C
Colin Barnhorst
At all cost? Where is that written?
Man-wai Chang said:
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S
Steve Urbach
Agree. but the manufacturers have to support older hardware at all cost.
Probably not at all costs, but *not* deliberately obsolescing older
stuff either. Nvidia will move downwards on *my* vendor list.
Do you really thing that each newer model is totally new?
I would guess that they are a "super set" of many earlier versions.
Some newer features/modes may not be available for use.
Look at HP PCL based printers. Many of the commands hail from the
(now) lowly LJ-2 series Almost any LJ2 driver will work with a modern
(non-win version) of the current family.
G
Guest
Man-wai Chang said:Is this ethical and environment-friendly?
my 5 years old printer Canon BJC-2100 is not recognized by Windows XP,
instead *BJC2100 it's automatically recognized by Windows Vista* without to
install any additional drivers
J
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
"at all cost"
Really?
Do you apply this same standard to appliances, automobiles, trucks and just
about anything else that changes as technology moves forward.
"at all cost" would all but stop progress since backwards compatibility
would ALWAYS have to be allowed with any new innovation.
Now perhaps some or most , but definitely not "at all cost".
Really?
Do you apply this same standard to appliances, automobiles, trucks and just
about anything else that changes as technology moves forward.
"at all cost" would all but stop progress since backwards compatibility
would ALWAYS have to be allowed with any new innovation.
Now perhaps some or most , but definitely not "at all cost".
R
Robert Moir
Man-wai Chang said:All the greedy (mostly USA) manufacturers in the world.
US manufacturers like ASUS, ABIT...?
Without source codes, capable programmers could port x32 drivers to
x64. Of course, only if Micro$oft allowed that to happen first.
As the device manufacturers are responsible for providing drivers for their
products, it would be up to *them* what support they provide for older
products, such as producing updated 'closed source' drivers or releasing
source code for their drivers and documentation of their hardware interfaces
so that people could update/write new device drivers for old products.
Nothing to do with "Micro$oft" whoever they are, "Vi$ta" whatever that is,
or even the people of a similar name who produced Vista.
If Vi$ta x64 is not going to have drivers for older hardware,
that's a death penalty to them.
So you believe every single device that doesn't work with Vista
automatically becomes a boat anchor on the day Vista appears in the stores?
Curious. I want to hear more about this, does it burst into flames that
night or turn into a magic Disney style pumpkin? I only ask because if it's
the first one I want to put all all my older devices outside in a bucket of
water because I don't really fancy being burnt to death by an old printer.
Once there would be no drivers, a lot of old and functioning
hardware would be forced to be discard. You got it, did you?
FUD and lies. These old devices could be sold via ebay and live a long and
useful life while offsetting the (too expensive I admit) cost of the Vista
purchase, given away to plenty of charitable organisations locally that
could make use of them (think Church projects, etc), or given to the
organisations that send old equipment to third world countries.
In reference to your signature, I only hope you Might have the Courage to
acknowledge that either your Vision or Sincerity is at fault here, but I
won't hold my breath.
M
Man-wai Chang
In reference to your signature, I only hope you Might have the Courage to
I wish my prediction would be wrong. I definitely want the 10Mbps
coaxial cable LAN at my home could join Vi$ta x64.
Right now, only Linux x64 has driver for those old LAN cards (they are
Realtek 8029AS). Mind you, 10Mbps is good enough for internet access,
unless you Earthlings could pump up the inter-continental, submarine
cable bandwidth....
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 20:19:01 up 2 days 23:31 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
acknowledge that either your Vision or Sincerity is at fault here, but I
won't hold my breath.
I wish my prediction would be wrong. I definitely want the 10Mbps
coaxial cable LAN at my home could join Vi$ta x64.
Right now, only Linux x64 has driver for those old LAN cards (they are
Realtek 8029AS). Mind you, 10Mbps is good enough for internet access,
unless you Earthlings could pump up the inter-continental, submarine
cable bandwidth....
