Quad core or i7? And homebuilt PC forums

[David Brown]

rodless is simply the local troll. He is best ignored, except when his
drivel might result in somebody trying something really stupid...

Yes, I've come across Rod before. I'm just curious to know what
motivates him and the way he posts. Sometimes he does post useful
information - it's just that there is apparently no way to discuss
things with him, and therefore no way to progress if others don't
entirely agree with him. If we could understand him, maybe he could be
a useful contributor here instead of just a nuisance. But I suppose
there's no way to know.

 

[David Brown]

For now, that's probably not an issue for the system manufacturers.
But 2 years from now, 4 TB drives will be "cheap enough" to be put
into mid-range and possibly even lower-cost desktop systems. I have
to think that the manufacturers will want to offer these drives in a
one-drive system, so there will be pressure on everyone concerned to
solve this problem, just as the 137 MB barrier issue was solved
several years ago.



For you and me and the other people who read this list, that makes
perfect sense. But to the system manufacturers, I think they will
want to stay with one-drive products. (not including optical drives,
of course).

What you say here is entirely true, but my understanding was that the PC
in question was being bought and built now, with a view to possibly
upgrading in the future - thus support for large boot disks is not a big
issue here. But you are of course right that it will be an issue in the
future - probably forcing more systems over to EFI bioses.

 

[Rod Speed]

David Brown wrote

JR Weiss wrote

Yes, I've come across Rod before. I'm just curious to know what motivates him and the way he posts. Sometimes he
does post useful information - it's just that there is apparently no way to discuss things with him, and therefore no
way to progress if others don't entirely agree with him.

Another mindless lie. Have a look at the threads that involve Yousuf and me for starters.

If we could understand him, maybe he could be a useful contributor here instead of just a nuisance.

How odd that I have personally assisted FAR more
individuals in here in the last month alone than you have.

In spades with your mindless silly shit about backups in that earlier thread.

You're just another silly little fool that hates having his nose rubbed in the worst of its stupiditys.

But I suppose there's no way to know.

Its obvious to anyone with even half a clue.

 

[Rod Speed]

What you say here is entirely true, but my understanding was that the
PC in question was being bought and built now, with a view to possibly
upgrading in the future - thus support for large boot disks is not a
big issue here.

Thats just plain wrong too. Plenty choose to have a single drive system and when
they run out of space on that, just replace the single drive with a larger one.

But you are of course right that it will be an issue in the future - probably forcing more systems over to EFI bioses.

Corse the EFI bios will become universal sometime.

 

[Rod Speed]

David Brown wrote

Rod Speed wrote

I'm curious to /why/ you post like this.

The reason should be obvious.

I point out the holes in your arguments, and put the boot in when you
desperately attempt to bullshit your way out of your predicament.

That should have been obvious from the earlier thread on backup.

 

[David Brown]

David Brown wrote



The reason should be obvious.

I point out the holes in your arguments, and put the boot in when you
desperately attempt to bullshit your way out of your predicament.

That should have been obvious from the earlier thread on backup.

That thread was from when I had recently joined this group - I was not
familiar with your posting style (or other people's reactions to it).

But this begs the question - if you really do want to point out people's
mistakes, provide helpful information, and have adult discussions, why
make the kindergarten potty-mouth postings? No one could possibly take
those comments seriously, so no one benefits, and it means many regulars
here simply assume that *anything* you write is "mindless puerile shit".

Would it be so difficult for you to write "I disagree because...",
"That's true enough but not directly relevant here...", or even just "We
are never going to agree on this, so let's stop this branch" ?

Often you make useful and sensible posts that answer questions and give
advice. Then if someone contradicts you or writes something you
disagree with, you switch straight to "rodbot" mode, from which a thread
branch seldom recovers. How about something in between?

(I know this sounds patronising - but how do you tell someone to grow up
without sounding patronising?)

 

[David Brown]

David Brown wrote


Another mindless lie. Have a look at the threads that involve Yousuf
and me for starters.

I've had a look at a few threads - you *do* post useful information, and
you *do* go haywire after most disagreements. As long as the thread
consists of people asking questions and accepting your answers as near
gospel, you are happy. When you meet a poster who values their own
experiences, knowledge or opinions more than they do yours, you
generally break down.

