Steal this O.S.

[Richard Urban]

M.S. is doing this to protect it's profits, which they have an "obligation"
to do in the name of their share holders. Microsoft is a PUBLICLY traded
company. If it were still private, and they cared a bit less about their
bottom line, there would be nothing stopping them from removing these
restrictions because of people howling.

But if it were my company, or YOURS, you would still leave the restrictions
in place. WHY? Because neither you nor I would want people to ***STEAL***
from us.

If you say otherwise - PLEASE - leave your front door open when you go on a
two week vacation to prove that you feel otherwise.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Robert Moir]

M.S. is doing this to protect it's profits, which they have an
"obligation" to do in the name of their share holders. Microsoft is a
PUBLICLY traded company. If it were still private, and they cared a
bit less about their bottom line, there would be nothing stopping
them from removing these restrictions because of people howling.

But if it were my company, or YOURS, you would still leave the
restrictions in place. WHY? Because neither you nor I would want
people to ***STEAL*** from us.

If you say otherwise - PLEASE - leave your front door open when you
go on a two week vacation to prove that you feel otherwise.

WGA and the like are focussed on casual copying and do little or nothing to
prevent "industrial scale" piracy. If you're going to throw around strawman
arguements about leaving your house's front door open while you go on
vacation then I would argue that with this focus Microsoft are doing exactly
what you say, while putting ever increasingly more elaborate padlocks on
their trash can to stop people stealing the garbage.

This is the route to a tin foil hat (all iPod owners are thieves -
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/04/ballmer_ipod_thieves/ ) and next
stop, a strait jacket.

Regards,
Rob

 

[Richard Urban]

Again, if you or I owned the company, and it was not a publicly traded
company, I still would not allow casual copying. Nor, I think, would you.

How far do you allow it to go. Would you allow every other household in the
world to buy a copy and then use it on 2-3 computers. Would you then allow
the original purchaser to give it to his best friend - or neighbor "who
lives to the right of his home"?

I think not. You would have to get a handle on the "thievery" (casual
copying), on way or another.

Microsoft is trying.

I would still like to see a hardware dongle that would absolutely prevent
"sharing" with others.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[James Colbert]

Yes indeed!
I've had Vista Home Premium with 30 days left to activation for the last 2
months.
Microsoft made a big mistake allowing installation without a product key.
Updates? Plenty of non-Microsoft sites supplying those.

Good luck with that. My understanding is that it's quite easy to
'slipstream' malware into pirated versions of Vista, and many have found
that out the hard way:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/12/06/windows_vista_trojan/

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=7809



James

 

[Robert Moir]

Again, if you or I owned the company, and it was not a publicly traded
company, I still would not allow casual copying. Nor, I think, would
you.

I would carefully weigh up whether or not the gains from these sorts of
attempts to block it are offset by the negative publicity.

It's funny how Apple still seem to be turning a profit in a much smaller
market-space without resorting to such draconian tactics, isn't it?

How far do you allow it to go. Would you allow every other household
in the world to buy a copy and then use it on 2-3 computers. Would
you then allow the original purchaser to give it to his best friend -
or neighbor "who lives to the right of his home"?

I think not. You would have to get a handle on the "thievery" (casual
copying), on way or another.

Sure. I might try using a carrot instead of a stick though, or at least as
well as a stick. As I mention above, it seems to work for Apple.

Microsoft is trying.

I would still like to see a hardware dongle that would absolutely
prevent "sharing" with others.

And when that was cracked and protection free copies of Windows were
available on bit torrent, what would you do next?

Regards
Rob

 

[James Colbert]

Again, if you or I owned the company, and it was not a publicly traded
company, I still would not allow casual copying. Nor, I think, would you.

How far do you allow it to go. Would you allow every other household in
the world to buy a copy and then use it on 2-3 computers. Would you then
allow the original purchaser to give it to his best friend - or neighbor
"who lives to the right of his home"?

I think not. You would have to get a handle on the "thievery" (casual
copying), on way or another.

Microsoft is trying.

I would still like to see a hardware dongle that would absolutely prevent
"sharing" with others.

While I agree that MS has a right to protect it's profit, even from 'casual
copiers', I also agree that Vista is over priced.

However, the two are separate issues, and those who submit arguments that
the pricing 'encourages piracy' gives rise to the possibility that the
reality is that their character is for sale. I.E., those who would otherwise
'not pirate' are willing to do so for the right price. This then, becomes a
character issue, not a Microsoft pricing issue.