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 20:19:01 up 2 days 23:31 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
R
Robert Moir
I wish my prediction would be wrong. I definitely want the 10Mbps
coaxial cable LAN at my home could join Vi$ta x64.
Right now, only Linux x64 has driver for those old LAN cards (they are
Realtek 8029AS). Mind you, 10Mbps is good enough for internet access,
unless you Earthlings could pump up the inter-continental, submarine
cable bandwidth....
So in other words, you don't have to throw those old cards away, no
'death sentence', because they're still perfectly usable if only the
vendors would provide drivers or open the source for the drivers and
their internal device interfaces so that people could write their own.
Thanks for conceding that.
M
Man-wai Chang
So in other words, you don't have to throw those old cards away, no
Yes, if and only if the vendors (or maybe Micro$oft) would provide the
x64 driver....
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 21:51:01 up 4 days 1:03 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
'death sentence', because they're still perfectly usable if only the
vendors would provide drivers or open the source for the drivers and
their internal device interfaces so that people could write their own.
Thanks for conceding that.
Yes, if and only if the vendors (or maybe Micro$oft) would provide the
x64 driver....
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 21:51:01 up 4 days 1:03 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
J
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
Except Microsoft does not make drivers for 3rd party hardware.
The 3rd party drivers distributed by Microsoft were provided by the hardware
manufacturers.
If you have driver issues, hopefully you have contacted the hardware
manufacturer they are really the only one that can do something about it.
The 3rd party drivers distributed by Microsoft were provided by the hardware
manufacturers.
If you have driver issues, hopefully you have contacted the hardware
manufacturer they are really the only one that can do something about it.
R
Robert Moir
Yes, if and only if the vendors (or maybe Micro$oft) would provide the
x64 driver....
As Jupiter notes, it is down to the vendor to supply drivers for their product.
I also mentioned this in my earlier contribution to the thread, which
you largely snipped (and now we see, didn't even bother to read) in
your reply. I also suggested that the vendors could open source their
driver code and apis if they wished, to avoid 'death' for the devices
concerned, which again you ignored in your haste to blame Microsoft for
everything that ever went wrong in your life.
M
Man-wai Chang
Jupiter said:Except Microsoft does not make drivers for 3rd party hardware.
The 3rd party drivers distributed by Microsoft were provided by the
hardware manufacturers.
If you have driver issues, hopefully you have contacted the hardware
manufacturer they are really the only one that can do something about it.
Linux kernel contains drivers. Why couldn't Micro$oft do the same?
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 19:08:01 up 5 days 22:20 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
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C
CJM
Man-wai Chang said:Linux kernel contains drivers. Why couldn't Micro$oft do the same?
You are just trolling now.
You've had your arse kicked and handed to you on a plate, so run along and
play nice with the other patients.
J
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
No one ever said there were no drivers, there are a great many included in
Vista.
Or are you suggesting Linux has drivers for ALL hardware?
You should read the posts in this thread again...perhaps for the first time.
Vista.
Or are you suggesting Linux has drivers for ALL hardware?
You should read the posts in this thread again...perhaps for the first time.
C
CJM
By the end of the month, Vista will be shipping with over 19000 device
drivers, which is 50% more than XP and way more than any build of Linux
comes with.
The 'advantage' of linux is that when you find that your hardware isn't
supported, you might be 'lucky' enough to find that some spotty teenager and
bodged some drivers that can enable your hardware to limp along. In the
Windows world, we expect the hardware manufacturers to provide regularly
updated drivers for all current versions of the OS.
drivers, which is 50% more than XP and way more than any build of Linux
comes with.
The 'advantage' of linux is that when you find that your hardware isn't
supported, you might be 'lucky' enough to find that some spotty teenager and
bodged some drivers that can enable your hardware to limp along. In the
Windows world, we expect the hardware manufacturers to provide regularly
updated drivers for all current versions of the OS.
