Preview Updates and MS Policy

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Saucy

I noticed that DreamScene is a 'preview' - AFAIK that indicates it is some
sort of pre-production beta-ware. What I don't understand is that it is
offered as part of updates and extras as if it were RTM. Shouldn't they
[Microsoft] just offer a web link for their pre-production stuff and wait
until it is RTM'd, so to speak, before they release software as an update?

And is there any MS policy regarding the lexicon or words they will use to
indicate whether an update is beta or RTM?
 
Don't know about DreamScene but MS usually clearly defines betas or they
clearly state in a disclaimer that support is not provided for an app as
with TweakUI and RegClean.
 
I think that the reason they did it this way was because so many Ultimate
users were complaining. They thought it would be available on Jan. 30th,
along with Vista. Trying to keep the masses happy I suppose.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Hm hm .. well, I disagree with MS's policy here, Mr. Urban. It should be
kept to RTM quality stuff, IMO. Then there's no second guessing. Besides,
Texas Hold'em should hold 'em for a little while yet, shouldn't it? :)

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com
 
Actually Saucy, I don't really believe that any software ever goes out of
beta. It is all being modified and corrected right up to the time that is
released with another version. The modifications and corrections are then
modified and corrected. Some software is just inherently better that others.

BTW, DreamScene is pretty stable on my computer. Uses a lot of resources
though, as my computer is older and not dual core anything.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
It worked well here, didn't hog resources of CPU (approx 10-15% P4 HT). But
I noticed that there were complaints and wondered what beta software was
doing on the update list.

Thanks.
--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com
 
A preview and Beta are not necessarily the same.
I would not assume preview meant Beta unless Microsoft said so and there is
no indication DreamScene is Beta.
However the lack of the word "Beta" is significant since AFAIK, the word
Beta is always associated with Microsoft Beta products.
 
I don't think it belongs there whatever the wording. If they keep it up
[releasing post/pre/ rc preview betas to the updates] they will have people
double guessing the updates. People are having issues with this update
(resource hog sometimes) so it shouldn't have gone in as an 'update' or
'extra'. Just my opinion.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Jupiter Jones said:
A preview and Beta are not necessarily the same.
I would not assume preview meant Beta unless Microsoft said so and there
is no indication DreamScene is Beta.
However the lack of the word "Beta" is significant since AFAIK, the word
Beta is always associated with Microsoft Beta products.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org
Click to expand...
 
I agree completely. By putting non-production software on Windows Update,
Windows Update has become nothing more than a marketing tool that happens to
delivery security patches as well.

Dale

Saucy said:
I don't think it belongs there whatever the wording. If they keep it up
[releasing post/pre/ rc preview betas to the updates] they will have people
double guessing the updates. People are having issues with this update
(resource hog sometimes) so it shouldn't have gone in as an 'update' or
'extra'. Just my opinion.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com
Click to expand...
 
Dale.
Windows Update has long been far more than for just security updates.
For many users, security and important performance patches is all they see
since they use Automatic Update.

The Extras are just that and not installed automatically along with optional
and recommended updates.
Do not read more into the intent of Windows Update than is there.

The typical user will mostly never see the optional or recommended updates.
For most the closest they get to Windows/Microsoft Update is when Windows
needs to reboot after automatically installing the updates.
But then users of Ultimate are far from typical.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


Dale said:
I agree completely. By putting non-production software on Windows Update,
Windows Update has become nothing more than a marketing tool that happens
to delivery security patches as well.

Dale

Saucy said:
I don't think it belongs there whatever the wording. If they keep it up
[releasing post/pre/ rc preview betas to the updates] they will have
people double guessing the updates. People are having issues with this
update (resource hog sometimes) so it shouldn't have gone in as an
'update' or 'extra'. Just my opinion.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Jupiter Jones said:
A preview and Beta are not necessarily the same.
I would not assume preview meant Beta unless Microsoft said so and there
is no indication DreamScene is Beta.
However the lack of the word "Beta" is significant since AFAIK, the word
Beta is always associated with Microsoft Beta products.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


I noticed that DreamScene is a 'preview' - AFAIK that indicates it is
some sort of pre-production beta-ware. What I don't understand is that
it is offered as part of updates and extras as if it were RTM. Shouldn't
they [Microsoft] just offer a web link for their pre-production stuff
and wait until it is RTM'd, so to speak, before they release software as
an update?

And is there any MS policy regarding the lexicon or words they will use
to indicate whether an update is beta or RTM?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Yup. IMO, Microsoft should forthwith cease and desist. Updates shouldn't
degrade into a "second-guessing" game, full of fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
It would make it impossible. I don't want to have to go back to manually
downloaded updates and qchain.

:)

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Dale said:
I agree completely. By putting non-production software on Windows Update,
Windows Update has become nothing more than a marketing tool that happens
to delivery security patches as well.

