SP2 Kills PC & Windows XP Copyright

[MJ]

For those considering using the Repair Recovery feature of XP, and have already installed SP2. I would recommend that you first uninstall SP2, then do the repair.

Wish I could. Unfortunately after install my PC kept crashing and I
was unable to uninstall. It soon refused to boot up entirely. I have
no idea what could have caused the problem since nothing was launched
and my drivers seemed to be compatible.

I do appreciate the help though. At this point I am not installing SP2
until I know it is safe for me to do so and all the kinks have been
worked out. Too many apps to reinstall to hope it works. My
understanding is that several apps are not compatible and time for
fixes are not known at this time.

 

[SlowJet]

Shit Happens.

It's what you do with it that determines the quality of life.

SJ

 

[RRR_News]

MJ,
The only problem I see with your future plans. In time, any further windows updates, will require that you have SP2 installed first. I don't think they will completely redesign SP2, but will offer updates. MS offers SP2 CD for free, go to MS to order it. It should arrive within 2 weeks, I got mine sooner.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/sp2/cdorder/en_us/default.mspx


I would recommend if at this time, you are forced to reinstall your version of XP on your PC, do a clean install of XP not a Repair Install.
1. First disconnect PC from Internet connection. Disconnect any peripherals such as printers, scanners, etc...
2. Reload Windows XP
3. Before reloading any software, then load all the drivers (or driver software if required) for the hardware on the PC.
4. Enable XP firewall, unless you are connected though a router with built-in firewall.
5. Then install your Antivirus software. Go to their website, especially if you use Norton, and get any updates available for SP2.
6. Go to any hardware manufacturers, site and get any upgrades for the hardware. You may have to reload the drivers again after installing SP2.
7. Go to Windows Update and reinstall SP2.
8. Then install the rest of your software.
9. Rebooting PC as installation process requires.

--

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Rich/rerat

(RRR News) <message rule>
<<Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate>>

For those considering using the Repair Recovery feature of XP, and have already installed SP2. I would recommend that you first uninstall SP2, then do the repair.

Wish I could. Unfortunately after install my PC kept crashing and I
was unable to uninstall. It soon refused to boot up entirely. I have
no idea what could have caused the problem since nothing was launched
and my drivers seemed to be compatible.

I do appreciate the help though. At this point I am not installing SP2
until I know it is safe for me to do so and all the kinks have been
worked out. Too many apps to reinstall to hope it works. My
understanding is that several apps are not compatible and time for
fixes are not known at this time.

 

[Guest]

I like the food analogy, (and I like pancakes). I expected, (suspected),
that the security apps would conflict with some home-grown web apps. I did
not expect to see blueberries oozing out of the graphics drivers.

It is like being back in the DOS days... when you had to unload and re-load
each driver to see which one was the Root Cause. Simple... comment out a
line in config.sys to test it. (now you know how old I am).

Why would the bleeding edge hurt any less than the trailing edge?

The software all has to be in a compatible STACK.
Have you every odrered one of each type of pancke?
Not exactly the Bell cruve breakfast, would you think?

Yes, new stuff is just as clunky as old stuff.

SJ

This is the 2nd time I see this comment from you.... so please understand,
not all machines are created equally. (Dell 3.06 Ghz, 2 ea. LCD, 1Gig Ram,
WD
80gig)

My example is that I can document some specific problems with SP2.
Examples:
The latest NVidia driver. Some advanced window handling features will not
initialize without an error on SP2. They worked perfectly with SP1.
(Quadro
NVS).

The security warnings crop up even though the JavaScript is running
locally,
on a web app that is communicating to a database on the same machine, (no
network access, not even intranet - AND, scripts, even unsigned, are
enabled).

Windows Explorer, (not IE! ... and not just the File Mgr. window... I mean
Explorer that runs the desktop), locks up. I can kill the process, start
a
new session in a cmd window and go right back to work, but....)

Video now causes BSoD (Blue Screen of Death). This is true in several
different apps, (Pinnacle, QuickTime, and Irfanview - Is it the graphics
driver? [again... worked fine on SP1]).

I went through the "get ready for SP2". I ran one week on SP1 with all
updated drivers to ensure no problems. I had zero errors on install.

This machine is (used to be) on 24X7. I schedule a cleanup and then
reboot
every Sunday night. I am now researching drivers, doing a cleanup every
day,
and consider myself lucky if I can get through a days work without having
to
reboot at least once.