James

 

[James Colbert]

I would carefully weigh up whether or not the gains from these sorts of
attempts to block it are offset by the negative publicity.

It's funny how Apple still seem to be turning a profit in a much smaller
market-space without resorting to such draconian tactics, isn't it?

I don't believe this to be a fair comparison. The 'giant' is always subject
to more negative 'attention' than is the 'David'. Apple doesn't institute
such measures because they don't have to.

The same can be said for viri. MS is the target simply by virtue of its
'giant status' and usage statistics. If Apple were the 'giant', they would
most certainly conduct their business differently. They would have to.

James

 

[Bruin]

Someone who is pirating software isn't a customer are they? They're a
thief.

I've been a paying customer for quite a few years as I said in my OP.

Does the high price of a Ferrari encourage car crime? Or is it that some
people are criminal?

Comparing Vista to a Ferrari? MS will do all they can to "encourage"
people to go to Vista. No one is forced to buy a Ferrari.

This is a flawed theory. Using your reasoning no one would steal penny
candy from the local corner shop (and dude, it does happen) and no one
would pirate budget-priced software (they most certainly do) and they
wouldn't even attempt to steal shareware software, which offers very good
value for money and is a good example of supporting grass roots software
development rather than "having to pay 'the man'" (sorry, looked like you
lucked out here too).

Of course there will always be piracy, however, many people wouldn't bother
if they could afford to purchase it. Most would rather have
a legit copy. I purchased Windows (many times), I could afford it, but now
with the current pricing I can not afford it.

 

[Bruin]

A State Trooper with a speed gun assumes the same thing, that all people
are speeders until they pass through the beam successfully.

A security guard at Best Buy assumes the same thing, that you may be a
thief until you pass out of the store without the alarm going off.

A father of a 16 year old beauty assumes that her new boyfriend is a
thug/rascal/degenerate, until he is proven otherwise.

Need I go on. You have really got to get a grip. You are just pissed
because you can't steal the operating systems any longer.

It is people like you who caused this mess to be dropped on the heads of
the "innocent" users.

Your reading comprehension is lacking. I have never stole a copy of
Windows but have been a steady, paying customer since 1994. But I plan to
in the future unless I can find a deal on a student or OEM copy of Vista.
I think you really should re-think your premise that people won't be
stealing their O.S.s anymore. The cracks will appear.

 

[Robert Moir]

I don't believe this to be a fair comparison. The 'giant' is always
subject to more negative 'attention' than is the 'David'. Apple
doesn't institute such measures because they don't have to.

Piracy exists in the Apple sphere, too.

The same can be said for viri. MS is the target simply by virtue of
its 'giant status' and usage statistics. If Apple were the 'giant',
they would most certainly conduct their business differently. They
would have to.

It's "Viruses", and yes - Apple are certainly immature in their approach to
security in comparison to Microsoft.

 

[Robert Moir]

I've been a paying customer for quite a few years as I said in my OP.

I never suggested you were a pirate or a thief or anything else, or at least
I certainly didn't on purpose. My apologies if I gave any unintentional
offence, even though I'm not sure how.

Comparing Vista to a Ferrari? MS will do all they can to "encourage"
people to go to Vista. No one is forced to buy a Ferrari.

I'm comparing them in terms of premium price, not in terms of quality
(though arguably some Ferarris are a truimph of style over substance so
perhaps it isn't such a big reach here either...).

No one is forced to buy Vista, either. And while you might argue there are
more car choices around wrt. the ferrari comparison, you can't compare a
ferrari to a ford focus (though I should add at this point that I'm actually
quite happy with my Focus).

Of course there will always be piracy, however, many people wouldn't
bother if they could afford to purchase it. Most would rather have
a legit copy. I purchased Windows (many times), I could afford it,
but now with the current pricing I can not afford it.

Then you'll have to go without. I certainly won't be spending any of my
money on Vista. I will, however, spend about a quarter of the retail price
of Vista on buying a new copy of Mac OSX when that is out.

 

[Richard Urban]

Not a good comparison!

Apple makes the majority of their profits from HARDWARE. The iphone is going
to give the 53% profit per phone.

Hell, if Microsoft had been making computers all these years (wow, would
Dell and others bitch) maybe their software would be less expensive also.
But Microsoft is a software company that dabbles in hardware. That is where
they must make their profits.

Apple, on the other hand, is a hardware company dabbling in software.

