S
Susan Bugher
repost (apolgies if it's a duplication)
Susan said:
S
Susan Bugher
Semolina said:
I wonder if my earlier reply got lost.
I suggested removing part 2 of the definition. That's the new part and
that's where the problem lies.
Adware:
1. software that displays advertising for other products and/or services
(often downloaded from the internet by the software).
2. software that places advertisements on the end product (photos, web
pages, PDF files etc.).
Susan
R
REM
Sounds plenty reasonable.
It is amazing how authors have found so many ways and variations of
creating software that defy even the most general of labels.
If it is a freeware that ONLY advertises itself, I see nothing wrong
with that. It is freeware and that's the main thing. Making more
people aware of itself is cool.
I'm sure we all would rather that no software ever advertise anthing.
I'm sure that when identified, the best programs will be recommended
over programs that do have a hitch, such as "self-promoting" software.
We live in a real world though, and must face the realities of it
somehow. The self-promoting freeware might be setting itself up to go
commercial, or not. Only time will tell that. I'm not sure it is even
possible to list only the pure freeware. I know of many programs that
would make it, but there are so many others that lean over the line it
would be impossible for a large group of people to agree on everything
concerning categorizing each program. That is, we can probably agree
on what is probably, but never on what isn't.
In the end each of us determines the exactness of "freeware" in our
own way. Free Agent works wonderfully for my needs. I'm sure it could
work for others, if they select groups before it times out and, like
me, are not going to want other groups in the future. I still would
not recommend it as a freeware news reader to the general public
though. For me, it cost the time of a download and an install,
freeware, for my personal requirements, and it is the best darned
program out there for what I want to do.
B
Bjorn Simonsen
Susan Bugher wrote in said:
First thought: How about if we change "other" to "shareware/payware":
Adware: software that displays advertising for shareware/
payware products and/or services (often downloaded from the
internet by the software).
RE freeware that can bee seen as promoting it self or other freeware
via logo or signatur/url or otherwise(?) -> can be labeled "nagware"
*if* the group regard such items too intrusive in any particular case.
??
All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen
R
REM
Nice question!
I'd rather not have any advertising, especially for other programs.
Self-promotion and all out advertising are different. All out
advertising should not be in freeware.
S
Susan Bugher
Bjorn said:
I agree. I think we should remove the new language from the Adware
definition.
Susan
B
Bjorn Simonsen
Bjorn Simonsen wrote in said:
Or maybe not "nagware" if we follow the current def. ? :
Nagware: has a popup (nag) screen, asking you to purchase the
software. You must press a button to get past the nag screen.
All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen
S
Susan Bugher
Bjorn said:
"Other" = someone else's products. Showing advertising for your own
software to the program user does not make a program Adware.
I think we can improve the wording. ISTM we should fix the immediate
problem now and consider improvements later.
IMO if Nagware is *always* bad it's better not to deal with gray areas
in the definition. That's the approach we've used so far in the Nagware
definition.
Splash screens and most forms of self-promotion aimed at the program
user are not mentioned. The only thing that's mentioned is behavior that
newsgroup participants have defined as *always* objectionable.
Nagware: has a popup (nag) screen, asking you to purchase the software.
You must press a button to get past the nag screen.
Susan Bugher
S
Susan Bugher
Bjorn said:
Right, it's *not* Nagware according to our present definition. Each
program's logo, splash sceen etc. etc. etc. is judged individually.
Susan
B
Bjorn Simonsen
Susan Bugher wrote in said:
Agree. Sometimes hard to resist adding "improvements"
,Saving those for later.
All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen
R
Roger Johansson
Susan Bugher said:
That is only one type of nagware, there are many other types.
Time delays in start or exit, or in using some functions, popup boxes,
splash screens, etc..
I suggest this definition.
Nagware: Has some nagging feature which hinder the use of the program in
some way, and nags the user, to encourage users to pay for a version of
the program which does not have the nagging features.
The nagging can be very disturbing in some programs and very discreet in
other programs.
S
Semolina Pilchard
No, no. It didn't get lost. I just tend to witter on a bit
sometimes.
Maybe. So far as part two of the definition is concerned, it's what
"advertisement" means that is the sticking-point, surely. If the
program adds "created by X" where X is a freeware program, then that's
only self-promotion, not advertisement, if advertisement is taken as
encouragement to buy something.
If, OTOH, the freeware program adds a tag that is intended as an
inducement to buy either a fuller version or something else, it's an
adware program, I'd say.
To my mind the heart of the matter isn't whether the message is
displayed on screen or on other output such as paper, it's what the
message says.
S
Susan Bugher
REM said:Sounds plenty reasonable.
It is amazing how authors have found so many ways and variations of
creating software that defy even the most general of labels.
I agree that there are a lot of things that are hard to categorize as
always good or always bad. Some splash screens can be turned off - you
never have to see them. Some splash screens are more obnoxious than
*any* nag screen ever thought of being. (I'm thinking of splash screens
that are displayed for ever-lengthening periods of time - the longer you
use the app the worse it gets.)
Some web pages and EULAs seem to be designed to confuse rather than
enlighten. . . . Is it Freeware or Trialware or ???
aaarrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhh!
Yup. "Free enough for me" is the final criteria for an individual.
ISTM that the Pricelessware List is for apps that almost everyone thinks
are "free enough for me".
IMO our PL rules and ACF definitions need to be written with that as the
goal. IOW - not too strict - not too loose.
Susan
R
Roger Johansson
Another possible definition of Nagware:
Nagware is software which interrupts the user in his work and draws the
attention of the user to the fact that he is using a version of the
program which has not been paid. There are many ways to achieve this,
messages with delays, popup boxes you have to click to get rid of, splash
screens, information about the payware version shown in different
situations in the program, etc..
Nagware is software which interrupts the user in his work and draws the
attention of the user to the fact that he is using a version of the
program which has not been paid. There are many ways to achieve this,
messages with delays, popup boxes you have to click to get rid of, splash
screens, information about the payware version shown in different
situations in the program, etc..
S
Susan Bugher
Real life has intruded. I will finish the vote tally and post the results.
After that I will not be able to participate in the newsgroup for a
period of at least several days, perhaps longer.
Susan
After that I will not be able to participate in the newsgroup for a
period of at least several days, perhaps longer.
Susan
J
John Fitzsimons
< snip >
Unlikely to happen. You could change things to ;
Adware: software that displays advertising for other (payware)
products and/or....
though.
Regards, John.
J
John Fitzsimons
IF people see nothing wrong with that then maybe they need to be
marked "self promoting adware" ?
I don't know that I would want such programs on the PL list at all BUT
I would have less of a problem with them being recommended in the
newsgroup. As long as they didn't "phone home" and were correctly
labeled.
My preference however is of course "pure" freeware in both places.
Regards, John.
J
John Fitzsimons
On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 20:47:57 -0500, Susan Bugher
That would be my preference. You could also have a "Self promoting
adware" type BUT..... I wouldn't bother.
Regards, John.
That would be my preference. You could also have a "Self promoting
adware" type BUT..... I wouldn't bother.
Regards, John.
J
jo
REM said:
Hmmm... how about a screensaver app that cycles through a folder of
jpg's and every fifth image puts up its own saying 'created by whoever'?
J
jo
Susan said:
Don't make it proper 'freeware' though. ('criterion' btw)
I think that could be the thin end of a wedge that could let all sorts
of rubbish through in the longer term.
Opera, ICQ, recent FA builds should never be let through the net...
I go for strict definitions and then liberal interpretations where
needed.
Keeps life simple. Rigid rules are ok; rigid interpretation of rigid
rules is boring.