I work in I.S. I have advised our service group not to install SP2 until
more research is done on driver compatibility, especially regards graphics
and the functionality of our home-grown Web Apps.
STATEMENT: SP2 is not as robust as SP1. Depending on the driver
combinations, installed software base, etc., you may or may not experience
these problems, but SP2 is not as robust as SP1.

I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why so many have
these
problems, I dont have one of them.
Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP

:


I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install
the
security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA
250
GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In
one
fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.

I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying
to
resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping
out
my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
install key from them.

Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give
me
another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."

It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
in the future.

Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything
XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read
here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS
update/service pack) before installing it.

If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and
should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or
any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or
time does!

 

[Guest]

One more comment.... I went back and read through your dilemma again, and
there is another option....
Do a completely fresh install, (this assumes that you have a full install CD
and not just the upgrade version). That means re-format and start from
scratch.

Why do I say that? I had a problem with the original install of XP, and a
similar problem when I tried to re-install. I did a format, (to get ALL of
the installation informaiton cancelled off the HD), and the installation went
fine.

I recently had to re-install XP for a second time when my HD fried. I had
none of the problems I had with the corrupt data HD.
Note: 1. I am making assumptions that there is garbage on your hard drive
that is preventing the activation.
2. If you are using an upgrade disk, you will need the CD from the prior OS,
95. 98 or ME to do a complete fresh install.
Good Luck... I hope it all works out.

 

[Tom]

-----Original Message-----

wrote in message [email protected] the right usage in this instance; your attempts at
being a pedant, is beginning to show your intelligence. I
stated (already), that MF is just my usage for this case
(to be quick), you can either ignore it, or continue to
understand it as such. But as long as you continue to use
the wrong abbreviation as being "correct", then I'll
continue to ignore your technical nitpicking of terms and
abbreviations?did according to the OP, and I am not going through the
whole thing again, just to satisfy your ego. You read what
she said, it was very clear, that she gave no detail of
what she did (as for anything to prepare) before SP2,
other than just download and install SP2 on first notice
of it being needed.obvious that you will not be satisfied with any one
person's explanation, or thoughts unless it suits your
emotional state du jour. You remind me of some creationist
science deniers. No matter what real evidence is given to
them, they explain it away as lies, and the evidence is
not acceptable, until it matches their beliefs!

OK, let's summarize. You misinterpreted the OP and responded based on
unwarranted presumption. You have referred to the OP as "she" for no
apparent reason.

You've been had, you first referred to her(him) as a she,
not I; I was simply being congruent.


You then accused me of being ill-prepared in installing

SP2 without having a shred of evidence upon which to base the
accusation.

I did not accuse you of anything, read again! (learn what
accuse means while you're at it)

You have posted an absurd unsupported assertion--that
99.9%

of SP2 trouble is due to "ill prepared" installs. (I understand that
this is an exaggeration for effect, or at least I hope it

is.)

Reasonable, since there have been millions of downloads to
date, and the fact that SP2 issues posted in the MS groups
might represent 10-20% of all post speak volumes.

I think
this all speaks very eloquently for itself.
.

As your PC skills don't!

 

[fbionyourtail]

Many thanks for looking through for some further advice. Actually I
did do a fresh install. I'm not sure if I have an upgrade disk and
even so, you can do a fresh install if you have a prior Win 2000 CD by
swapping out the CD.

I did the reformat. Problem was that I had to reinstall 2 or 3 times.
First time I tried to fix the install by using the repair option.
Didn't work. Then I tried to reinstall a fresh copy onto the same hard
drive. More problems. Reformatted but didn't realize that I had to
disable the entire IDE chain or else there would be boot files dumped
on the IDE drives. Apparently I got to my fifth attempt -- same
hardware and definitely same mobo and processor and RAM, and I got the
activation message. It seems that MS might also keep track of how many
times you have installed a copy of Windows onto a HD in addition to
hardware changes. Bottom line is I speak truth and MS is now telling
me that every install will require a call for a new activation key,
unfortunately. I'm just not happy about that and I just wonder about
the day they challenge me on this...

Many, may thanks MpM.

 

[Al Smith]

I'm not sure what the problem was but notwithstanding my need to

perhaps do research on sites other than Microsoft's, I'm still at a
loss as to how I'm now needing to get a new very long activation key
at every future install since I never changed the hardware. It's a bit
disconcerting making the call at 2AM or so and then be confronted with
the reality of defending your need to ask for the key...

