons/mini/iagno.png /usr/bin/iagno
prog "KBackgammon" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kbackgammon.png kbackgammon
prog "KBattleship" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kbattleship.png kbattleship
prog "KBlackBox" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kblackbox.png kblackbox
prog "KMahjongg" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kmahjongg.png kmahjongg
prog "KReversi" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kreversi.png kreversi
prog "KWin4" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kwin4.png kwin4
prog "Kenolaba" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kenolaba.png kenolaba
prog "Shisen-Sho" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kshisen.png kshisen
}
menu "Cards" /usr/share/icons/mini/cards_section.png {
prog "AisleRiot" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-aisleriot.png /usr/bin/sol
prog "Blackjack" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-blackjack.png /usr/bin/blackjack
prog "KPoker" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kpoker.png kpoker
prog "Lieutnant Skat" /usr/share/icons/locolor/16x16/apps/lskat.png lskat
prog "Patience" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kpat.png kpat
prog "Potato Guy" - ktuberling
prog "PySOL" /usr/share/icons/mini/cards_section.png /usr/games/pysol
}
menu "Other" /usr/share/icons/mini/other_amusement.png {
prog "GTali" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-gtali.png /usr/bin/gtali
prog "Same GNOME" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-gsame.png /usr/bin/same-gnome
}
menu "Puzzles" /usr/share/icons/mini/puzzle_section.png {
prog "GNOME Mahjongg" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-mahjongg.png /usr/bin/mahjongg
prog "GNOME Mines" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-gnomine.png /usr/bin/gnomine
prog "GNOME Tetravex" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnome-gnotravex.png /usr/bin/gnotravex
prog "Gnotski" /usr/share/icons/mini/gnotski-icon.png /usr/bin/gnotski
}
menu "Sports" /usr/share/icons/mini/sport_section.png {
prog "Cannon Smash" /usr/share/icons/mini/csmash.png /usr/bin/csmash
prog "Tuxracer" /usr/share/icons/mini/tuxracer.png soundwrapper /usr/games/tuxracer
}
menu "Strategy" /usr/share/icons/mini/strategy_section.png {
prog "KAtomic" - katomic
prog "KJumpingCube" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kjumpingcube.png kjumpingcube
prog "KMines" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/kmines.png kmines
prog "KSokoban" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/ksokoban.png ksokoban
prog "Kolor Lines" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/klines.png klines
prog "Konquest" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/konquest.png konquest
prog "SameGame" /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/ksame.png ksame
}

And many others are available. You can even run some windows games in
Linux and they actually run faster. But that's for someone that does it to
tell you about. Something about having a windows and game version already
installed.

Now, is there some other way you want to try and put Linux down as that
seems to be your objective rather than actually get reasonable answers.

Tim · Jul 4, 2005

Well, my reading comprehension must be better than yours because I already
told you that I didn't have a multi core cpu or a muti cpu board.

Let's review yet again -. you confused "your apps" to mean every Linux app
in the world. So I'm addressing your "you've got to be kidding" comment.
Please try to follow a thread. Since I didn't know at the time I asked, if
you did, or did not have multicore, your response is not only clueless but
ignorant too.

BTW, what's with the hostility? Is Linux a religion to you? If you're some
sort of Linux high priest please bear in mind that I only consider it an
operating system. I don't worship any of them, and I never criticized any of
them, so your attitude is puzzling to say the least.

If I accidentally crossposted to "alt.fanatic.linux," I apologize I thought
it was "alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64" Are they one and the same?

That being the case, why don't you try and guess how many programs I run
multicore.

That being the case why don't you just say "I don't know" next time and save
us both a lot of time.

Tim · Jul 4, 2005

And many others are available. You can even run some windows games in
Linux and they actually run faster. But that's for someone that does it to
tell you about. Something about having a windows and game version already
installed.

Thanks

Now, is there some other way you want to try and put Linux down as that
seems to be your objective rather than actually get reasonable answers.

Please try to point out, ONCE where I put Linux down. I came here to ask
questions, I have no agenda and I'm not implying anything. Unlike yourself,
when I don't know about something I ask about it, not preemptively criticize
it. My questions are to be taken as face value. But while we're on the
subject, we're talking about OSs here, not family, religion, or politics.
Who cares if someone bashes them? I'm not offended by your XP comments, I
only suggest that you try something before criticizing it.

