Price of PCs as Vista nears?

  • Thread starter Thread starter - Bobb -
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LO Benjamin-- These are for your viewing pleasure--but you have to "read
them." Enjoy.

You should start reading a few papers. Try www.nytimes.com/tech and
www.washingtonpost.com/tech
and www.nytimes.com/business

You missed a number of articles on Dell that butress exactly what Bobb
said.

Benjamin the date on the first article I link for you is July 11, 2006--is
that current enough for you--it's today's NY Times--What do it read like to
you Benjamin?

http://www.nytimes.com/cnet/CNET_2100-1005_3-6092728.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

July 11, 2006
Dell set to change consumer pricing
Tom Krazit, for News.com
Apparently, the price is wrong at Dell.

The company plans to announce "a major pricing initative" for consumers and
small business customers on Thursday, it said in a press release distributed
Monday. Further details were not immediately available, but Ro Parra, senior
vice president and general manager of Dell's new Home and Small Business
Group, will lead a conference call.

Dell has been looking to jump-start its consumer business this year.
Although enterprise customers account for 85 percent of its business, the
company has sought ways to expand its presence among home users of
technology. As the PC market share leader, Dell has tried to get its PC
customers to purchase other electronic gear, like televisions and printers,
with mixed degrees of success.

As a whole, however, the company has blamed the consumer business for much
of the earnings shortfalls that have stifled Dell's runaway growth.


CEO Kevin Rollins blamed some of the shortfall on increased sales to the
unprofitable low end of the PC market as the company focused on maintaining
market share. But a resurgent Hewlett-Packard has caused problems for Dell.
A mounting number of service complaints also has forced the company to
belatedly improve its technical support operation.


Thursday's pricing initative will probably look to recapture some of that
lost momentum. Dell cut prices on a number of desktops and notebooks earlier
this year as stalwart partner Intel cut its own prices on certain chips.
Intel is also planning price cuts during the upcoming quarter as it gets set
to launch its Conroe desktop processor.

June 15, 2006 Falling Short of A+
By DAMON DARLIN

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/15/t...24000&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

ROUND ROCK, Tex., June 9 - Kevin B. Rollins, the chief executive of Dell,
does not want to dwell on what has gone wrong for the last year at his
company, the world's largest computer maker. He calls it "wallowing."

When pressed for an explanation of why revenue growth has slowed drastically
and why profits have fallen, his explanation is short. "We got a little too
far ahead on profit, and that allowed competitors to sneak in," he said in
an interview at the company's headquarters here, referring to Dell's
profit-margin goals. "Our competitors got better, and that allowed them to
get strong."

How could this happen on the watch of a former Bain & Company consultant who
prides himself on measuring everything and on meticulous execution? "We just
don't know," said Mr. Rollins, who has held the top job since July 2004.

Though the company has faltered, for the first time growing more slowly than
the rest of the PC industry, it is not a crisis, said Mr. Rollins. "It's not
anywhere near that," he said. Nonetheless, Mr. Rollins is not being blasé
about the very real problems facing Dell, which recorded revenue last year
of $55.9 billion. He is pushing the company to act quickly and aggressively
to fix its problems lest they get bigger. There is truth in the law of big
numbers, he said, which states that it is harder for a multibillion-dollar
company to grow at the rate a multimillion-dollar company grows.

Dell will be growing more slowly, he said, but it will still grow faster
than the rest of the industry, improve profitability and take market share
from competitors.

Joseph A. Marengi, Dell's senior vice president for the Americas, said:
"There is a feeling of 'let's get this back to where it should be.' It's
basic business, but at the end of the day there is a sense of urgency."

One problem was of Dell's own making: the deterioration of its customer
service. It has thrown a lot of money at that problem very quickly, more
than $100 million in the last few months, to answer consumers' questions
quickly.

Its other major problem is more vexing. Dell does not have a major cost
advantage in low-priced notebook computers. "That's where our advantage has
been a little lower, and that's where the growth has been," said James M.
Schneider, Dell's chief financial officer. The company has to find a way to
squeeze more costs out of a procurement and manufacturing system that is
already world-renowned as the leanest in the industry.

Mr. Rollins insists that the company was not complacent. "We pushed some
elements faster than we should have," he said, comparing the situation to
that of an A-plus student who merely gets an A. It is still a great
performance, but everyone is nonetheless disappointed. Mr. Schneider agreed,
saying, "Once someone misses who never misses, there is concern."

The sense of urgency that Mr. Rollins is trying to instill comes at a time
when Dell's share price has been in steady decline, hovering lately around
$25, a loss of about 40 percent since last July. It is a long way from the
heights of almost $60 achieved in 2000, before the stock fell to barely $16
after the technology boom collapsed.

