U
Unknown
Why do you need it?
Leonard Grey said:
J
John John (MVP)
Oh for crying out loud! If you insist on running your computer off deep
cycle batteries then design your power supply solution around that,
don't try to mickey mouse a factory UPS to use batteries it wasn't
designed to use!
John
cycle batteries then design your power supply solution around that,
don't try to mickey mouse a factory UPS to use batteries it wasn't
designed to use!
John
J
John John (MVP)
Buffalo said:
Why would one even bother buying an off the shelf UPS if they wanted to
use deep cycle batteries for their emergency power supply?
John
B
Buffalo
John said:
I think it's feasible and I was just asking.
Saving around $100 for a longer lasting UPS (how long it supplies power
after the main power is off) is still quite a bit of money for me.
Since I recieved no helpful replies, I consider it closed.
Thanks
B
Buffalo
John John (MVP) wrote:
[snip]
To make the UPS supply power last longer during a black-out and because of
the software supplied with the UPS.
But never mind, I think we are talking about two different things.
Bye
PS: It's the size (capacity) of the battery in the UPS that LIMITS the time
it can supply power to the PC during a power failure.
[snip]
To make the UPS supply power last longer during a black-out and because of
the software supplied with the UPS.
But never mind, I think we are talking about two different things.
Bye
PS: It's the size (capacity) of the battery in the UPS that LIMITS the time
it can supply power to the PC during a power failure.
J
John John (MVP)
Buffalo said:
The battery charger inside a $100 UPS is designed to charge the 5 to
10-amp hour battery that it is designed to use, do you seriously think
that it will be sufficient to properly charge a 100-amp hour or more
deep cycle battery? Do you think that you can properly charge a 100-amp
hour deep cycle battery with a 1 or 2 amp trickle charge?
John
J
John John (MVP)
Buffalo said:
Yes, we all know that the size of the battery will determine how long
the UPS can supply power. What you don't understand is that almost
everything in a cheap $100 UPS is woefully inadequate to properly charge
and maintain a 100+ amp hour deep cycle battery.
John
U
Unknown
Whoa-----not me. I misinterpreted the post I responded to. I thought you
meant the UPS 'runs' on AC.
(Must be plugged in to supply voltage to the computer when power fails) My
mistake.
meant the UPS 'runs' on AC.
(Must be plugged in to supply voltage to the computer when power fails) My
mistake.
John John (MVP) said:
B
Buffalo
You assume way too much.John said:
B
Buffalo
You assume way too much.John said:
B
Buffalo
Where the hell did you come up with a 100AH battery.John said:
Again you are assuming way too much.
Please stick to what you know.
If your really a MVP, stick with that.
Thanks
J
John John (MVP)
Buffalo said:
Who was it that said "...you could probably use a sealed marine
battery..."? Do you even have an inkling of the ratings and size
classification of "marine batteries"?
I'm not assuming, it's plainly obvious that don't know very much about
how a UPS works and you know even less about how batteries are charged
and maintained! A $100 UPS couldn't even charge and maintain a small
car battery.
John
B
Buffalo
How would you know??John said:
Do you even know the charging rate is in $100 catorgory UPS?
Did you know that you can charge a 600AH car battery with a trickle charger
putting out only 1 amp?
Do you know anything about electricity except to respect it? ( Damn, I hope
you do.)
Do you know the difference between a 'sealed' lead-acid battery, a
motorcycle lead-acid battery, a car lead-acid battery, a marine lead-acid
battery, etc? I really doubt it.
Stick to what you know.
Cheers.
Next time don't reply to stuff you have no inkling about.
EXAMPLE:
I said:
" Hey Ken, have you or anyone you know ever replaced the battery for an UPS
YOU said:
"Computers and regular UPS don't work on 12v DC current, they mostly all
run on standard household current. With a simple plug adapter you can
run a laptop on a car battery but you can't run desktop equipment off
automobile batteries. You would need to run the car battery through a
power inverter. And of course, like Ken said, who wants a lead acid
battery in the house?