How odd that I have personally assisted FAR more individuals in here
in the last month alone than you have.

I'm mostly a lurker here, and am more "at home" in other groups.

But for every person you help here, you irritate many more, and you
destroy useful threads with your tantrums. You'd help far more if you
simply didn't send any post that contains your cut-n-paste phrases -
that way more people would give credit to your useful posts.

In spades with your mindless silly shit about backups in that earlier
thread.

You're just another silly little fool that hates having his nose
rubbed in the worst of its stupiditys.

I am well aware of my knowledge in these topics, and the limits to it.
I know what works for me, I know what advice I've given in the past that
has worked or not worked for other people. But I am fully aware that
the way I like to do things doesn't suit everyone. I post in newsgroups
with the /expectation/ that I'll be corrected if my facts are wrong, and
that others will have different opinions and experiences. I post to
give advice, but also to receive advice - I /want/ to have my ideas
challenged because that's when I'll learn. And there is no doubt that I
have learned a couple of things from your posts too (such as about live
windows CDs). But no one can learn anything from mindless cut-and-paste
gutter-mouth insults.

You say you want to inform people - I say I want to learn. But it can't
work until /you/ are also willing to learn, and to accept that you don't
know everything, you aren't always right, and that other people have
different opinions, needs, and experiences from you.

 

[David Brown]

Thats just plain wrong too. Plenty choose to have a single drive
system and when they run out of space on that, just replace the
single drive with a larger one.

This is just my experience and opinion (just like your view, unless you
can reference numbers), but most people do not like to mess with their
"c drive" (non-windows users are a different matter - but they are not
"most people"). They don't like to re-install their OS, or to use
low-level disk utilities to move the OS partition. But they *do*
understand the concept of running out of disk space for storing photos,
music, downloaded films, etc., and adding a new hard disk is not that hard.

And of course adding a second drive means you have the combined disk
space of the two drives - why would someone want to throw away the
original drive to replace it with a new one, when you can have both?

Thus I believe it is much more common to add a second hard drive for
data than to replace the system drive.

Corse the EFI bios will become universal sometime.

No, it will not become universal - there are several reasons to choose
something other than EFI (including unnecessary complexity,
compatibility issues, and security and freedom concerns - some people
are worried that the EFI may try to limit or lock the OS running on the
system, meaning the user can't use the OS of their choice). The EFI
will become more common, but certainly not "universal".

Of course, alternatives for the future (such as newer traditional
BIOSes, CoreBoot, etc.) either support GPT now, or will no doubt do so
in the future.

 

[Rod Speed]

David Brown wrote

Rod Speed wrote

That thread was from when I had recently joined this group - I was not
familiar with your posting style (or other people's reactions to it).

And yet you continued to make a spectacular fool of yourself
about the vikings, and now about upgrades for the bios.

But this begs the question - if you really do want to point out
people's mistakes, provide helpful information, and have adult
discussions, why make the kindergarten potty-mouth postings?

I only put the boot into the stupid posts by fools like you, child.

No one could possibly take those comments seriously,

How odd that so many do, child.

so no one benefits,

Another of your childish lies.

and it means many regulars here simply assume that *anything* you write is "mindless puerile shit".

More of your peurile lies.

Would it be so difficult for you to write "I disagree because...",
"That's true enough but not directly relevant here...", or even just
"We are never going to agree on this, so let's stop this branch" ?

How odd that you dont actually do that yourself, child.

Does that mean that you are just another silly little ****wit hyprocrite child ?

Often you make useful and sensible posts that answer questions and give advice. Then if someone contradicts you or
writes something you disagree with,

You're lying, as always. That only happens when fools like you post mindless silly shit.

you switch straight to "rodbot" mode, from which a thread branch seldom recovers.

More of your childish lies.

How about something in between?

How odd that you dont do that yourself, child.

(I know this sounds patronising

And puerile to boot.

- but how do you tell someone to grow up without sounding patronising?)

Corse that isnt you doing precisely what you howl about, is it child ?

