Problems installing a new hardrive

[Bazzer Smith]

OK a brief description of what I did I have a newish HP Pavillion
Semperon (939) 3000 system, its existing drive was 80gig and I though
I would 'whack on' a new 250gb drive I had bought.

I have added a new drive before but that was a long time ago
(on a different machine) and I 'forgot' what I did then so I just
set the jumper on the drive to slave and stuck it on the end of
the IDE cable I had. The original cable only had one
connector on so I took a cable from my other computer which
had two connectors on and used that.

Anyway..I put the original drive on the middle connector and the
new drive on the end (I seem to remember position is important?).
Maybe it should be the other way around?
I switched on and booted up but the new drive did not appear
(on "my computer" etc). Thats odd I though, maybe its not connected
correctly, so I powered off and reinserted the power and IDE cable
and powered up again.
This time the computer did not fully boot up, it stopped very early
in some sort of set-up screen, IIRC it said, press F1 for setup,
F10 for recovery, and ESC for something else (I forget), anyway
which ever key I pressed nothing happened :O(
So.... I disconnected the new drive completely and it booted up
as normal, hence I am here askng for help!!!


Maybe I should mentioon that prior to all that I had connected the
drive as a slave to my DVD drive (but that didn't work, the
drive appeared totally non-existant, I am a bit worried that
that might have damaged the drive but I beleive that you
can mixed devices on and IDE cable?

So I am worried now about what to do, Have I omitted something
obvious like formatting the drive? I kind of thought that I would have
to connect the drive to do that and clever old Windows XP would
hold my hand in doing such things.

So what do I do now wise ones? I am in need of assistance.
My primary concern is that the drive is a 'dud'(or that I damaged it
somehow in connecting it, but I have done a lot of 'pissing about'
with formatted drives before and never had any probs), so I want
an easy method of testing if the drive is ****ed or not.

I think I will try setting it to master and then putting it as the only
drive on the
machine and seeing what happens?

Thanks for any help, advice or assistance!!

 

[Bazzer Smith]

OK a brief description of what I did I have a newish HP Pavillion
Semperon (939) 3000 system, its existing drive was 80gig and I though
I would 'whack on' a new 250gb drive I had bought.

I have added a new drive before but that was a long time ago
(on a different machine) and I 'forgot' what I did then so I just
set the jumper on the drive to slave and stuck it on the end of
the IDE cable I had. The original cable only had one
connector on so I took a cable from my other computer which
had two connectors on and used that.

Anyway..I put the original drive on the middle connector and the
new drive on the end (I seem to remember position is important?).
Maybe it should be the other way around?
I switched on and booted up but the new drive did not appear
(on "my computer" etc). Thats odd I though, maybe its not connected
correctly, so I powered off and reinserted the power and IDE cable
and powered up again.
This time the computer did not fully boot up, it stopped very early
in some sort of set-up screen, IIRC it said, press F1 for setup,
F10 for recovery, and ESC for something else (I forget), anyway
which ever key I pressed nothing happened :O(
So.... I disconnected the new drive completely and it booted up
as normal, hence I am here askng for help!!!


Maybe I should mentioon that prior to all that I had connected the
drive as a slave to my DVD drive (but that didn't work, the
drive appeared totally non-existant, I am a bit worried that
that might have damaged the drive but I beleive that you
can mixed devices on and IDE cable?

So I am worried now about what to do, Have I omitted something
obvious like formatting the drive? I kind of thought that I would have
to connect the drive to do that and clever old Windows XP would
hold my hand in doing such things.

So what do I do now wise ones? I am in need of assistance.
My primary concern is that the drive is a 'dud'(or that I damaged it
somehow in connecting it, but I have done a lot of 'pissing about'
with formatted drives before and never had any probs), so I want
an easy method of testing if the drive is ****ed or not.

I think I will try setting it to master and then putting it as the only
drive on the
machine and seeing what happens?

Thanks for any help, advice or assistance!!

Just been reading the manual :O)

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00311110.pdf

If says to use cable select, I had it as slave so I will try that :O)
(I bet it don't work!!)

Make sure the jumper on the new optical drive or

new Parallel ATA hard disk drive is in the CS

(Cable Select) position. Your drive may vary from

the illustration. The Serial ATA hard disk drive does

not use Cable Select.

 

[MikeG]

Is you original master jumpered as "master" or cable select? (adjust
accordingly)
You will not see the new drive until you format it. I would connect only
the new drive and boot from your HDD mfg cd and go from there. If the
format is good, connect master/slave as desired.

 

[Bazzer Smith]

Just been reading the manual :O)

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00311110.pdf

If says to use cable select, I had it as slave so I will try that :O)
(I bet it don't work!!)

