Reasons for a 3-tier achitecture for Web? Why

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I don't have to... because, you can go to almost any major website, such as
ebay... and you'll see the product created in OOP/N-Tier design. Whereas,
most of us here, have never heard of anyone implement a major website in a
2-Tier design. That's why, I am giving you the challenge. SHOW ME YOUR
2-TIER ARCHITECTURE SITE.
 
OK, so let me get this right. If I can have a more scalable, reliable,
maintainable and anything else good for that matter....web site then like
say eBay, then my 2-tier architecture is better than n-Tier OOP....????

Not to forget.... so you don't have a web site, personally or that you had a
direct or indirect hand in, do you?
That is, a web site with a public URL that anyone can see...right?

He he he he
 
Hey, that is if you can have a "MORE" scalable, reliable, maintanable
website. You already lose on the "maintanable" part. The reliable piece...
well, I'm not sure how reliable cut and paste technology is. The scalable
piece... that's easy to accomplish using technology without even using any
"software architecture" technique. But, I'm willing to give you the benefit
of the doubt... Once you've release the URL, we'll run WebLoad or any major
stress test tool out there and see how your apps put up!!! We'll simultate
300 concurrent users inside a timeslice of 10 secs!!! That's pretty
forgiving, isn't it? Then gradually increase the load over time.

I do... but, like I said... you can use any public website out there and
it's no longer necessary for you to look at mine. Whereas, I have never
heard of a major site (well, probably except for some that I know of who are
using vignette story server and tcl/tk... Those were the days... that
language was sooo bad!!!) that uses 2-Tier. So, there ya go... I believe,
base on the thread of this topic, it's your methodology that is under attack
by everybody. So, you got to prove it!!!
 
Sounds like a CHALLENGE.....

SHOW your URL......

HA ha ha ha....

I bet if I were show you my web site and show what can be done AND compare
it to YOUR website....YOU wouldn't even have a WEB site to begin with......

Look at this....for me to even believe a OOP nitwit programmer is
ridiculous...YOU have NOTHING to show for yourself.....

I can even look at the MVP's, gurus, .NET authors, speakers, architects with
30 years experience, Microsoft program managers....AND VERY VERY few even
have a simple web site with just .HTML pages....and even after that, VERY
VERY few have an intermediate site showing some .NET features....

AND then those that DO ACTUALLY have WEB SITE...YOU see their TONE
immediately change when they actually have to do the work....

HA HA HA HA HA

NO URL, NO OOP, NO JOB....ha ha ha ha

You guys don't really do the work anyway....and those OOP who actually
DO..they ARE SO BUSY KEEPING THAT OOP MESS working they don't even have time
to talk or post here.........

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
 
We'll show you our's if you show us yours first...

Stop making the challenge, coz, just like you said... There are other sites
already out there... And all of them have OOP and N-Tier technology already
which you challenged earlier. Now, if you're really smart, you'd understand
that your methodology is the one in question for everyone in this thread.
Let's see yours... Since you have that "2-Tier" mentality, I think, we
should not reveal any "true" ideas to you for you might just copy ours
(meaning, our GUI and scripts).

Unless you're thickheaded and a real numb-skull, I suggest, you put your
technology to the test first...
 
There are more of your OOP programmer out there..SO YOU SAY...

So it should be so EASY to show the URL.....

Lots of your GUYS with 30+ years of experience.....what have you got to show
for it?

Hmmmmmmmm.....

Let me REMIND you, that Authors, Gurus and MVP hardly have any web sites of
their OWN and most of them are just plain old HTML....so YOU and them have
got ZIPPO to talk about.......

All TALK!!!!!


You haven't answered the RIDDLE YET, have YOU.......

HA HA HA HA HA
 
Are you sure you want to use the eBay URL as your OOP example????

Are you sure you want to use the eBay OOP / n-Tier example as your OOP
Flagship????

I am giving you a chance.......

you need to find a better example than eBay.....

are you sure you don't want to reconsider?

Think carefully now...don't let your arrogance or emotions get a hold of
you.....take a hard look at eBay before making that your OOP n-Tier
flagship.....


WARNING:
I am setting you up....and any Microsoft Guru, employee, MVP, and anyone who
uses OOP....



p.s.
You haven't answered the riddle yet......if you did you might save yourself
some embarassment.
 
Speak for yourself...

We have given you lots of examples that use OOP... We have nothing to prove
to you, the methodology we're using has been used on all major websites out
there (and this time, I can confirm) ,YOU IDIOT!!! Whereas we haven't
really heard of a 2-Tier web url... We cannot give you a URL of our OWN coz
we worked in teams. And OOP/N-Tier allows us to do so unlike your 2-Tier
website that's probably crappy anyway!!! Note that your challenge was an
OOP/N-Tier website was weaker than your so called 2-Tier. SO SHUT YOUR HOLE
unless you can prove something to us!!! Otherwise, you're just words and
had nothing better to do.

AGAIN SINCE I SEE YOU'RE BRAIN DEAD... CHECK OUT ALL THE MAJOR WEBSITES
LIKE MICROSOFT'S AND EBAY'S. THOSE ARE N-TIER/OOP ARCHITECTED WEBSITES...
SHOW ME SOME 2-TIER WEBSITES, IF YOU CAN.
 
Hey, why not... but if you can't accept ebay's, go to IBM's website...
that's J2EE technology (meaning N-Tier and OOP!!!)

And who the "F???" cares about your bloody riddle!!! Like I said, you must
be living the "batman/riddler" lifestyle so as you depend on riddles to
defend your ideas. Then again, I think you're insane anyway!!!
 
Just wanted to GIVE you a chance

......just remember you have lost every single argument.....OK?
You and someone else said that procedural produced all these bugs, I then I
crushed your silly argument that Windows 2000 had 65,000 bugs....

I said no one uses PDA to buy stuff so you can't just replace the
presentation layer in the 3 tier like OOP nitwits think they can. But then
ALL you could say is use your imagination for new business apps on the
PDA.....

You then said OR agreeded that software is always going to have BUGS.....I
then said USE your IMAGINATION to think of something to eliminate all those
BUGS..hence 2-tier.

Would you like me go back and refresh your memory in more of those OOP that
you lost?


I can accept you using eBay as I can already knock your OOP Flagship right
back in your face with a well published URL....actually severally well
published URL's

So are you SURE, you want to use eBay?

NOTICE: How NO other GURU, MVP, Microsoft Evangelist, Microsoft program
manager, .NET author is willing to help you here........I issued the
challenge MANY times........


Here is the riddle...
Fully OOP, __________, Full Plate of problems.....
 
Let's see, so you can just swap the presentation layer.....NONSENSE.

Surfing the web on my desktop is a LOT different then a PDA that's 25% of
the size of just 14" monitor.

PLUS, Nobody uses a Windows program to connect to a Internet shopping cart
anyway.....

So there.

This silly Java article NEVER took into the fact of the BUSINESS SIDE of
things.......nor did it ever consider that the DIFFERENT presentation layer
on DIFFERENT devices have DIFFERENT USES... THEREFORE DIFFERENT BUSINESS
LOGIC...

All that 3-tier interchangeability HYPE sounds a lot like that XML hype.....

IT"S amazing how stupid and close minded programmers are........and that's
why the companies they work for went bankrupt or their jobs are going to
India......

Look at all the money spent on a 3-tier with ZERO return.....READ
ZERO.....it costs you so much money up front and you never deliver a product
.....just so you can do a 2-second change that NEVER EVER happens in the real
world because it takes you 2-4 weeks to RE-LEARN that object model you
totally forgot.