It's been said that the only thing Microsoft could build, that doesn't suck,
is a vacuum cleaner - and I find that joke hilarious. See? I just bashed
Microsoft. So relax, step away from the keyboard and get outside once in a
while.

Bill · Jul 4, 2005

<snip>
If I accidentally crossposted to "alt.fanatic.linux," I apologize I thought
it was "alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64" Are they one and the same?

<snip>

Then why don't you ask your software questions in a software group
instead of a hardware group?

Bill

Ed Light · Jul 4, 2005

Tim -- maybe just let them dry up.

--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

joe doe · Jul 4, 2005

64 bit architecture, multiple cores, it's all wonderful stuff. But as
everyone probably knows, without a mainstream 64bit OS with solid drivers,
without 64bit apps optimized for multithreading, it's all a bit premature. I
know that this technology has its advantages now but when will it be fully
utilized? Does anyone care to predict how long until software/OS developers
make the complete transition? Will Longhorn be 64bit by default or will
there be a special 64bit version? (the way XP Pro is just getting now) All
thoughts appreciated.

LOL. Microsoft has to put in all the hooks for Intel's new Big
Brother technology dual core processors. When they're done with that,
they'll let you know.

http://www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4915

You think this stuff is easy ?

Dave · Jul 4, 2005

No, you asked some really dumb questions. If Wes does not have more than
one core on hi com system, why would he be concerned with aps being
multi-threaded?

Here is a suggestion, think of some types of software you like to run, go to
a linux group/usenet area and questions there.

As a very rough rule, server stuff may be mutlti-threaded as may heavy duty
graphics rendering progs.

Until you know what you want to do with your system, it is really pointless
you asking what app is multi core enabled as you will get a whole lot of
useless information.

Dave

Dave · Jul 4, 2005

Ed,

Leave in a bit of the post that you are replying to so your replies make
sense.

Your last reply was very cryptic.

Cryptic - How about this? :-)

(NOT a personal attack on you, just
something silly)

Head man who is not the mistress who puts food in traps. (1 word)

alternate question

Person (can be a member of a team) who argues in front of a crowd. (1 word)

I think it should be solvable in less than 10 mins.

Dave

Ed Light · Jul 5, 2005

Dave said:
Ed,

Leave in a bit of the post that you are replying to so your replies make
sense.

It was just to Tim, who will know.

--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

Flint · Jul 5, 2005

Tim said:
64 bit architecture, multiple cores, it's all wonderful stuff. But as
everyone probably knows, without a mainstream 64bit OS with solid drivers,
without 64bit apps optimized for multithreading, it's all a bit premature. I
know that this technology has its advantages now but when will it be fully
utilized? Does anyone care to predict how long until software/OS developers
make the complete transition?

I suspect that "complete transistion" will probably occur about 3-4
years from now.

-Rick

John Saunders · Jul 5, 2005

a said:
so what Linux 64 bit programs do you use and why?

I am kind of fond of vim (edits files real good)
and gcc (compiles the software I write real good)
and MythTV for my digital TV card. Although I am
forced to work with Windows at work, I don't find
a need for it at home.

Chris Salter · Jul 5, 2005

Ed said:
It was just to Tim, who will know.

Then use email?

Dave · Jul 5, 2005

Ed Light said:
It was just to Tim, who will know.

ROFLMAO

Point taken!

Dave

Dave · Jul 5, 2005

Chris Salter said:
Then use email?

Have you read Tim's posts?

Dave

Jerry McBride · Jul 6, 2005

Tim said:
64 bit architecture, multiple cores, it's all wonderful stuff. But as
everyone probably knows, without a mainstream 64bit OS with solid drivers,
without 64bit apps optimized for multithreading, it's all a bit premature.
I know that this technology has its advantages now but when will it be
fully
utilized? Does anyone care to predict how long until software/OS
developers
make the complete transition? Will Longhorn be 64bit by default or will
there be a special 64bit version? (the way XP Pro is just getting now)
All thoughts appreciated.

You know... I had a dream about this last night. Well... not actually a
sleeping dream.... more like the kind that you get just before you slip off
to slumber land.

I was thinking about 64bit chips and amd and intel doing their very best to
sell themselves and make market share... the future is really bright for
computer enthusiasts as well as professionals. Then it occurred to me that
maybe x86 won't be the future that everyone is dreaming of. Perhaps even,
x86 will become a small time player in a much larger future market...

When I got up today, I spent a little time googling on something I heard
about a few days ago. A word... CELL. As it turned out, what a word indeed.

