Please Help

[Mary]

I just got a new ATI 9000 Pro video card today and can't get it installed
(it was a choice between 9000 Pro or 9200. I hope I didn't make the wrong
choice.

I am using Windows 98SE.
I can't get the drivers installed. The card is OEM, and the guy at the store
gave me an installation disk which is for Sapphire 9200 Pro, but I notice in
the pdf file on the CD, it refers to Radeon 9800. At any rate, I couldn't
get the drivers to install from that CD. So I went to AtI site and
downloaded Catalyst drivers - latest edition for 9000 series video cards.
I installed those, but they asked for the ATI install CD, which I put in the
drive and it wanted the file4 ati2cqag.dll, which I found and clicked on,
then it put two lines in display in Device manager - one was 9000 series,
next line was 9000 secondary series and the next was the PCI standard video
card which I had to use before to get into my computer.
Oh, and it said to remove old drivers from add/remove software and when I
clicked on Ati display uninstall driver, it said " can't initialize" or
something and when I clicked on it again, it did absolutely nothing.
I am not sure I have events in proper sequences as I've tried so many things
I've forgotten half of them. The 9000 card is still in my computer, but no
drivers have been installed, and the PCI video card is also in my computer
using Standard VGA.

Has anybody got any advice for me before I throw the computer out. I am sooo
frustrated after working two hours on this and got nowhere.

Mary

 

[Mary]

One important thing I left out was - on the pdf file on the install CD, it
said at the top "Radeon 9800" so maybe the CD is for the wrong drivers since
I have a 9000 Pro, but I thought maybe it used the same drivers. Also, I
downloaded new drivers (Catalyst) from ATI site, but they don't seem to work
either. I can't figure out what is wrong.

Mary

 

[JLC]

One important thing I left out was - on the pdf file on the install CD, it
said at the top "Radeon 9800" so maybe the CD is for the wrong drivers since
I have a 9000 Pro, but I thought maybe it used the same drivers. Also, I
downloaded new drivers (Catalyst) from ATI site, but they don't seem to work
either. I can't figure out what is wrong.

Mary

Mary what happened when you tried to install from the CD? Did it get half
way then lock on you or what? If it failed during setup that's the reason
you can't install the ones you DL'ed. Windows gets confused when an install
fails. You don't have to worry about the fact that the file says 9800, what
you need to be sure of is that you are installing the drivers for '98 and
not XP or 2000. Are you sure you got the right ones from ATI? If you do have
the right ones, and it did fail during setup, try this.
Go to add/remove in control panel and look for ATI un-install the drivers.
What you need to remove is the setup inf file that was installed during the
CD install. I'm not sure what it's called (I'm sure someone else knows in
this group) But first, before worrying about the inf file, reboot. Now your
system should load up the default Windows VGA driver.
Now try and install the drivers you got from ATI (now that you're sure that
they are for '98) You should be fine now. If not you're going to have to
find that inf file.
Hope this works for you, JLC

 

[Mary]

Hi JLC: Thank you for answering. I was giving up hope that anyone would
answer and I tried for at least 3 hours tonight to get the card installed
and have given up for now, as I've tried everything I can think of.

Mary what happened when you tried to install from the CD? Did it get half
way then lock on you or what? If it failed during setup that's the reason
you can't install the ones you DL'ed.

Yes, it half installed from the CD. It got past the part about you agreeing
to the licence agreement, and you had to select Express or Customs install,
and I chose Express, and it looked like it installed some drivers, then an
error came up saying "Setup unable to complete installation - set up display
adapter to VGA before setup". I did that, and next time it seemed like the
drivers installed, but when I rebooted, the screen was black - no video at
all. Maddening!

Windows gets confused when an install

fails. You don't have to worry about the fact that the file says 9800, what
you need to be sure of is that you are installing the drivers for '98 and
not XP or 2000.

I looked more closely at the CD and the 9000 Pro pdf file is there All 9000
series cards have pdf files on the CD. But its the drivers that count. I
just noticed, when I click on the file
called "Atisetup.exe" and the full ATI screen comes up - which says Easy
install, express install, and has Online users guide -when I click on users
guide, at the top it says "Radeon 9800 series -users guide". I guess when I
tried to install the Cd earlier, I didn't look at that part. So it looks
like the guy in the store gave me the wrong install CD, or it came to him
that way from wherever he gets it. Its OEM so just the video card and no
box. Also, as I said in my earlier post, the CD he gave me was Sapphire CD
but the guy in the store said they should work with my video card - and if
the drivers are for 9800, thats not much good. It doesn't say on the label
what Radeon model its for.It should so its clear.

Are you sure you got the right ones from ATI?

Yes, I'm pretty sure - http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html - thats where
they have Catalyst drivers for Win ME and Win 98. the file was called
7-981-040127m-013420c.exe. By the way I alwas thought Catalyst was drivers
that were used by people with ATI cards, but were not made by ATI, or is
Catalyst just a new name for graphic drivers by ATI.? But if the drivers I
installed from the CD were the wrong ones, the ones I downloaded might have
made things worse. Another problem is when you install the drivers from ATI
site, at one point it asks for the original ATI install CD that you got with
the card, and if it was the wrong install CD drivers as I now suspect, the
install is not going to work. It was looking for a "cat" file which was not
on the Cd.