DUHHHHHH.........................



Where are those MVP's, GURUS, .NET authors, Microsoft program managers when
YOU need them?
.........they are disbelief...that's why.......
 
nospam said:
Just wanted to GIVE you a chance

.....just remember you have lost every single argument.....OK?
You and someone else said that procedural produced all these bugs, I then I
crushed your silly argument that Windows 2000 had 65,000 bugs....
Click to expand...

nobody in the thread claimed it was produced by procedural type of coding...
Any kind of architecture can potentially produce a bug. It's all
proportional to the size of the project... nitwit...
I said no one uses PDA to buy stuff so you can't just replace the
presentation layer in the 3 tier like OOP nitwits think they can. But then
ALL you could say is use your imagination for new business apps on the
PDA.....
Click to expand...

Are you still going to stick to "BUYING" on the internet. Do an analysis in
your use of the internet... How much of your time is actually spent
browsing in it than buying. With OOP/N-Tier architecture, you can offer so
many services to many users with different devices. Let me give you another
example... "I check out movie scheds in the local theater." Do I need to
go to my full 21" screen and look at the sched when I can easily hook up my
phone and look up the schedule? DUH!!! If all you can think of is buying
on the net... then that's your problem.
You then said OR agreeded that software is always going to have BUGS.....I
then said USE your IMAGINATION to think of something to eliminate all those
BUGS..hence 2-tier.
Click to expand...

2-Tier doesn't solve anything. In fact, it introduces more complexities in
the system. Trying to hunt down for all the business rules in different
pages is just unthinkable to the right minded developer.
Would you like me go back and refresh your memory in more of those OOP that
you lost?
Click to expand...

You're the loser, nitwit!!!
I can accept you using eBay as I can already knock your OOP Flagship right
back in your face with a well published URL....actually severally well
published URL's
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I wonder which "part" of ebay are they complaining about. Many of
these "articles" are based on the biased judgement of the writer.
So are you SURE, you want to use eBay?
Click to expand...

Go Ahead!!!
NOTICE: How NO other GURU, MVP, Microsoft Evangelist, Microsoft program
manager, .NET author is willing to help you here........I issued the
challenge MANY times........


Here is the riddle...
Fully OOP, __________, Full Plate of problems.....
Click to expand...

Like I said, live your life as the riddler... you'd probably have more
success living in planet hollywood than a programmer!!!
 
nospam said:
Let's see, so you can just swap the presentation layer.....NONSENSE.
Click to expand...

Sure you can... check movies.com. They have interfaces for the phone (much
smaller than a PDA) and your notebook. Both have the requirement of
displaying the schedule and theaters a movie is being played. Both
interfaces allows the user to look for a movie... so, where's the
difference in the business rules there? The presentation is different. The
phone may be limited... but underneath it... I guarantee you, it uses the
same business rules!!!
Surfing the web on my desktop is a LOT different then a PDA that's 25% of
the size of just 14" monitor.

PLUS, Nobody uses a Windows program to connect to a Internet shopping cart
anyway.....
Click to expand...

There you go again... the use of the internet for you seems to be just for
buying... how limited can your ideas be? Perhaps other systems are so
foreign to you... you should start another career as a salesman...
So there.

This silly Java article NEVER took into the fact of the BUSINESS SIDE of
things.......nor did it ever consider that the DIFFERENT presentation layer
on DIFFERENT devices have DIFFERENT USES... THEREFORE DIFFERENT BUSINESS
LOGIC...

WWWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG!!!!

All that 3-tier interchangeability HYPE sounds a lot like that XML hype.....
Click to expand...

You numbskull... don't even start about "XML." It's probably another
technology you are not familiar with and wish to defend your outdated
skillset!!!
IT"S amazing how stupid and close minded programmers are........and that's
why the companies they work for went bankrupt or their jobs are going to
India......
Click to expand...

It's amazing how stupid you really can prove yourself... companies are
shifting jobs to india coz they're cheaper over there. And with N-Tier
development/OOP, it's possible to relay the idea of a business analyst to
some lead developer on the other side of the world!!!
Look at all the money spent on a 3-tier with ZERO return.....READ
ZERO.....it costs you so much money up front and you never deliver a product
....just so you can do a 2-second change that NEVER EVER happens in the real
world because it takes you 2-4 weeks to RE-LEARN that object model you
totally forgot.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... and you base this claim on what stupid article again? Hmmm, try
checking websites that have expanded their businesses due to "new business"
rules... Take amazon.com for example... they first sold books, and have
expanded to other items to sell.... DUH!!!! And at least it's possible to
relearn the object model... it takes forever to learn the code from the
standpoint of a new developer!!!
DUHHHHHH.........................
Click to expand...

DUHHHHHH TO YOU TOO!!!.........................
 
Sure you can... check movies.com. They have interfaces for the phone (much
smaller than a PDA) and your notebook. Both have the requirement of
displaying the schedule and theaters a movie is being played. Both
interfaces allows the user to look for a movie... so, where's the
difference in the business rules there? The presentation is different. The
phone may be limited... but underneath it... I guarantee you, it uses the
same business rules!!!
Click to expand...

You OOP / n-Tier Fanatic....

I guarantee you if movie.com did have the same interface for both a 21"
screen and a tiny PDA it would be slow as molasses as it's TOTALLY different
way of surfing in the interface....

This where you are TOTALLY CLUELESS...The business rules are totally
different as no one sticks their credit card number in through their PDA to
buy tickets....NITWIT!!!!

Let's see how many dollars come from and through PDA??????

Do you or do you know of anyone who has stuck their credit card number in
their PDA to buy ANYTHING?

NOoooooo!!!!!

Different Devices have DIFFERENT USES..PERIOD...

Do you know know how much difference it is to design a web site for 640x480
than say 800x600? NO...Because you are a silly WINDOW FANANTIC....who knows
nothing about web programming....

Do you know what the browser looks like between Netscape, and IE?
NOoooo....How about the Apple or AOL? No......

They all look different...same for the PDA...YOU IDIOT!!!!

You can't get the same web page too look right in all browsers, JUST how in
the world do you expect it to look right in the PDA that 25% of the
size...the amount of data is small, columns are less. etc...

I don't see any Gurus, MVP's, .NET authors or MS employees at least sticking
their neck in just a simple reply...WHY????? cause they know what they are
up against......it's called the TRUTH.

There you go again... the use of the internet for you seems to be just for
buying... how limited can your ideas be? Perhaps other systems are so
foreign to you... you should start another career as a salesman...


WWWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG!!!!
Click to expand...




I AM RIGHT. PERIOD.

The LOGIC IS CORRECT...and YOU CANNOT PROVE IT WRONG OTHERWISE

SAY WHY I am WRONG......you know shouldn't say anything on this because you
have seen what happened to everyone else




You numbskull... don't even start about "XML." It's probably another
technology you are not familiar with and wish to defend your outdated
skillset!!!


It's amazing how stupid you really can prove yourself... companies are
shifting jobs to india coz they're cheaper over there. And with N-Tier
development/OOP, it's possible to relay the idea of a business analyst to
some lead developer on the other side of the world!!!
Click to expand...

They are shifting jobs because of stuff like this produced by your crappy
OVERUSE of OOP / N-Tier

Microsoft Admits New Windows Problem
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...u=/ap/20030910/ap_on_hi_te/microsoft_security

Does this happen every week? YES!!!!!!!


