Y
YKhan
So does this mean that even if the NCQ feature is listed in the specs
of an EIDE drive, then it really cannot be used?
BTW, do the Windows XP standard drivers support NCQ?
Yousuf Khan
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So does this mean that even if the NCQ feature is listed in the specs
of an EIDE drive, then it really cannot be used?
BTW, do the Windows XP standard drivers support NCQ?
Yousuf Khan
Y
Yousuf Khan
Rod said:Yousuf Khan wrote
What about ATA Device Physical Info > Interface and Buffer-to-Host Data rate ?
Those fields are non-existent.
Yousuf Khan
R
Rod Speed
Christian Franke wrote
Nope, that showed up before sata did.
That last is just plain wrong.
Separate matter entirely.
Yousuf Khan wrote
AFIAK, NCQ is a SATA only feature.
Nope, that showed up before sata did.
I don't know whether it is possible to use the NCQ commands (READ/WRITE FPDMA QUEUED) through a PATA interface or a
PATA->SATA bridge. NCQ cannot be used with controllers
supporting only the traditional ATA host adapter standard (T13/1510D).
That last is just plain wrong.
Even if a PATA drive would support NCQ, an ATA conforming firmware would not be allowed to report this feature in the
NCQ bit of IDENTIFY word 76.
Separate matter entirely.
Quote from ATA8-ACS (T13/1699-D Revision 6a):
"
4.15 Native Command Queuing (NCQ) feature set
...
The optional NCQ feature set provides support for devices that
implement the Serial Transport (see ATA8-AST).
...
7.16 IDENTIFY DEVICE - ECh, PIO Data-In
...
7.16.7.32 Word 76: Serial ATA Capabilities
R
Rod Speed
Yousuf Khan wrote
They must be there, just renamed.
Rod Speed wrote
Those fields are non-existent.
They must be there, just renamed.
R
Rod Speed
YKhan wrote
Not the use of the word effectively.
Pity about the ATA drives that had it anyway.
Nope, it just means that the driver has to know the drive can do it etc.
Dunno.
Not the use of the word effectively.
Pity about the ATA drives that had it anyway.
So does this mean that even if the NCQ feature is listed
in the specs of an EIDE drive, then it really cannot be used?
Nope, it just means that the driver has to know the drive can do it etc.
BTW, do the Windows XP standard drivers support NCQ?
Dunno.
Y
Yousuf Khan
Rod said:Yousuf Khan wrote
They must be there, just renamed.
Under Storage -> ATA, there are three subcategories: (1) ATA Device
Properties, (2) ATA Device Features, and (3) ATA Device Manufacturer.
Under #1, there are: Model ID, Serial Number, Revision, Parameters, LBA
Sectors, Buffer, Multiple Sectors, ECC Bytes, Max PIO transfer mode, Max
UDMA transfer mode, Active UDMA transfer mode, and Unformatted Capacity.
Under #2, there are just bunch of standard features that either checked
or unchecked, such as: SMART, Security Mode, Power Management, Advanced
power Management, Write Cache, Host Protected Area, Power Up in Standby,
Automatic Acoustic Management, 48-bit LBA, and Device Configuration Overlay.
Under #3, you just have two fields: Company Name, Product Info website.
Yousuf Khan
E
Eric Gisin
Nope, SATA 2 feature like NCQ are part of Microsoft AHCI driver, not ATAPI.
So does this mean that even if the NCQ feature is listed in the specs
of an EIDE drive, then it really cannot be used?
BTW, do the Windows XP standard drivers support NCQ?
Yousuf Khan
So does this mean that even if the NCQ feature is listed in the specs
of an EIDE drive, then it really cannot be used?
BTW, do the Windows XP standard drivers support NCQ?
Yousuf Khan
R
Rod Speed
Christian Franke wrote
Yep, its actually just that 'feature' being renamed and changed in detail over time.
Yes, but the functionality has been around since before sata.
Like I said, thats just a refinement of the detail with that particular functionality.
Thats happened with a hell of lot more than just NCQ.
Rod Speed wrote
That is true for TCQ. It appeared in ATA-4 (~1998) as 'Overlapped' and 'Queued' feature sets and was renamed to TCQ in
ATA-8.
Yep, its actually just that 'feature' being renamed and changed in detail over time.
NCQ's definition is very closely related to SATA, see below.
Yes, but the functionality has been around since before sata.
NCQ commands require additional features like the 'SActive' register.
See Section '13.5.3.1 READ FPDMA QUEUED' and '14.1.4 SActive register'
of Serial ATA Spec Rev 2.6.
'SActive' is outside the scope of PATA and not available in the
register set provided by a controller conforming only to T13/1510D.
That's why some pre-AHCI SATA controllers (e.g. nForce4) provide
additional vendor specific registers to support NCQ.
Like I said, thats just a refinement of the detail with that particular functionality.
Thats happened with a hell of lot more than just NCQ.
R
Rod Speed
Under Storage -> ATA, there are three subcategories: (1) ATA Device
Properties, (2) ATA Device Features, and (3) ATA Device Manufacturer.
Under #1, there are: Model ID, Serial Number, Revision, Parameters,
LBA Sectors, Buffer, Multiple Sectors, ECC Bytes, Max PIO transfer
mode, Max UDMA transfer mode, Active UDMA transfer mode, and
Unformatted Capacity.
Interesting, they've gone backwards a long way on that list.
Maybe the much more detailled list turned out to be too hard to fill out data wise.
Under #2, there are just bunch of standard features that either checked or unchecked, such as: SMART, Security Mode,
Power Management,
Advanced power Management, Write Cache, Host Protected Area, Power Up
in Standby, Automatic Acoustic Management, 48-bit LBA, and Device
Configuration Overlay.