Make sure the jumper on the new optical drive or

new Parallel ATA hard disk drive is in the CS

(Cable Select) position. Your drive may vary from

the illustration. The Serial ATA hard disk drive does

not use Cable Select.

Didn't work (as expected), it got past the sreen it hung on
before, but only to a blank (black), with the curser flashing
at the top :O(

 

[Bazzer Smith]

Not sure what the master is, not looked yet.

Regarding formatting the drive, I have "HDD mfg cd", I asume you mean
the CD which came with the PC, well that came with the opperating
system preinstalled, I have no such CD, it doesn't have a floppy drive
either (I seem to remember thats how I formatted the old one (old PC)).

So to put it bluntly "How do I format the f**ker :O)"

Well maybe I am getting somewhere?
There is a floppy on the old computer, would that help?

Also I might have a windows98 CD which I could boot from,
I have no XP disk at all.

Thanks for help by the way.

 

[Rod Speed]

Important to check that it can handle drives over 137G once
you get it going, otherwise it will wrap and wipe your data.

That last is likely the problem now.

With cable select the position determines master and slave.

So you should put the old drive on the end and the new one in the middle.

Yep.

Nope, getting the jumpering wrong wont damage anything.

Yep.

That does need to be done, partition the drive and format it,
but that wont produce the symptoms you are seeing and the
drive should be visible on the black bios screen at boot time
if the Pav lets you see that, some do, some dont. And the
new drive should be visible in Disk Management for partitioning.

Yes.

Only in the sense that it will format auto once you partition it.

Try a modern 80 wire cable and cable select jumpering of the drive.

Wont be that.

Or that.

Likely not with one jumpered cable select and the other slave tho.

You can try with just that new drive on the original cable.

Obviously you wont be able to run XP, but it should
boot and start whining about non system disk.

Yes, that will work.

FAR too radical.

Bet it will with the correct cable.

Didn't work (as expected),

Should have. Most likely the cable isnt a proper modern cable select cable.

it got past the sreen it hung on before, but only to a blank (black), with the curser
flashing at the top :O(

Try a proper modern 80 wire ribbon cable.

Few comments added to the original.

 

[Rod Speed]

Dont bother, just get it booting XP with the new drive
included and format it using XP in Disk Management.

 

[Bazzer Smith]

Important to check that it can handle drives over 137G once
you get it going, otherwise it will wrap and wipe your data.

I would have though so, its a fairly recent system (bought new this
year). Not sure how to check, the (sh*t) HP 'manual' says nothing.

That last is likely the problem now.

Eh? The cable is good, it works on old machine.

With cable select the position determines master and slave.

I never checked the original drive I assumed it was set to master.
Just had a look now, and it has two jumpers on it.
There is nothing on the usual master setting (nearest the IDE cable)
Then the next one has a jumper, then a gap then another jumper.
Its an hitachi Deskstar, that all I can see without taking it out.

Might be this one
http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=53694&cat_id=632
It says the settings are listed above jumpers but I can't read in the
machine, looks like they are in chineese!!!
Will have to take drive out later.

So you should put the old drive on the end and the new one in the middle.


Yep.

I though so, but the cable fitted easier the wrong way around :O)

Nope, getting the jumpering wrong wont damage anything.


That does need to be done, partition the drive and format it,
but that wont produce the symptoms you are seeing and the
drive should be visible on the black bios screen at boot time
if the Pav lets you see that, some do, some dont. And the
new drive should be visible in Disk Management for partitioning.


Only in the sense that it will format auto once you partition it.


Try a modern 80 wire cable and cable select jumpering of the drive.

Will try :O) not counted the wires yet :O)

Wont be that.

I fooking hope not :O|

Or that.


Likely not with one jumpered cable select and the other slave tho.


You can try with just that new drive on the original cable.

Obviously you wont be able to run XP, but it should
boot and start whining about non system disk.

OK will try tomorrow.

Yes, that will work.


FAR too radical.


Bet it will with the correct cable.



Should have. Most likely the cable isnt a proper modern cable select
cable.

True was the cable I scavenged from the old machine, I assumed they would be
the same, and why shouldn't it be???
Anyway the original cable only has one connection on it but I could
try theDVD drive one which has two?

Try a proper modern 80 wire ribbon cable.

Few comments added to the original.

Thanks very much for your help.

No doubt I will be in need of futher assistance tomorrow ;O)
(knowing my luck).

 

[Bazzer Smith]

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/d180gxp/d180gxpjum.htm


Looks like is is CS according to the above (Assuming correct drive,
will check tomorrow, too tired now)

 

[Rod Speed]

I would have though so, its a fairly recent system (bought new this year).