If I am going to pay for BUGGY, CRAPPY software from an arrogant "I AM NEVER
WRONG, but BUGS are a FACT of LIFE, I NEED MORE DESIGN TIME" OOP fanatic, I
am going to India to get it CHEAP and that what's kind of software it is
anyway. CHEAP



Hmmmm... and you base this claim on what stupid article again? Hmmm, try
checking websites that have expanded their businesses due to "new business"
rules... Take amazon.com for example... they first sold books, and have
expanded to other items to sell.... DUH!!!! And at least it's possible to
relearn the object model... it takes forever to learn the code from the
standpoint of a new developer!!!
Click to expand...


AH HA!!!!!!!

YOU ADMIT it TAKES TIME (A LOT OF TIME) TO RE-LEARN the OBJECT MODEL.

ALL of that 2-second maintenance CHANGE is OUT of THE WINDOW.
ALL of the so called cost savings for an OOP design done right is also out
the window.
ALL of the MONEY YOU THINK YOU SAVE has NEVER existed and has NEVER
happened.

YOU have CLEARLY DEFEATED yourself with your own admission.


Ah.......How about an _ _ _ comparison between OOP/N-Tier versus my way?


DUHHHHHHHHH

Where are those MVP's, GURUS, .NET authors, Microsoft program managers
when YOU need them?
.........they are disbelief, denial........that's why.......
 
nhoel said:
then

nobody in the thread claimed it was produced by procedural type of coding...
Any kind of architecture can potentially produce a bug. It's all
proportional to the size of the project... nitwit...
Click to expand...



Oh, so I guess Microsoft is justified in having bugs in their programs then?
And you think you can use OOP/n-Tier in medical applications.....
HA HA HA HA.


Are you still going to stick to "BUYING" on the internet. Do an analysis in
your use of the internet... How much of your time is actually spent
browsing in it than buying. With OOP/N-Tier architecture, you can offer so
many services to many users with different devices. Let me give you another
example... "I check out movie scheds in the local theater." Do I need to
go to my full 21" screen and look at the sched when I can easily hook up my
phone and look up the schedule? DUH!!! If all you can think of is buying
on the net... then that's your problem.
Click to expand...

THAT"S YOUR PROBLEM...STUPID OOP/n-Tier PROGRAMMER...
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT TAKE TO BE PROFITABLE

IF I am going to SEE a MOVIE, I DON"T USE MY PDA THAT"S SLOW, SLOW when I
can RUN OVER and buy a NEWSPAPER and at least see a PICTURE..

I ALSO DON"T HAVE TO PAGE THOUGH 20 pages or 50 pages of PDA screens to
research the movie I intend to see.....LOOKING AT THE PDA SCREEN is LIKE
LISTENING to the MOVIE SHOWTIMES on the TELEPHONE.......ONE MOVIES AT A
TIME...and guess what, IT's NOT EASY TO GO BACK to something you missed.....
THE SCREEN is TOOO TINY and there is only so much TEXT you can see on it
anyway.

The PDA is SO SLOW, I could have called a FRIEND that I was going to see the
movie with and see if she was sitting next to a computer and just as well
have her do the research and read the reviews....

THAT"S BROWSING.....

WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO back to BUYING?
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS?
THAT's the STUFF(read your paycheck) that ALLOWS you to have an expensive
wife.


2-Tier doesn't solve anything. In fact, it introduces more complexities in
the system. Trying to hunt down for all the business rules in different
pages is just unthinkable to the right minded developer.
Click to expand...


PROVE IT...COBOL WORKED and it NEVER had 65,000 BUGS!!!!!



Let's see eBay.......

I will be GENTILE ON YOU this time.....

eBay is always DOWN FOR MAINTENANCE ONCE A WEEK......HOW's THAT FOR YOUR
2-second OOP Maintenance.

Would you like the URL?


OH WAIT!!!...there is MORE on eBay......lot's of history on
eBay.......beware you silly OOP / n-Tier fanatic



Here is the riddle...
Fully OOP, __________, Full Plate of problems.....
 
nospam said:
You OOP / n-Tier Fanatic....

I guarantee you if movie.com did have the same interface for both a 21"
screen and a tiny PDA it would be slow as molasses as it's TOTALLY different
way of surfing in the interface....
Click to expand...

You are the freaking IDIOT in this conversation!!! That is why the
presentation layer is seperated in business requirements such as this.
Would you change your movie search engine if the user wanted to look for
theaters playing a certain title in zip code? DUH!!! Hmmm... so, if you
were the programmer, how many times would you have to program the "search"
engine? 1, 2, 3... that's just too plenty. If you design it right, your
search (business logic) can output either in XML, disconnected recordset or
whatever transport... then pass the information to the presentation layer.
From that point on, it's up to the presentation layer to decide how to
render the information... plain text, on a small screen or with all the
bells and whistles of whatever animation plugin you want!!!
This where you are TOTALLY CLUELESS...The business rules are totally
different as no one sticks their credit card number in through their PDA to
buy tickets....NITWIT!!!!
Click to expand...

LOOK WHO'S TALKING... YOU DUMBHEAD... Obviously, you have not programmed
anything other than your one "shopping cart" application... It don't matter
to a business company how a credit card number goes in. Besides, did I say
I was purchasing a ticket... I just said, I was checking out the movie
schedule!!! How is checking a movie schedule going to be different in a
PDA, phone (including Voice Interface Recognition) and a full blown browser?
It's just one of the many example where you can totally create a business
rule despite the many interfaces you have!!! F?CKING IDIOT!!!

Let's see how many dollars come from and through PDA??????
Click to expand...

Hmmm... have you heard of advertising fees? It don't matter to some
companies how much credit card goes through a PDA... sometimes, they're
only after the traffic!!!

Do you or do you know of anyone who has stuck their credit card number in
their PDA to buy ANYTHING?
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I have on many occassions!!! I guess you underestimate the value
of a PDA. Everheard of barcode scanners that they attach to PDA's in some
manufacturing shops? It really shows how clueless you are in Application
Development.

NOoooooo!!!!!
Click to expand...

Yeah... I know myself for one...
Different Devices have DIFFERENT USES..PERIOD...
Click to expand...

Dumbhead... You can have different devices offer the same services... Look
at UPS... they both have an VIR interface and a Web Interface!!!

Do you know know how much difference it is to design a web site for 640x480
than say 800x600? NO...Because you are a silly WINDOW FANANTIC....who knows
nothing about web programming....
Click to expand...

The size has nothing to do with it... That's why the presentation layer is
always detached from the business logic. That way, people can create
different displays for different needs. YOU OLD FAG!!!

Do you know what the browser looks like between Netscape, and IE?
NOoooo....How about the Apple or AOL? No......
Click to expand...

Why, how many systems do you have at home? I can honestly say I have all
the systems you mentioned above.

They all look different...same for the PDA...YOU IDIOT!!!!
Click to expand...

YOU IDIOT!!! Of course they all look different... I never claimed they'll
look the same. But the purpose of the page remains the same. In looking up
a movie... it's to show the schedule!!! Whether you present it in plain
text, a table or inside a plugin is all up to the presentation layer's
implementation. But the requirement still remained the same.
You can't get the same web page too look right in all browsers, JUST how in
the world do you expect it to look right in the PDA that 25% of the
size...the amount of data is small, columns are less. etc...
Click to expand...