John"
Read it three times or more and maybe you will get what I was asking.
J
John John (MVP)
Buffalo said:
I would know because as part of our work we have sold and installed
battery packs and charging systems for use with commercial aircrafts and
emergency vehicles. Most deep cell batteries need a minimum of 10 to 20
amps to be charged.
I can tell you that during the "bulk" charge stage, the stage where a
battery can be charged at its fastest possible rate, the current should
not exceed 20-25% of the battery's amp rating, any more than that will
cause the battery to overheat and cause dangerous charging conditions
that may cause the battery to explode. So now just look at the size of
the batteries in your UPS and then using simple math you figure out the
probable maximum charge rate of the UPS, surely you should now be able
to figure that out for yourself.
Oh really, the battery had better be nearly new and not very badly
discharged, a car battery that is in bad shape or in a badly discharged
state cannot be charged at a 1 amp rate, the discharge rate of the
battery will probably be greater than the charge rate. You should ask
your mechanic about this and listen to what he has to tell you, maybe
you will learn something.
Let me see, I learned about marine batteries during the 10 years that I
worked in a shipyard, where did you learn about marine batteries and how
to charge them?
I really doubt it.
Stick to what you know.
Cheers.
Next time don't reply to stuff you have no inkling about.
You obviously don't know as much as you think about UPS, batteries and
battery charging systems, if you had you would have never even bothered
to ask your question in the first place. As for my not getting what you
were asking, I thought that only an idiot would try to bodge an
automobile battery onto a computer UPS, I hadn't thought of you as that
kind of an idiot. All I can tell you now is that being that you already
know the answer to your question why don't you just proceed with your
plan and find out for yourself how well your bodged up UPS will work!
John
B
Buffalo
You haven't told me one thing that I didn't already know.John said:
Stick to software and you'll be great.
You are way too arrogant and ignorant to reply to my original question.
Read it again and again and again.
Pretty soon, you will get it.
You talk a good game, but that's probably how you got that MVP rating. Pure
BS.
B
Buffalo
John said:
That is possibly correct. I should have never mentioned them because their
main purpose is to withstand many totally discharge and recharges. Unlikely
for a UPS type need.
This again shows your ignorance of what it takes to keep a battery charged
or even to charge it at a very slow rate.
Again you are assuming that a PSU battery needs to be recharged at the
'fastest' possible rate. Total BS.
It can be charged at a much lower rate (around 1 amp) and this is much
easier on the battery.
You are just a talker who shows his ignorance on the topic.
Yeah, usually the batteries in UPS units are used very hard and can be
recharged at a very low rate.
You are actually correct on the statement that a battery in bad shape will
probably not accept a charge that can only max out at 1 amp.
I'm amazed you finally got something right.
I fix my own stuff, unlike you, who can afford a mechanic because you
probably don't possess the mechanical sense,or ability, to even tune up your
own vehicle, let alone know how to change a flat.
So you learn about the ins and outs of marine batteries by working in a
shipyard.
C'mon now.
You didn't even understand my inquery (question) based on your inane
response.
Let me repeat it:
"YOU said:
"Computers and regular UPS don't work on 12v DC current, they mostly all
run on standard household current. With a simple plug adapter you can
run a laptop on a car battery but you can't run desktop equipment off
automobile batteries. You would need to run the car battery through a
power inverter. And of course, like Ken said, who wants a lead acid
battery in the house?
John"
Total BS answer by someone that did not understand the question. If you
still don't understand the question, refer to it again.
Again you give the answer of an arrogant BS artist, not that you are one,
you just act and sound like one.
Why don't you just get a good nights rest and admit you are wrong and have
acted like an idiot because you can not accept that you misread and that you
are the real IDIOT, at least this time.
