Problem with new P4 3.06 & win98se installation

[Mouse]

Hi,


Don't quite agree on this one, I have a dual boot system and although I
mainly use win 2k, it also has win 98 installed, and has more than 512MB
of RAM, no problems whatsover not even during installation ...

 

[127.0.0.1]

X-No-Archive: yes

Hi

EXACTLY when does it lock up? Precision here might be critical.
Does it make it to the desktop?
Have you tried creating a bootlog (F8 menu selection after the POST
screen).

It locks up just as soon as everything is loaded up..and it makes it to the
desktop.
It even does this from a fresh install on another hard disk.. when you
supposed to get control
of the desktop thats when it will freeze.

Its not something loading from any of the system files as I used msconfig
and disabled everything and it
still crashes.

I just changed the CPU and it works again - so win98 doesnt like the new
CPU.

It could be the PNPDRV in windows or ACPI driver but im not sure.

... so it's overclocked. First thing to do is obvious enough,
UN-overclock it. Reduce the FSB speed to spec for the motherboard, that
is, 100MHz, and see if it still crashes. Nevermind that the CPU will be
underclocked for the moment, we need to establish whether the FSB o'c is
an issue. Performance may be relatively poor with the underclocked memory
bus anyway, you might consider a newer motherboard & memory.

Not exactly overclocked its the correct speed for my CPU.

But I tried it anyway with a normal 100mhz bus x 23 to underclock it to
2.3ghz and no luck
still crashes at the same place.

The bootlog is useless :

"Init = Final USER
InitDone = Final USER
Init = Installable Drivers
InitDone = Installable Drivers
Init = TSRQuery
InitDone = TSRQuery
[000375CA] Starting Unknown (HTREE\RESERVED\0)
[000375CA] Started Unknown (HTREE\RESERVED\0)
[000375CB] Enumerating Unknown (HTREE\RESERVED\0)
[000375CB] Enumerated Unknown (HTREE\RESERVED\0)
Terminate = User
Terminate = Query Drivers
EndTerminate = Query Drivers
Terminate = Unload Network
EndTerminate = Unload Network
Terminate = Reset Display
EndTerminate = Reset Display
EndTerminate = User"

I dont really want to buy another motherboard just yet but I might have to
do to get it to work.

I dont understand why it works in safe mode and why XP works.... its a hard
problem to track down.

Thanks for your help.

 

[kony]

X-No-Archive: yes

Hi


It locks up just as soon as everything is loaded up..and it makes it to the
desktop.
It even does this from a fresh install on another hard disk.. when you
supposed to get control
of the desktop thats when it will freeze.

Its not something loading from any of the system files as I used msconfig
and disabled everything and it
still crashes.

I just changed the CPU and it works again - so win98 doesnt like the new
CPU.

It could be the PNPDRV in windows or ACPI driver but im not sure.

Just changing the CPU shouldn't affect the PNPDRV or ACPI, AFAIK.
Someone has mentioned the NDIS.VXD file, but otherwise I don't recall
other issues relating to the CPU speed. I still feel it's possible that
the motherboard is instable due to bus overclock.

Not exactly overclocked its the correct speed for my CPU.

The motherboard is overclocked. When overclocked it has potential for
causing problems even if CPU isn't overclocked.

But I tried it anyway with a normal 100mhz bus x 23 to underclock it to
2.3ghz and no luck, still crashes at the same place.

I dont really want to buy another motherboard just yet but I might have to
do to get it to work.

I dont understand why it works in safe mode and why XP works.... its a hard
problem to track down.

Thanks for your help.

Afraid I can't be much help, never had a P4 box fail at a clean Win98
install but run other OS OK, and I'm out of ideas.

 

[Onideus Mad Hatter]

Just changing the CPU shouldn't affect the PNPDRV or ACPI, AFAIK.
Someone has mentioned the NDIS.VXD file, but otherwise I don't recall
other issues relating to the CPU speed. I still feel it's possible that
the motherboard is instable due to bus overclock.



The motherboard is overclocked. When overclocked it has potential for
causing problems even if CPU isn't overclocked.