 

[Rod Speed]

David Brown wrote

Rod Speed wrote

I've had a look at a few threads - you *do* post useful information,
and you *do* go haywire after most disagreements.

More of your childish lies.

As long as the thread consists of people asking questions and accepting your answers as near gospel, you are happy.
When you meet a poster who values their own experiences, knowledge or opinions more than they do yours, you generally
break down.

More of your childish lies.

I only put the boot into stupid little children like you and Weiss, child.

I'm mostly a lurker here, and am more "at home" in other groups.

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

But for every person you help here, you irritate many more,

More of your childish lying.

and you destroy useful threads with your tantrums.

More of your childish lying.

You'd help far more if you simply didn't send any post that contains your cut-n-paste phrases

How odd that I have personally assisted FAR more individuals
in here in the last month alone than you have, child.

- that way more people would give credit to your useful posts.

No one actually gives a flying red **** what stupid little
hypocritical children like you 'give credit' for, ****wit child.

I am well aware of my knowledge in these topics, and the limits to it.

More of your lies.

I know what works for me, I know what advice I've given in the past that has worked or not worked for other people.
But I am fully aware that the way I like to do things doesn't suit everyone.

Thats true in spades of posting styles, ****wit child.

I post in newsgroups with the /expectation/ that I'll be corrected if my facts are wrong, and that others will have
different opinions and experiences. I post to give advice, but also to receive advice - I /want/ to have my ideas
challenged because that's when I'll learn.

How odd that you spit the dummy when that happens, child.

And there is no doubt that I have learned a couple of things from
your posts too (such as about live windows CDs). But no one can
learn anything from mindless cut-and-paste gutter-mouth insults.

No one ever learns a damned thing from your childish attempts at insults, child.

You say you want to inform people

You're lying, as always.

- I say I want to learn.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and uttery irrelevant.

What you might or might not claim to want in spades.

But it can't work until /you/ are also willing to learn,

Nothing to learn from silly little pig ignorant clowns like you, child.

and to accept that you don't know everything,

Never ever said I was, ****wit child. Even someone as stupid as you
should have noticed that I dont even comment on a number of matters.

you aren't always right,

Never ever said I was, ****wit child. I quite often say
that I have ****ed up. I often call those brain farts.

Even silly little ****wit child should be able to find
plenty of examples of that using groups.google.

and that other people have different opinions, needs, and experiences from you.

You seriously 'think' that I dont realise that, ****wit child ?

 

[Rod Speed]

David Brown wrote

Rod Speed wrote

This is just my experience and opinion

Pity its just plain wrong.

(just like your view, unless you can reference numbers),

Dont need to 'reference numbers', ****wit child.

but most people do not like to mess with their "c drive"

Easy to claim. Have fun actually substantiating that claim.

And what matters aint what 'most people' may or may not like,
what matters is what they allow professionals to do to their system.

(non-windows users are a different matter - but they are not "most people").

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist ****wit children ?

They don't like to re-install their OS,

You dont have to reintall the OS, ****wit child.

or to use low-level disk utilities to move the OS partition.

Nothing 'low level' about cloners, ****wit child.

But they *do* understand the concept of running out of disk space for storing photos, music, downloaded films, etc.,
and adding a new hard disk is not that hard.

Cloning the hard drive aint that hard either, ****wit child.

And of course adding a second drive means you have the combined disk
space of the two drives - why would someone want to throw away the
original drive to replace it with a new one, when you can have both?

Because its a lot easier to replace a drive than to add another with many system, ****wit child.

Thus I believe it is much more common to add a second hard drive for data than to replace the system drive.

You're just plain wrong, as always.

No, it will not become universal

Corse it will.

- there are several reasons to choose something other than EFI
Nope.

(including unnecessary complexity,

Mindlessly silly. No 'complexity' when its done properly, ****wit child.

compatibility issues,

Mindlessly silly. No 'compatibility issues' when its done properly, ****wit child.

and security and freedom concerns -

Mindlessly silly. No 'security and freedom concerns' when its done properly, ****wit child.

some people are worried that the EFI may try to limit or lock the OS running on the system, meaning the user can't use
the OS of their choice).

Only the pig ignorant fools. You qualify, ****wit child.