I always thought you could install drivers from ATI site without having the
original CD. what happens if you lost the original? So without the correct
install CD, it doesn't look like I can install the drivers from the ATI
website.

Wouldn't all video cards such as 9000 pro, 9200, etc. 9800 all have
different install CD's and different drivers?

you do
have

the right ones, and it did fail during setup, try this.

Go to add/remove in control panel and look for ATI un-install the drivers.

I tried that several times and when I clicked on ATI uninstall display
drivers, it said "error" and wouldn't remove the line. . I clicked on the
same entry later, and it just did nothing at all.
So I don't know what to do about that.

What you need to remove is the setup inf file that was installed during the
CD install. I'm not sure what it's called (I'm sure someone else knows in
this group) But first, before worrying about the inf file, reboot. Now your
system should load up the default Windows VGA driver.

I had to put my old PCI video card back in my computer and disable the
Radeon in Device manager, otherwise, I just got a black screen when I took
the PCI card out. AT least this way, I get 16 colors, instead of none.

Now try and install the drivers you got from ATI (now that you're sure that
they are for '98) You should be fine now. If not you're going to have to
find that inf file.

I don't know if finding the .inf file would help. But yes, the drivers I got
from ATI were for win 98 and also were for 9000 Pro, but it asks for the
original install CD which I don't have, so I guess you can't install the
drivers from ATI site without your original install CD?
I think the guy at the store gave me the wrong installl CD. And worse, was
it was the only 9000 Pro video card in the store, so I don't know what I
will do. I can bet he does not have an install CD for my video card. I just
took his word that the CD he gave me was for the Radeon 9000 Pro.

Hope this works for you, JLC

Thank you so much for your suggestions. I really appreciate you taking the
time.
This whole thing has been a mess for me. Its taken me all night on this.
I've done all my own upgrades on my own computer for 13 years, and never ran
into a mess like this - unless re-formatting, which is the worst.

Mary

 

[JLC]

CD,

Mary I know it all seems so messed up right now. I've sure been there many
times before, but you can get this figured out. From what you told me I'm
right about what is going on. The reason the ATI install is asking for the
CD is because Windows is confused and the inf that is in your windows/inf
folder is telling the install to look for a CD. You do not need a CD to
install the drivers. I suggest you do a Goggle search for a program that
will remove all trace of the ATI drivers. I know there out there, just like
the ones I used for my Nvidia card. You have to start fresh. One little file
can cause you all this problem. I suggest that once you get the driver
remove program you boot in safe mode, that way you can be sure all traces
are removed. The ATI driver that you got from ATI will work on all Radeon
cards. So the guy at the shop did OK with what he gave you. I forgot what
card did you have before this?? Did you make sure that you completely
removed those drivers? You'll get this working. Don't worry. I'm sure that
today, now that your rested you'll get it going in no time JLC

 

[GTX_SlotCar]

I feel bad that I overlooked this post. I usually do when the subject is so
general. If I hadn't seen JLC reply to it, I probably still wouldn't have
read it. Shame on me.
I had the same problem recently where the driver install would stop, I got a
message saying it can't initialize, and then another (I think) saying to try
installing standard drivers first, then reinstall the ATI drivers.The
problem is, I'm using W2000 and there is no driver called Standard VGA as an
available choice (like there is in W98).
I'll give you my 2 cents worth.
Do the things JLC suggested. Uninstall the drivers for your old video card
if you haven't already. Enable your ATI card if it's still disabled. Shut
down. Remove your old card and boot up again. While it's booting, put in
your ATI driver cd if it's not in there already.
After your computer restarts, it should find the ATI card and try to install
it. If not, you'll have to go to Add new Hardware to add it, or Device
Manager and update the drivers. In either case, tell it you "Have Disk", and
point it to your ATI driver cd. It'll either look for a .inf file or a .cat
file. You'll have to try pointing it to different folders on the cd, but
start with one called Win98 if there is one. Eventually you should find the
right one and the driver will load. You may have to do this twice to load
the primary display adapter and the secondary display adapter. The new ATI
cards seem to work this way because of their dual monitor support. My old
8500 doesn't do it this way. Once the drivers have been installed (it only
installs the drivers), you can autorun the cd and install them again with
the control panel and whatever else is on the cd.
That's what worked for me.
There is a Cat. Uninstaller available on the ATI site that removes
everything to do with ATI, but don't use it unless absolutely necessary. It
has a warning message about this when you download it, and it's what caused
me to have problems to begin with. I had no problem uninstalling and
reinstalling drivers until I used Cat. Uninstaller.
Sapphire makes a lot of the "built by ATI" cards, so your driver cd should
work.
Let us know how you make out.

Gary

 

[Mary]

Mary I know it all seems so messed up right now. I've sure been there many
times before, but you can get this figured out. From what you told me I'm
right about what is going on. The reason the ATI install is asking for the
CD is because Windows is confused and the inf that is in your windows/inf
folder is telling the install to look for a CD. You do not need a CD to
install the drivers. I suggest you do a Goggle search for a program that
will remove all trace of the ATI drivers. I know there out there, just like
the ones I used for my Nvidia card.