Afraid I can't be much help, never had a P4 box fail at a clean Win98
install but run other OS OK, and I'm out of ideas.

He might try to update his BIOS...or try and isolate EXACTLY what it is that's freezing his system.
It'd be a lil tedious, easier to just use WinXP, but he could do it. Just find out everything
that's running and being loaded, subtract out everything that's running and loaded in safe mode
(since it works in safe mode) and then check all the rest one by one. For starters, I'd look at the
graphics card/driver. Throttle it back to 16 colors and no accelerated functions and see if that
makes any sort of difference.

 

[127.0.0.1]

X-No-Archive: yes

He might try to update his BIOS...or try and isolate EXACTLY what it is that's freezing his system.
It'd be a lil tedious, easier to just use WinXP, but he could do it. Just find out everything
that's running and being loaded, subtract out everything that's running and loaded in safe mode
(since it works in safe mode) and then check all the rest one by one. For starters, I'd look at the
graphics card/driver. Throttle it back to 16 colors and no accelerated functions and see if that
makes any sort of difference.

Think im going to have to give up on this problem.

I just did a format C: and re-installed windows98se .. just when it finished
everything and was about to run
again it locked up at the same spot.. so im sure its a hardware problem.
Damn P4 3ghz!!

I dont think there is anything more I can try to get it to work.. I have the
latest BIOS.

Time to buy a new motherboard - anyone recommend one ?

 

[David Maynard]

X-No-Archive: yes



that's freezing his system.


find out everything


and loaded in safe mode


starters, I'd look at the


functions and see if that




Think im going to have to give up on this problem.

I just did a format C: and re-installed windows98se .. just when it finished
everything and was about to run
again it locked up at the same spot.. so im sure its a hardware problem.
Damn P4 3ghz!!

I dont think there is anything more I can try to get it to work.. I have the
latest BIOS.

Time to buy a new motherboard - anyone recommend one ?

Out of curiosity, why are you so dead set on running Win98se, vs XP, that
you'd go to the length of buying another motherboard?

A few comments from other messages in the thread.

You seem surprised that safe mode makes a difference. Safe mode disables
all hardware specific drivers and backs down to generic ones. I.E. no
display acceleration, no fancy chipset IDE drivers, etc. It's 'bare bones'
functionality.

That it fails when the 'fancy drivers' are being used suggests that some
driver is not operating properly with the hardware. However, since WinXP
appears to work that would suggest it isn't the hardware.

The common 'difference' between the three seems to be the hardware specific
drivers in Win98. It works without them and it works with WinXP drivers.

Win98 is an older operating system. Where are you getting the drivers for
the hardware that Windows98 can't know about because it didn't exist when
windows98 was distributed? Are you 100% sure that you've installed all the
correct drivers (e.g. chipset) for windows98?

A lockup just as it goes to the desktop sounds like a display problem. That
could be either the display drier itself or the chipset AGP port drivers.
It could also be other drivers, such as the CPU/PCI bridge (AGP display
commands come through the PCI bus), etc. I.E. Anything that is in the loop
for the display.

Another item of curiosity: Why a hyperthreading CPU on a motherboard that
doesn't support hyperthreading?

 

[Onideus Mad Hatter]

X-No-Archive: yes



Think im going to have to give up on this problem.

I just did a format C: and re-installed windows98se .. just when it finished
everything and was about to run
again it locked up at the same spot.. so im sure its a hardware problem.
Damn P4 3ghz!!

I dont think there is anything more I can try to get it to work.. I have the
latest BIOS.

Time to buy a new motherboard - anyone recommend one ?

You're going to buy a new motherboard eh? ...and you actually think that's gonna somehow fix yer
lil Win98 problem?

*shakes head*

Why not just upgrade to WinXP? Sure it takes more effort to neuter the little bitch, but once you
do you'll find it to be a LOT more stable. Not to mention all the other perks.

 

[half_pint]

I dont understand why it works in safe mode and why XP works.... its a hard
problem to track down.

Thanks for your help.

