PC industry will die because of Rambus win

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ar Q
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As long as the submarines are allowed to err, stay, this will never be
over... and there seems little likelyhood that the USPTO is going to clean
it up.

"Submarines" have largely been dry-docked since the USPTO went from
17-years from issue to 20-years from file. Since it takes 2-3 years for
the process, submarines are largely irrelevant. ...not to mention the
early publication which I admit that I don't fully understand.

Before you get your dander up yes, RMBS was a Doernitz.
 
So what are you trying to argue? That Ar Q's post is correct because
Horowitz was "the co-founder" not "the founder". HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Your semantic twisting of facts is BS just like in the Hynix
infringement case where Hynix argued its DLL was different from a
Rambus DLL because it had a "selectable" rather than "variable" delay.
Of course the jury saw through this BS and it had nothing to do with
Hynix being a foreign company in California court.
 
Here is the Initial Decision
http://www.ftc.gov/os/adjpro/d9302/040223initialdecision.pdf (Warning
19Megabytes). The testimony was discredited by the ALJ because
contemporaneous documents did not support the testimony. Also Gordon
Kelley was shown to have a conflict of interest. Some excerpts below.

756. There was conficting testimony regarding what should trigger
disclosure. For
example IC 42. 3 Chair and IBM representative Gordon Kelley testified
that disclosure was
triggered by a patent claim that "reads on or applies" to the standard,
meaning that "if you
exercise the design or production of the component that was being
standardized (it) would require
use of the patent. " (G. Kelley, Tr. 2706-07).
757. Another IBM JEDEC representative, Mark Kellogg, testified that his
understanding
was that "you have to disclose intellectual property that reads on the
standard. " (Kellogg,
Tr. 5311). Kellogg also stated that " (s)ometimes we disclose
intellectual property that doesn
(read on the standard) and one would question why. It adds confsion."
(Kellogg, Tr. 5311).

769. The contemporaneous correspondence also shows that disclosure was
voluntary.
(RX 669 at 3 (EIA, on behalf of JEDEC, told the FTC in a January 22,
1996 letter that it
encourage(s) the early, voluntary disclosure of patents that relate to
the standards in work."
RX 742 at 1 (statement in JEDEC Secretary s 7/10/96 memorandum to JEDEC
Council members
that the EIA "encourage(s) early voluntary disclosure of any known
essential patents ); RX 1585
at 1 (statement in JEDEC Secretary s 2/11/00 email that " (d)isclosure
of patents is a very big
issue for Commttee members and cannot be required of members at
meetings
770. Moreover, there is no evidence that any JEDEC member objected when
Gordon
Kelley of IBM and Hans Wiggers of Hewlett-Packard announced at JEDEC
meetings that they
would not be disclosing any intellectual property tfom their companies.
(JX 15 at 6; RX 420 at 2;
JX 18 at 8; Wiggers, Tr. 10592-94; see supra F. 691-700).

824. The chairman of the meeting, Gordon Kelley, testified that prior
to the May 1992
meeting Crisp had spoken to him about the possibility of Ram bus
scheduling a presentation
concerning DRA design. (G. Kelley, Tr. 2553). G. Kelley also testified
that he had refused to
allow Rambus to present its technology for standardization at JEDEC on
this and another
occasion, even though he had never barred any other member company tfom
presenting its
technology. (G. Kelley, Tr. 2649-58).
825. G. Kelley had a clear confict of interest; he made and enforced
his unilateral
decision to bar Rambus tfom presenting its technology two weeks after
he wrote in an internal
company document that his company s interests were threatened by the
Rambus technology and
were best served ifRambus "fails to become standard." (R 279 at 7). He
did not disclose this
confict to Crisp or to anyone else. (G. Kelley, Tr. 2656-57).
 
"Submarines" have largely been dry-docked since the USPTO went from
17-years from issue to 20-years from file. Since it takes 2-3 years for
the process, submarines are largely irrelevant. ...not to mention the
early publication which I admit that I don't fully understand.

Really? I distinctly recall, back in the RMBS patent err, debates, that
the USPTO had moved into flashy new luxury premises, had job openings up
the wazoo for legal/technical staff and was promising "improved &
expeditious" handling of examination... with, ISTR, a targeted turn-around
of 6 months.
Before you get your dander up yes, RMBS was a Doernitz.

