Preview Updates and MS Policy

  • Thread starter Thread starter Saucy
  • Start date Start date
Aren't updates and extras two different things???

Jeff


Jupiter Jones said:
But you are assuming it is a Beta.
It may be, but right now everything indicates otherwise.

"If Microsoft wants..."
If everyone thinks that way, little to nothing customers thought a good
idea would ever get to developers who work on a product.

Do you feel the same about other products?
Microsoft is far from the only one who provides channels for customer
feedback and relies heavily on them for future product changes.
Or do you only withhold improvement suggestion on software?

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


Saucy said:
Well this is just my opinion stated on a peer-to-peer general newsgroup.
If Microsoft wants me to work on their products they can pay me!

:)

But, I do think it is not unreasonable to suggest they shouldn't do this.
It might be a good idea that they do, but then again, for the reason I
stated [second-guessing],it might not be such a good idea to throw in the
Betas w/o clearily marking them so. I guess Microsoft thinks "Preview" is
sufficient and it may well be .. but I think they should just leave the
betas off and away from the page that does the Updates.

Thnx for the replies JJ.
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Saucy said:
To be honest, JJ, this is the first time I've seen beta (or alpha or
preview or rc or whatever you want to call it - I call it beta) software
released among the updates.
Click to expand...

And I don't remember Windows Update having been used for delivering new
features for desktop OS's except for SP2 - which was, other than DRM
updates, mostly a security patch. In fact, that's what service packs used
to be about - security patches, not new features.

I think it is all part of their new iterative development policy.

Dale
 
Huh? That's the standard answer Microsoft employees give when they can't
argue logically.

Besides, the Windows Vista product team has made this newsgroup an
appropriate means of making suggestions to Microsoft by including the
"Suggestion for Microsoft" feature in the newsgroup.

Dale

Jupiter Jones said:
Have you expressed that opinion where there is better assurance that the
correct people at Microsoft get the message?
This is not the place if that is your intent.
Since these are peer to peer newsgroups, there is no requirement or
expectation that anyone at Microsoft, much less the Product Group
applicable, will ever see your message.

I do not see it in Vista, but in my Windows XP Microsoft Update settings
there is a check box "Show Beta products and related updates"
It has been there for a long time.
Click to expand...
 
I have Live OneCare on my Vista PC. Live OneCare said there were two
updates and did I want to install them. It didn't differentiate between
recommended and optional. I had to open Windows Update to see what they
were. Had I just followed OneCare's (a Microsoft product) suggestion, I
would have gotten both. Had I not take the extra step to configure OneCare
to ask before installing updates, it would have downloaded and installed
both updates.

Just as Jupiter Jones said, most people never see anything from Windows
Update, it just does its work, so it goes for most users of Microsoft Live
OneCare. They will just let it download. And they should be able to do
so - it is generally the best idea - but this misuse of Windows Update shows
exactly why users shouldn't let anything automatically update their PC. And
not allowing that update puts their PC at risk.

It was a bad idea. I, like Saucy, hope they never do it again. In fact, I
think they should publicly acknowledge that it was a mistake and that it
will never happen again. That could be the only way to restore trust in
Windows Update.

Dale

Richard Urban said:
DreamScene was not automatic on my computer. I had to manually choose it.
It was the same with Windows XP. They had "optional" updates that were not
delivered automatically. You had to make the effort to get them.

For those using Ultimate (the only users who can get these special
updates) I would like to think that they are a "cut above" the average
user. But, then again, maybe not.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!



Saucy said:
Yup. IMO, Microsoft should forthwith cease and desist. Updates shouldn't
degrade into a "second-guessing" game, full of fear, uncertainty, and
doubt. It would make it impossible. I don't want to have to go back to
manually downloaded updates and qchain.

:)

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Dale said:
I agree completely. By putting non-production software on Windows
Update, Windows Update has become nothing more than a marketing tool that
happens to delivery security patches as well.

Dale

I don't think it belongs there whatever the wording. If they keep it up
[releasing post/pre/ rc preview betas to the updates] they will have
people double guessing the updates. People are having issues with this
update (resource hog sometimes) so it shouldn't have gone in as an
'update' or 'extra'. Just my opinion.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



A preview and Beta are not necessarily the same.
I would not assume preview meant Beta unless Microsoft said so and
there is no indication DreamScene is Beta.
However the lack of the word "Beta" is significant since AFAIK, the
word Beta is always associated with Microsoft Beta products.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


I noticed that DreamScene is a 'preview' - AFAIK that indicates it is
some sort of pre-production beta-ware. What I don't understand is that
it is offered as part of updates and extras as if it were RTM.
Shouldn't they [Microsoft] just offer a web link for their
pre-production stuff and wait until it is RTM'd, so to speak, before
they release software as an update?

