John Barnett MVP said:
Ok Chad, I'm not going through the whole of your post because it is far
too long, slightly repetitive and, frankly, I don't have time.
When using the option of right clicking on Computer in the start menu
there is no backup option in Vista SP2. If I click on it 'til I'm blue in
the face it still won't appear. As for Control Panel, Backup and Restore
also has no feature to make a startup rescue disk. I can backup using
Complete PC Backup etc or I can 'repair windows using system restore and
create a system restore point' but no option to create a startup repair
disk.
System32 folder does, as you say, contain the 'recdisc.exe' file but it
neither works normally or elevated. As for changing permissions you can
forget it because everything is grayed out and cannot be altered. I am
logged on administrator.
As for Windows 7 I am well aware that the facility to create the startup
rescue disk is available. I also have a CD with actually startup rescue
facility on (as does each retail copy of Vista/Windows 7)
I'm not disputing that you can access system restore from the repair
options. My interpretation of the OP's questions is to create a complete
system restore DVD. To do this you (my interpretation again) need to be
able to 'restore' your PC to its original state assuming you could not
gain access to your system. Using system restore 'assumes' (a) that system
restore is enabled (mine isn't and never has been) and (b) system restore
has a restore point available 'prior' to your problem. Everyone knows that
system restore is notoriously unreliable. It is for this reason that I
always suggest Acronis True Image and always advise users to create a
complete image of the hard drive and, as this image can be burnt to a
bootable set of DVDs it fulfills the OP's requirements because it does
just that 'completely restores the system.'
I'm not here to argue the pro's and con's of Microsoft I am, and was,
simply stating my opinion. Whether the OP takes my advise, yours or
someone else's is completely up to him/her.
--
--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience
Web:
http://www.winuser.co.uk
Web:
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web:
http://vistasupport.mvps.org
Web:
http://www.silversurfer-guide.com
Hi John--
Since I last posted to you, I've gone into Starbucks, Borders, and Barnes
and Noble to get a sampling (it wasn't a regression tested double blind
multicentered trial--I just did it when I had time-- and borrowed several
people's boxes for a minute. I've been able to get recdisc.exe to work by
tweaking permissions. None of the people who had expensive boxes knew what
System 32 was, but all of them told me they hoped there was a way to fix
their Vista if they had a blue screen and couldn't boot. None of them knew
exactly how they would get it done.
We aren't talking a feature here like Aero Snap, Aero Peak, or the one that
makes me smile every time Aero Shake, or something that will change the pic
on your start menu or change your windows to red trim or green trim and I
know you appreciate that. We're talking the ways to CPR Vista. If you
have a fire extinguisher in your house, or something you need in a hurry
for important reasons, I bet you don't hide it in the corner in a basement,
in a remote corner of an attic, or where you think no one else can find it.
So I wonder why since Steve Sinofsky was running Windows when SP1 released,
and Bill Gates who has been seen complaining in emails that went public
about not being able to find things in Vista or XP signed off on putting it
there. Jim Allchin may not have left either when that decision was made,
and it sure doesn't sound like the Allchin whose blogs I read towards the
beginning of Vista RTM.
I remember situations like this as well:
http://news.cnet.com/2009-1016_3-6153922.html
REDMOND, Wash.--Sitting behind a one-way mirror, a white-haired man
struggles to access a shared music library within Windows Vista.
"I'm lost," he says. "I'm in trouble here."
On the other side of the glass, several Microsoft executives try to talk him
through the experience. Thousands of people have gone through similar tests
inside Microsoft's usability lab. But on this day, February 1, 2006, the
person inside Building 28 isn't just some random beta tester. It's Windows
boss Jim Allchin
And at that time, Allchin had plenty to grouse about. Windows Vista had been
in testing for many months. The company had already drastically reshaped the
operating system to try to get Vista onto store shelves by the holidays, but
by Microsoft's own account there were still lots of bugs. While the latest
versions of Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer that Allchin put
through their paces had improved since his last trip to the labs, other
parts of Vista were still driving him crazy.
Fast-forward nearly 12 months. Although Microsoft couldn't get through 2006
without being forced to delay Vista once again, by the start of 2007--after
five years in development and endless feedback from thousands of
testers--the majority of Allchin's gripes had finally been addressed.
___________________________________________________
I don't have Vista SP2 in front of me, and I have a lot of Vista DVDs but I
don't have any on any boxes anymore. I do know that these 4 locations are
in Windows 7 and they all work.