Again... I don't expect to. That's why the presentation layer's task is to
figure out the best possible way to present the information, NUMBSKULL!!!
Retrieving the data is up to the business layer and the data layer!!!

I don't see any Gurus, MVP's, .NET authors or MS employees at least sticking
their neck in just a simple reply...WHY????? cause they know what they are
up against......it's called the TRUTH.
Click to expand...

That's because, I'm the only one who has the patience to answer back to your
SILLY arguments. No matter how you look at it... your 2-Tier
implementation is a maintenance nightmare and would lack the ability to
provide information when different interfaces are used.
I AM RIGHT. PERIOD.
Click to expand...

I DON'T THINK SO, F?CKNUT!!!
The LOGIC IS CORRECT...and YOU CANNOT PROVE IT WRONG OTHERWISE
Click to expand...

How many businesses have I given to you as an example where the business
rules are the same even if the interfaces are different!!! Although, I've
noticed that you keep on ignoring it and keep on going back to your argument
of "buying" on the internet. Buying is only one of the millions and
millions of uses of the internet to a business!!! DUMB?SS
SAY WHY I am WRONG......you know shouldn't say anything on this because you
have seen what happened to everyone else
Click to expand...

To everyone else who used 2-Tier designs? They all got outdated!!! and had
to shutdown because their architecture could not adapt to the new business
requirements that came out... such as using cell phones as browser
clients!!!
They are shifting jobs because of stuff like this produced by your crappy
OVERUSE of OOP / N-Tier
Click to expand...


Hmmm... I wouldn't be surprised if you would someday wait on an
unemployment line coz some programmer from India took your job!!! Keep on
having that mentality that you have a safety buffer with that 2-tier
skillset of yours... You'd find yourself out of a job in no time.
Microsoft Admits New Windows Problem
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=528&ncid=528&e=1&u=/ap/20030
910/ap_on_hi_te/microsoft_security

Does this happen every week? YES!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

And so? Your point being??? Microsoft is not the only company promoting
OOP/N-Tier architecture... It does not happen to IBM, SUN or Oracle...
F?CKNUT!!!
If I am going to pay for BUGGY, CRAPPY software from an arrogant "I AM NEVER
WRONG, but BUGS are a FACT of LIFE, I NEED MORE DESIGN TIME" OOP fanatic, I
am going to India to get it CHEAP and that what's kind of software it is
anyway. CHEAP
Click to expand...

Why don't you... not that India is a bad place. But I wouldn't pay top
dollar for your feeble skillset!!!
AH HA!!!!!!!

YOU ADMIT it TAKES TIME (A LOT OF TIME) TO RE-LEARN the OBJECT MODEL.
Click to expand...

BUT IT WOULD TAKE A WHOLE LOT MORE OF TIME TO LEARN CODE FROM A TWO-TIER
DESIGN!!! DUMB ASS!!!!

ALL of that 2-second maintenance CHANGE is OUT of THE WINDOW.
ALL of the so called cost savings for an OOP design done right is also out
the window.
ALL of the MONEY YOU THINK YOU SAVE has NEVER existed and has NEVER
happened.
Click to expand...

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GOT THAT CONCLUSION... BUT, I SAID... FROM A
STANDPOINT OF A NEW DEVELOPER. LET'S SEE HOW FAST A NEW DEVELOPER CAN
PROGRAM IN OOP/N-TIER DESIGN COMPARED TO 2-TIER DESIGN LEARN THE CODE
CONTEST. I BELIEVE WE'LL BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH A NEW RELEASE WHILE YOUR
NEW PROGRAMMER IS STILL BUSY TRYING TO TRACE THROUGH YOUR CODE!!!
YOU have CLEARLY DEFEATED yourself with your own admission.
Click to expand...

PLEASE NOTE: "NEW DEVELOPER." I've never seen a new developer jump into
someone else's code and start modifying right away. And if anyone does
that... I'd fire him right away!!!
Ah.......How about an _ _ _ comparison between OOP/N-Tier versus my way?
Click to expand...

We've been this argument before... Didn't it came up to be... you modify
the code (with cut and paste) n-times in all the pages that the rule changed
whereas I do it in one place? You lost this argument a long time ago,
numbskull!!!
DUHHHHHHHHH

Where are those MVP's, GURUS, .NET authors, Microsoft program managers
when YOU need them?
........they are disbelief, denial........that's why.......
Click to expand...

I guess they've grown tired of your bickering and senseless ideas. I just
have extra time in my hands because of our efficient N-Tier/OOP
methodologies to answer your arguments. NITWIT!!!
 
nospam said:
Oh, so I guess Microsoft is justified in having bugs in their programs then?
And you think you can use OOP/n-Tier in medical applications.....
HA HA HA HA.
Click to expand...

There shouldn't be any justification... but... if it were a perfect world,
we wouldn't see any airplanes crashing in the middle of the ocean, would we?
Airlines have the tightest quality control mandated by the FAA/JAA or most
Aviation representation of governments out there. Yet, every now and then,
we will see in the news of an airplane crash. Just like any program, we
expect bugs to be left out here and there. Microsoft's case is a bit
extreme, but why can't you make a comment about IBM, SUN and ORACLE? They
use OOP too!!!
analysis

THAT"S YOUR PROBLEM...STUPID OOP/n-Tier PROGRAMMER...
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT TAKE TO BE PROFITABLE
Click to expand...

On the other hand, I know what it takes how to be profitable. I know that
advertising is a revenue... I know for a fact too, that the more users I
can reach out there, the more famous my site becomes. And if I offer
different ways for people out there to gain access to my sight... I'd be
able entice them. Besides, who said you can't make business on different
interfaces. I only have to enable the presentation layer to do so... and
it can have the same functionality as a full browser page. SO, WHO'S STUPID
NOW??? WAIT, I'LL SAVE YOU THE HEADACHE!!! DEFINITELY YOU!!!!

IF I am going to SEE a MOVIE, I DON"T USE MY PDA THAT"S SLOW, SLOW when I
can RUN OVER and buy a NEWSPAPER and at least see a PICTURE..
Click to expand...

And if you're in a moving vehicle, like a bus??? Should you happen to creep
out, OUCH!!! Well, at least the world will be rid of one "problem," YOU!!!
And just imagine the cost of it... 50 cents (on weekdays or $1.50 on
weekends) against free and convinient cell phone... Somehow, it does not
compute, does it? That's because, it's a suggestion coming from an IDIOT
like you!!!
I ALSO DON"T HAVE TO PAGE THOUGH 20 pages or 50 pages of PDA screens to
research the movie I intend to see.....LOOKING AT THE PDA SCREEN is LIKE
LISTENING to the MOVIE SHOWTIMES on the TELEPHONE.......ONE MOVIES AT A
TIME...and guess what, IT's NOT EASY TO GO BACK to something you missed.....
THE SCREEN is TOOO TINY and there is only so much TEXT you can see on it
anyway.
Click to expand...

That's not my experience in my PDA or my cell phone... ARE YOU SURE YOU
KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, DUMB HEAD. Even the cell phone has a
screen big enough to show most of the movies shown in theaters!!! I don't
think, at any one week that there are over 100 shows being played in a
certain area. The most I've seen is somewhere 30... and that's very
rare!!!
The PDA is SO SLOW, I could have called a FRIEND that I was going to see the
movie with and see if she was sitting next to a computer and just as well
have her do the research and read the reviews....
Click to expand...

DUMB ASS, you forgot you said "if." So many uncertainties... What if she
wasn't there. What if she only had a dial up and you're using her line.
DUH!!!
THAT"S BROWSING.....
Click to expand...