Wall Street is still wary. A. M. Sacconaghi, an analyst with Sanford C.
Bernstein & Company, said that Mr. Rollins's "articulation of a series of
steps and a plan is a plus." He also said, "The company has misestimated its
fortunes before, so there is some healthy skepticism." Mr. Sacconaghi said
he thought that the company would have been better off solving its problems
with customer service and improving product design before it started cutting
prices to increase sales.

To reverse its recent setbacks, Dell is now willing to question just about
anything - even breaking longtime exclusive allegiances with a major
supplier like Intel.

Dell announced last month that it would begin using chips from Intel's
rival, Advanced Micro Devices, in one of its high-end servers. Asked if the
company would switch to A.M.D. processors for some of its PC's, Mr. Rollins
would answer only with a wink. Glen Yeung, an analyst with Citigroup Global
Markets, has said Dell would do so by September.

Dell's exclusive use of Intel processors has lately appeared short-sighted.
The fastest-growing segment of the notebook market, which is the
fastest-growing segment of the PC market, has been for machines with
Advanced Micro chips, Mr. Marengi said. Other companies, most notably
Hewlett-Packard, were able to offer lower-priced notebooks because they used
Advanced Micro.

Meanwhile, the decline in computer prices took a toll on customer service,
long a hallmark of the Dell model. The company found it harder to justify
the kind of service it had provided for $1,000 PC's when those systems were
selling for $350. So it decided to stop fixing certain kinds of problems,
mostly related to software, spam and viruses. It decided to answer more of
its customers' questions from call centers overseas, and long waits became
common.

The economies made sense on paper because individual consumers account for
only 15 percent of Dell's business. But as complaints mounted, Mr. Rollins
ordered a reversal. "We will do whatever is necessary to get it fixed," he
said. He moved the company's manufacturing wizard, Richard Hunter, to
customer service and asked him to apply the methods of employee empowerment
to call centers, calling out for help from specialists the moment there is
an unmanageable problem. Dell quickly provided staff members for new call
centers in North America.

Mr. Rollins sees a new service, DellConnect, as a technology that could
solve customer woes and save the company money at the same time. A call
center employee asks a customer with a troubled PC whether a Dell technician
can take over the machine remotely via a high-speed Internet connection. The
technician then diagnoses and fixes as much of the problem as possible.

Mr. Rollins said that DellConnect, which was in testing until early this
month, had been used 450,000 times and that 80 percent of problems were
resolved. Here is the part Mr. Rollins really liked: 95 percent of customers
were left satisfied.

It is hard to argue that Dell ever got complacent about costs. "We've been
at this a long time," said Glenn E. Neland, Dell's senior vice president and
chief procurement officer. Two years ago, Dell eked out $1.8 billion in cost
savings. Last year, it squeezed out 22 percent more, or $2.2 billion. This
year, Mr. Rollins wants Mr. Neland to find an additional $3 billion, or 36
percent more than last year. Mr. Rollins does not want it done the easy way,
with layoffs. "It gets harder and harder to find it," Mr. Neland said.

Instead, the market's shift to notebooks, which Dell makes in China just as
its competitors do, erased much of its cost advantage. "We'd have our thumb
on all of the supply and all of the cost," Mr. Neland said.

Five years ago, the cost of assembling the PC's motherboard, which contains
the processor and other main electronics, was $20. With a supply base in
China, a better knowledge of component costs and of how overseas assemblers
operate, and by increasing competition among them, Dell got the cost down to
$5. The company might be able to squeeze more out of that area, but the
gains will be small. It has to look elsewhere.

The savings are not necessarily in the hardware. For instance, Dell shipped
computers to customers in three boxes, one each for the computer, the
monitor and the peripherals. That was great for the individual customers,
but made little sense for its business customers, who were getting up to 500
computers at a time. So Dell began packing 16 chassis or eight flat-panel
monitors in a single box. Customers liked it better, too, because they had
fewer empty boxes to dispose of.

Mr. Rollins is presiding over meetings on how to find several more major
sources of savings. "Kevin leads a discussion," Mr. Neland said. "He is not
a table-pounder. But once we have a level set, he can be very intense." Mr.
Neland said sometimes the consultations are daily, "sometimes by the
minute."

As focused as Dell is on its core business, a number of challenges remain.
It is still relatively small in Asia, where the world's greatest demand for
computers has shifted. But it is growing fast in China and India.