I don't think the OP made it easy for us to understand a) what he really
wanted b) what he wants to do--or accurately he didn't make it crystal clear
***to me.*** I tried to help him.
I always value your opinion. I had trouble understanding what you meant by
System Restore (I thought basically the chance to use a restore point and
since the OP was a bit nebulous (to me anyway) I'm not sure what he was
asking for. Usually on this group, when people mention system restore,
startup repair, terms like I can't boot, lost my Vista, don't see my OS,
they are in a bit of a jam, and need help getting out of it.
I've noted over the last 3 years that because the Vista Backup and Restore
team who has now moved their focus to Win 7 now, didn't find it practical to
back port, that when someone on a dual or multi-boot went to the other boot,
they lost restore points. There were hundreds of discussions on this when
the Vista public groups started, and no doubt you helped in many of them. I
have tried, since this group and the Vista general group, and some of the
Beta groups started, to encourage people on multi-boot boxes to avoid this
by simply shortcutting to the desktop of the other Windows OS's
Let's see if I can make it short and sweet so that you will read and
understand what I'm saying. I'm not evoking or provoking an argument. I
have as much distaste as most people for someone who comes on a newsgroup or
forum and says "Hey bozo, yada yada yada my view is correct and yours isn't
and so on." I'm not knocking MSFT, who it took years to do the right thing
as far as rescue disks. but in Windows 7 they appear to have done so unless
they were to pull a working recdis.exe's Program Files location in
Maintenance off the All Programs folder, and hopefully they won't. I would
say though that when MSFT pulled recdisc.exe off the Programs menu from
Vista SP1's beta to it's RTM where I've screenshot it in Win 7, I don't know
any other analogy to use than the one of putting some doc in an ER to catch
patients, and hiding the crash cart, including the defibrillator and
lidocaine.
For thousands of enthusiasts, IT people etc. etc. the System 32 folder
familiar territory. As to its not working, in Vista, most people have been
able to get recdisc.exe to work by tweaking its permissions and I offered 2
ways to do it.
I feel very strongly that since MSFT has the means they should provide a way
to maximize the chance to repair the OS, and to their credit, they've
expended considerable effort toward getting this done, making Win RE
available in various SDKs and other downloads, and now with this feature in
Win 7.
For a good while, I didn't know it existed, but I think I have my act
together now as to how to help people who don't have a Vista DVD or a Win 7
DVD maximize their chances to repair the OS.
According to a number of people on the Technet forums, you can make the
ability to make a Repair Disk work in Windows Vista SP1 if you tweak the
permissions. There have been several threads there--and I'm not sure why
they aren't available as NNTP groups since they are MSFT forums. This
aussie gentleman has been one of the most prolific posters on how to make it
work. But again, they'd have to find it first. I wonder if Steve Sinofsky
thinks the first thing that red headed Lauren does is go to the System 32
folder. I honestly don't think she does. "Like hey Ashleigh, I have to
book now 'cause like I can't wait to go home and plough into my System 32
folder on the new pc I got because Apple Macs are like too expensive and I'm
not cool enough to use a Mac." So my question to Mr. Sinofsky is going to
be why they buried it in the System 32 folder. I think it's a reasonable
question to ask.
RE: VISTA SOLUCTIONS RECDISC.EXE how to create a recovery/repair cd
http://c4consulting.com.au/soluctions/vista/VISTA SOLUCTIONS.htm
I have spent a lot of time evangelizing for MSFT, and like you, I think the
best help we can provide to people is to tell things like they are, so let's
just say I'm dumbfounded/non-plussed that they would pull a way to save
someone's Vista into the system32 folder where the average end user isn't
likely to head or even know exists.
I very much appreciate your frank views on System Restore, and other
components and your opinions of when they work and when they don't. I try
to do the same thing.
What confused the issue was MSFT's pulling a way to make a disk that had all
the Startup Repair features in Vista SP1 after years of knowing one was
needed into a System 32 folder that requires a permissions mod to get it to
work.
XP had a five year run before Vista first became a Beta in July of 2005, and
a ***nearly a seven year run before Vista RTM'd.*** XP RTM'd if I remember
correctly on October 25, 2001, and Vista RTM'd on January 30, 2007. MSFT
got a lot of feedback showcasing the fact that OEM's don't ship XP CDs,
Vista DVDs, and won't be shipping Win 7 DVDs. It's presented a huge problem
for people who confuse what the recovery disks and partitions do (factory
settings when they work) and what Startup Repair, the bootrec switches,
BCDedit, the F8 options, and Last Known good do when they work. They are
all repair modalities, but of course some like the bootsect /nt60all switche
have specific purposes for specific situations
Best,
CH