I went to Safe mode to Add/remove programs and was able to click on "ATI
uninstall utility" which said it took alll ATI software off my computer, but
I still have the same problems as yesterday. Software still won't install
from Cd or the one from ATI site.
Also, no lines for 9000 Radeon show up in Device Manager, though they did
yesterday, but the two lines said Radeon 9000 series. I just wondered,
shouldn't they say Radeon 9000 Pro? I hope they didn't give me a 9000SE.
Nothing on the card itself says what model the card is. Just a white sticker
on the back says its a 9000 Pro Radeon with 128 MB. Is there a utility to
tell you exactly what model video card you have installed? (assuming I ever
get it installed). I am back to my old video card again for now.

You have to start fresh. One little file

can cause you all this problem. I suggest that once you get the driver
remove program you boot in safe mode, that way you can be sure all traces
are removed. The ATI driver that you got from ATI will work on all Radeon
cards. So the guy at the shop did OK with what he gave you.

Even if its a Sapphire installation CD? I wonder if maybe a Sapphire CD
won't work with an ATI brand name card. On the install CD, when the ATI
installation screen comes up for Easy install/Express etc when you click on
"Online manual" it says this is the online manual for Radeon 9800. No
mention about other Radeon models. Its only on the CD itself, that there are
other pdf files for 9000, 9200 , 9600, and so on.
So do you mean that even though this same install CD which seems like its
for 9800, will also install the correct drivers for Radeon 9000 Pro, and
all Radeons from 7000 to 9800?
The drivers I downloaded from ATI site still ask for "ATI installation
disk". Maybe a Sapphire installation disk won't do.

I forgot what

card did you have before this??

I had an ATI Xpert 2000, but I uninstalled the drivers before, then when I
got my new motherboard - Asus 7V8X-X. The Xpert 2000 didnt fit in the AGP
slot, so thats why I got another video card. I had heard the 9000 Pro was a
good card, and it was quite a good price, because its OEM, but now I am not
so sure.
Its been nothing but frustration since yesterday afternoon trying to install
the drivers.

Did you make sure that you completely

removed those drivers? You'll get this working. Don't worry. I'm sure that
today, now that your rested you'll get it going in no time JLC

As far as I know the drivers are supposed to be completely removed. AT
least I used the ATI software uninstall utility in Add/remove programs and
even the utility is not in add/remove programs any more. But maybe there is
something else that is causing the problem. I just don't know what it is. I
might have to end up reformatting my drive, and even then what if the
software doesn't work.
Thanks a lot for your help.

Mary

 

[JLC]

As far as I know the drivers are supposed to be completely removed. AT
least I used the ATI software uninstall utility in Add/remove programs and
even the utility is not in add/remove programs any more. But maybe there is
something else that is causing the problem. I just don't know what it is. I
might have to end up reformatting my drive, and even then what if the
software doesn't work.
Thanks a lot for your help.

Mary

Mary, I'd forget all about that CD OK? You have the right drivers that you
DL'ed from ATI. When you finally get this figured out the install with not
ask for the CD. The CD should have worked. I have a Sapphire 9800Pro and the
CD I have say's Sapphire on it but when I load it it's a pure ATI install
CD. I didn't not use my CD I never do. I always DL'ed the latest drivers for
what ever it is I'm installing.
Tell you what, this is a long shot but try this. Do a word search in your
Windows dir for any files with ATI in them. This way you can find that inf
file I'm talking about. '98 is like this. I've had the same thing happen to
me so many times I lost count with other programs I've installed over the
years. Once a install goes bad. it's hell getting it fixed. Don't give up! I
know that you'll get this fixed and you won't have to do a format. Could be
that the disc is defective. Did you look at it? Its it dirty or scratched
up? Mary stick to the drivers you DL'ed OK? It's a safe bet that you'll get
them to work.
Also one last thing and forgive me if you have said you already did this,
but have you gone to Display Properties/Settings/Advanced/Adapter/and
changed your display
driver to Standard VGA ? then Reboot. This is the way a lot of people change
their drivers. I used to do it also, but with '2000 just removing them with
add/remove works fine. This is one way to make sure you don't have any old
files loaded. Also another idea is to try and install the drivers in safe
mode. I've never had to do this but that would work the same way. You might
what to try that. Also remember one important thing. Every time you try and
install the drivers and it fails you have to make sure and remove all the
files again. Hang in there! JLC

 

[Mary]

is.
Mary, I'd forget all about that CD OK? You have the right drivers that you
DL'ed from ATI. When you finally get this figured out the install with not
ask for the CD. The CD should have worked. I have a Sapphire 9800Pro and the
CD I have say's Sapphire on it but when I load it it's a pure ATI install
CD. I didn't not use my CD I never do. I always DL'ed the latest drivers for
what ever it is I'm installing.

Hi: So it doesn't matter if the CD I have is Sapphire? but just curious - Is
the same Sapphire card that I have used for all 9000 Series video cards?
Just wondered - Are all Sapphire install cards the exact same as ATI install
cards for the same video cards, except they have the Sapphire name on the
install CD?

I still have my old video card in my computer. I haven't done anything more
on the Radeon card today yet.