Dell needs to catch up with Hewlett in supplying corporate data centers.
Though Dell has a bigger share of the American market than its archrival,
Hewlett dominates worldwide. Dell has just announced a new line of servers,
known as the Power Edge series, that are easier to install and manage.

It has even made the servers more stylish by masking exterior buttons and
switches and color-coding interior components to give data center managers a
sense of order.

Dell is emphasizing style in its desktops, notebooks and printers as well,
in an effort to keep those products from being mere commodities. On the door
providing access to the interior of the XPS desktops, for instance, Dell
installs a gasket and deadens the ping sound of the spring so it closes with
the thud of a car door.

A new all-in-one printer uses a liquid-crystal display instead of many
buttons to control functions. Dell designers are convinced that other makers
go button-crazy so that the shopper in a store will quickly see how
full-featured the product is. Dell, selling online or by phone, does not
need that visual sales pitch.

The company has not made a splash selling flat-panel televisions the way it
did when it entered the market for servers and printers. That is because
prices across the board have fallen sharply, making it difficult for Dell to
offer consumers a significant price difference.

But Mr. Rollins said that did not mean the Dell model of selling direct
would not work there, too. It is opening stores in malls to display its
products, though they must still be purchased directly by phone or over the
Internet. The company sees major opportunities selling TV's to corporate
customers. Target is buying digital TV's for in-store displays, Dell
executives said.

"The opportunity to continue to grow in the highest-growth categories is
ahead of us," Mr. Rollins said.

CH
 
* Chad Harris:
Which "huge trend to 64bit processors" should there be?

The one that gets the out of AMD, Intel and OEM warehouses and storage rooms
onto actual computers on Planet Earth:

I don't know in which country you live but at least in Germany only some
low end processors like Sempron and Celeron are still 32bit. Everything
else is x64, and this for some time now. I'm currently in the US, and
here it's no different...
"The majority of all current desktop processors is already 64bit (and this
for some time
now)."

I'm not sure if you know what year it is. It's 2006. What you claim is
already present on desktops won't occur*** in significant numbers*** if then
until 20078-2009.

At least in the western world the majority of _current_ desktop
processors is x64. That's a fact. It doesn't mean that the majority of
users run x64 systems (that's why I wrote _current_, remember?).
"And despite the fact that the majority of systems sold is 64bit
already..."

No, No, and No. That's just not documented truth.

Documented by whom? That's the fact if you go out and look at what's
offered on the PC market...
The truth is represented
in the article below:

"Who wants or needs 64 bits? No Overnight Revolution" Published: March 6,
2006, 4:00 AM PST
http://news.com.com/Who+wants+or+needs+64+bits/2100-1006_3-6045931.html

"Nearly two and a half years have passed since 64-bit processors started
going into PCs.

So your documented source also says that 64bit processors are out there
for ~2.5 years.
But the software to take full advantage of these chips
remains scarce, and customers aren't buying much of what's out there.
The dearth can be seen in a lot of ways. Microsoft released a 64-bit version
of Windows for desktops last May but has sold few copies, according to
analysts. A site created by Advanced Micro Devices, the biggest proponent of
64-bit desktops, lists only six games tweaked for 64-bit computing and one
partial upgrade.

Until here the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
Dell sells 64-bit Windows as an option on two workstations and on a
corporate desktop, but not on notebooks or any consumer PCs. Hewlett-Packard
sells it as an option on workstations only. Lenovo offers it if a customer
requests it. Gateway doesn't offer 64-bit software on its PCs with 64-bit
chips at all.

Until here the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
Instead, most PC makers and software developers will wait until Vista, the
next version of Windows

Until here the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
"There is just not enough driver support for 64-bit Windows," said Rahul
Sood, president of Voodoo Computers. "We don't offer it. We are waiting for
Vista."

Until here the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.

Oh-oh:

"The slow emergence of a 64-bit ecosystem also means that those consumers
who bought 64-bit systems in the past few years to "future proof" themselves
against a software conversion really didn't. By the time Vista comes out,
those early 64-bit computers will be 3 years old, closing in on the typical
four-year replacement cycle."

"customers who bought 64bit systems in the past few years". BTW: until
here the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
"Workstations from HP, Dell and others often accommodate at least 8GB of
memory. Several workstation applications have been ported over, said
Margaret Lewis, director of commercial solutions at AMD.

Until here the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
Workstations,
however, constitute a small market, and sales of workstations with 64-bit
chips from AMD or Intel and of 64-bit software comprise only a fraction of
that market.

Right, so what? Workstations always have been just a small part of the
PC market. This doesn't mean that only workstations are 64bit.
(Servers are a different story: Applications were ported to
64-bit platforms years ago, though one executive at Sun Microsystems said in
July 2005 that only about 30 percent of customers had started running 64-bit
software on its Opteron servers.)"