And is there any MS policy regarding the lexicon or words they will
use to indicate whether an update is beta or RTM?
Click to expand...
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Even if there was a Betas section, there shouldn't be one. Too many users
still include Microsoft in their trusted downloads sites - and they
shouldn't.


Dale

Saucy said:
Extras and Updates are on the same page. There is no "Betas" section where
this preview beta probably should have gone .. of course, this is just my
opinion, but I think I am correct.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Shane Nokes said:
Are you guys really that paranoid and unable to read?

The UI is showing you both Extras & Updates.

There's a reason why it shows everything in different categories.

Windows Update has its own category.
Language Packs have their own category.
Ultimate Extras have their own category.
Microsoft Update has its own category.

Each item is separate from the other.

If you can't tell this then maybe you should just turn off Extras,
Microsoft Update, and just stick with the Windows Updates only.

That would remove all confusion and doubt you could possibly have.

Saucy said:
Yup. IMO, Microsoft should forthwith cease and desist. Updates shouldn't
degrade into a "second-guessing" game, full of fear, uncertainty, and
doubt. It would make it impossible. I don't want to have to go back to
manually downloaded updates and qchain.

:)

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



I agree completely. By putting non-production software on Windows
Update, Windows Update has become nothing more than a marketing tool
that happens to delivery security patches as well.

Dale

I don't think it belongs there whatever the wording. If they keep it up
[releasing post/pre/ rc preview betas to the updates] they will have
people double guessing the updates. People are having issues with this
update (resource hog sometimes) so it shouldn't have gone in as an
'update' or 'extra'. Just my opinion.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



A preview and Beta are not necessarily the same.
I would not assume preview meant Beta unless Microsoft said so and
there is no indication DreamScene is Beta.
However the lack of the word "Beta" is significant since AFAIK, the
word Beta is always associated with Microsoft Beta products.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


I noticed that DreamScene is a 'preview' - AFAIK that indicates it is
some sort of pre-production beta-ware. What I don't understand is
that it is offered as part of updates and extras as if it were RTM.
Shouldn't they [Microsoft] just offer a web link for their
pre-production stuff and wait until it is RTM'd, so to speak, before
they release software as an update?

And is there any MS policy regarding the lexicon or words they will
use to indicate whether an update is beta or RTM?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
"That's the standard answer..."
Whatever that means, you are not clear at all.
Unless they suggest proper channels and again you insist on other means even
though they may be less adequate.

So in other words you are counting on this newsgroup to get your message
across instead of using the proper channels designed for such a purpose.
Now we understand your motive.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


Dale said:
Huh? That's the standard answer Microsoft employees give when they can't
argue logically.

Besides, the Windows Vista product team has made this newsgroup an
appropriate means of making suggestions to Microsoft by including the
"Suggestion for Microsoft" feature in the newsgroup.

Dale
Click to expand...
 
"I, like Saucy, hope they never do it again."
But apparently you will only voice that opinion here where is is improbable
the correct people at Microsoft will see it.
Why not also use the correct channels?
 
I noticed that DreamScene is a 'preview' - AFAIK that indicates it is some
sort of pre-production beta-ware. What I don't understand is that it is
offered as part of updates and extras as if it were RTM.
Click to expand...

Not exactly. It wasn't there when I first ran Windows Update in Vista
a few weeks ago.... :-)
Shouldn't they
[Microsoft] just offer a web link for their pre-production stuff and wait
until it is RTM'd, so to speak, before they release software as an update?
Click to expand...

It's an optional update. It's not forced upon you.

And I downloaded 2 or 3 Internet Explorer 7 betas from Microsoft
before the final release.
And is there any MS policy regarding the lexicon or words they will use to
indicate whether an update is beta or RTM?
Click to expand...

Well in the case of DreamScene I guess they won't call it a "preview"
anymore when the final version is released.....
 
I'm not counting on the newsgroup to do anything. I certainly have never
been able to get a response to the only technical question I've posted - and
the one that brought me here in the first place. As for a peer-to-peer
support forum, this newsgroup is almost useless. Hey, maybe you could make
me go away. Find an answer to my first post in this newsgroup.

It was a general discussion, totally outside of the intended function of the
newsgroup. You were absolutely right in your remarks. I just found it odd
since you regularly participate in off-topic discussions and troll threads
just like most of the other regulars here.

Dale

Jupiter Jones said:
"That's the standard answer..."
Whatever that means, you are not clear at all.
Unless they suggest proper channels and again you insist on other means
even though they may be less adequate.

So in other words you are counting on this newsgroup to get your message
across instead of using the proper channels designed for such a purpose.
Now we understand your motive.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org
Click to expand...
 
Such as?


Jupiter Jones said:
"I, like Saucy, hope they never do it again."
But apparently you will only voice that opinion here where is is
improbable the correct people at Microsoft will see it.
Why not also use the correct channels?
Click to expand...
 
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