Tell you what, this is a long shot but try this. Do a word search in your
Windows dir for any files with ATI in them. This way you can find that inf
file I'm talking about. '98 is like this. I've had the same thing happen to
me so many times I lost count with other programs I've installed over the
years.

I just lookled at Windows/inf and there are some ati files in ther but I am
not sure which one you are referring to. A few of them are
ativrvxx.inf,atvttxx.inf, ativxsxx.inf, ati19xwdm.cat, atitunep.inf - and a
few similar ones. Do you think anyof them are what you mean?

Once a install goes bad. it's hell getting it fixed. Don't give up! I

know that you'll get this fixed and you won't have to do a format.

Hell is right. A format is the last straw, but sometimes.... what can you do
but that.
As long as the video card is not defective, maybe I can get it installed, so
I hope its not that.
How can I tell if the video card is 9000 pro? Only a white sticker on the
card says it is.

Could
be

that the disc is defective. Did you look at it? Its it dirty or scratched
up? Mary stick to the drivers you DL'ed OK? It's a safe bet that you'll get
them to work.

The CD looks ok and I checked it with checker.exe which is a good CD
checker.So I think its ok,.

Also one last thing and forgive me if you have said you already did this,
but have you gone to Display Properties/Settings/Advanced/Adapter/and
changed your display
driver to Standard VGA ? then Reboot. This is the way a lot of people change
their drivers.

Yes, its a good idea to do that. I have always done it myself.
Standard VGA line is in Display in Device manager, because that is what I am
using now with my old card, as that would be all it needs. its a pretty old
card, but good thing I kept it as I am able to use it while I sort this
present mess out with the new video card (if I ever do get it solved).

I used to do it also, but with '2000 just removing them
with

add/remove works fine. This is one way to make sure you don't have any old
files loaded. Also another idea is to try and install the drivers in safe
mode. I've never had to do this but that would work the same way. You might
what to try that.

I am not sure if I tried that, but I will try it again. I am going to put
the new card back in again in a little while, but I am getting tired of it
not working. I don't mind challenges,but once I do things over and over, I
get very frustrated and want to give up.

Also remember one important thing. Every time you try
and

install the drivers and it fails you have to make sure and remove all the
files again. Hang in there! JLC

I just click on the ATI uninstall utility which is in add/remove programs.
But your're right, ites easy to forget to do that.
Thanks again.

Mary

 

[Mary]

I feel bad that I overlooked this post. I usually do when the subject is so
general. If I hadn't seen JLC reply to it, I probably still wouldn't have
read it. Shame on me.

Hi Gary:

Come to think of it, my subject line IS very general. I should have given a
little more description in the subject line. You might have thought it was a
troll or some spammer, but I am neither. Just a desperate woman trying to
install a new video card. My motherboard and CPU were new a week ago and so
far they are ok, but the video card is another story. With computers, they
do some funny things. I was very happy when JLC answered my post. I am
always grateful for advice.

I had the same problem recently where the driver install would stop, I got a
message saying it can't initialize, and then another (I think) saying to try
installing standard drivers first, then reinstall the ATI drivers.The
problem is, I'm using W2000 and there is no driver called Standard VGA as an
available choice (like there is in W98).

I've had almost every error message there is in the last couple of days. I
can't even remember all of them. I started to write them down, but after a
couple of dozen, gave up on that -hehe,.

I'll give you my 2 cents worth.
Do the things JLC suggested. Uninstall the drivers for your old video card
if you haven't already. Enable your ATI card if it's still disabled. Shut
down. Remove your old card and boot up again. While it's booting, put in
your ATI driver cd if it's not in there already.

I haven't done anything to day yet, but I will do as you and JLC suggest -
first uninstall the drivers for the new card which I think is already done.
I am already using Standard VGA driver, then take out the old card and put
in the new video card (its not in my computer right now), then shut down.
Then install the drivers from my hard drive which I got from ATI site. I
don't think I will try the install CD. The card is ATI brand, but the
install CD is a Sapphire CD. I would think maybe that CD being Sapphire
might not work on the ATI card exactly, though maybe it does for all I know.

After your computer restarts, it should find the ATI card and try to install
it. If not, you'll have to go to Add new Hardware to add it, or Device
Manager and update the drivers. In either case, tell it you "Have Disk", and
point it to your ATI driver cd.

JLC seems to think I shouldn't bother with the install CD and just try to
install the drivers I got on the ATI site.

It'll either look for a .inf file or a .cat

file. You'll have to try pointing it to different folders on the cd, but
start with one called Win98 if there is one. Eventually you should find the
right one and the driver will load. You may have to do this twice to load
the primary display adapter and the secondary display adapter. The new ATI
cards seem to work this way because of their dual monitor support. My old
8500 doesn't do it this way. Once the drivers have been installed (it only
installs the drivers), you can autorun the cd and install them again with
the control panel and whatever else is on the cd.
That's what worked for me.

I'll have to see if this works. I am not interested in a dual monitor but
someone told me a Radeon 9000 Pro was a good card and I happened to see it
at a good price. But if I am going to have all this trouble.........

There is a Cat. Uninstaller available on the ATI site that removes
everything to do with ATI, but don't use it unless absolutely necessary. It
has a warning message about this when you download it, and it's what caused
me to have problems to begin with. I had no problem uninstalling and
reinstalling drivers until I used Cat. Uninstaller.