Again the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
Uh Huh: "I don't have usage statistics, but I expect they're pretty
minimal," Tim Sweeney, founder of Epic, wrote in an e-mail. "Those OSes
aren't ready for prime time because of a lack of drivers, application
install problems and other random things. Real-world adoption of 64-bit OSes
will probably only occur when Windows Vista ships."

Again the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
A Microsoft representative wrote in an e-mail that the company has trained
more than 300 developers on porting their applications to 64-bit Windows and
that sales of the operating system have exceeded the company's expectations.
The initial expectations, however, weren't revealed."

Again the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
What the hell were the initial expectations MSFT? Why weren't they?

"The reality is that it is tough to get your hands on that product. The big
blocker is that there is no (consumer) app that demands that kind of power,"
said Mike Cherry, an analyst at Directions on Microsoft. "There are also
concerns about the availability of drivers."

Again the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
Cherry, incidentally, said he bought a 64-bit laptop the other day but
couldn't get one with 64-bit Windows.

Yep the 64 bit Broken Windows Cherry will get will be Vista when the broken,
buggy OS RTMs whenever that is."

When Vista hits, consumers will begin to see some 64-bit benefits, even if
their applications remain 32-bit, according to AMD's Lewis, but 64-bit
applications may not "start hitting in numbers for consumers until 2007 and
2008."

Again the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
You have to make sure you have the market to sell the code," she said.

Still, the changeover seems to be occurring slower than they anticipated. In
2002, AMD executives predicted that people would begin to start taking
advantage of the 64-bit capabilities soon after the chips hit and that the
market would begin to see some desktops with 4GB of memory in 2004.

Again the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
In August 2003, before more Microsoft delays, AMD said 64-bit technology,
including software, would be somewhat widespread in 12 to 15 months, even in
notebooks.

Of course 64bit notebook processors are quite rare (64bit makes no sense
in a notebook today and even tomorrow).

Again the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.
Ironically, the 2007 and 2008 predictions for the emergence of 64-bit
applications fit closer to what Intel said, before it jumped into 64-bit
desktop chips. Company executives and scientists through 2002 and 2003 said
mainstream users wouldn't likely need 64-bit desktops until about 2008 or
2009."

Again the text just talks about 64bit applications and 64bit Windows.

Honestly, did you ever _read_ the article? Maybe you noticed that it
says _nothing_ about how many 64bit processors are sold. It's an article
about _software_...
" I can't see where all the fuzz is about."

The fuzz is created because MSFT knows that they can create a climate of
fear mongering to help spur the sale of OEM desktops and new machines for
their OEM customers of millions of OEM preinstalled desktops by dancing
around the concept of "Vista ready PC's" What you know is correct in
principle, although with an increase in RAM actually P4 PCs that were sold
with enough processor speed even well before four years can run Vista and
run it damn fast.

They can, as a Dell Dimension 8100 with P4 1.5GHz, 1GB RDRAM and FX5200
gfx prooves me...
Then you simply choosed the wrong system vendor. Nothing that MS is
responsible for...> All my HP systems came with a Recovery disk and a
generic Windowsxp CD that can do repair just fine. I'm sure the Vista media
from HP will have similar capabilities..."

Mr. Gawert I chose Dell and I told the rep that if she wanted the sale she
would put in writing that I would get an XP Retail CD and I really didn't
give a damn who paid for it. That's the only circumstance under which I
will spend my hard earned money for any machine from the 300 Name OEM
partners that MSFT OEM VP Scott di Valerio presides over.

That's of course your choice. But if your vendor doesn't fit your
requirements you should think about changing the vendor...
I've helped with over 1000 no boot XP situations and many have been HP
so-called non-destructive recovery CDs.

Why am I sure that you (don't worry, this happens to almost everyone who
doesn't know HPs product lines very well) are primarly talking about HP
Pavilion and HP Compaq Presario systems? FYI: these systems are usually
not made by HP and not serviced by HP but by some subcontractor (in
Europe its Medion). The only thing which is from HP is the sticker.
These systems have often crippled OEM CDs like you said and can be a
hazzle to maintain.

But this is not the case with "real" HP hardware (business PCs and
workstations). I have some of those at home, and we have shitloads of
them at work. They all came with fully useable Windows CDs.

Benjamin
 
* Chad Harris:
LO Benjamin-- These are for your viewing pleasure--but you have to "read
them." Enjoy.