Hmmm... browsing... meaning the lesser the less meaningful information, the
better. If you've noticed in many "really thin" clients, information is
limited to accomodate it on the screen. For me, that's better...
WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO back to BUYING?
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS?
THAT's the STUFF(read your paycheck) that ALLOWS you to have an expensive
wife.
Click to expand...
Hmmm.... are you going to include your wife here??? No wonder you're
disgrunted for having such an expensive wife and your skillset cannot demand
the pay your want to have!!!
PROVE IT...COBOL WORKED and it NEVER had 65,000 BUGS!!!!!
Click to expand...

Websphere, Web-Logic and Oracle also never had 65,000 bugs yet... their
OOP!!! And to prove my point... That's why many companies spent millions
on keeping their COBOL programs Y2K compliant coz it was a maintenance
nightmare. COBOL did not separate the business logic from the data layer
and definitely not from presentation. What happened was, the maintenance
had to include all of the code to make sure it works after Dec. 31, 1999.
Let's see eBay.......

I will be GENTILE ON YOU this time.....

eBay is always DOWN FOR MAINTENANCE ONCE A WEEK......HOW's THAT FOR YOUR
2-second OOP Maintenance.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and so are many Mainframe apps that I know!!! They're all 2-Tier,
mind you... However, do you experience their downtime? (Unless it was one
of those Denial of Service attacks.) No... that's because they have other
technologies to complement servers that are out for maintenance.
Would you like the URL?


OH WAIT!!!...there is MORE on eBay......lot's of history on
eBay.......beware you silly OOP / n-Tier fanatic
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... and you never put your application down for maintenance??? I'm
really going to be afraid to use your program. Who knows, while in the
middle of a transaction, your app goes offline with my credit card... And
because you're 2-Tier design, you have no implementation of "Application
Transactions" and you'd be charging my credit card while I get nothing...
Let me see... I'd be suing your company for fraud!!!
Here is the riddle...
Fully OOP, __________, Full Plate of problems.....
Click to expand...

Hey, insane Riddler, give up on the riddles, will you.... ASS WIPE!!!
 
nhoel said:
You are the freaking IDIOT in this conversation!!! That is why the
presentation layer is seperated in business requirements such as this.
Would you change your movie search engine if the user wanted to look for
theaters playing a certain title in zip code? DUH!!! Hmmm... so, if you
were the programmer, how many times would you have to program the "search"
engine? 1, 2, 3... that's just too plenty. If you design it right, your
search (business logic) can output either in XML, disconnected recordset or
whatever transport... then pass the information to the presentation layer.
From that point on, it's up to the presentation layer to decide how to
render the information... plain text, on a small screen or with all the
bells and whistles of whatever animation plugin you want!!!
Click to expand...

STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!

I can display MORE stuff and FEATURES on 21" than a PDA.

THAT MEANS MORE BUSINESS LOGIC on a 21" than on a PDA.

YOU are ARGUING AGAINST THE LAWS OF PHYSICS NOW.


LOOK WHO'S TALKING... YOU DUMBHEAD... Obviously, you have not programmed
anything other than your one "shopping cart" application... It don't matter
to a business company how a credit card number goes in. Besides, did I say
I was purchasing a ticket... I just said, I was checking out the movie
schedule!!! How is checking a movie schedule going to be different in a
PDA, phone (including Voice Interface Recognition) and a full blown browser?
It's just one of the many example where you can totally create a business
rule despite the many interfaces you have!!! F?CKING IDIOT!!!
Click to expand...

NOT EVERYTHING IS FREE like checking a MOVIE SCHEDULE, SPORT SCORE OR STOCK
QUOTE.

There is hardly ANY BUSINESS LOGIC TO THESE THINGS ANYWAY.

WHY? BECAUSE the SCREEN is 2" that's WHY?

Hmmm... have you heard of advertising fees? It don't matter to some
companies how much credit card goes through a PDA... sometimes, they're
only after the traffic!!!
Click to expand...


YEA!! and JUST HOW MUCH to these ADVERTISING FEES amount to? Do these
Advertising fees translate in to REAL dollars for the company paying for the
advertising....or just SURFERS taking advantage of a free service?

Hmmm... I have on many occassions!!! I guess you underestimate the value
of a PDA. Everheard of barcode scanners that they attach to PDA's in some
manufacturing shops? It really shows how clueless you are in Application
Development.
Click to expand...


HEY NITWIT!!!!

TELL US WHAT YOU BOUGHT on YOUR PDA through your credit card?????

GIVE US THE URL.......or the how we can also buy what you bought....

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA......

Yeah... I know myself for one...


Dumbhead... You can have different devices offer the same services... Look
at UPS... they both have an VIR interface and a Web Interface!!!
Click to expand...



What's a VIR Interface? OHHHH...MR. SMARTY ACRONYM thinks he's got one
here.

TO BAD NO ONE KNOWS WHAT A VIR interface is because NO ONE USES THEM ANYWAY

GAG!!!!! totally B.S. FAR and FEW BETWEEN if true and I could AGAIN easily
justify a 2 tier approach again with regards to elimination of single point
of failure on those ohhh so buggy and unreliable maintenance updates.


The size has nothing to do with it... That's why the presentation layer is
always detached from the business logic. That way, people can create
different displays for different needs. YOU OLD FAG!!!
Click to expand...


CLUELESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! I can easily PUT more FEATURES on a BIG SCREEN
than a PDA that USERS WILL FIND EASY TO USE........

Why, how many systems do you have at home? I can honestly say I have all
the systems you mentioned above.



YOU IDIOT!!! Of course they all look different... I never claimed they'll
look the same. But the purpose of the page remains the same. In looking up
a movie... it's to show the schedule!!! Whether you present it in plain
text, a table or inside a plugin is all up to the presentation layer's
implementation. But the requirement still remained the same.


Again... I don't expect to. That's why the presentation layer's task is to
figure out the best possible way to present the information, NUMBSKULL!!!
Retrieving the data is up to the business layer and the data layer!!!
Click to expand...


"best possible way to present the information"...... hmmmmmmmm

How about for a PDA, LESS information...which means LESS BUSINESS FEATURES,
WHICH MEANS LESS BUSINESS LOGIC... DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


That's because, I'm the only one who has the patience to answer back to your
SILLY arguments. No matter how you look at it... your 2-Tier
implementation is a maintenance nightmare and would lack the ability to
provide information when different interfaces are used.
Click to expand...


It's because you are an OOP FANATIC NAZI who is thinks OOP is MOST SUPERIOR
Architecture of the history of the world.


Here are the some of the results of your OOP FANATICISM
http://www.cio.com/archive/101501/wasting.html

http://www.usabilitynews.com/news/article1247.asp




How many businesses have I given to you as an example where the business
rules are the same even if the interfaces are different!!! Although, I've
noticed that you keep on ignoring it and keep on going back to your argument
of "buying" on the internet. Buying is only one of the millions and
millions of uses of the internet to a business!!! DUMB?SS
Click to expand...


HERE IS THE RESULT OF THOSE BUSINESS YOU GAVE ME.....

http://www.cioinsight.com/print_article/0,3668,a=33487,00.asp
CIOs crave reliability, but close to a fifth of IT executives are
dissatisfied with the reliability of their vendors' products, and more than
a third think vendors respond too slowly to requests.

see these survey results......these CIO are just being NICE...it's really
DOUBLE those numbers...