I will try other things before I do that. I have enough problems

Sapphire makes a lot of the "built by ATI" cards, so your driver cd should
work.

Sapphire is supposed to make quite good cards I've read. They use ATI
chipsets but make their own cards. I wonder if their install CD's are
identical to ATI install CD's. I think the guy in the store who sold it to
me had the ATI card, but had no ATI install CD's, so gave me the Sapphire
install CD. He said it should work, and maybe he's right, but I am not sure
about that.

Let us know how you make out.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Mary

 

[JLC]

I just lookled at Windows/inf and there are some ati files in ther but I am
not sure which one you are referring to. A few of them are
ativrvxx.inf,atvttxx.inf, ativxsxx.inf, ati19xwdm.cat, atitunep.inf - and a
few similar ones. Do you think anyof them are what you mean?

These very well could be the files that are the problem. I suggest making a
folder and move them to it just in case there something else(I'm new to ATI
so I'm not sure what these are) I've been thinking about this problem all
day, and I have one more thing you can try. It always works for me if I
can't get it some thing to install any other way. Make a folder on your
desktop and move all the inf files out of your windows inf folder, there
might also be a sub folder in the inf folder so you can move those also.
Make sure you just move the contents not the inf folder itself. This way you
know for sure that it's not an inf that is screwing things up. If all goes
well, just move all the inf files back home when your done. As for your
questions about the Sapphire CD I really don't know the answers. I do know
for sure that you can take and toss it in the trash. You have all you need
in the exe you got from ATI. Hope to hear that you're all set JLC

 

[Gordon Scott]

Hi Gary:

Come to think of it, my subject line IS very general. I should have given a
little more description in the subject line. You might have thought it was a
troll or some spammer, but I am neither. Just a desperate woman trying to
install a new video card. My motherboard and CPU were new a week ago and so
far they are ok, but the video card is another story. With computers, they
do some funny things. I was very happy when JLC answered my post. I am
always grateful for advice.


I've had almost every error message there is in the last couple of days. I
can't even remember all of them. I started to write them down, but after a
couple of dozen, gave up on that -hehe,.


I haven't done anything to day yet, but I will do as you and JLC suggest -
first uninstall the drivers for the new card which I think is already done.
I am already using Standard VGA driver, then take out the old card and put
in the new video card (its not in my computer right now), then shut down.
Then install the drivers from my hard drive which I got from ATI site. I
don't think I will try the install CD. The card is ATI brand, but the
install CD is a Sapphire CD. I would think maybe that CD being Sapphire
might not work on the ATI card exactly, though maybe it does for all I know.


JLC seems to think I shouldn't bother with the install CD and just try to
install the drivers I got on the ATI site.

It'll either look for a .inf file or a .cat

I'll have to see if this works. I am not interested in a dual monitor but
someone told me a Radeon 9000 Pro was a good card and I happened to see it
at a good price. But if I am going to have all this trouble.........


I will try other things before I do that. I have enough problems


Sapphire is supposed to make quite good cards I've read. They use ATI
chipsets but make their own cards. I wonder if their install CD's are
identical to ATI install CD's. I think the guy in the store who sold it to
me had the ATI card, but had no ATI install CD's, so gave me the Sapphire
install CD. He said it should work, and maybe he's right, but I am not sure
about that.


Thanks a lot for your help.

Mary

get the driver cleaner
http://www.driverheaven.net/cleaner/

follow the instructions fully, then reinstall.
wow all this hassle and it isnt even an AIW

 

[GTX_SlotCar]

Mary, your card could be a Sapphire. My Sapphire 9800 Pro has no Sapphire
markings on it, only ATI. It's ATI OEM, meant for a computer manufacturer,
but sold in bulk to places like newegg.com as well. So if you bought a new
Gateway computer, for example, and ordered it with a 'Built By ATI' card, it
would be this Sapphire card that is actually installed. The part # is listed
on the ATI site as a Built-By ATI card. When sold in bulk to retailers (or
distributors), it must be marketed as a Sapphire product (of course, since
that's what it is) so they include a driver cd with a Sapphire label.
However, they are not required to change the "built by ATI" label on the
card. As far as I know, ATI still makes some of their own retail cards.
The drivers on your cd should work fine, but it doesn't really matter
whether you use those or the ones you downloaded. I just thought it would be
easier for you to use the ones on the cd.

Since you've been getting a lot of error messages and swapping a lot of
video drivers, you might want to run check disk. In Win98 I think it's under
'tools' when you right-click your C drive. If there is a corrupted file,
nothing else you do will work, so run it before trying anything else.

Gary

 

[Mary]

Hi JLC: Success at last!! - due to your last suggestion about moving all the
Ati .inf files. Thanks a million! I am forever in your debt (well maybe not
forever, but for a few weeks at least . I finally got the drivers
installed late last night and the video card is now working ok. Scroll down
for details.

I and
These very well could be the files that are the problem. I suggest making a
folder and move them to it just in case there something else(I'm new to ATI
so I'm not sure what these are) I've been thinking about this problem all
day, and I have one more thing you can try.