To me the answer seems fairly obvious ( although I am no expert).
Safemode uses a minimal set of drivers
So obviously your new processor will not work with some of your
sysyems drivers.
The only question which is drivers. I presume it is easy to find
which one if you know what you are doing (I don't without
trying).
( all you need to do is to selectively load the drivers?)
XP works presumeably because it uses different drivers.
As has been pointed out changing you mobo will make know
difference as you know you mobo is fine as you have had
it running in XP.

 

[Trent©]

Think im going to have to give up on this problem.

I just did a format C: and re-installed windows98se .. just when it finished
everything and was about to run
again it locked up at the same spot.. so im sure its a hardware problem.
Damn P4 3ghz!!

I dont think there is anything more I can try to get it to work.. I have the
latest BIOS.

Aren't you able to see all the posts? The solution has been given to
you. Download and apply the patch.

Time to buy a new motherboard - anyone recommend one ?

You said it works okay with XP...so how can the problem be with the
motherboard?

The problem is with 98.


Have a nice week...

Trent

What do you call a smart blonde?
A golden retriever.

 

[Trent©]

To me the answer seems fairly obvious ( although I am no expert).
Safemode uses a minimal set of drivers

And DIFFERENT drivers. That's the real reason.


Have a nice week...

Trent

What do you call a smart blonde?
A golden retriever.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...

Out of curiosity, why are you so dead set on running Win98se, vs
XP, that you'd go to the length of buying another motherboard?

Maybe he wants convenient direct access to serial and parallel
ports. Maybe he doesn't want to accede to the XP EULA, giving
Bill et cie. unlimited snooping and editorial rights on his
machine, not to mention the right to force him to upgrade at his
expense and their desire.

 

[David Maynard]

David Maynard wrote:

... snip ...



Maybe he wants convenient direct access to serial and parallel
ports. Maybe he doesn't want to accede to the XP EULA, giving
Bill et cie. unlimited snooping and editorial rights on his
machine, not to mention the right to force him to upgrade at his
expense and their desire.

Thank you for the editorial but I wasn't asking whether YOU liked Bill
Gates; I was asking him why HE wanted to run Windows 98.

 

[Lenroc]

Thank you for the editorial but I wasn't asking whether YOU liked Bill
Gates; I was asking him why HE wanted to run Windows 98.

If you wanted to ask him personally, you could've sent an email...

 

[David Maynard]

If you wanted to ask him personally, you could've sent an email...

That's one way. Another is to speak to him via the newsgroup.

 

[CBFalconer]

That's one way. Another is to speak to him via the newsgroup.

No it isn't. Personal mail should go via direct e-mail, wherever
possible, and not pollute any newsgroup.

 

[127.0.0.1]

X-No-Archive: yes

Out of curiosity, why are you so dead set on running Win98se, vs XP, that
you'd go to the length of buying another motherboard?

I have all my programs and settings already set up on win 98.

What can XP do that I need than Windows 98SE cant ? It offers
me nothing apart from a prettier GUI. They are both as stable as each
other and my XP machine crashes just as much as my win98 one.

A few comments from other messages in the thread.

You seem surprised that safe mode makes a difference. Safe mode disables
all hardware specific drivers and backs down to generic ones. I.E. no
display acceleration, no fancy chipset IDE drivers, etc. It's 'bare bones'
functionality.

That it fails when the 'fancy drivers' are being used suggests that some
driver is not operating properly with the hardware. However, since WinXP
appears to work that would suggest it isn't the hardware.

The common 'difference' between the three seems to be the hardware specific
drivers in Win98. It works without them and it works with WinXP drivers.

Win98 is an older operating system. Where are you getting the drivers for
the hardware that Windows98 can't know about because it didn't exist when
windows98 was distributed? Are you 100% sure that you've installed all the
correct drivers (e.g. chipset) for windows98?

I never get the chance to install any drivers, it crashes when that stage
comes up on a
fresh install.

A lockup just as it goes to the desktop sounds like a display problem. That
could be either the display drier itself or the chipset AGP port drivers.
It could also be other drivers, such as the CPU/PCI bridge (AGP display
commands come through the PCI bus), etc. I.E. Anything that is in the loop
for the display.

The graphics card is the only thing I cant eliminate from this problem
because I dont
have another spare one around.