M
Man-wai Chang
You are just trolling now.
Point your gun to somewhere.. hey, did you forget rules of engagement?
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 20:30:01 up 7 days 23:42 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
You've had your arse kicked and handed to you on a plate, so run along and
play nice with the other patients.
Point your gun to somewhere.. hey, did you forget rules of engagement?
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 20:30:01 up 7 days 23:42 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
M
Man-wai Chang
The 'advantage' of linux is that when you find that your hardware isn't
Providing drivers to older hardware could be an act of social
responsibility, as well as extending the life of working devices in the
x64 domain. Micro$oft has the money and experts to do it. Are they
really that busy? I suppose all of them are genius!
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 20:31:01 up 7 days 23:43 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
supported, you might be 'lucky' enough to find that some spotty teenager and
bodged some drivers that can enable your hardware to limp along. In the
Windows world, we expect the hardware manufacturers to provide regularly
updated drivers for all current versions of the OS.
Providing drivers to older hardware could be an act of social
responsibility, as well as extending the life of working devices in the
x64 domain. Micro$oft has the money and experts to do it. Are they
really that busy? I suppose all of them are genius!
--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 20:31:01 up 7 days 23:43 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
K
Kevin Spencer
"Social Responsibility" is just a word that people who are personally
irresponsible (vis a vis thinking for yourself, which takes a lot more work
than caving to peer pressure) use to feel good about themselves, by pointing
their fingers anywhere but back at themselves.
I suggest you study the phrase "personal responsibility," which is far more
meaningful, and when practiced, yields far better fruit. The world will
never change. You, however, can change yourself for the better, if you are
willing. Once you do so, you can change those with whom you interact, via
your example, not by your political activism.
Talk is cheap. Self-discipline is better.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Software Composer
http://unclechutney.blogspot.com
In case of Minimalism, break Philip Glass.
irresponsible (vis a vis thinking for yourself, which takes a lot more work
than caving to peer pressure) use to feel good about themselves, by pointing
their fingers anywhere but back at themselves.
I suggest you study the phrase "personal responsibility," which is far more
meaningful, and when practiced, yields far better fruit. The world will
never change. You, however, can change yourself for the better, if you are
willing. Once you do so, you can change those with whom you interact, via
your example, not by your political activism.
Talk is cheap. Self-discipline is better.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Software Composer
http://unclechutney.blogspot.com
In case of Minimalism, break Philip Glass.
J
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
"Providing drivers to older hardware..."
What have the hardware manufacturers said when you told them that?
The manufacturers and NOT Microsoft are the experts on their hardware.
Microsoft can not efficiently make drivers for 3rd party hardware, it may
not even be legal.
"Micro$oft has the money..."
For the most part, the manufacturers have the money to support the hardware
they choose.
What have the hardware manufacturers said when you ask about supporting
older hardware?
Do you feel all hardware regardless of age should be supported?
If no how old should be supported?
Do you realize a lot of older is currently supported in Vista, My 5 year old
HP printer is proof of that.
If yes, are you willing to pay the extra $ necessary to SAFELY make
backwards compatible older hardware?
The cost addition could be significant, possibly more than the cost of
replacement hardware.
What have the hardware manufacturers said when you told them that?
The manufacturers and NOT Microsoft are the experts on their hardware.
Microsoft can not efficiently make drivers for 3rd party hardware, it may
not even be legal.
"Micro$oft has the money..."
For the most part, the manufacturers have the money to support the hardware
they choose.
What have the hardware manufacturers said when you ask about supporting
older hardware?
Do you feel all hardware regardless of age should be supported?
If no how old should be supported?
Do you realize a lot of older is currently supported in Vista, My 5 year old
HP printer is proof of that.
If yes, are you willing to pay the extra $ necessary to SAFELY make
backwards compatible older hardware?
The cost addition could be significant, possibly more than the cost of
replacement hardware.