You've spent all day thinking about my drivers? That was nice of you, but I
know what you mean, things bug you when you can't get a satisfactory
solution. I am the same and it drives me nuts when I can't get things fixed
(especially computer stuff). I probably spent about 12 hours total trying to
figure out about these drivers.

It always works for me if I

can't get it some thing to install any other way. Make a folder on your
desktop and move all the inf files out of your windows inf folder, there
might also be a sub folder in the inf folder so you can move those also.
Make sure you just move the contents not the inf folder itself. This way you
know for sure that it's not an inf that is screwing things up. If all goes
well, just move all the inf files back home when your done.

You said from the start you thought my problem was due to old ati .inf files
and you were right.
I did exactly what you suggested above. I went to Windows INF directory and
found about 10 ati .inf files and another few in Windows/INF/OTHER. Two of
these .inf files were "ATI Tech. Enhanced .inf files and when you opened it,
it had about 50 .inf files listed. One of these ATI Tech. Enhanced .inf
files which contain a lot of .inf files, was for ATI Rage 128 (my old video
card .inf files). (I can hear you say ahaa!). I moved them all to a new
folder, and then installed the drivers I got from the ATI site. I didn't
bother with the CD as you said I didn't need it. And this time when I
clicked on the .exe file to install the drivers , instead of the usual
"Please put ATI installation CD in CD rom" which I've seen a hundred times
by now, it seemed to keep going and copying files. I was so pleased for
success at last, I felt like jumping up and down.
And in the Display panel details, it is identified as a 9000 Pro. (I am
always suspicious till I know for sure when it doesn't say on the card
itself).

As you suspected, the problem was the new .inf files went into the same .inf
directory as the old ATI Rage 128 .inf files. I wouldn't have thought that
would cause such a problem. I thought once you installed a new video card
that new .inf files would go in the INF directory and that both could
co-exist without problems. But obviously you can't do that. It shows how
important it is to get rid of old video card files, especially .inf files.

As for your

questions about the Sapphire CD I really don't know the answers. I do know
for sure that you can take and toss it in the trash.

You're right about that! - Actually, it probably would have worked too,
but I thought I would follow your advice and just use the drivers I
downloaded from ATI site.

You have all you need

in the exe you got from ATI.

Thank you so very much for your patience and support. I was ready to give up
and figured I might have to format my drive which is a terrible pain, though
I guess you need to do it once in a while because you get so much junk on
your hard drive.

Hope to hear that you're all set JLC

Well, thanks to you, almost, but there is one other thing, and I don't know
if you will know this or not. When I got the new card installated and tried
out my game "American McGee's Alice" an RPG/adventure type game, the game
won't run. It says there is a problem with Open GL (which I don't know much
about. If you don't know, that is quite all right. You have helped me
enough. I just wondered if you knew or maybe someone else if they are
reading this will know. I will copy and paste below what the error message
was:

...WARNING: could not set the given mode (3)
....shutting down QGL
....unloading OpenGL DLL
....assuming '3dfxvgl' is a standalone driver
....initializing QGL
....WARNING: missing Glide installation, assuming no 3Dfx available
....shutting down QGL
----- CL_Shutdown -----

 

[Mary]

Hi Gary:

Mary, your card could be a Sapphire. My Sapphire 9800 Pro has no Sapphire
markings on it, only ATI. It's ATI OEM, meant for a computer manufacturer,
but sold in bulk to places like newegg.com as well. So if you bought a new
Gateway computer, for example, and ordered it with a 'Built By ATI' card, it
would be this Sapphire card that is actually installed.

Yes, I knew what OEM was, and thats definitely what I bought because their
web page said OEM and its just in a static bag with a CD and you get a year
warranty with the card because its OEM, but thats with the store. If its
retail, you get two years with Ati, so the store guy told me.
I notice that now ATI seems to have "partners" which they list on ATI site,
and Sapphire seems to be the main one and from what I heard is good, though
maybe others are just as good. ATI still make their own cards though and
list them for sale on their site - expensive though. I wouldn't buy one
there. From what I learned , Sapphire makes the cards and ATI makes the
chipsets. I thought Sapphire video cards were pink boards? at least all the
ones I've seen ads for have been like that.

The part # is listed

on the ATI site as a Built-By ATI card.

I have a part number on my card, would I be able to find it on the ATI site
if the card and the chipset were both made by ATI?
Not that it really matters as long as the card works, but just for
curiosity, I wonder how I could find out if I have a Sapphire card?

When sold in bulk to retailers (or

distributors), it must be marketed as a Sapphire product (of course, since
that's what it is) so they include a driver cd with a Sapphire label.
However, they are not required to change the "built by ATI" label on the
card.

It may very well be a Sapphire card. But the card itself is dark green same
as ATI brand cards and same as my previous ATI card. It has a part number
and serial number on the front of the card, and just a white sticker on the
back saying its a 9000 Pro. The guy in the store said it was an ATI card and
they have Sapphire cards in the store, but they are pink cards, so they
stand
out as being different from Sapphire cards. The card I got has an ATI red
sticker on it, but thats just a sticker. The store guy said they are OEM
cards they got in bulk so they don't always get an Ati card, so I presume
all he had was a Sapphire CD but he said that would be ok to install my
card. Do all Radeon cards use the same install CD, no matter which model of
Radeon?

