Postscript still important for laser printers? How much RAM is enough? LexMark?

[Andrew Hamilton]

I need to buy a "small office" laser printer to replace my Samsung
ML-2150, which has gotten very erratic lately. This printer has
Postscript emulation and 16 MB of RAM. (Years ago, I tried to upgrade
the RAM, but could not find a compatible third-party memory stick.)

Is Postscript emulation still important. I do mostly text, but also a
lot of PowerPoint, including graphics, plus the usual Excel graphics,
webpages, etc.

How much memory is really needed? I would like to be able to spool
off a 5 or 10 MB PowerPoint preso to the printer as soon as I click on
PRINT. Right now, my PowerPoint jobs often take several minutes to
complete, before PowerPoint is ready to do other tasks.

Finally, I have found a LexMark printer for about $200 that does
PostScript, has Ethernet support, etc. But I have the impression that
LexMark is not a quality brand. Is this correct?

Thanks,

-AH

 

[Warren Block]

I need to buy a "small office" laser printer to replace my Samsung
ML-2150, which has gotten very erratic lately. This printer has
Postscript emulation and 16 MB of RAM. (Years ago, I tried to upgrade
the RAM, but could not find a compatible third-party memory stick.)

Is Postscript emulation still important. I do mostly text, but also a
lot of PowerPoint, including graphics, plus the usual Excel graphics,
webpages, etc.

That's a judgement call. I'd say yes. A PCL-only printer is livable,
and some people can use a host-based printer without problems. But a PS
printer gives you more options and is more versatile.

How much memory is really needed? I would like to be able to spool
off a 5 or 10 MB PowerPoint preso to the printer as soon as I click on
PRINT. Right now, my PowerPoint jobs often take several minutes to
complete, before PowerPoint is ready to do other tasks.

More is usually better, although it depends on the printer and how it
allocates the memory. Adjusting how the computer spools the print job
can also make a big difference.

Finally, I have found a LexMark printer for about $200 that does
PostScript, has Ethernet support, etc. But I have the impression that
LexMark is not a quality brand. Is this correct?

I've been advising people to stay away from Lexmark for a long time.
Their high-end lasers are supposed to be good, but I may never know
because their anti-customer policies of years ago combined with their
terrible disposable low-end printers convinced me that giving money to
Lexmark will just encourage them.

You may be able to find a good deal on a used business-class laser which
will not have the problems of a low-end model:

http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/usedlasers.html

 

[MD34]

I've been advising people to stay away from Lexmark for a long time.
Their high-end lasers are supposed to be good, but I may never know
because their anti-customer policies of years ago combined with their
terrible disposable low-end printers convinced me that giving money to
Lexmark will just encourage them.

I used to service Lexmark laser and color laser printers and hated them.
Everything was hard to get to, tech support/parts order sucked big time.
Documentation was terrible.

Replacement feed units were often refurbed, which is OK, but many had the same
problem you were trying to fix, so they probably were never touched in the
repair depot.

Their inkjets were absolute junk

 

[Andrew Hamilton]

That's a judgement call. I'd say yes. A PCL-only printer is livable,
and some people can use a host-based printer without problems. But a PS
printer gives you more options and is more versatile.

Sounds like I really should have a Postscript printer. I am
self-employed and can't deal with printer limitation hassles.

More is usually better, although it depends on the printer and how it
allocates the memory. Adjusting how the computer spools the print job
can also make a big difference.

Oh. How can that be done?

I've been advising people to stay away from Lexmark for a long time.

LOL! Especially what MD34 said and he used to service the things!

Their high-end lasers are supposed to be good, but I may never know
because their anti-customer policies of years ago combined with their
terrible disposable low-end printers convinced me that giving money to
Lexmark will just encourage them.

What a shame. I'm enough of an old-timer to remember that Lexmark was
an IBM spinoff, for printers, keyboards, and other stuff (?). The old
IBM keyboards were my all-time favorites, and say what you might about
IBM, they usually didn't produce junk or have anti-customer policies.
Quite the opposite. Maybe they needed to expel this "foreign
organism" from their overall organization.

You may be able to find a good deal on a used business-class laser which
will not have the problems of a low-end model:

http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/usedlasers.html

Thanks, but I'm nervous about buying used stuff like printers. when I
used to work for companies, I saw plenty of printers that were simply
worn out, like a Hyundai with 200,000 miles!

 

[Andrew Hamilton]

I used to service Lexmark laser and color laser printers and hated them.
Everything was hard to get to, tech support/parts order sucked big time.
Documentation was terrible.