Dale

Saucy said:
I don't think it belongs there whatever the wording. If they keep it up
[releasing post/pre/ rc preview betas to the updates] they will have
people double guessing the updates. People are having issues with this
update (resource hog sometimes) so it shouldn't have gone in as an
'update' or 'extra'. Just my opinion.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Jupiter Jones said:
A preview and Beta are not necessarily the same.
I would not assume preview meant Beta unless Microsoft said so and there
is no indication DreamScene is Beta.
However the lack of the word "Beta" is significant since AFAIK, the word
Beta is always associated with Microsoft Beta products.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


I noticed that DreamScene is a 'preview' - AFAIK that indicates it is
some sort of pre-production beta-ware. What I don't understand is that
it is offered as part of updates and extras as if it were RTM. Shouldn't
they [Microsoft] just offer a web link for their pre-production stuff
and wait until it is RTM'd, so to speak, before they release software as
an update?

And is there any MS policy regarding the lexicon or words they will use
to indicate whether an update is beta or RTM?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
To be honest, JJ, this is the first time I've seen beta (or alpha or preview
or rc or whatever you want to call it - I call it beta) software released
among the updates.

Although, sure, it's said all software is "beta" to some extent, to be
honest, the RTM stuff is usually something one can expect to work properly
in most situations for the time being. But releasing pre-production stuff as
an update?? Hmm .. I think they should quit now while they are ahead.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Jupiter Jones said:
Dale.
Windows Update has long been far more than for just security updates.
For many users, security and important performance patches is all they see
since they use Automatic Update.

The Extras are just that and not installed automatically along with
optional and recommended updates.
Do not read more into the intent of Windows Update than is there.

The typical user will mostly never see the optional or recommended
updates.
For most the closest they get to Windows/Microsoft Update is when Windows
needs to reboot after automatically installing the updates.
But then users of Ultimate are far from typical.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


Dale said:
I agree completely. By putting non-production software on Windows Update,
Windows Update has become nothing more than a marketing tool that happens
to delivery security patches as well.

Dale

Saucy said:
I don't think it belongs there whatever the wording. If they keep it up
[releasing post/pre/ rc preview betas to the updates] they will have
people double guessing the updates. People are having issues with this
update (resource hog sometimes) so it shouldn't have gone in as an
'update' or 'extra'. Just my opinion.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



A preview and Beta are not necessarily the same.
I would not assume preview meant Beta unless Microsoft said so and
there is no indication DreamScene is Beta.
However the lack of the word "Beta" is significant since AFAIK, the
word Beta is always associated with Microsoft Beta products.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


I noticed that DreamScene is a 'preview' - AFAIK that indicates it is
some sort of pre-production beta-ware. What I don't understand is that
it is offered as part of updates and extras as if it were RTM.
Shouldn't they [Microsoft] just offer a web link for their
pre-production stuff and wait until it is RTM'd, so to speak, before
they release software as an update?

And is there any MS policy regarding the lexicon or words they will
use to indicate whether an update is beta or RTM?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
DreamScene was not automatic on my computer. I had to manually choose it. It
was the same with Windows XP. They had "optional" updates that were not
delivered automatically. You had to make the effort to get them.

For those using Ultimate (the only users who can get these special updates)
I would like to think that they are a "cut above" the average user. But,
then again, maybe not.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!



Saucy said:
Yup. IMO, Microsoft should forthwith cease and desist. Updates shouldn't
degrade into a "second-guessing" game, full of fear, uncertainty, and
doubt. It would make it impossible. I don't want to have to go back to
manually downloaded updates and qchain.

:)

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Dale said:
I agree completely. By putting non-production software on Windows Update,
Windows Update has become nothing more than a marketing tool that happens
to delivery security patches as well.

Dale

Saucy said:
I don't think it belongs there whatever the wording. If they keep it up
[releasing post/pre/ rc preview betas to the updates] they will have
people double guessing the updates. People are having issues with this
update (resource hog sometimes) so it shouldn't have gone in as an
'update' or 'extra'. Just my opinion.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



A preview and Beta are not necessarily the same.
I would not assume preview meant Beta unless Microsoft said so and
there is no indication DreamScene is Beta.
However the lack of the word "Beta" is significant since AFAIK, the
word Beta is always associated with Microsoft Beta products.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


I noticed that DreamScene is a 'preview' - AFAIK that indicates it is
some sort of pre-production beta-ware. What I don't understand is that
it is offered as part of updates and extras as if it were RTM.
Shouldn't they [Microsoft] just offer a web link for their
pre-production stuff and wait until it is RTM'd, so to speak, before
they release software as an update?

And is there any MS policy regarding the lexicon or words they will
use to indicate whether an update is beta or RTM?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I just looked over your post and do not see anything that approaches a
flame.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Have you expressed that opinion where there is better assurance that the
correct people at Microsoft get the message?
This is not the place if that is your intent.
Since these are peer to peer newsgroups, there is no requirement or
expectation that anyone at Microsoft, much less the Product Group
applicable, will ever see your message.

I do not see it in Vista, but in my Windows XP Microsoft Update settings
there is a check box "Show Beta products and related updates"
It has been there for a long time.
 
Are you guys really that paranoid and unable to read?

The UI is showing you both Extras & Updates.

There's a reason why it shows everything in different categories.