As far as I know, ATI still makes some of their own retail cards.

Yes, they sell Retail ATI video cards in boxes in Staples and Future shop
and Best Buy and other computer stores here (I'm in Toronto,Canada). And in
the store I bought mine, which is a smaller store, but in higher end cards,
they seem to mostly have Retail Sapphire boxes and a couple of lower end
Retail ATI cards (Radeon 7500). As far as I know, ATI used to make all
their own cards and chipsets. Its not long ago that I heard of Sapphire
cards with Ati chipsets.
Asus, Connection and even Gigabyte seem to make ATI video boards now.

The drivers on your cd should work fine, but it doesn't really matter
whether you use those or the ones you downloaded. I just thought it would be
easier for you to use the ones on the cd.

Well, as I mentioned in my message I just posted to JLC, I finally got the
problem solved. He thought from the start it was an old drivers problem and
it was. I never realized how important it was to delete old drivers. I
thought all of them were already deleted when I took my ATI Rage 128 card
out. I just used the drivers I got from the ATI site, but maybe the CD would
have worked just as well when I got rid of the old cards drivers.

Since you've been getting a lot of error messages and swapping a lot of
video drivers, you might want to run check disk. In Win98 I think it's under
'tools' when you right-click your C drive. If there is a corrupted file,
nothing else you do will work, so run it before trying anything else.

Do you mean Scandisk? I usually run it from start/programs, but comes to the
same thing - whatever you get used to. I sometimes go the long way about
things only because I am so used to it. So Yes, I have been running Scandisk
all along for the reasons you mention above. Its very important and I use it
frequently.

Now that I have my card going ok (so far). (I am skeptical about new parts
till they have proven themselves to me) I can't get my American McGee's
Alice game to run , though it ran fine with my ATI Xpert 2000. I copied and
pasted my problem in my message to JLC - it seems to do with Open GL which I
know nothing about. I notice in the video card settings that you can put a
dot either in 3D or one in Open GL, but not both, but I have no idea where
you would put the dot.

Thanks for the information Gary. It would be interesting to know if I have a
Sapphire card or brand ATI card.

Mary

 

[Mary]

Hi Gordon:

get the driver cleaner
http://www.driverheaven.net/cleaner/

My problem has been solved, but thank you for the URL above. I will bookmark
it. Sounds like a very handy utility.

follow the instructions fully, then reinstall.
wow all this hassle and it isnt even an AIW

Haha. Good one

Mary

 

[JLC]

Hi JLC: Success at last!! - due to your last suggestion about moving all the
Ati .inf files. Thanks a million! I am forever in your debt (well maybe not
forever, but for a few weeks at least . I finally got the drivers
installed late last night and the video card is now working ok. Scroll down
for details.

Hi Mary! I'm so glad that it worked! I discovered the inf trick a long time
ago. I was tring to install something (I don't remember what it was) and the
install failed. I spend days pulling my hair out. Then it came to me. Just
move EVERYTHING out of the inf folder! It works every time! Install programs
use inf files to tell them what to do. If they get messed up Windows goes
into cardio arrest. As for "Alice" (I love that game BTW) I suggest you
uninstall it(back up your saved game) and them re install it to a new dir
just to make sure. That way if there's some old reg code left over,
installing to a different dir will take care of it. The error message is
very strange because it's referring to a Voodoo card. Did you ever have a
Voodoo card in your current system? Weird. Do you have any other OpenGL
games? If not DL'ed DroneZmark
http://tinyurl.com/2xbkr it's a OpenGL benchmark program. If it runs then
you know your drivers are OK. Enjoy your new card Mary! After all this you
better JLC

 

[Mary]

Hi JLC:

Hi Mary! I'm so glad that it worked! I discovered the inf trick a long time
ago. I was tring to install something (I don't remember what it was) and the
install failed. I spend days pulling my hair out.

I think my hair is all pulled out too. I'm going bald.

Then it came to me. Just

move EVERYTHING out of the inf folder! It works every time! Install programs
use inf files to tell them what to do. If they get messed up Windows goes
into cardio arrest.

Yeah, I noticed. I'd still be stuck if you didn't tell me about the inf
files.
If you hadn't mentioned it, I can honestly say I would never have thought of
moving those inf files and would have had to reformat and hope for the best.
The drivers got installed, but I seem to have different problems now with
Alice and "Undying" - there were a two pack. I normally don't play action
type games, but the pack was cheap and at first I hated Alice and figured
why did I bother getting this game. I got better at it as time went by and
eventually found it quite challenging. The game seems to be mostly jumping
if you ask me. I usually play games like Gabriel Knight, KQ series, Broken
sword, and loved Syberia and waiting for Syberia 2 to come out in April. But
once in a while, I play an action game. Realms of the Haunting is the
action/adventure type game I like the best.

As for "Alice" (I love that game BTW) I suggest you

uninstall it(back up your saved game) and them re install it to a new dir
just to make sure. That way if there's some old reg code left over,
installing to a different dir will take care of it.