Replacement feed units were often refurbed, which is OK, but many had the same
problem you were trying to fix, so they probably were never touched in the
repair depot.

All good reasons to avoid them. In some ways this sounds like the
situation with my Samsung ML-2150. That printer has been to the shop
twice, because both mainboards failed, costing more money than the
money I saved by not buying the equivalent HP unit. And don't get
stared on the lousy treatment I got from Samsung when I had some
problems with a Samsung cellphone.

 

[Tim Okergit]

I used to service Lexmark laser and color laser printers and hated them.
Everything was hard to get to, tech support/parts order sucked big time.
Documentation was terrible.

In about a year, I'll buy a color printer for printing photographs. As
I've already said, years ago, I switched from A Canon BJ-300 to an HP
Laserjet 1012. I can almost say it was a change in lifestyle.

The BJ-300 ink was so expensive it drove me nuts and dealing with Canon
Canada was a hooredous experience. OTOH, printing with the HP laserjet
has always been a no-issue experience (that is after they updated the
Linux driver about 6 months after I bought it). Here is how ot works:

1) Plug the printer into a power outlet
2) Plug the USB cable into the computer
3) Put some paper in the tray
4) Turn the printer on
5) CTRL + P
6) Click "Print"

and it prints, every time, without a dpi missing or being added.

I don't have printer concerns anymore. The thing is there, it's a
printer, and it prints!

So, I don't intend to go back to inkjet printing and cleaningprint heads
ebery tiem I print. As for Canon, it's out for the rest of my life. I
don't ever want to hear about Canon anymore.

Though I won't print much, maybe 500 pages/year, I'd rather pay more on
the printer and less on consumables, even if it turned out to be cheaper
to buy a flimsy thing that brings profits on consumables. I don't agree
with this way of doing business and it infuriates me. (Note that the
Canon BJ-300 sold for $550... in 1989 and that ink cartridges that would
barely print more than 350 pages costed $30. I didn't consider this
closely enough when I bought.)

So, given that I won't print much, that I want inkjet comparable
quality, that I don't need wireless or networking, that I need fully
compatible Linux drivers, which printer would you go for?

 

[Tim Okergit]

Sounds like I really should have a Postscript printer. I am
self-employed and can't deal with printer limitation hassles.

Maybe Andrew can explain further what he means by "more options and more
versatile" -- I must admit my needs are fairly basic -- but PCL
certainly does the job on my now old Laserjet 1012. (It doesn't feel old
in any way

I had the same worry when I bought this printer but never regretted.
Maybe the PCL drivers other manufacturers provide leave to be desired, I
have no idea, but the PCL standards are open, I believe. Linux drivers
for HP printers certainly are. So I suppose if the PCL drivers don't
work well, maybe the same will go for PS.

I'd certainly appreciate more explanations from Andrew for my own benefit.

Oh. How can that be done?

Windows: http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-5034678.html

Linux: ...no idea. I never had to tweek a spool file. Maybe, since Linux
was basically designed as a server OS, it spools and sends everything to
the printer as the memory empties.

But maybe this is completely wrong. Experts, please?

 

[Tim Okergit]

All good reasons to avoid them. In some ways this sounds like the
situation with my Samsung ML-2150.

Oops, I din't know this. I almost bought a Samsung printer instead of my
HP since it was a bit cheaper, but the store manager told me to go for
the HP eyes closed. I thought if he was wrong I'd have better reason to
kick his ass if I went for HP

 

[Warren Block]

Maybe Andrew can explain further what he means by "more options and more
versatile" -- I must admit my needs are fairly basic -- but PCL
certainly does the job on my now old Laserjet 1012. (It doesn't feel old
in any way

I had the same worry when I bought this printer but never regretted.
Maybe the PCL drivers other manufacturers provide leave to be desired, I
have no idea, but the PCL standards are open, I believe. Linux drivers
for HP printers certainly are. So I suppose if the PCL drivers don't
work well, maybe the same will go for PS.

I'd certainly appreciate more explanations from Andrew for my own benefit.

That's a quote from me. PostScript is the standard page description
language, usable on everything from low-end printers all the way to
overgrown copiers. It's resolution-independent: the same file can be
printed on a 300 DPI laser or a 2400 DPI phototypesetter. PCL, by
contrast, is only text or bitmap. If you get a PostScript printer, you
generally get PCL included for free.