You should start reading a few papers. Try www.nytimes.com/tech and
www.washingtonpost.com/tech
and www.nytimes.com/business

I can read. Can you also _understand_ them?
You missed a number of articles on Dell that butress exactly what Bobb
said.

Benjamin the date on the first article I link for you is July 11, 2006--is
that current enough for you--it's today's NY Times--What do it read like to
you Benjamin?

http://www.nytimes.com/cnet/CNET_2100-1005_3-6092728.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

July 11, 2006
Dell set to change consumer pricing
Tom Krazit, for News.com
Apparently, the price is wrong at Dell.

[snipped article about Dells new pricing initiative]

This article says that Dell starts a new pricing initiative because they
lost some sales ground to others. And what does Dells pricing or sales
figure have to do with 64bit systems?

[snipped another article about Dells pricing, market share and internal
problems]

Another article about Dell loosing sales and internal problems. Not that
these articles have _any_ relevance for your statements, but who cares,
right?

Do you also have some real arguments or are you continuing to cite some
articles with no relation to the topic?

Benjamin
 
The largest of the system builders (name withheld because of my NDA) will
stop building ANY machines with 32-bit procs at the end of this year.
 
Maybe that largest of what MSFT calls the 300 Named OEM system builders
will, Colin, but it will be a good while before the market penetrance of
them is as Benjamin sweepingly described it.

And it won't change a thing as to the eggregious attitude on the parts of
greedy MSFT and them not to provide a viable Vista DVD that will allow them
to reach Win RE or an XP CD that they can boot from and do a repair install.

CG
 
Ben this was made in response not to your discussion of 64 bit but your post
to Bobb:

You typed on
Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:21 PM


I'm in the market for a replacement laptop and I'm thinking that as
release date gets closer ( especially around winter holiday time) that XP
PC's will be VERY low in price to clear the shelves for Vista PC's .

****Nope. Why should they? Even current PCs run Vista just fine...****
Come the Vista release, those pc's are boat anchors for retailers:

****Nope. Why should they?****
especially Dell with their Intel only platform.

I offered why they should and they are in my links:


http://www.nytimes.com/cnet/CNET_2100-1005_3-6092728.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/15/t...24000&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

See below.

I particularly like the information that Dell allegedly spent $100 million
on customer service.

MSFT should do the same considering their PSS is not MSFT but the bottom of
the barrel--Convergys of Ohio in India--the cheepest possible support
contracts with minimum waged butts in seats so MSFT doesn't have to deal
with customers they don't give a damn about pretending to be MSFT and
speaking English about as well as MSFT OS's comport their non-intuitive
menus.

CH

From: "Chad Harris" <Bushisamoron.net>
Subject: Re: Price of PCs as Vista nears? Dell slashes prices even for
Benjamin Gawert
Date: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:13 PM

LO Benjamin-- These are for your viewing pleasure--but you have to "read
them." Enjoy.

You should start reading a few papers. Try www.nytimes.com/tech and
www.washingtonpost.com/tech
and www.nytimes.com/business

You missed a number of articles on Dell that butress exactly what Bobb
said.

Benjamin the date on the first article I link for you is July 11, 2006--is
that current enough for you--it's today's NY Times--What do it read like to
you Benjamin?

http://www.nytimes.com/cnet/CNET_2100-1005_3-6092728.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

July 11, 2006
Dell set to change consumer pricing
Tom Krazit, for News.com
Apparently, the price is wrong at Dell.

The company plans to announce "a major pricing initative" for consumers and
small business customers on Thursday, it said in a press release distributed
Monday. Further details were not immediately available, but Ro Parra, senior
vice president and general manager of Dell's new Home and Small Business
Group, will lead a conference call.

Dell has been looking to jump-start its consumer business this year.
Although enterprise customers account for 85 percent of its business, the
company has sought ways to expand its presence among home users of
technology. As the PC market share leader, Dell has tried to get its PC
customers to purchase other electronic gear, like televisions and printers,
with mixed degrees of success.

As a whole, however, the company has blamed the consumer business for much
of the earnings shortfalls that have stifled Dell's runaway growth.


CEO Kevin Rollins blamed some of the shortfall on increased sales to the
unprofitable low end of the PC market as the company focused on maintaining
market share. But a resurgent Hewlett-Packard has caused problems for Dell.
A mounting number of service complaints also has forced the company to
belatedly improve its technical support operation.


Thursday's pricing initative will probably look to recapture some of that
lost momentum. Dell cut prices on a number of desktops and notebooks earlier
this year as stalwart partner Intel cut its own prices on certain chips.
Intel is also planning price cuts during the upcoming quarter as it gets set
to launch its Conroe desktop processor.