Another item of curiosity: Why a hyperthreading CPU on a motherboard that
doesn't support hyperthreading?

I needed to upgrade the CPU I managed to get cheap 3ghz - didnt specifically
look
for HT it just came extra with it.

 

[kony]

I never get the chance to install any drivers, it crashes when that stage
comes up on a
fresh install.

Did you install that newest NDIS.VXD patch I linked?
If for some reason it won't install from safe mode, you could just extract
the NDIS.VXD file on (or copy it from) another system, like onto a floppy,
then transfer it at dos prompt... should be copied into \windows\system\
folder.

The graphics card is the only thing I cant eliminate from this problem
because I dont
have another spare one around.

Set it to standard VGA if you haven't already (can be done in safe mode)
then it's removed from doubt.

 

[David Maynard]

No it isn't.

Yes, it is.

Personal mail should go via direct e-mail, wherever
possible, and not pollute any newsgroup.

It is not 'pollution' to reply to someone, as I am doing with you, nor is
it 'pollution' to ask someone a question.

That is what newsgroups are for.

 

[CBFalconer]

Yes, it is.


It is not 'pollution' to reply to someone, as I am doing with
you, nor is it 'pollution' to ask someone a question.

That is what newsgroups are for.

Topical discussions, including topicallity, are one thing. Note
the word "personal" in the above. You started by implying that my
theories as to the OPs reasons were unwelcome because your message
was directed at one particular party. It was and is not; anything
posted to a newsgroup is for public consumption.

 

[David Maynard]

X-No-Archive: yes




I have all my programs and settings already set up on win 98.

If you did an upgrade those setting should remain, except for programs that
might be incompatible with WinXP.

Although, with all the talk of 'fresh installs' I'm a bit confused on how
those settings are 'already set up'.

What can XP do that I need than Windows 98SE cant ? It offers
me nothing apart from a prettier GUI. They are both as stable as each
other and my XP machine crashes just as much as my win98 one.

I'm not trying to 'sell' XP but I think your assessment of stability is
incorrect. Win2K and XP are, in general, much more stable than the Win9x
family so if your WinXP machine is crashing 'just as much' I'd suggest you
have a different problem than stability of the O.S. For example, and I'm
not saying this is necessarily the case with your 'other' machine, the
'stability' of an O.S. can't 'fix' a hardware problem. "System" stability
is a combination of things with the O.S. being only one of them.

But, to the real issue, you have a CPU/motherboard combo that apparently
works fine under WinXP but not Windows98. Regardless of your impression
with the 'other' machine, it would seem clear that XP is 'more stable' with
the 3 gig P4 than Windows98, at least without some 'fix' that has, so far,
been elusive.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying windows 98 is 'bad'. I've got 3 or 4
machines still using win98se myself; mainly for compatibility with some
hardware that WindowsXP doesn't support. I was just wondering why it is
worth 'money', to buy another motherboard, just to keep Windows98 when you
apparently have a workable solution already in hand: Windows XP.

You might also want to consider that Windows 98 is becoming obsolete.
You're a bit in luck because Microsoft extended secondary support till June
2006 but it will become increasingly common for new software to not support
it. Doesn't matter much, of course, if all you want to run on it is what
you've already got but, for example, Office 2003 won't install on it and
neither will Adobe Premier Pro, etc.

I never get the chance to install any drivers, it crashes when that stage
comes up on a
fresh install.

It doesn't ask for the driver disks for 'unknown' hardware it's detected
during the install?

The graphics card is the only thing I cant eliminate from this problem
because I dont
have another spare one around.

Change it to the generic VGA driver in safe mode and then see if it will
boot into normal mode with that one.

Although, as I think back over the thread, you said windows98 WAS working
on it with the old processor and that the only thing different is the 3 gig
P4? I'd put that ndis fix in that kony found straight off. Just copy it
into \windows\system\, overwriting the one that's there, in safe mode.

I needed to upgrade the CPU I managed to get cheap 3ghz - didnt specifically
look
for HT it just came extra with it.

Ah. OK.

Now THAT might be an inducement to get a new motherboard, to use the
hyperthreading, but then you'd need to run XP for that too.