The EFI will become more common, but certainly not "universal".

Wrong, as always.

Of course, alternatives for the future (such as newer traditional BIOSes, CoreBoot, etc.) either support GPT now, or
will no doubt do so in the future.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist ****wit children ?

 

[David Brown]

Even silly little ****wit child should be able to find
plenty of examples of that using groups.google.

I've just looked up "Rod Speed" in google - there's some enlightening
stuff there. It looks like you've been spouting the same random insults
for at least twenty years! That's an impressive record - and I guess it
was naive of me to look for some signs of maturity in such a dedicated
troll.

Is there any truth to the rumours that the "Rod Speed" of today is not
the original one? It is said that the old Rod Speed was inventive with
well-aimed flames and insults, rather than the rather lame and general
cut-n-paste comments we see now. Perhaps you just use one of the many
"rodbot" scripts to save time and effort.

 

[Rod Speed]

David Brown wrote

Rod Speed wrote

I've just looked up "Rod Speed" in google - there's some enlightening stuff there.

And you're so stupid that you cant even manage to work out that
EVERY SINGLE ONE is some fool like you thats got ****ed over
very comprehensively indeed, and is STILL desperately licking its
wounds after all this time.

It looks like you've been spouting the same random insults

Nothing random about them, ****wit child.

for at least twenty years!

And well before usenet even existed too.

That's an impressive record - and I guess it was naive of me to look for some signs of maturity in such a dedicated
troll.

Thought that insult up all by yourself did you child ?

Is there any truth to the rumours that the "Rod Speed" of today is not the original one?

Even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be able to
grasp that my style is so distinctive that that isnt even possible.

There's only ever been a single individual that has even been able to get
the best of my lines right, and even he can only do it part of the time.

<reams of your derivative puerile silly shit flushed where it belongs>

 

[Rod Speed]

Indeed. A classic example is Rod's dismissal of the opinion that
having multiple partitions is a better way to organize data - a very
valid opinion, supported by objective reasoning. But beyond those
objective reasons, the simple fact that if the *user* feels *better
organized* using that method, it makes that method *better*.

It's like claiming there's only one "right way" to organize one's closet!

Nothing like.

Of course, Ron^Hd completely discounts those who
feel differently than he does, as "fools" or worse.

He completely dismisses fools like you that cant manage to grasp
that its just as organised with folder trees instead of separate
partitions, and that doesnt have the problem with separate partitions
that its impossible to get the sizes right, free space is scattered over
the partitions, and its dangerous to resize partitions without
a full image backup which most dont have the space to do.

 

[David Brown]

David Brown wrote


And you're so stupid that you cant even manage to work out that
EVERY SINGLE ONE is some fool like you thats got ****ed over
very comprehensively indeed, and is STILL desperately licking its
wounds after all this time.

Do you really think people feel "wounded", insulted or put down by your
posts? I did feel a bit bad the first time - I thought I had somehow
insulted you and I don't like doing that. But you are clearly not
bothered by whatever anyone else writes, and no one is "wounded" by your
posts.

Nothing random about them, ****wit child.

There is certainly nothing logical in them...

And well before usenet even existed too.


Thought that insult up all by yourself did you child ?

Yes I did, actually - I can manage new thoughts without having to
recycle twenty year old posts.

Even a terminal ****wit such as yourself should be able to
grasp that my style is so distinctive that that isnt even possible.

Have you tried any of the rodbots out there? Some of them are pretty
convincing.

 

[YKhan]

This is just my experience and opinion (just like your view, unless you
can reference numbers), but most people do not like to mess with their
"c drive" (non-windows users are a different matter - but they are not
"most people").  They don't like to re-install their OS, or to use
low-level disk utilities to move the OS partition.  But they *do*
understand the concept of running out of disk space for storing photos,
music, downloaded films, etc., and adding a new hard disk is not that hard.

Yeah, but adding an additional hard drive to one of those "most
people" can be a headache too. Most of them are confused by the drive
letter system, and don't know how to change drives to store things. So
even if you add a second hard drive, they'll keep storing everything
in their C drive and still end up with no space left. They'd be much
better off with a Linux-style mountpoint system, where changing drives
is as simple as changing directories. That of course also exists in
Windows, but there are very few "experts" who can set it up like that,
nor think there is any value in setting it up that way. /Experts/
think what could be simpler than drive letters, and /most users/ are
totally freaked out by it.