June 15, 2006 Falling Short of A+
By DAMON DARLIN

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/15/t...24000&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

ROUND ROCK, Tex., June 9 - Kevin B. Rollins, the chief executive of Dell,
does not want to dwell on what has gone wrong for the last year at his
company, the world's largest computer maker. He calls it "wallowing."

When pressed for an explanation of why revenue growth has slowed drastically
and why profits have fallen, his explanation is short. "We got a little too
far ahead on profit, and that allowed competitors to sneak in," he said in
an interview at the company's headquarters here, referring to Dell's
profit-margin goals. "Our competitors got better, and that allowed them to
get strong."

How could this happen on the watch of a former Bain & Company consultant who
prides himself on measuring everything and on meticulous execution? "We just
don't know," said Mr. Rollins, who has held the top job since July 2004.

Though the company has faltered, for the first time growing more slowly than
the rest of the PC industry, it is not a crisis, said Mr. Rollins. "It's not
anywhere near that," he said. Nonetheless, Mr. Rollins is not being blasé
about the very real problems facing Dell, which recorded revenue last year
of $55.9 billion. He is pushing the company to act quickly and aggressively
to fix its problems lest they get bigger. There is truth in the law of big
numbers, he said, which states that it is harder for a multibillion-dollar
company to grow at the rate a multimillion-dollar company grows.

Dell will be growing more slowly, he said, but it will still grow faster
than the rest of the industry, improve profitability and take market share
from competitors.

Joseph A. Marengi, Dell's senior vice president for the Americas, said:
"There is a feeling of 'let's get this back to where it should be.' It's
basic business, but at the end of the day there is a sense of urgency."

One problem was of Dell's own making: the deterioration of its customer
service. It has thrown a lot of money at that problem very quickly, more
than $100 million in the last few months, to answer consumers' questions
quickly.

Its other major problem is more vexing. Dell does not have a major cost
advantage in low-priced notebook computers. "That's where our advantage has
been a little lower, and that's where the growth has been," said James M.
Schneider, Dell's chief financial officer. The company has to find a way to
squeeze more costs out of a procurement and manufacturing system that is
already world-renowned as the leanest in the industry.

Mr. Rollins insists that the company was not complacent. "We pushed some
elements faster than we should have," he said, comparing the situation to
that of an A-plus student who merely gets an A. It is still a great
performance, but everyone is nonetheless disappointed. Mr. Schneider agreed,
saying, "Once someone misses who never misses, there is concern."

The sense of urgency that Mr. Rollins is trying to instill comes at a time
when Dell's share price has been in steady decline, hovering lately around
$25, a loss of about 40 percent since last July. It is a long way from the
heights of almost $60 achieved in 2000, before the stock fell to barely $16
after the technology boom collapsed.

Wall Street is still wary. A. M. Sacconaghi, an analyst with Sanford C.
Bernstein & Company, said that Mr. Rollins's "articulation of a series of
steps and a plan is a plus." He also said, "The company has misestimated its
fortunes before, so there is some healthy skepticism." Mr. Sacconaghi said
he thought that the company would have been better off solving its problems
with customer service and improving product design before it started cutting
prices to increase sales.

To reverse its recent setbacks, Dell is now willing to question just about
anything - even breaking longtime exclusive allegiances with a major
supplier like Intel.

Dell announced last month that it would begin using chips from Intel's
rival, Advanced Micro Devices, in one of its high-end servers. Asked if the
company would switch to A.M.D. processors for some of its PC's, Mr. Rollins
would answer only with a wink. Glen Yeung, an analyst with Citigroup Global
Markets, has said Dell would do so by September.

Dell's exclusive use of Intel processors has lately appeared short-sighted.
The fastest-growing segment of the notebook market, which is the
fastest-growing segment of the PC market, has been for machines with
Advanced Micro chips, Mr. Marengi said. Other companies, most notably
Hewlett-Packard, were able to offer lower-priced notebooks because they used
Advanced Micro.

Meanwhile, the decline in computer prices took a toll on customer service,
long a hallmark of the Dell model. The company found it harder to justify
the kind of service it had provided for $1,000 PC's when those systems were
selling for $350. So it decided to stop fixing certain kinds of problems,
mostly related to software, spam and viruses. It decided to answer more of
its customers' questions from call centers overseas, and long waits became
common.

The economies made sense on paper because individual consumers account for
only 15 percent of Dell's business. But as complaints mounted, Mr. Rollins
ordered a reversal. "We will do whatever is necessary to get it fixed," he
said. He moved the company's manufacturing wizard, Richard Hunter, to
customer service and asked him to apply the methods of employee empowerment
to call centers, calling out for help from specialists the moment there is
an unmanageable problem. Dell quickly provided staff members for new call
centers in North America.