I uninstalled Alice - at least the uninstall wouldn't work, so I had to
manuallly uninstall it through Explorer which I use for everything. I took
out the saved games and reinstalled the game but got the same error
message -grrrr. I think I have a problem with Direct X 9.0 which got
installed when installing the video drivers. When I tried DirectX, it says
that Direct Draw and Direct play don't don't work, or whatever it says. I
downloaded the latest Catalyst drivers (4.2 I think) for the video card, so
I don't know why I have this problem. It does say on the ATI website that if
you have a dual monitor video card like mine, that there can be problems
with games running Quake 2 or 3 engine and Alice runs Quake engine. It only
says to disable Secondary monitor which I did, but that didn't solve the
problem.
See this:

http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/3235.html

The error message is

very strange because it's referring to a Voodoo card. Did you ever have a
Voodoo card in your current system? Weird.

Do you mean 3dfx?
I am not sure that means a Voodoo card. Here is the full error message
below. I only quoted some of it before. Maybe you or someone else will know
what it means.

----------------------
Config: config.cfg
execing default.cfg
couldn't exec menu.cfg
execing config.cfg
couldn't exec localized.cfg
couldn't exec autoexec.cfg
....detecting CPU, found AMD w/ 3DNow!

------- Input Initialization -------
Initializing DirectInput...
Couldn't set DI coop level
Falling back to Win32 mouse support...
Joystick is not active.
------------------------------------
----- Client Initialization -----
----- Initializing Renderer ----
----- R_Init -----
Initializing OpenGL subsystem
....initializing QGL
....calling LoadLibrary( 'C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\opengl32.dll' ): succeeded
....setting mode 3: 640 480 FS
....using colorsbits of 16
....calling CDS: ok
....registered window class
....created window@0,0 (640x480)
Initializing OpenGL driver
....getting DC: succeeded
....GLW_ChoosePFD( 16, 16, 0 )
....23 PFDs found
....GLW_ChoosePFD failed
....failed to find an appropriate PIXELFORMAT
....restoring display settings
....WARNING: could not set the given mode (3)
....shutting down QGL
....unloading OpenGL DLL
....assuming '3dfxvgl' is a standalone driver
....initializing QGL
....WARNING: missing Glide installation, assuming no 3Dfx available
....shutting down QGL
----- CL_Shutdown -----
-----------------------
GLW_StartOpenGL() - could not load OpenGL subsystem

Do you have any other OpenGL

games? If not DL'ed DroneZmark
http://tinyurl.com/2xbkr it's a OpenGL benchmark program. If it runs then
you know your drivers are OK. Enjoy your new card Mary! After all this you
better JLC

I don't think my Open Gl driver is ok, but I will maybe find out when I
download the file you mention above.

You will probably be glad to get rid of me - LOL.
I have that Undying game but I had only started it before when my
motherboard conked out. Other than that, I'm not sure I have any other Open
GL games.
I think I have a problem with DirectX 9.0. So one thing solved and another
problem pending.
I was about half way through Alice and took me ages to get that far and it
ran fine on my ATI Xpert 2000.

Mary

 

[JLC]

Hi JLC:
You will probably be glad to get rid of me - LOL.
I have that Undying game but I had only started it before when my
motherboard conked out. Other than that, I'm not sure I have any other Open
GL games.
I think I have a problem with DirectX 9.0. So one thing solved and another
problem pending.
I was about half way through Alice and took me ages to get that far and it
ran fine on my ATI Xpert 2000.

You should go to Microsoft and DL DX9. It's always a good idea to reinstall
DX after a driver change just to be sure all is installed right. Your new
card is a DX9 card. It was made to take advantage of all that DX9 has to
offer. And yes 3DFx are the guys that made the Voodoo cards. You do know
that by just removing a program and it's folder you're not really un
installing it right? There's a lot of info for that game sitting in your
registry, and that is what can cause major problem. Did you install it into
a different dir? That's why I mentioned it. If you leave all that stuff in
the reg, installing to a new dir will cause the game to write the info to
the reg again. It's hard to explain, but it is important. There's utilities
that you can get that will clean up your reg, but they're not 100% all the
time. Maybe someelse might have some idea's about what's going on with
"Alice" JLC

 

[Mary]

You should go to Microsoft and DL DX9. It's always a good idea to reinstall
DX after a driver change just to be sure all is installed right. Your new
card is a DX9 card. It was made to take advantage of all that DX9 has to
offer. And yes 3DFx are the guys that made the Voodoo cards. You do know
that by just removing a program and it's folder you're not really un
installing it right? There's a lot of info for that game sitting in your
registry, and that is what can cause major problem. Did you install it into
a different dir? That's why I mentioned it. If you leave all that stuff in
the reg, installing to a new dir will cause the game to write the info to
the reg again. It's hard to explain, but it is important. There's utilities
that you can get that will clean up your reg, but they're not 100% all the
time. Maybe someelse might have some idea's about what's going on with
"Alice" JLC

I saw your message in the game action NG. I never expected to find you there
too. A friend told me to post a message there since thats a game group and I
didn't want to keep bugging you. Once in a while, I post post under Gary -
long story. So I wasn't sure what I should do, if I should reply to your
message there and confuse everybody else there who have replied to my
message. So I typed a reply on the action NG, then cancelled it, but I think
it was too late - haha. Now you've confused me -LOL.

Mary