"Welcome to the exciting new world of Windows XP, where you are a
criminal until *we* say you are not..."

 

[Tom]

A) You ass ume that all the vendors and their products are listed.

I ass umed that you were an âss from your first post, but was avoiding name calling in attempts to make a valid point. Well, you showed your poise and expertise concerning your created quandary. In any case, I simply gave you links with program lists, without assuming anything, only in the hopes that you would MAYBE see something there and get on with learning and fixing. The fact that you DON'T check with your own hardware/software makers for updates, is your problem.

B) You also expect the ability to uninstall in some fashion in the
event that the results are not as expected.

No, I had no such expectation, those are your words, nor did I make such a remark regarding uninstalling anything. Poor attempt on your part from defensive posturing.

C) I didn't expect to lose all my installs of Windows XP reinstalling
it, regardless of whether you think I was or was not prepared, now
having all these wonderful documents after the fact. I didn't even
know of the installs issue and THAT is what is ticking me off even
more than having to reformat my entire system. What is this crap of my
having to call MS every time I need to install Windows? Given Windows'
inability to easily deal with the crap spewed by applications and
add-ons, unlike a Mac, I find True Image imaging a major need to do
every few months to ensure the system is smooth.

No one expects to lose anything, but it happens, and can happen just by simply getting a nasty power surge. The point is, it is never the owner's fault, no matter what explanation they are given for their problems. Instead of crying, you should be learning from this and reinstalling. The fact that you went ahead and made this major update because you have no expectations should be testament to you not doing such things in the future. I was going to give you advice on what to do when you reload, to avoid anymore problems, but you can simply FOAD along with your rubbled HD as far as I am concerned!

 

[fbionyourtail]

No one expects to lose anything, but it happens, and can happen just by simply getting a nasty power surge. The point is, it is never the owner's fault, no matter what explanation they are given for their problems. Instead of crying, you should be learning from this and reinstalling. The fact that you went ahead and made this major update because you have no expectations should be testament to you not doing such things in the future. I was going to give you advice on what to do when you reload, to avoid anymore problems, but you can simply FOAD along with your rubbled HD as far as I am concerned!

Wow, you really do evidently have other problems as you can't get
along with anyone in this newsgroup. It seems that you also have a
significant reading comprehension problem. The main issue here is how
and why Windows XP could "lose" installs if none of the hardware had
changed. You remind me of my friend's Dad, who thinks that nothing
ever breaks down and, if it does, then it must be somebody's fault.
Well, in this instance, neither Microsoft -- nor you, the authority --
have answers.

What I have learned from this experience posting in this newsgroup is
that it does not pay to argue with a fool lest others not be able to
tell the difference. As a result, this will be my last post to you and
I will speak to the numerous other, smart, willing, and stable
individuals in this newsgroup. I hope you consider speaking to a
therapist since taking out your personal frustrations in the
newsgroups is not a healthy way to exist.

 

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

For those considering using the Repair Recovery feature of XP, and have
already installed SP2. I would recommend that you first uninstall SP2, then
do the repair.

If you are alive enough to do that, you prolly should not be doing a
"repair" install in the first place. Repair install is close to last
resort, after other tshooting methods have failed, because of the
colateral damage - plus, if the PC hasn't been properly troubleshot
first, the underlying problem may make things far worse.

See http://cquirke.mvps.org/reinst.htm

"Just re-install Windows" should NEVER be a blind first-step on the
troubleshooting list!

There was a similar problem with PC owners when they installed Win98SE
w/IE5.01 on their PC. If they upgraded their version IE, they had a problem,
when they tried to reinstall OS over itself.

Quite. Same with WMP, DirectX, and several other subsystem upgrades.

So by now, MS should know that if users are to be able to "just
re-install", they have to be able to integrate these updates into the
installation disk - which is now possible, in the age of CDRs.

They haven't done that, perhaps because your inability to resurrect
your PC is less important than piracy concerns?

Also before, and after an SP2 installation, make sure that you check for
hadware/software updates. I had to reinstall Flash Player7 after installing SP2.

IOW, prepare as if you were doing an full OS upgrade - because that is
essentially what SP2 is. Fair enough.

Also after the SP2 installation, take a few minutes and go through the
IE/OE Option tabs, and check out the changes there. You may have
to reset some of the features, to the way you like these programs to work.

If you've always left those settings as default, then SP2 will impose
safer settings - it's part of the value of SP2. So don't
automatically fall back to settings that droool.