To everyone else who used 2-Tier designs? They all got outdated!!! and had
to shutdown because their architecture could not adapt to the new business
requirements that came out... such as using cell phones as browser
clients!!!
Click to expand...


see above to the your new n-tier disasters...


Hmmm... I wouldn't be surprised if you would someday wait on an
unemployment line coz some programmer from India took your job!!! Keep on
having that mentality that you have a safety buffer with that 2-tier
skillset of yours... You'd find yourself out of a job in no time.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=528&ncid=528&e=1&u=/ap/20030

And so? Your point being??? Microsoft is not the only company promoting
OOP/N-Tier architecture... It does not happen to IBM, SUN or Oracle...
F?CKNUT!!!
Click to expand...


YES it DOES happen to IBM, SUN and ORACLE and also THEIR CUSTOMERS

McDonald's

http://www.baselinemag.com/print_article/0,3668,a=44205,00.asp


BUT IT WOULD TAKE A WHOLE LOT MORE OF TIME TO LEARN CODE FROM A TWO-TIER
DESIGN!!! DUMB ASS!!!!
Click to expand...

WRONG you STUPID IDIOT.

here is the article on you n-Tier crappyness
http://www.baselinemag.com/print_article/0,3668,a=44205,00.asp


I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GOT THAT CONCLUSION... BUT, I SAID... FROM A
STANDPOINT OF A NEW DEVELOPER. LET'S SEE HOW FAST A NEW DEVELOPER CAN
PROGRAM IN OOP/N-TIER DESIGN COMPARED TO 2-TIER DESIGN LEARN THE CODE
CONTEST. I BELIEVE WE'LL BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH A NEW RELEASE WHILE YOUR
NEW PROGRAMMER IS STILL BUSY TRYING TO TRACE THROUGH YOUR CODE!!!
Click to expand...


NEW DEVELOPER!!! HA HA HA HA HA

Gartner reports that COBOL programmer that are retrained to OOP have a 60%
failure rate..
http://www.fawcette.com/javapro/2003_10/magazine/columns/objectenterprise/default.asp


FIRST FIX YOUR OOP TRAINING PROGRAM.... HA HA HA HA HA
You can't even train experienced programmers to do your OOP.

How about let's take these SAME programmers and THEY WILL EASILY LEARN
2-TIER and BECOME productive in WEEK ONE....NOT YEAR TWO.....

WHEN YEAR TWO COMES AROUND FOR YOUR OOP NAZIS, you then have 6 more months
for your DESIGN PHASE.....BY THAT TIME YOU WILL BE BANKRUPT and the BUSINESS
WILL HAVE CHANGED....

HA HA HA HA HA HA...

OOP is SOOOOOO SLOW in the DESIGN PHASE...THE BUSINESS NEEDS will have
already change BEFORE the FIRST RELEASE IS EVEN OUT......

By the time your New OOP programmer get around to first learning the Object
model, it will needed to have been changed.......


You went from toooo pragmatic with C++ right on over to "overly" OOP
abstraction/all-or-nothing

HA HA HA HA!!!!







PLEASE NOTE: "NEW DEVELOPER." I've never seen a new developer jump into
someone else's code and start modifying right away. And if anyone does
that... I'd fire him right away!!!


We've been this argument before... Didn't it came up to be... you modify
the code (with cut and paste) n-times in all the pages that the rule changed
whereas I do it in one place? You lost this argument a long time ago,
numbskull!!!
Click to expand...




YOU LOST.............where is eBay when you need them.......ha ha ha ha




I guess they've grown tired of your bickering and senseless ideas. I just
have extra time in my hands because of our efficient N-Tier/OOP
methodologies to answer your arguments. NITWIT!!!
Click to expand...

IF you have sooooo much time, why do MVP's and .NET gurus don't have time
help you out here? It's because they are still looking for WORK?

YOU ARE IN COMPLETE DENIAL of the n-Tier OOP failures.....

So, why is the COMPUTER section at Barnes and Noble so small now?


THE RIDDLE......

THE RIDDLE...

PLEASE answer

Here is the riddle...
Fully OOP, __________, Full Plate of problems.....
 
nospam said:
STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!

I can display MORE stuff and FEATURES on 21" than a PDA.

THAT MEANS MORE BUSINESS LOGIC on a 21" than on a PDA.

YOU are ARGUING AGAINST THE LAWS OF PHYSICS NOW.
Click to expand...

You're the one who is stupid here. Not everybody has the luxury of bagging
a "21" inch monitor onto their backs, not to mention on their palms. This
means, many are still out there who do not have a full browser that is
capable of javascript/plugins/what have you. What is being pointed out
here, IDIOT, is that your client base is not limited to people stuck in
front of a workstation. You have to provide other means so people can
access your information. DUH!!!
NOT EVERYTHING IS FREE like checking a MOVIE SCHEDULE, SPORT SCORE OR STOCK
QUOTE.

There is hardly ANY BUSINESS LOGIC TO THESE THINGS ANYWAY.

WHY? BECAUSE the SCREEN is 2" that's WHY?
Click to expand...

Yes, not everything is free... but if you work for a corporation where you
provide information for doctors (like what's the status of the room they
requested for a surgery), or sales manager requesting the latest sales
figure while in a meeting and billions of reasons (providing people
information that is suppose to be free), you probably want to give them an
interface without making them go in front of a PC, would you? Then again,
that's you... with your limited experience, I don't think you'll grasp the
idea anyway. It's like talking to a stone wall with you.

Let's go to "non" free information you browse on the net. Say, someone is
in starbucks or barnes and noble... and they want to make reservations to a
theater, or a restaturant... would you have them be burdened by carrying
heavy notebooks? Definitely not... PDA's can do just the same. Even if
the screen is a litle more than 3x4, it can still do a lot of things in it.
YEA!! and JUST HOW MUCH to these ADVERTISING FEES amount to? Do these
Advertising fees translate in to REAL dollars for the company paying for the
advertising....or just SURFERS taking advantage of a free service?
Click to expand...

Now, this is a funny one... Whoever said that the "dollar" revenue of the
add is for the "advertising" company. It's like asking, why do companies
put out commercials on TV and Radio. WHO DO YOU THINK MAKES MONEY IN THOSE
KINDS OF BUSINESSES? It's not the advertising company who makes money out
of the "advertising" transaction with the TV or Radio station... it's the
station (just in case you didn't know). This shows your "STUPIDITY" and it
really proves it!!! The same is true with websites... Other businesses buy
advertising space on other website's pages. That is what I meant by being
only after "traffic." You dumb fu?knut!!!
HEY NITWIT!!!!

TELL US WHAT YOU BOUGHT on YOUR PDA through your credit card?????
Click to expand...

Again, your very own favorite... EBAY!!! YOU NUMBSKULL!!! And I was at
starbucks drinking my frupuccino while waiting for a friend!!! YOU SEE THE
EXAMPLE NOW?
GIVE US THE URL.......or the how we can also buy what you bought....

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA......





What's a VIR Interface? OHHHH...MR. SMARTY ACRONYM thinks he's got one
here.
Click to expand...

Just for someone who is stupid like you... Voice Interface/Recognition!!!
YOU REALLY OUGHTA READ MORE about application development.
TO BAD NO ONE KNOWS WHAT A VIR interface is because NO ONE USES THEM
Click to expand...
ANYWAY

Go ask any person in UPS, they'll be able to tell you more about it... Then
again, you're an IDIOT so I don't think you'll understand!!!
GAG!!!!! totally B.S. FAR and FEW BETWEEN if true and I could AGAIN easily
justify a 2 tier approach again with regards to elimination of single point
of failure on those ohhh so buggy and unreliable maintenance updates.
Click to expand...