And of course adding a second drive means you have the combined disk
space of the two drives - why would someone want to throw away the
original drive to replace it with a new one, when you can have both?

Thus I believe it is much more common to add a second hard drive for
data than to replace the system drive.

It is more common for /experts/, not so common for /most people/.

No, it will not become universal - there are several reasons to choose
something other than EFI (including unnecessary complexity,
compatibility issues, and security and freedom concerns - some people
are worried that the EFI may try to limit or lock the OS running on the
system, meaning the user can't use the OS of their choice).  The EFI
will become more common, but certainly not "universal".

Is that a possibility with EFI? I never heard about that.

Of course, alternatives for the future (such as newer traditional
BIOSes, CoreBoot, etc.) either support GPT now, or will no doubt do so
in the future.

What are the other competing systems out there against EFI? And what
chance do they have against an Intel-created standard?

Yousuf Khan

 

[Rod Speed]

David Brown wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Do you really think people feel "wounded", insulted or put down by your posts?

Clearly those who set up a web site devoted entirely to me, and
keep that going for TWENTY YEARS or more, must have done.

I did feel a bit bad the first time - I thought I had
somehow insulted you and I don't like doing that.

Your problem.

But you are clearly not bothered by whatever anyone else writes,

You did manage to get that right.

and no one is "wounded" by your posts.

There is no other viable explanation for someone who sets up a web site
devoted entirely to me, and keep that going for TWENTY YEARS or more.

And plenty who resort to kill files must do too.

There is certainly nothing logical in them...

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

Yes I did, actually

Obvious lie.

- I can manage new thoughts

Thats nothing even remotely resembling anything like a new thought, ****wit child.

without having to recycle twenty year old posts.

Yeah, you just steal insults from others instead.

Have you tried any of the rodbots out there?
Yep.

Some of them are pretty convincing.

Nope. Not one can even manage to get the detail right on even a single responce.

The best of my lines are amazingly infectious and even those who hate me with a
passion end up using them. But still cant manage to get them completely correct.

No one else has ever go anything like the volume discussing me either.

Eat your silly little heart out, child.

 

[Rod Speed]

Yeah, but adding an additional hard drive to one of those "most
people" can be a headache too. Most of them are confused by the drive
letter system, and don't know how to change drives to store things. So
even if you add a second hard drive, they'll keep storing everything
in their C drive and still end up with no space left. They'd be much
better off with a Linux-style mountpoint system, where changing drives
is as simple as changing directories. That of course also exists in
Windows, but there are very few "experts" who can set it up like that,
nor think there is any value in setting it up that way. /Experts/
think what could be simpler than drive letters, and /most users/ are
totally freaked out by it.

Its a lot simpler to just replace the original drive with a much larger
one and thats why the bulk of the professional upgrades do it like that.

It is more common for /experts/, not so common for /most people/.

In fact most people dont ever upgrade at all, just replace the computer.

Is that a possibility with EFI?

Nope, if you mean the lock in claim.

I never heard about that.

Because its pure bullshit.

What are the other competing systems out there against EFI?

There arent any.

And what chance do they have against an Intel-created standard?

None, zero, nada, ziltch.

 

[David Brown]

David Brown wrote


Clearly those who set up a web site devoted entirely to me, and keep
that going for TWENTY YEARS or more, must have done.

You don't think they just find you entertaining? Maybe they also think
others will find the site informative or historically interesting - you
are, after all, in a class of your own in Usenet history.

Your problem.

Ah, here we have an example of your disconnection with the rest of
society. Feeling bad about having accidentally insulted someone is not
a "problem" - it's called *empathy*. It's something us socially
concious humans think of as a good thing.

You did manage to get that right.


There is no other viable explanation for someone who sets up a web
site devoted entirely to me, and keep that going for TWENTY YEARS or
more.

And plenty who resort to kill files must do too.