Don't expect SP2 to have the sense to curb massive allocations to IE's
web cache, or stop the PC restarting every time it has a system error,
or whenever the RPC service fails.

That's clue you still have to apply yourself. It's particularly
important to disable "Restart on system errors", as installing SP2
over some conflicting software (e.g. one particular commercial
malware) will cause errors on system startup. With the duuuuhfault
settings in place, you haven't a hope of figuring out what the hell is
going on... which is how ppl get pushed into "just re-install Windows"

------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope

 

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

To begin, do you think I really give a hoot about whether
it's called activation and registration on a technical basis?

You should, because the difference defends an important right; to
refuse to send personal details to the software vendor on demand.

One of the points waved as reason why activation is acceptable, is
that it requires no privacy impact. It's compulsory, but anonymous.

Registration is not anonymous, and can lead to junk mail and other
intrusions - that's why it has to be kept voluntary.

Every time someone blurs the difference between the two, more users
are likely to register by accident, or because they feel obliged to.

realize that NO HARDWARE WAS CHANGED

Yes; Windows Activation can pull the pin on the DoS payload even when
hardware has not changed. That's one reason we object to it...
- if WPA info is destroyed
- some non-hardware changes are seen as hardware changes:
- CMOS setup change in hide/reveal PIII serial number
- hardware firmware updates; CDRW, SVGA BIOS, etc.
- C: is reformatted or converted to NTFS (volume serial number)

now start making calls and explaining myself like I did at 2am

Quite. Product activation hits you when you're down, i.e. desperately
trying to deal with other problems. At which time you won't be kindly
disposed to the software or vandor, and having the vandor's proxy kick
sand in your face is just the final turd on top of the garbage heap.

WinXP apparently does NOT allow unlimited reinstallations on the same
computer. Perhaps you can tell me, is the experience I had a bug or a
feature of WinXP?

It's a "feature", and a well-known one at that. You are starting to
fight a battle that's been raging since 2001, so you may as well do
some web research and read up on what ground has already been covered.

------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

The rights you save may be your own

 

[fbionyourtail]

You should, because the difference defends an important right; to
refuse to send personal details to the software vendor on demand.

Thank you for the extended information. However, my point was that if
it was obvious what I was talking about and that I used the incorrect
word in this instance... who really cares about the technicality? So
many use this as an opportunity to show all of us how "smart" they are
by pouncing on this. This is why I replied as such!

One of the points waved as reason why activation is acceptable, is
that it requires no privacy impact. It's compulsory, but anonymous.

Registration is not anonymous, and can lead to junk mail and other
intrusions - that's why it has to be kept voluntary.

Every time someone blurs the difference between the two, more users
are likely to register by accident, or because they feel obliged to.


Yes; Windows Activation can pull the pin on the DoS payload even when
hardware has not changed. That's one reason we object to it...
- if WPA info is destroyed
- some non-hardware changes are seen as hardware changes:
- CMOS setup change in hide/reveal PIII serial number
- hardware firmware updates; CDRW, SVGA BIOS, etc.
- C: is reformatted or converted to NTFS (volume serial number)

And the prior poster said that this was impossible and that I must
have changed my hardware. The horrible thing I did was reformat the
hard drive thanks to Windows XP SP-2 screwing up everything and being
unable to be uninstalled once it was installed.

Quite. Product activation hits you when you're down, i.e. desperately
trying to deal with other problems. At which time you won't be kindly
disposed to the software or vandor, and having the vandor's proxy kick
sand in your face is just the final turd on top of the garbage heap.


It's a "feature", and a well-known one at that. You are starting to
fight a battle that's been raging since 2001, so you may as well do
some web research and read up on what ground has already been covered.

Exactly. I was being a little facetious here given the past reference
to numerous bugs and other manners in which Windows unexpectedly does
its "magic" and which might appear to be a bug to a user is somehow
determined to be "acceptable" in the eyes of Microsoft. Thanks for
clearing everything up accurately.

 

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

Thank you for the extended information. However, my point was that if
it was obvious what I was talking about and that I used the incorrect
word in this instance... who really cares about the technicality?

I do, because you are blurring the two together when you do that.

And the prior poster said that this was impossible and that I must
have changed my hardware.