Also, it is funny that hardware dongles for $30,000 programs have not been
cracked.


--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Richard Urban]

I will be glad to concede that Vista is way over priced.

So is a BMW. That doesn't give me license to go out and steal what I can't
afford.

If I couldn't afford to put fuel oil in my tank, that doesn't give me the
right to steal it from the oil company - just because it is $2,50 per gallon
and I think it should be $1,20 per gallon.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Richard Urban]

Cracks that appear will be fixed. Windows XP Professional (free) was allowed
to propagate for three years. I don't see Microsoft allowing this to happen
again.

They have, very obviously, become pro-active about this casual copying,
where one person buys it and shares it with everyone on his dorm floor.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[James Colbert]

Piracy exists in the Apple sphere, too.

Of course, but certainly not even close to the numbers for which it occurs
with Windows. Thus my statement that the comparison is unfair. Windows has a
much, much larger circulation than does Apple. As such, it can be expected
that such problems are exponentially larger for the entity with the larger
distribution. In this case, that would be Windows.

It's "Viruses",

Technically, you are correct. However, "viri" is not necessarily an
incorrect term, as many know:
---------------------
http://www.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Viri

Use of the virii form

While the word viruses is more often used in medical and professional
literature, the virii form remains popular in some Internet communities.
There may be several reasons for the use of this word even when it is known
to be unusual.

---------------------

and yes - Apple are certainly immature in their approach to security in
comparison to Microsoft.

Again, because their lower distribution allows them to be so. They are not a
"primary target".

 

[James Colbert]

I will be glad to concede that Vista is way over priced.

The above statement is in context to my post. The remainder is not, unless
you are 'preaching to the choir'. Otherwise, you have negelected the point
of my post. If you'll re-read my post, you'll find that the below
admonitions are not only unnecessary, but a waste of time. Yours and mine.

James

 

[Richard Urban]

It's called "emphasizing a point".

It's over priced. If I want it, and can't afford it - I don't buy it.

I do not steal it because it is over priced.

I can't believe this thread. Has society fallen so low that we have to
debate whether it is OK to steal because something costs too much? What a
sad situation.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Robert Moir]

Of course, but certainly not even close to the numbers for which it
occurs with Windows. Thus my statement that the comparison is unfair.
Windows has a much, much larger circulation than does Apple. As such,
it can be expected that such problems are exponentially larger for
the entity with the larger distribution. In this case, that would be
Windows.

So how would you express these as percentages? If a population of 100 people
are examined and 10 people are found to be left handed, and a population of
1000 people are examined and 100 are found to be left handed, then while the
group of 1000 is obviously larger, the ratio of left handed people to the
population is actually the same in each group.

If you maintain the Windows sphere has a higher *percentage* of piracy, then
the question of "why" suddenly starts to become interesting, because Apple
users as a group must then be more honest. Why is that?

If the percentages are the same then the problem is the same and it's simply
a matter of scale, so the difference in numbers is irrelevant.

Which is it? You can't have it both ways!

While the word viruses is more often used in medical and professional
literature, the virii form remains popular in some Internet
communities. There may be several reasons for the use of this word
even when it is known to be unusual.

It's still incorrect. It's typically used by Virus authors. Are you a virus
author?

Again, because their lower distribution allows them to be so. They
are not a "primary target".

I'm not sure what you want here. You said Apple's business practices WRT.
security are worse than Microsoft's. I agreed with you, but you still seem
to need to make some kind of point. Now I'm all confused about this last
part.

Regards
Rob.

 

[Robert Moir]

Not a good comparison!

Apple makes the majority of their profits from HARDWARE. The iphone
is going to give the 53% profit per phone.

Well yes. But are you saying they sell operating systems at a loss?

Hell, if Microsoft had been making computers all these years (wow,
would Dell and others bitch) maybe their software would be less
expensive also. But Microsoft is a software company that dabbles in
hardware. That is where they must make their profits.

Apple, on the other hand, is a hardware company dabbling in software.

I wouldn't say they 'dabble'.

Also, it is funny that hardware dongles for $30,000 programs have not
been cracked.

Well where is the $30,000 product with a dongle that has the demand that
Windows has?
I _have_ seen cracks for products that come with a dongle, btw.

 

[Robert Moir]

It's called "emphasizing a point".

It's over priced. If I want it, and can't afford it - I don't buy it.

I do not steal it because it is over priced.

See. We do agree on something.