2-Tier approach is the most unreliable methodology I've ever seen when it
comes to enterprise applications. Then again, for someone with limited
experience like you, it's your only bread and butter that's why you're
willing to stand up for it, even if you look stupid!!!
CLUELESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! I can easily PUT more FEATURES on a BIG SCREEN
than a PDA that USERS WILL FIND EASY TO USE........
Click to expand...

Yes, you can put more features in a BIG SCREEN. But not everybody carries a
"BIG SCREEN" all the time.
looking is


"best possible way to present the information"...... hmmmmmmmm

How about for a PDA, LESS information...which means LESS BUSINESS FEATURES,
WHICH MEANS LESS BUSINESS LOGIC... DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Click to expand...

It may be less, but the logic is still there!!! DUH!!! And if it was a
2-tier architecture, how many times are you going to program the business
logic? Hey, FUC?NUT, make sure, when you try to derive a point... you
would not contradict yourself!!!
It's because you are an OOP FANATIC NAZI who is thinks OOP is MOST SUPERIOR
Architecture of the history of the world.
Click to expand...

I would not be an advocate of it, if I didn't think it is. As far as I
know... 3-Tier/OOP replace 2-Tier designs because time and time again, the
methodology has failed in many projects!!!
Here are the some of the results of your OOP FANATICISM
http://www.cio.com/archive/101501/wasting.html
Click to expand...

HEY, IDIOT... I DON'T SEE THEM PUTTING THE BLAME GAME ON OOP!!!
http://www.usabilitynews.com/news/article1247.asp
Click to expand...

SEE MY COMMENT ABOVE, DUMB HEAD!!!
HERE IS THE RESULT OF THOSE BUSINESS YOU GAVE ME.....

http://www.cioinsight.com/print_article/0,3668,a=33487,00.asp
CIOs crave reliability, but close to a fifth of IT executives are
dissatisfied with the reliability of their vendors' products, and more than
a third think vendors respond too slowly to requests.
Click to expand...

That's because many of those CIO's have relied on advices from people like
you to buy technology that is "2-Tier" in design... anyway, that's not
really the point here... I guess, you're barking the wrong tree. The URL
you provided me tells me of how dissatisfied CIO's are with the products
they bought... not with what they developed. We're talking about
"DEVELOPMENT" here, nutcase!!! And if a home grown application is not able
to satisfy their needs, then something is wrong with their analysis. Even
in the case of "off the shelf" applications... YOU CANNOT EXPECT THE
SYSTEMS TO DO EVERYTHING THEY EXPECTED. If they wanted something like that,
they would have developed their own. However, they know what they can live
with and not. Different companies have different needs... Trying to
purchase a product tailored for your company from a "production" system is
just not possible. No matter how you put it... But, there are products
that have more features than the other... The more features you want, the
more expensive the products get. And in many cases, CIO's have been thrifty
with the budget and assumed the most basic mistake, "It will do" attitude.
That's why, many CIO's have been unhappy with their products because they
never picked the right tool!!!
see these survey results......these CIO are just being NICE...it's really
DOUBLE those numbers...




see above to the your new n-tier disasters...
Click to expand...

HEY, BLUNDERHEAD... I DIDN'T SEE THAT ARTICLE BLAME IT ON OOP/N-TIER!!!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=528&ncid=528&e=1&u=/ap/20030


YES it DOES happen to IBM, SUN and ORACLE and also THEIR CUSTOMERS

McDonald's

http://www.baselinemag.com/print_article/0,3668,a=44205,00.asp
Click to expand...

If you're so afraid of bugs, why don't you just hang your keyboard and mouse
and be a hermit... away from the computing world. If you're going to look
for every bug in any software... then maybe you should start your own
company. Let me know when you have one, so I can test your systems for
"BUGS." I'd probably find more in your stuff, than Microsoft.
WRONG you STUPID IDIOT.

here is the article on you n-Tier crappyness
http://www.baselinemag.com/print_article/0,3668,a=44205,00.asp
Click to expand...

Excuse me, you bumbling idiot... but stop wasting my time if you're just
going to point out stupid arguments supported by out-of-line articles. The
article about McDonald's does not blame technology at all as the failure of
the product. But rather, the culture and mindset of the executives and
chain owners are a problem. It clearly states that, if the budget was not
cut, Innovate would have been successful. However, for simple minds like
yourself... the point is clearly missed. Once again, you have failed to
point out to me your point. In this very example, there was no mention of
"2-Tier" being more successful than an N-Tier design.
NEW DEVELOPER!!! HA HA HA HA HA
Click to expand...

Again... YOU'RE ONE STUPID IDIOT. I never said, "a new developer" as in no
experience developer in OOP. Whose the idiot who would hire one anyway?
What I meant was, someone who's been into OOP development and learning how
to deliver expectations in an application. DUH!!! Again, you have failed
to point out the very argument... Match apples with apples... Your new
"2-Tier" programmer learning a 2-Tier app against an OOP/N-Tier developer
learning an N-Tier app. Is it clearer for you now... having established
that... It will take your 2-tier programmer several months to debug and
trace through your code compared to the 2-weeks of an OOP/N-Tier developer
going through the object model in an N-Tier app.
Gartner reports that COBOL programmer that are retrained to OOP have a 60%
failure rate..
http://www.fawcette.com/javapro/2003_10/magazine/columns/objectenterprise/de
fault.asp
Click to expand...

Again... don't waste my time about these silly article as once again,
you've missed the point you "?UCKNUT."
FIRST FIX YOUR OOP TRAINING PROGRAM.... HA HA HA HA HA
You can't even train experienced programmers to do your OOP.
Click to expand...

That's because the programmers they've cited are like you... people who
refuse to learn OOP and can't improve their skillset.
How about let's take these SAME programmers and THEY WILL EASILY LEARN
2-TIER and BECOME productive in WEEK ONE....NOT YEAR TWO.....
Click to expand...

BUT THEY WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH A MAINTENANCE NIGHTMARE... I'd rather not
go through your 2-Tier application...
WHEN YEAR TWO COMES AROUND FOR YOUR OOP NAZIS, you then have 6 more months
for your DESIGN PHASE.....BY THAT TIME YOU WILL BE BANKRUPT and the BUSINESS
WILL HAVE CHANGED....
Click to expand...

Hahaha... you're funny... Again, why would you hire someone who doesn't
know your technology. It's just not right business practice you dumb idiot.
HA HA HA HA HA HA...

OOP is SOOOOOO SLOW in the DESIGN PHASE...THE BUSINESS NEEDS will have
already change BEFORE the FIRST RELEASE IS EVEN OUT......
Click to expand...

And 2-Tier design is like going to a battle with blazing guns... and when
the smoke clears, you've achieved nothing!!!
By the time your New OOP programmer get around to first learning the Object
model, it will needed to have been changed.......
Click to expand...

But we don't hire programmers with NO OOP experience, that's why you're
stuck in your job and can't move on.
You went from toooo pragmatic with C++ right on over to "overly" OOP
abstraction/all-or-nothing

HA HA HA HA!!!!












YOU LOST.............where is eBay when you need them.......ha ha ha ha
Click to expand...