Yeah, should be fine.

Not sure how to check,
http://www.48bitlba.com/hdinfo.htm

the (sh*t) HP 'manual' says nothing.

Probably says online.

Eh? The cable is good, it works on old machine.

Yes, but it probably isnt a cable select cable
and its likely only 40 wire anyway if its old.

I never checked the original drive I assumed it was set to master.

Unlikely given the HP comment. Most modern systems
have the drives jumpered cable select now.

Just had a look now, and it has two jumpers on it.
There is nothing on the usual master setting (nearest the IDE cable)
Then the next one has a jumper, then a gap then another jumper.

Yep, its jumpered cable select.
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/7k80/7k80jum.htm

Its an hitachi Deskstar, that all I can see without taking it out.

You can see which drive it is using Everest.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181

Might be this one
http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=53694&cat_id=632
It says the settings are listed above jumpers but I can't read in the
machine, looks like they are in chineese!!!

Likely its this one
http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/si...i_baseMenuID=3d0cb215112b6934ab937c27aac4f0a0

Will have to take drive out later.

No need.

I though so, but the cable fitted easier the wrong way around :O)

Yeah, often the case, thats the main downside with cable select.

Will try :O) not counted the wires yet :O)

Its obvious at a glance, no need to count. Compare it with the original cable.

I fooking hope not :O|

OK will try tomorrow.

True was the cable I scavenged from the old machine, I assumed they would be the same,
and why shouldn't it be???

They are usually 40 wire cables and the change to cable select
cables happened at the same time of the change to 80 wire cables.

Anyway the original cable only has one connection on it but I could try theDVD drive one
which has two?
Yep.

Thanks very much for your help.

No probs.

No doubt I will be in need of futher assistance tomorrow ;O)
(knowing my luck).

You should give a good beating with the largest waddy you
can find, its crucial to make it clear to PCs who is the boss.

 

[Rod Speed]

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/d180gxp/d180gxpjum.htm

Looks like is is CS according to the above
Yep.

(Assuming correct drive,

They're mostly all the same for that era.

will check tomorrow, too tired now)

No need, since the HP docs say its jumpered cable select,
that diagram says its cable select, most of the hitachis of
that era have the same jumper settings, thats near enough.

 

[Bazzer Smith]

Yeah, should be fine.


Probably says online.



Yes, but it probably isnt a cable select cable
and its likely only 40 wire anyway if its old.



Unlikely given the HP comment. Most modern systems
have the drives jumpered cable select now.


Yep, its jumpered cable select.
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/7k80/7k80jum.htm


You can see which drive it is using Everest.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181


Likely its this one
http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/si...i_baseMenuID=3d0cb215112b6934ab937c27aac4f0a0


No need.



Yeah, often the case, thats the main downside with cable select.



Its obvious at a glance, no need to count. Compare it with the original
cable.





They are usually 40 wire cables and the change to cable select
cables happened at the same time of the change to 80 wire cables.



No probs.


You should give a good beating with the largest waddy you
can find, its crucial to make it clear to PCs who is the boss.

Indeed.

Anyway this seems to be the beast.


Aida32 (similar to Everest probably) tell me it is a HDS728080PLAT20
I probaly have Everest on my PC somewhere but I will never find it - lol!!!

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/7k80/7k80jum.htm

I will have another try tomorrow cos I think I will need a new cable
anyway.
Thanks once again.

 

[Mabden]

Ignore all that crap and make sure you have EnableBigLBA in your registry.
It's under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE|SYSTEM or something - go to M$ and search for
it. Otherwise, you can't see all the drive and you'll corrupt what's there.

-Mabden

 

[kony]

I would have though so, its a fairly recent system (bought new this
year). Not sure how to check, the (sh*t) HP 'manual' says nothing.

It supports drives over 137GB.

 

[Bazzer Smith]

Indeed.

Anyway this seems to be the beast.


Aida32 (similar to Everest probably) tell me it is a HDS728080PLAT20
I probaly have Everest on my PC somewhere but I will never find it -
lol!!!

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/7k80/7k80jum.htm

I will have another try tomorrow cos I think I will need a new cable
anyway.
Thanks once again.

Actually I don't need a cable, cos the old cable is in use at the moment :O)

 

[Bazzer Smith]

Dont bother, just get it booting XP with the new drive
included and format it using XP in Disk Management.

Finally got some where, I gave up with the cable select madness
and set the old drive as master and new one as slave.
That almost worked by Disk Management said it was 32gig
not 250, anyway I found the correct way to use it as slave was
with no jumper at all (the labeling confused me).
Comes up as 250 meg now in DM.
I will do the rest later when I decide if I should partition
it or what ever?
Any idea on that matter? I will probably be using it to store
mainly video and music.
Also I may disconnect the drive a lot so it is not wasteing
power.