Kill files are used to avoid time-wasting. You've been in Usenet (and
BBS's before that) for twenty years and you don't understand that?

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

That, I believe, makes my point quite nicely.

Obvious lie.

Again re-enforcing my believe that your insults are random and perhaps
even automated.

Thats nothing even remotely resembling anything like a new thought,
****wit child.


Yeah, you just steal insults from others instead.



Nope. Not one can even manage to get the detail right on even a
single responce.

The best of my lines are amazingly infectious and even those who hate
me with a passion end up using them. But still cant manage to get
them completely correct.

No one else has ever go anything like the volume discussing me
either.

Indeed, you are a character of some fame. I'm not sure it's something
to be proud of, given that almost everything said about you is negative,
but it's an achievement of sorts. Some people like to leave their
little mark in the world by bringing up a family or doing their job
well. Others like to leave a bigger mark by excelling at sport or
publishing popular books. And some people aspire to fame as the most
hated person in Usenet history. Each to his own, I suppose.

 

[David Brown]

Yeah, but adding an additional hard drive to one of those "most
people" can be a headache too. Most of them are confused by the drive

I absolutely agree that "most people" will never open their computer in
the first place. But most of those who *do* open it to add more disk
space will add a second disk, not replace the first one.

In fact, "most people" who run low on disk space will do one of three
things. They will add an external USB hard disk (that's probably the
most likely these days), they will take their PC to a local computer
shop for a new hard disk (and you can practically guarantee that this
will be in addition to the original one, not a replacement), or they
will buy a new computer.

letter system, and don't know how to change drives to store things. So
even if you add a second hard drive, they'll keep storing everything
in their C drive and still end up with no space left. They'd be much

I don't think that's the case any more - people are used to plugging in
flash disks, and understand that the data is on a different disk.

better off with a Linux-style mountpoint system, where changing drives
is as simple as changing directories. That of course also exists in
Windows, but there are very few "experts" who can set it up like that,
nor think there is any value in setting it up that way. /Experts/
think what could be simpler than drive letters, and /most users/ are
totally freaked out by it.

I have seldom seen mounted folders in use on windows systems, even by
experts. I think it is more a cultural difference between typical Linux
users and typical Windows users, combined with the historical
limitations of Windows. Many of today's windows experts learned to use
windows before windows mounted folders or junction points existed.

It is more common for /experts/, not so common for /most people/.

Again, this is all /relative/. I am not saying it is common for "most
people" to add a second hard drive - just that it is /more/ common for
them to do so than to replace the boot drive.

And we are talking about individual users here (home users or small
companies), of course. In a large installation, data will invariably be
stored on centralised servers so disk space on workstations is almost
never an issue - and if it is, it's time to replace the workstation.

Is that a possibility with EFI? I never heard about that.

I came across this link while reading about EFI:
<http://archive.fosdem.org/2007/interview/ronald+g+minnich>

(LinuxBIOS is the old name for what is now coreboot).

I don't know what is actually done in practice, but there is no doubt
that manufacturers could use EFI to limit booting to specific OS's.
There is also no doubt that there are "forces" that want to restrict
people's choices and uses of software on computers - MS would love a
bios system that would only boot Windows systems, if they thought they
could get away with it. And the Mickey Mouse crew would love the idea
of restricting computers to known OS's that could again restrict
software to known programs - it would make it so much easier to enforce
their "rights". Of course, this is all about "trusted" computing to
protect users from viruses, malware, and inferior quality copied media.

EFI is, of course, not the only way to achieve such lockdowns. But it
certainly makes them technically much easier than with traditional
bioses. And the ability to misuse EFI does not make the technology
itself bad.


I think the main issue with the EFI is simply that it is unnecessary -
it is way too big and complex. A replacement for traditional bioses
should really be much simpler, since there is not much it has to do
before starting the OS.

What are the other competing systems out there against EFI? And what
chance do they have against an Intel-created standard?

coreboot is the option I know a little about - it's basically a
specialized Linux system. In some environments, such as large clusters
and HPC, it is very popular - it makes booting and updating systems
hugely faster than a traditional (or EFI) bios. Other than that, I can
think of no reason why current BIOS developers can't simply add GPT
support to their existing software.