J
John John (MVP)
Buffalo said:
You really don't get it, do you? Most small computer PSU's are fitted
with 5 to 10 amp/hour batteries, these small capacity batteries can be
charged at a very low amp rate, like the 1 amp that you mentioned.
Bigger batteries such as automobile batteries cannot be effectively
charged at such a low rate, especially not if the battery is discharged
to any significant amount or if the battery is older and in a poor
state. A small 2 amp charge rate is sufficient to charge a small
motorcycle battery but it isn't much of any good for a bigger car
battery, all that it is good for on these bigger batteries it to
maintain a properly charged battery at its current charge level, if the
battery is only slightly discharged and in good shape then such a small
charge rate will allow you to top off and maintain the battery,
otherwise forget about charging a car battery at this low charge rate,
it just isn't practically feasible, if it can even charge the battery it
will take an eternity to charge it!
What I am telling you is that if you want to use a deep cycle battery or
a regular car battery for your UPS battery you will have to plan your
charging needs, you will not be able to charge these kinds of batteries
with the UPS, you will have to invest in a charger that delivers
adequate charging power to do the job, a "slow" charge on a discharged
100 amp hour battery takes more than 24 hours at 10 amps. If you don't
believe any of that then maybe you should hear it from a company that
builds and sells automobile battery chargers:
http://www.schumacherproducts.com/faq?id=0004
I have nothing else to add to this conversation, do as you please with
the information and do as you please with your car battery and your UPS.
John
B
Buffalo
John John (MVP) wrote:
[snip]
More conjecture and speculation. I have brought back larger batteries by
using a 2 amp max charge on them when they were almost dead.
A bad choice on my part.
It should read 'totally discharged' and 'may' take more than 24 hrs,
although it would most likely be much quicker than that.
My sole purpose was to see if I could possibly use a bigger battery than the
one that came in my UPS. It is time to replace its battery and I wanted the
UPS to supply power longer (perhaps 7-10 min) during a power outage without
spending too many extra dollars. The main difference in a lower output rated
UPS and a somewhat larger one, just seems to be the size of the battery
(physical and rating).
I was asking if anyone had tried the above and all I got was a lecture from
you, who didn't EVEN understand the original question.
You know basically nothing about the subject, yet you continue to prattle on
like you are some kind on expert on the subject.
Yes, I can use Google too.
and that is where I will most likely find my
answer.
Sorry for wasting your and anyone elses time.
[snip]
More conjecture and speculation. I have brought back larger batteries by
using a 2 amp max charge on them when they were almost dead.
A bad choice on my part.
It should read 'totally discharged' and 'may' take more than 24 hrs,
although it would most likely be much quicker than that.
My sole purpose was to see if I could possibly use a bigger battery than the
one that came in my UPS. It is time to replace its battery and I wanted the
UPS to supply power longer (perhaps 7-10 min) during a power outage without
spending too many extra dollars. The main difference in a lower output rated
UPS and a somewhat larger one, just seems to be the size of the battery
(physical and rating).
I was asking if anyone had tried the above and all I got was a lecture from
you, who didn't EVEN understand the original question.
You know basically nothing about the subject, yet you continue to prattle on
like you are some kind on expert on the subject.
Yes, I can use Google too.
and that is where I will most likely find myanswer.
Sorry for wasting your and anyone elses time.
R
Ron Rosenfeld
The answer is that you can, *IF* you know what you are doing and know something
about the charging and battery specifications on the UPS you will be using.
People have used the inverter in a UPS, along with a larger than original
battery, in various types of off-grid applications.
The usual type of car battery is not really safe to use inside a dwelling. But
there are various types of sealed lead-acid batteries which could be used (gel
cell or AGM). You might be able to pick up something used at a reasonable
price.
Try using Google to search some of the renewable energy news groups for more
information.
--ron
B
Buffalo
Ron said:
Thank you for the only common sense reply I have received.
Yes, sealed lead-acid batteries are the much perferred choice.