 

[Warren Block]

On 07/24/2010 01:37 PM, MD34 wrote:

So, given that I won't print much, that I want inkjet comparable
quality, that I don't need wireless or networking, that I need fully
compatible Linux drivers, which printer would you go for?

There may not be a good answer to that. Epson has open-source drivers
and the printers don't seem to be terribly prone to clogging or drying
out. Good ink and photo paper is still expensive, though.

Another option would be local or online photo printing services like
mpix.com. That can be a lot cheaper than maintaining your own inkjet.

 

[Tim Okergit]

There may not be a good answer to that. Epson has open-source drivers
and the printers don't seem to be terribly prone to clogging or drying
out.

??? Arthur Entlich who often help solve Epson problems on this group
even has a guide on unclogging!

Good ink and photo paper is still expensive, though.

From what I've seen, laser color printing doesn't come cheap either but
I suppose it might be cheaper. Which price ratio do you figure?

Another option would be local or online photo printing services like
mpix.com. That can be a lot cheaper than maintaining your own inkjet.

I doubt it. An 8½ x 11 is $3 at mpix, plus sales taxes in Canada.
Postage maybe? Even at 500 sheets a year, it would be $1,500. So I
certainly expect the printer to pay for itself in less than a year.

 

[Tim Okergit]

That's a quote from me. PostScript is the standard page description
language, usable on everything from low-end printers all the way to
overgrown copiers.

I only expect my printer languaeg to work on MY printer.

"Printer Command Language, more commonly referred to as PCL, is a Page
description language (PDL) developed by HP as a printer protocol and
*has become a de facto industry standard*."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_Command_Language

This seems pretty standard to me!

It's resolution-independent: the same file can be
printed on a 300 DPI laser or a 2400 DPI phototypesetter.

I don't intend to send my pictures to photo typesetters. And, if I ever
had to, I could send them a copy of the original.

 

[Warren Block]

??? Arthur Entlich who often help solve Epson problems on this group
even has a guide on unclogging!


From what I've seen, laser color printing doesn't come cheap either but
I suppose it might be cheaper. Which price ratio do you figure?

I've never really worked out color laser price per page. Partly that's
because a photo printed on a laser just can't compare to the shades and
ranges available on an inkjet. Rough guess would be that color laser
printing is something like 1/2 to 1/10 the cost of inkjet.

I doubt it. An 8½ x 11 is $3 at mpix, plus sales taxes in Canada.
Postage maybe? Even at 500 sheets a year, it would be $1,500. So I
certainly expect the printer to pay for itself in less than a year.

It really depends on what you're printing and what quality level you
expect.

Do you think you can print 8x10 or 8.5x11 on an inkjet with photo
paper and non-fading OEM ink for less than $3 Canadian?

As an example, a set of black and color ink for the older Epson six-ink
printers is $18 + $66 US, + $27 for sixty sheets of paper. You'd have
to get 60 perfect 8x10 prints from that, and I'm skeptical if that's
possible. And that would still cost just a bit more per print than the
photo lab prints at $2 (US) each.

A CIS could reduce that a lot. So could cheaper supplies, but whether
that's acceptable depends on what you're doing with the prints. Sending
them to relatives? No big deal. Selling them as art? Color matching
and fading are important.

 

[Tim Okergit]

I've never really worked out color laser price per page. Partly that's
because a photo printed on a laser just can't compare to the shades and
ranges available on an inkjet.

Really? Even with a printer that would cost, say, $500?

It really depends on what you're printing and what quality level you
expect.

Do you think you can print 8x10 or 8.5x11 on an inkjet with photo
paper and non-fading OEM ink for less than $3 Canadian?

As an example, a set of black and color ink for the older Epson six-ink
printers is $18 + $66 US, + $27 for sixty sheets of paper. You'd have
to get 60 perfect 8x10 prints from that, and I'm skeptical if that's
possible. And that would still cost just a bit more per print than the
photo lab prints at $2 (US) each.

If you count only the consumables, it's $111 / 60 , so less that $2.
Also, I've had bad experiences with labs for... chemical process color
printing. Is it right to assume that if you provide a digital picture of
good quality that's how it will come out once printed?

A CIS could reduce that a lot. So could cheaper supplies, but whether
that's acceptable depends on what you're doing with the prints. Sending
them to relatives? No big deal. Selling them as art? Color matching
and fading are important.