 

[Rod Speed]

Finally got some where, I gave up with the cable select madness
and set the old drive as master and new one as slave.

Thats not desirable if its a 40 wire cable, you need a modern
80 wire cable to get the higher ATA speeds to the drives.

That almost worked by Disk Management said it was 32gig not 250,

You must have managed to jumper it to limit the drive size to 32G.
That option is available with most drives because of the older Award
bios fault that locked the system up when the drive was over 32G.

anyway I found the correct way to use it as slave was with no jumper at all (the
labeling confused me).

That isnt the correct way with that particular drive.

Comes up as 250 meg now in DM.

I will do the rest later when I decide if I should partition it or what ever?
Any idea on that matter? I will probably be using it to store mainly video and music.

I prefer to have a single partition for the entire drive, otherwise
free space gets scattered between the partitions.

Also I may disconnect the drive a lot so it is not wasteing power.

That wont make much difference, most modern drives only take about 5W idle.

 

[Bazzer Smith]

Thats not desirable if its a 40 wire cable, you need a modern
80 wire cable to get the higher ATA speeds to the drives.

Well I shall have to get one later, I was just pretty happy
thatI could detect the disk, I guess the 40 wires is why the
cable select thing didn't work?
Anyway I have 1.25 GIG of ram installed so I am not
experiencing to much disk activity currently:O)

You must have managed to jumper it to limit the drive size to 32G.
That option is available with most drives because of the older Award
bios fault that locked the system up when the drive was over 32G.


That isnt the correct way with that particular drive.

I think it is, as least with it configured s a slave drive not cable select.
I read elsewhere someone uing the same settings as me, on a PVR?
I think he had some other probs though

http://www.mpeg-playcenter.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6284&start=60

I prefer to have a single partition for the entire drive, otherwise
free space gets scattered between the partitions.

Yes thinking about it I might as well do that. I can't see any advantage
in partitions except perhaps if I want to run another operating system?
(Linux?).

That wont make much difference, most modern drives only take about 5W
idle.

Well maybe I won't bother then, but it is easy to remove, it
just slides in its screws (tookme a while to figure that one out.)

Thanks once again!

 

[kony]

Finally got some where, I gave up with the cable select madness
and set the old drive as master and new one as slave.
That almost worked by Disk Management said it was 32gig
not 250, anyway I found the correct way to use it as slave was
with no jumper at all (the labeling confused me).
Comes up as 250 meg now in DM.

It seems possible you had a jumper on the capacity limit
pins.

I will do the rest later when I decide if I should partition
it or what ever?

If choosing between partition or whatever, it depends a lot
on what, whatever is.

Any idea on that matter? I will probably be using it to store
mainly video and music.

If the only purpose is semi-large music and video files, no
point partitioning it for that alone. If on the other hand
you were working with these files as-in editing, it might be
useful to partition off the first, faster portion of the
drive to keep the I/O faster... but for playback purposes,
it won't matter with the typical compressions used in
popular formats.

Also I may disconnect the drive a lot so it is not wasteing
power.

Why not let power management do what it was meant to, spin
down the drive after a period of inactivity? Relatively
speaking, an asleep drive doesn't use much power.

 

[Rod Speed]

Well I shall have to get one later, I was just pretty happy thatI could detect the disk,
I guess the 40 wires is why the cable select thing didn't work?

Yes, those arent usually cable select cables.

Anyway I have 1.25 GIG of ram installed so I am not experiencing to much disk activity
currently:O)

Yeah, it will work, just not as well as a proper 80 wire cable.

Usually most obvious when copying files around and doing images etc.

I think it is, as least with it configured s a slave drive not cable select.

Nope, thats not even a listed jumper config in
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/7k80/7k80jum.htm

I read elsewhere someone uing the same settings as me, on a PVR?

Sure, it obviously works, but it isnt a legal jumper config.

Its always dangerous to use an unlisted jumper config, that can bite.

I think he had some other probs though
http://www.mpeg-playcenter.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6284&start=60

Cant see the relevance of that to your config.

Yes thinking about it I might as well do that. I can't see any advantage in partitions
except perhaps if I want to run another operating system? (Linux?).

Yeah, thats the main situation where it can make sense.

Particularly as you would normally use NTFS formatting so you can handle
video files over 2G and linux doesnt do writes to NTFS very well at all.

Well maybe I won't bother then, but it is easy to remove, it
just slides in its screws (tookme a while to figure that one out.)

Thanks once again!

No problem, thats what these technical groups are about.