The way I see it, IBM and SONY with the Cell processor, could be poised to
take over the pc market. Google for the Cell processor specs and boy...
it's one fast chip. Can you say 2 Tflops???? An IBM paper even mentioned
that the Cell will be cheaper than current x86 hardware too. Top that off
with the announcement that Sony is kicking around the idea that Linux will
be included or at least offered for it's upcoming Play Station 3. And that
Sonly considers it's new game console a SUPER COMPUTER.Then there's the IBM
decision to include the Cell patch set in the 2.6.13 linux kernel... Wow,
this is awesome.

Think about it... the worlds fastest desktop chip, running linux and costing
less than current x86. What an amazing turn of events and the best part is,
it's real... not a dream. And my personal favorite thing is this...
MicroSoft has nothing to do with it... :') Now that's a dream come true.

--

******************************************************************************
Registered Linux User Number 185956
FSF Associate Member number 2340 since 05/20/2004
Join me in chat at #linux-users on irc.freenode.net
Buy an Xbox for $149.00, run linux on it and Microsoft loses $150.00!
7:38pm up 6 days, 20 min, 2 users, load average: 0.10, 0.13, 0.09

lone_gunmen · Jul 9, 2005

When I got up today, I spent a little time googling on something I heard
about a few days ago. A word... CELL. As it turned out, what a word indeed.

The way I see it, IBM and SONY with the Cell processor, could be poised to
take over the pc market. Google for the Cell processor specs and boy...
it's one fast chip. Can you say 2 Tflops???? An IBM paper even mentioned
that the Cell will be cheaper than current x86 hardware too. Top that off
with the announcement that Sony is kicking around the idea that Linux will
be included or at least offered for it's upcoming Play Station 3. And that
Sonly considers it's new game console a SUPER COMPUTER.Then there's the IBM
decision to include the Cell patch set in the 2.6.13 linux kernel... Wow,
this is awesome.

Think about it... the worlds fastest desktop chip, running linux and costing
less than current x86. What an amazing turn of events and the best part is,
it's real... not a dream. And my personal favorite thing is this...
MicroSoft has nothing to do with it... :') Now that's a dream come true.

I expect the big brother technology planned for Cell chips will make
Intel's dual core tech look like small dreams indeed

Tim · Jul 9, 2005

Then why don't you ask your software questions in a software group
instead of a hardware group?

LOL I see your point. But since my original post pertains to both hardware
and software, a software group could just as easily say "then why don't you
ask your hardware questions in a hardware group instead of a software
group?" ;-)

Tim · Jul 9, 2005

Dave said:
If Wes does not have more than
one core on hi com system, why would he be concerned with aps being
multi-threaded?

He wouldn't be of course. But if you follow the thread you'll see that I
didn't know how many cores he had that at the time I asked about it. Once
he told me that, he went on to say that "I've got to be kidding" because he
misunderstood my question to pertain to the multicore abilities of every
Linux program in the world. Anything further just addessed that mistake
specifically.

You asked some really dumb questions.

And you make some really dumb observations. :-)

Here is a suggestion, think of some types of software you like to run, go
to a linux group/usenet area and questions there.

If you look at my original post you'll see that I never asked specifically
about Linux. I was just wondering about the time it will take the rest of
the industry (software/OS) to catch up with the latest CPU technologies. I
give AMD a lot of credit for forging ahead with their hardware advancements,
I hope for their sake that all of it gets adopted in the mainstream.

As a very rough rule, server stuff may be mutlti-threaded as may heavy
duty graphics rendering progs.

Thanks, but I was never concerned about multicore support specifically. As
stated in my original post I'm just intrigued by the latest CPU technologies
and wondering how much of it will be embraced by OS/software developers in
general and when. Just pondering.

Until you know what you want to do with your system, it is really
pointless
you asking what app is multi core enabled as you will get a whole lot of
useless information.

Of course, but I was never concerned about which apps, specifically, are
multicore. If anything I'm just wondering about future trends in software
given all the latest advancements in CPUs (one of which being multicore). As
an example, will multicore support become more commonplace now that silicon
is reaching its clock-speed limit? Just looking for opinions.

The future of PCs

Jerry McBride

Wes Newell

Wes Newell

Tim

Tim

Bill

Ed Light

joe doe

Dave

Dave

Ed Light

Flint

John Saunders

Chris Salter

Dave

Dave

Jerry McBride

lone_gunmen

Tim

Tim