Even if it was to send to relatives, second quality wouldn't be
acceptable to me. I suppose I'll have to send a picture or two to one or
two labs before I buy a printer

 

[Andrew Hamilton]

Oops, I din't know this. I almost bought a Samsung printer instead of my
HP since it was a bit cheaper, but the store manager told me to go for
the HP eyes closed. I thought if he was wrong I'd have better reason to
kick his ass if I went for HP

What's the name of that store? I want to buy my next printer there
also. Serious, I will never, ever again buy a Samsung printer.
Their proprietary memory stick upgrade just rankled me, and I didn't
know that until after I bought the printer. The fact that both of the
circuit boards in this printer failed, with expensive/inconvenient
repairs each time. The fact that this printer is failing again, with
"Internal Error" messages, with less than 50,000 prints lifetime!

Normally if I upgraded my printer, I would donate the old one to the
nearest "Goodwill" charity, but this one goes straight to the local
e-recycling center.

 

[Andrew Hamilton]

Maybe Andrew can explain further what he means by "more options and more
versatile" -- I must admit my needs are fairly basic -- but PCL
certainly does the job on my now old Laserjet 1012. (It doesn't feel old
in any way

Tim,

That wasn't me talking about "more options ..." That was someone
replying to me. I was the OP asking about the continued importance of
Postscript.

Windows: http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-5034678.html

Thanks for the pointer.

-AH

 

[Andrew Hamilton]

The important cost factor in a laser printer can be the replacement toner.
If you do a large volume of work the cost of the printer itself can be
relatively insignificant to the cost of replacing the toner.

John,

Thanks for this posting. In my experience over the years, service
costs are also important, at least for my small office/home office
application.

My first printer, years ago, was a QMS 810 PS, and that printer lasted
probably 15 years. Over that time, several repairs were necessary,
but since this printer was based on a Canon print engine that was
common to contemporary HP LaserJet printers, it was quick and
inexpensive to get repairs done. And there were multiple third--party
choices for toner cartridges. I should add that the QMS printer,
while ancient by today's standards, was extremely rugged and reliable.

Quite the opposite experience with my Samsung printer. That's why I'm
seriously considering the appropriate HP printer.

RAM

The RAM you need depends on the work you do. Double-sided printing takes
more - multiple collated copies takes even more. You need to check that the
printer is capable of doing the type of work you need to do and then check
the RAM needed with the printer manufacturer.

The HP printer I'm considering (P2055dn) comes with 128 MB standard.
That's plenty, even for double-sided printing with bitmaps.

HARD DISK (expensive!)

Printers with a built-in hard disk can often tackle larger and more complex
jobs as well as being able to remember routine work. Again consider you
requirements and check with the manufacturer.

Not for my application! But people should be aware that when they
replace the entire printer, or just the hard disk, the hard disk
should be scrubbed. Otherwise a hacker could recover confidential
information from the hard drive.

PC/RISCOS

By RISCOS, do you mean Solaris, or any non-Windows/nonMac OS?

-AH

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I'm not trying to challenge your personal experiences with the Canon
versus HP printers, but to be fair, you really cannot compare a color
laser printer to an inkjet. Even the printer divisions may be different
in terms of support in the same company.

For many years HP used Canon engines in their laser printers, and it was
with those engines that HP developed the "never die" printer reputation.
The BJ inkjet line was a poorly made product, such that even Canon
recognized it and spent many millions of developing a completely new
inkjet printer from scratch, the "i" series, which has been very popular
and pretty reliable (as inkjet printers go).

HP has produced both stellar and dog printers in both their inkjet and
laser lineups, so one needs to look at the specific model, the cost of
acquisition as well as cost of consumables and add ons, and reliability.

I would not go on name or brand alone. They quality and costs vary
widely between models. I would agree that, in general, the less you pay
for a printer to buy it, the more the consumables will be, especially
with laser printers these days.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Warren Block]

Really? Even with a printer that would cost, say, $500?

Unfortunately, yes. Color lasers have fixed toner colors, and those
colors are opaque and can't really be mixed. They can dither dots, but
that reduces the effective resolution. An inkjet can overprint to make
shades.

If you count only the consumables, it's $111 / 60 , so less that $2.

Yes, if in fact you can get 60 8x10 prints. That seems really unlikely
to me. Even half of that still seems unlikely.

Even if it was to send to relatives, second quality wouldn't be
acceptable to me. I suppose I'll have to send a picture or two to one or
two labs before I buy a printer

That's the only way to really be sure.

 

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Really? Even with a printer that would cost, say, $500?

Unfortunately, yes. Color lasers have fixed toner colors, and those
colors are opaque and can't really be mixed.[/QUOTE]

got more than $500 to spend?