Under #3, you just have two fields: Company Name, Product Info website.
You could have done a screen capture and put it on photobucket etc.
I plan to get some later versions and see what they can do, havent gotten around to it yet tho.
R
Rod Speed
Rod said:Interesting, they've gone backwards a long way on that list.
Maybe the much more detailled list turned out to be too hard to fill
out data wise.
You could have done a screen capture and put it on photobucket etc.
I plan to get some later versions and see what they can do, havent
gotten around to it yet tho.
Obviously the OP could just use the last free version of Everest that does have the fields I listed.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
Y
Yousuf Khan
Rod said:Interesting, they've gone backwards a long way on that list.
Maybe the much more detailled list turned out to be too hard to fill out data wise.
I just noticed that one of the drives seems to return more information
than the other two drives. It has the "ATA Device Physical Info"
subsection that you mentioned. It's a 300GB Maxtor EIDE drive. The other
two drives are a 200GB Maxtor EIDE, and a 1000GB Hitachi SATA, and they
*don't* return this additional information.
I wonder if this information is just something that Everest just has
stored in a database? If it recognizes the drive, then it puts up all of
this info, otherwise it doesn't. Everest must be doing this with the
Product Info website, I can't see a hard drive manufacturer storing a
contact website in its own drive firmware, since websites change so often.
You could have done a screen capture and put it on photobucket etc.
Next time.
I plan to get some later versions and see what they can do, havent gotten around to it yet tho.
Yousuf Khan
R
Rod Speed
Yousuf Khan wrote
Sounds a bit implausible. Its more likely that
only some drives report that data to a query.
Sure, but thats much easier since there are only a very few manufacturer.
Hordes more drive models.
Looks like my other suggestion to use the free version wont work, presumably it
will give the same result for the drives that yours doesnt report the info we want for.
Tho that might support the database theory.
Rod Speed wrote
I just noticed that one of the drives seems to return more information
than the other two drives. It has the "ATA Device Physical Info"
subsection that you mentioned. It's a 300GB Maxtor EIDE drive. The other two drives are a 200GB Maxtor EIDE, and a
1000GB Hitachi SATA, and they *don't* return this additional information.
Interesting.
I wonder if this information is just something that Everest just has stored in a database?
Sounds a bit implausible. Its more likely that
only some drives report that data to a query.
If it recognizes the drive, then it puts up all of this info, otherwise it doesn't. Everest must be doing this with
the Product Info website, I can't see a hard drive manufacturer storing a contact website in its own drive firmware,
since websites change so often.
Sure, but thats much easier since there are only a very few manufacturer.
Hordes more drive models.
Next time.
Looks like my other suggestion to use the free version wont work, presumably it
will give the same result for the drives that yours doesnt report the info we want for.
Tho that might support the database theory.
2
2009
Rod said:Yousuf Khan wrote
Sounds a bit implausible. Its more likely that
only some drives report that data to a query.
Sure, but thats much easier since there are only a very few manufacturer.
Hordes more drive models.
Looks like my other suggestion to use the free version wont work, presumably it
will give the same result for the drives that yours doesnt report the info we want for.
Tho that might support the database theory.
yes - free version doesnt do the biz for what i need
Y
YKhan
Yousuf Khan wrote
Sounds a bit implausible. Its more likely that
only some drives report that data to a query.
Yeah, but why such a discrepancy between drives from the same
manufacturer from around the same era? The 200 gig Maxtor is about 956
days old (2.6 years), while the 300 gig Maxtor is 883 days old (2.4
years), according to its power-on uptime. The older-smaller drive
returns the info, but not the slightly newer-bigger drive.
Yousuf Khan
R
Rod Speed
YKhan wrote
Maxtor did have two different familys of drives in that era, one came from Quantum.
Maybe one is an ex Quantum drive.
Yeah, but why such a discrepancy between drives from
the same manufacturer from around the same era?
The 200 gig Maxtor is about 956 days old (2.6 years),
while the 300 gig Maxtor is 883 days old (2.4
years), according to its power-on uptime.
Maxtor did have two different familys of drives in that era, one came from Quantum.
The older-smaller drive returns the info, but not the slightly newer-bigger drive.
Maybe one is an ex Quantum drive.
Y
Yousuf Khan
Rod said:Maxtor did have two different familys of drives in that era, one came from Quantum.
That may be the case.
Actually, sorry, it looks like it was the slightly newer-bigger Maxtor
that returns that "ATA Device Physical Info" subcategory info. It says
it's a Maxtor DiamondMax 10 family drive.
Actually another reason I think that this entire subcategory is read off
of a database rather than through the drive's own firmware is that other
measurements are given of the drive which have no business ever being in
its firmware, such as Physical Dimensions (147 x 101.6 x 26.1 mm), Max.
Weight (630 g).
Yousuf Khan
Y
Yousuf Khan
2009 said:yes - free version doesnt do the biz for what i need
As others have pointed out, your only option is to use Everest or some
other utility to read the manufacturer and model info off for you, and
you go search for its features on the Internet.
Yousuf Khan
R
Rod Speed
Yousuf said:That may be the case.
Actually, sorry, it looks like it was the slightly newer-bigger Maxtor
that returns that "ATA Device Physical Info" subcategory info. It says
it's a Maxtor DiamondMax 10 family drive.
Actually another reason I think that this entire subcategory is read
off of a database rather than through the drive's own firmware is
that other measurements are given of the drive which have no business
ever being in its firmware, such as Physical Dimensions (147 x 101.6
x 26.1 mm), Max. Weight (630 g).
OK, thats much better evidence.