Apparently, it's still up... and I'm still ordering my stuff from them...
YOU LOST!!!
IF you have sooooo much time, why do MVP's and .NET gurus don't have time
help you out here? It's because they are still looking for WORK?
Click to expand...

No... because they find you rather annoying...
YOU ARE IN COMPLETE DENIAL of the n-Tier OOP failures.....
Click to expand...

No... I see OOP as a solution to the 2-Tier problem that you keep on
putting up with...
So, why is the COMPUTER section at Barnes and Noble so small now?
Click to expand...

UUUUHHH... I don't know which bookstores you go to... but have you gone to
Fry's or Microcenter. Their computer book collection is just too many!!!
THE RIDDLE......

THE RIDDLE...

PLEASE answer

Here is the riddle...
Fully OOP, __________, Full Plate of problems.....
Click to expand...

THIS IS BULLSHIT... OF COURSE, YOU'RE FULL OF IT ANYWAY!!!!
 
nhoel said:
Again, your very own favorite... EBAY!!! YOU NUMBSKULL!!! And I was at
starbucks drinking my frupuccino while waiting for a friend!!! YOU SEE THE
EXAMPLE NOW?
Click to expand...


WHAT DID YOU BUY ON YOUR PDA????

GIVE US THE URL SO THAT WE CAN BUY IT ALSO........


2-Tier approach is the most unreliable methodology I've ever seen when it
comes to enterprise applications. Then again, for someone with limited
experience like you, it's your only bread and butter that's why you're
willing to stand up for it, even if you look stupid!!!
Click to expand...


PROVE IT....lots of Hospitals use COBOL.....after all these YEARS.....

I don't see a class action suit on COBOL killing patients, do YOU???
Yes, you can put more features in a BIG SCREEN. But not everybody carries a
"BIG SCREEN" all the time.
Click to expand...

21", 19", 17", 14" or 12"

DOESN"T MATTER.....it's NO WHERE near 2" like a PDA.......



I would not be an advocate of it, if I didn't think it is. As far as I
know... 3-Tier/OOP replace 2-Tier designs because time and time again, the
methodology has failed in many projects!!!


HEY, IDIOT... I DON'T SEE THEM PUTTING THE BLAME GAME ON OOP!!!
Click to expand...



It's cause they haven't figured it out yet..... BUT JUST REMEMBER what YOU
SAID......all these SYSTEM are BUILT USING OOP.......

SO, THERE....YOUR OOP has REAPED what IT SOED.....


That's because many of those CIO's have relied on advices from people like
you to buy technology that is "2-Tier" in design...
Click to expand...



OH..NO NO NO NO NO....

YOU SAID ALL BIG COMPANIES ARE USING OOP.....and that's TRUE......

SO,....THERE....that's WHAT YOU GOT IN RETURN.....FAILURE

PERIOD.......



anyway, that's not
really the point here... I guess, you're barking the wrong tree. The URL
you provided me tells me of how dissatisfied CIO's are with the products
they bought... not with what they developed. We're talking about
"DEVELOPMENT" here, nutcase!!! And if a home grown application is not able
to satisfy their needs, then something is wrong with their analysis. Even
in the case of "off the shelf" applications... YOU CANNOT EXPECT THE
SYSTEMS TO DO EVERYTHING THEY EXPECTED.
Click to expand...


WAIT JUST A SECOND HERE....I THOUGH OOP WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FLEXIBLE,
EXTENDABLE....
2-seconds just to make a change.....




If they wanted something like that,
they would have developed their own. However, they know what they can live
with and not. Different companies have different needs... Trying to
purchase a product tailored for your company from a "production" system is
just not possible. No matter how you put it... But, there are products
that have more features than the other... The more features you want, the
more expensive the products get. And in many cases, CIO's have been thrifty
with the budget and assumed the most basic mistake, "It will do" attitude.
That's why, many CIO's have been unhappy with their products because they
never picked the right tool!!!
Click to expand...

YES,,,THEY PICKED n-Tier, OOP
....supposedly the CUTTING EDGE OF DEVELOPMENT ARCHITECURE

HEY, BLUNDERHEAD... I DIDN'T SEE THAT ARTICLE BLAME IT ON OOP/N-TIER!!!
Keep
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=528&ncid=528&e=1&u=/ap/20030

If you're so afraid of bugs, why don't you just hang your keyboard and mouse
and be a hermit... away from the computing world. If you're going to look
for every bug in any software... then maybe you should start your own
company. Let me know when you have one, so I can test your systems for
"BUGS." I'd probably find more in your stuff, than Microsoft.


Excuse me, you bumbling idiot... but stop wasting my time if you're just
going to point out stupid arguments supported by out-of-line articles. The
article about McDonald's does not blame technology at all as the failure of
the product. But rather, the culture and mindset of the executives and
chain owners are a problem. It clearly states that, if the budget was not
cut, Innovate would have been successful. However, for simple minds like
yourself... the point is clearly missed. Once again, you have failed to
point out to me your point. In this very example, there was no mention of
"2-Tier" being more successful than an N-Tier design.
Click to expand...


YES.....BUT YOU KNOW SOME OOP HEAD HONCHO, MCSD, MVP, 3-letters, 3-letters,
3-letters architect

was in CHARGE....


Again... YOU'RE ONE STUPID IDIOT. I never said, "a new developer" as in no
experience developer in OOP. Whose the idiot who would hire one anyway?
What I meant was, someone who's been into OOP development and learning how
to deliver expectations in an application. DUH!!! Again, you have failed
to point out the very argument... Match apples with apples... Your new
"2-Tier" programmer learning a 2-Tier app against an OOP/N-Tier developer
learning an N-Tier app. Is it clearer for you now... having established
that... It will take your 2-tier programmer several months to debug and
trace through your code compared to the 2-weeks of an OOP/N-Tier developer
going through the object model in an N-Tier app.
Click to expand...


B.S.......
It's will take your n-Tier developer 3 -6 month just to understand a system
that will have changed after he's learned the model...




http://www.fawcette.com/javapro/2003_10/magazine/columns/objectenterprise/de

Again... don't waste my time about these silly article as once again,
you've missed the point you "?UCKNUT."
Click to expand...



YOU HAVE A POINT????

.......TELL IT TO THOSE CIO's WHO's PROJECTS ARE SCREWED UP FROM YOUR SO
CALLED OOP EXPERTS THEY HIRED THAT HAVE MILE LONG RESUMES AND 3 and 4 letter
certifications



That's because the programmers they've cited are like you... people who
refuse to learn OOP and can't improve their skillset.
Click to expand...


REFUSE OOP......IT"S NOT REFUSE OOP....IT"S REFUSE UNECESSARY COMPLEXITY


BUT THEY WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH A MAINTENANCE NIGHTMARE... I'd rather not
go through your 2-Tier application...


Hahaha... you're funny... Again, why would you hire someone who doesn't
know your technology. It's just not right business practice you dumb
Click to expand...
idiot.


YOU CAN"T FIND ANYONE WHO KNOWS YOUR OOP LUNACY and THEN AFTER THAT YOU
CAN"T EVEN TRAIN SOMEONE IN THE FIRST PLACE...

DUFUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And 2-Tier design is like going to a battle with blazing guns... and when
the smoke clears, you've achieved nothing!!!
Click to expand...



ME!!!......YOU!!!!....LOOK AT McDONALD's......THAT's OOP and THAT's
ACHIEVING NOTHING.....




Where is the URL so I can use that PDA.......?

Quick...think of some B.S. where I can't check.....
 
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