Mr. Rollins sees a new service, DellConnect, as a technology that could
solve customer woes and save the company money at the same time. A call
center employee asks a customer with a troubled PC whether a Dell technician
can take over the machine remotely via a high-speed Internet connection. The
technician then diagnoses and fixes as much of the problem as possible.

Mr. Rollins said that DellConnect, which was in testing until early this
month, had been used 450,000 times and that 80 percent of problems were
resolved. Here is the part Mr. Rollins really liked: 95 percent of customers
were left satisfied.

It is hard to argue that Dell ever got complacent about costs. "We've been
at this a long time," said Glenn E. Neland, Dell's senior vice president and
chief procurement officer. Two years ago, Dell eked out $1.8 billion in cost
savings. Last year, it squeezed out 22 percent more, or $2.2 billion. This
year, Mr. Rollins wants Mr. Neland to find an additional $3 billion, or 36
percent more than last year. Mr. Rollins does not want it done the easy way,
with layoffs. "It gets harder and harder to find it," Mr. Neland said.

Instead, the market's shift to notebooks, which Dell makes in China just as
its competitors do, erased much of its cost advantage. "We'd have our thumb
on all of the supply and all of the cost," Mr. Neland said.

Five years ago, the cost of assembling the PC's motherboard, which contains
the processor and other main electronics, was $20. With a supply base in
China, a better knowledge of component costs and of how overseas assemblers
operate, and by increasing competition among them, Dell got the cost down to
$5. The company might be able to squeeze more out of that area, but the
gains will be small. It has to look elsewhere.

The savings are not necessarily in the hardware. For instance, Dell shipped
computers to customers in three boxes, one each for the computer, the
monitor and the peripherals. That was great for the individual customers,
but made little sense for its business customers, who were getting up to 500
computers at a time. So Dell began packing 16 chassis or eight flat-panel
monitors in a single box. Customers liked it better, too, because they had
fewer empty boxes to dispose of.

Mr. Rollins is presiding over meetings on how to find several more major
sources of savings. "Kevin leads a discussion," Mr. Neland said. "He is not
a table-pounder. But once we have a level set, he can be very intense." Mr.
Neland said sometimes the consultations are daily, "sometimes by the
minute."

As focused as Dell is on its core business, a number of challenges remain.
It is still relatively small in Asia, where the world's greatest demand for
computers has shifted. But it is growing fast in China and India.

Dell needs to catch up with Hewlett in supplying corporate data centers.
Though Dell has a bigger share of the American market than its archrival,
Hewlett dominates worldwide. Dell has just announced a new line of servers,
known as the Power Edge series, that are easier to install and manage.

It has even made the servers more stylish by masking exterior buttons and
switches and color-coding interior components to give data center managers a
sense of order.

Dell is emphasizing style in its desktops, notebooks and printers as well,
in an effort to keep those products from being mere commodities. On the door
providing access to the interior of the XPS desktops, for instance, Dell
installs a gasket and deadens the ping sound of the spring so it closes with
the thud of a car door.

A new all-in-one printer uses a liquid-crystal display instead of many
buttons to control functions. Dell designers are convinced that other makers
go button-crazy so that the shopper in a store will quickly see how
full-featured the product is. Dell, selling online or by phone, does not
need that visual sales pitch.

The company has not made a splash selling flat-panel televisions the way it
did when it entered the market for servers and printers. That is because
prices across the board have fallen sharply, making it difficult for Dell to
offer consumers a significant price difference.

But Mr. Rollins said that did not mean the Dell model of selling direct
would not work there, too. It is opening stores in malls to display its
products, though they must still be purchased directly by phone or over the
Internet. The company sees major opportunities selling TV's to corporate
customers. Target is buying digital TV's for in-store displays, Dell
executives said.

"The opportunity to continue to grow in the highest-growth categories is
ahead of us," Mr. Rollins said.

CH

Benjamin Gawert said:
* - Bobb -:

Nope. Why should they? Even current PCs run Vista just fine...


Nope. Why should they?


What has the choice (intel or AMD) to do with Vista?


Almost all PCs of the last 5 years are Vista capable. Only for Aero Glass
you need a more modern gfx card, but a GeforceFX 5200 costs just a few
bucks and does fine in Vista. So I don't know what you're dreaming of...


Nope. Clever people buy a computer when they need it and not when
something new comes out. Besides that, certain manufacturers usually offer
cheap upgrades if a newer Windows version comes out to those that bought a
system with the old version two or three month ago (I got my Windowsxp x64
this way from HP).