Not everyone is up to speed on the details of WPA...

the horrible thing I did was reformat the hard drive

That changes the volume label, which is a system software entity that
WPA treats as if it were hardware. If you'd restored your
installation without restoring the old volume label, then you'd lose
one "life". If you already lost 3 other "lives" from prior changes,
and these hadn't cleared after 3 months of no changes, then that one
extra life lost would be enough to pull the pin on the WPA payload.

OTOH, if you formatted and re-installed the OS from scratch, then duh,
of course you'd have to activate! After all:
- it's a new installation
- existing WPA records etc. have been wiped

You'd have a 30-day fuse, whereas when WPA payload hatches in a
working install, it's 0 days (XP original) or 3 days (SP1).

------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

The rights you save may be your own

 

[Guest]

First post.

I have had a similar problem, so I backed up my data and made an unattend,
slipstream installation of SP2, formatted, installed, and my system has never
run better.

I do believe there are some problems when going from XP SP1 to SP2 or from a
non SP version of XP to SP2, but doing the slipstream works flawlessly.

Here's the website I used http://unattended.msfn.org/

One thing though, and this is still a problem... when I tried to install the
ATI software for my video card, it said that the drive was incompatible or
something to that nature... but the video still works great, I just can't use
the extra features of the card.

 

[Guest]

We're all geeks here, so lets just try to get along, some of us loath
Micro$haft and some of us love it... let's just agree to disagree, install/or
not SP2 and all is well.

 

[Guest]

Ghost your drive and do a clean install you plonker

 

[Guest]

Folks I had a virtually identical experience. The only saving grace is years
ago I learned to install Windows in its own partition and my applications and
data on to separate partitions. So in my case I only lost my Windows install
and my emails in outlook.

After rebuilding my Athlon 64 PC twice now, I have learned a couple of things.

1) The issue seems to be somewhere in installing SP2 while running NTFS
with the compression option turned on. When I had to reformat the drive a
second time, I left compression turned off. I didn't have any issues then.

2) The crashing seems to be related to my BlackICE firewall. After going
into services and disabling it, the crashing stopped. Of course I now have
bug reports in to both Microsoft and ISS - and am seriously looking at
Symantec & McAffee.

 

[Guest]

I installed SP2 5 times on the same machine and with five different results.
Last time was perfect. No driver updates, program updates. ect.
Don't condem sp2 until you have research all problems first. I am a PC tech
of 20 years and thou MS does, in fact turn out garbage at times, SP2 does
eventually make WXP better and somewhat safer (or as safe as Windows can be).
Give it a chance. For once I think MS thought this one out right. Unlike the
usual MS BS I think they, under the right situation, got it right thou
problly out of LUCK than SKILL.

 

[Guest]

What an interesting thread.

SP2 trashed my 802.11g wireless broadband router connection (the software
not the hardware) it also rendered a number of applications inaccessible
(Corel Draw 8 - not very up to date but pretty mainstream). Windows Explorer
ran at a snail's pace and the hard drive bagen to refuse to boot.

My restore points also failed by the way.

Now I'm not a power user but I do maintain separate hard drives with
programmes on c: and data on d: It helps when I upgrade machines and it
means I can format C: with confidence. I also took a precautionary backup of
data onto CD before I started.

Having spent 3 hours (no exaggeration) on the phone to MS support in
Northern Ireland I was no further towards a recovery. The support technician
informed me that problems with wireless networks and broadband connections is
a common theme with SP2 upgrades.

I finally invoked the tried and tested remedy - I formatted C:, reinstalled
XP (which was an upgrade but only needed a quick peek at my ME disk).
Installed SP2 from a cover disk (cost me GBP 6.49 and a short trip to the
newsagent) and spent a happy afternoon installing essential software whilst
whistling the MS corporate song (not).

It's quite cathartic clearing the decks and spring cleaning the office
whilst waiting for installations to complete. SP2 runs fine now. With the
same software and hardware. All I can conclude is that the programmes
installed into XP SP1 got in the way of SP2's clean installation. It appears
that maybe, even when you disable Norton and Wireless Networking something is
still left resident to trip up SP2.

Shame on Microsoft for not getting it right - 802.11g has been around for a
while as has Norton.

Shame on MVP's for being unsypathetic and arrogant (too many millionaires
forgetting to be human).

Shame on the arrogant geeks who delight in picking holes in others when
their talents could be so much better employed with helpful advice.

Well done to the majority voices of compassion and reason. The truly clever
ones exhibit a social intelligence as well as technical competence.

Have a nice weekend. try to get out and breathe some fresh air. It's only
a computer after all.

Trickydicky