Windows Update has its own category.
Language Packs have their own category.
Ultimate Extras have their own category.
Microsoft Update has its own category.

Each item is separate from the other.

If you can't tell this then maybe you should just turn off Extras, Microsoft
Update, and just stick with the Windows Updates only.

That would remove all confusion and doubt you could possibly have.

Saucy said:
Yup. IMO, Microsoft should forthwith cease and desist. Updates shouldn't
degrade into a "second-guessing" game, full of fear, uncertainty, and
doubt. It would make it impossible. I don't want to have to go back to
manually downloaded updates and qchain.

:)

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Dale said:
I agree completely. By putting non-production software on Windows Update,
Windows Update has become nothing more than a marketing tool that happens
to delivery security patches as well.

Dale

Saucy said:
I don't think it belongs there whatever the wording. If they keep it up
[releasing post/pre/ rc preview betas to the updates] they will have
people double guessing the updates. People are having issues with this
update (resource hog sometimes) so it shouldn't have gone in as an
'update' or 'extra'. Just my opinion.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



A preview and Beta are not necessarily the same.
I would not assume preview meant Beta unless Microsoft said so and
there is no indication DreamScene is Beta.
However the lack of the word "Beta" is significant since AFAIK, the
word Beta is always associated with Microsoft Beta products.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


I noticed that DreamScene is a 'preview' - AFAIK that indicates it is
some sort of pre-production beta-ware. What I don't understand is that
it is offered as part of updates and extras as if it were RTM.
Shouldn't they [Microsoft] just offer a web link for their
pre-production stuff and wait until it is RTM'd, so to speak, before
they release software as an update?

And is there any MS policy regarding the lexicon or words they will
use to indicate whether an update is beta or RTM?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Extras and Updates are on the same page. There is no "Betas" section where
this preview beta probably should have gone .. of course, this is just my
opinion, but I think I am correct.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Shane Nokes said:
Are you guys really that paranoid and unable to read?

The UI is showing you both Extras & Updates.

There's a reason why it shows everything in different categories.

Windows Update has its own category.
Language Packs have their own category.
Ultimate Extras have their own category.
Microsoft Update has its own category.

Each item is separate from the other.

If you can't tell this then maybe you should just turn off Extras,
Microsoft Update, and just stick with the Windows Updates only.

That would remove all confusion and doubt you could possibly have.

Saucy said:
Yup. IMO, Microsoft should forthwith cease and desist. Updates shouldn't
degrade into a "second-guessing" game, full of fear, uncertainty, and
doubt. It would make it impossible. I don't want to have to go back to
manually downloaded updates and qchain.

:)

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Dale said:
I agree completely. By putting non-production software on Windows
Update, Windows Update has become nothing more than a marketing tool that
happens to delivery security patches as well.

Dale

I don't think it belongs there whatever the wording. If they keep it up
[releasing post/pre/ rc preview betas to the updates] they will have
people double guessing the updates. People are having issues with this
update (resource hog sometimes) so it shouldn't have gone in as an
'update' or 'extra'. Just my opinion.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



A preview and Beta are not necessarily the same.
I would not assume preview meant Beta unless Microsoft said so and
there is no indication DreamScene is Beta.
However the lack of the word "Beta" is significant since AFAIK, the
word Beta is always associated with Microsoft Beta products.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


I noticed that DreamScene is a 'preview' - AFAIK that indicates it is
some sort of pre-production beta-ware. What I don't understand is that
it is offered as part of updates and extras as if it were RTM.
Shouldn't they [Microsoft] just offer a web link for their
pre-production stuff and wait until it is RTM'd, so to speak, before
they release software as an update?

And is there any MS policy regarding the lexicon or words they will
use to indicate whether an update is beta or RTM?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Well this is just my opinion stated on a peer-to-peer general newsgroup. If
Microsoft wants me to work on their products they can pay me!

:)

But, I do think it is not unreasonable to suggest they shouldn't do this. It
might be a good idea that they do, but then again, for the reason I stated
[second-guessing],it might not be such a good idea to throw in the Betas w/o
clearily marking them so. I guess Microsoft thinks "Preview" is sufficient
and it may well be .. but I think they should just leave the betas off and
away from the page that does the Updates.

Thnx for the replies JJ.

--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com



Jupiter Jones said:
Have you expressed that opinion where there is better assurance that the
correct people at Microsoft get the message?
This is not the place if that is your intent.
Since these are peer to peer newsgroups, there is no requirement or
expectation that anyone at Microsoft, much less the Product Group
applicable, will ever see your message.

I do not see it in Vista, but in my Windows XP Microsoft Update settings
there is a check box "Show Beta products and related updates"
It has been there for a long time.
Click to expand...
 
But you are assuming it is a Beta.
It may be, but right now everything indicates otherwise.

"If Microsoft wants..."
If everyone thinks that way, little to nothing customers thought a good idea
would ever get to developers who work on a product.

Do you feel the same about other products?
Microsoft is far from the only one who provides channels for customer
feedback and relies heavily on them for future product changes.
Or do you only withhold improvement suggestion on software?
 
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