Why should the installation of a new Operating system void warranty?


Yeah, right, simply because there are already masses of 64bit programs
around ;-) Hint: there is a reason why there is a 32bit Vista...


So basically Pentium3 PCs are becoming obsolete. What a surprise ;-)


Strange, here in Germany 1GB RAM is pretty standard on most notebooks, and
2GB can be found easily, too.


No need to wait. Every notebook of the last >4 years runs Vista great, and
all newer notebooks already have DirectX9 capable gfx with decent video
memory (128MB) which run Vista with all the bells and whistles.


My thoughts are that you wait for something that simply won't happen. I
don't know what you think a Vista-capable PC/notebook requires that todays
systems don't have but I can promise you that you won't see falling prices
just because of Vista.

Benjamin


Benjamin Gawert said:
* Chad Harris:
LO Benjamin-- These are for your viewing pleasure--but you have to "read
them." Enjoy.

You should start reading a few papers. Try www.nytimes.com/tech and
www.washingtonpost.com/tech
and www.nytimes.com/business

I can read. Can you also _understand_ them?
You missed a number of articles on Dell that butress exactly what Bobb
said.

Benjamin the date on the first article I link for you is July 11,
2006--is that current enough for you--it's today's NY Times--What do it
read like to you Benjamin?

http://www.nytimes.com/cnet/CNET_2100-1005_3-6092728.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

July 11, 2006
Dell set to change consumer pricing
Tom Krazit, for News.com
Apparently, the price is wrong at Dell.

[snipped article about Dells new pricing initiative]

This article says that Dell starts a new pricing initiative because they
lost some sales ground to others. And what does Dells pricing or sales
figure have to do with 64bit systems?

[snipped another article about Dells pricing, market share and internal
problems]

Another article about Dell loosing sales and internal problems. Not that
these articles have _any_ relevance for your statements, but who cares,
right?

Do you also have some real arguments or are you continuing to cite some
articles with no relation to the topic?

Benjamin
 
* Chad Harris wrote:

[something]

Sorry man, but unless you learn how to quote and set your Outlook
Express to use quotation signs (usually ">") I won't read the mangled
mix of old and new ansers you call a posting. This mess is really
unreadable...

Benjamin
 
Ben I could care less what you read. I just couldn't let your false
statements sit here if others read them. I don't remember working for you;
I don't know of any "rule" or law that says I have to snip and quote the way
you like it and if I were you I wouldn't use the words "sorry man."

I lable your delusions and my corrections the way I like them.

BTW, I look forward to your many contributions fixing things for people
here. So far, can't find them.

CH
 
* Chad Harris:
Ben I could care less what you read. I just couldn't let your false
statements sit here if others read them. I don't remember working for you;
I don't know of any "rule" or law that says I have to snip and quote the way
you like it and if I were you I wouldn't use the words "sorry man."

I lable your delusions and my corrections the way I like them.

Sure, then go ahead and post like a 3 year old kid.

EOD

Benjamin
 
Got it. Thanks
My fault for leaving out details. ( I always assume x64 vista since I
have 64 bit cpu)

Bobb
 
3 years old is Nirvana. I think you have perfectly assessed my IQ level
and content level in every post I do. I boast an IQ about 3% of thge
current temperature as well. You really excel at clinical insight. Much
talent abounds.

My posts like a 3 year old kid have gotten a number of people's Vista up and
running and my experience on these newsgroups for years is that as long as
you clearly demarcate what is yours and what is something else it works. I
try to make them readable. I find many of the interspersed snips (like you
do it) just hard as hell to read--and when they are lengthy as yours was
Benjamin, it is a pain in the ass to scroll down so I find myself simply
opening duplicate windows to be able to read the snips side by side. I
didn't say anything about it but if you look at many posts, including those
of MVPs who have supported many MSFT groups for years, they don't conform to
the method you want and for good reason. They feel like it's inconvenient
to do and damn hard to read.

Go look at the MSFT XP groups, the 64 bit groups, the MCE groups or any
other. Also very few Beta testers post the way you want as well in many of
the 230 plus Betas MSFT has going.

CH
 
Chad Harris said:
Ben this was made in response not to your discussion of 64 bit but your
post to Bobb:

You typed on
Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:21 PM


I'm in the market for a replacement laptop and I'm thinking that as

****Nope. Why should they? Even current PCs run Vista just fine...****


****Nope. Why should they?****


Yep, same rumors every year about price drops for one reason or another.

Nothing happed to ME computers before XP.
 
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