Ô_ô.................ô_Ô I see no dander here.:-)
 
fammacd=! said:

Really. It's usually about two years from file to first office
action.
I distinctly recall, back in the RMBS patent err, debates, that
the USPTO had moved into flashy new luxury premises, had job openings up
the wazoo for legal/technical staff and was promising "improved &
expeditious" handling of examination... with, ISTR, a targeted turn-around
of 6 months.

GIve 0 take 18. ;-)
Ô_ô.................ô_Ô I see no dander here.:-)

;-)
 
"Del Cecchi said:
message
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:25:19 -0500, "Del Cecchi"



news:[email protected]...

Why? Perhaps you'd have a different view if you'd met John Corse [damn
I

SHAME ON YOU!!!
said it!... sorry everybody but necessary here I think] and other
pseudonyms here. If you think that Rambus is not tainted goods I
believe

--
Rgds, George Macdonald

I believe the relevant part of my post is (starting with your
statement....) ">>> Rambus will never find friends in the sector, if not
the entire

business
world again. It could find partners, but only from the very few
companies
which also have monopoly ambition, like IBM.

[to Ar Q]How about their err, partnership with AMD?;-)


I believe you are full of excrement as well as misguided about IBM and
Rambus."

which was not sufficiently clear apparently. Perhaps I should have put
parenthesis around (IBM and Rambus). You know nothing about the
relationship, yet you describe it at being "partners" due to IBM
allegedly having monopoly ambition and implying that IBM has no better
ethics than rambus.

At the very least this is jumping to conclusions on the basis of no data
about IBM's motives, intentions, or actions.

The real situation is, those who know, aren't talking. I had thought it
might be safe to finally fess up, but now I'm not so sure. On the good
side, I got rid of ALL of my Rambus materials YEARS ago, except the
RambusD technical manual, as a "design souvenier." It's now old enough
to be techically interesting, but no longer significant. Actually, the
design data may still be laying around on disk, somewhere. I never got
around to cleaning it out, and the design data in the toolset used for
that design was awfully dense, so the storage is a nit compared to
current designs.

I never knew much about the contract, and remember even less, but I know
a that a heck of a lot is erroneously presented here, as well as having
had friends sitting on the JEDEC committees during the whole timeframe.

Again, I thought this was water under the bridge, but apparently it
isn't, so now I'll shut up. You'll never get real facts, here or on
investment boards. We need an equivalent of Godwin's Law here.

DEP (sits 1 floor down from KRW)

The contract or whatever it was between IBM and Rambus was recent, and
there was a recent press release. That is what initially led to this
mess, I believe. But your point about erroneous stuff and that those
who know aren't talking is sure correct.
I know nothing of any recent contract. Everything I know about Rambus is
aproaching 10 years old, now. I can readily believe that something new
is happening, given the Cell deal and Sony's past dealings with Rambus.
In that light, it would be useful IP to have in a library.

Dale
 
message On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:25:19 -0500, "Del Cecchi"



news:[email protected]...
Why? Perhaps you'd have a different view if you'd met John Corse [damn
I SHAME ON YOU!!!
said it!... sorry everybody but necessary here I think] and other
pseudonyms here. If you think that Rambus is not tainted goods I
believe
--
Rgds, George Macdonald

I believe the relevant part of my post is (starting with your
statement....) ">>> Rambus will never find friends in the sector, if not
the entire
business
world again. It could find partners, but only from the very few
companies
which also have monopoly ambition, like IBM.

[to Ar Q]How about their err, partnership with AMD?;-)

I believe you are full of excrement as well as misguided about IBM and
Rambus."

which was not sufficiently clear apparently. Perhaps I should have put
parenthesis around (IBM and Rambus). You know nothing about the
relationship, yet you describe it at being "partners" due to IBM
allegedly having monopoly ambition and implying that IBM has no better
ethics than rambus.

At the very least this is jumping to conclusions on the basis of no data
about IBM's motives, intentions, or actions.

Hi Dale(?):-)

Please note that the above statements attributed to me are completely
erroneous - I never said any such thing. Del got his posting IDs confused
and apparently fired from the hip.
The real situation is, those who know, aren't talking. I had thought it
might be safe to finally fess up, but now I'm not so sure. On the good
side, I got rid of ALL of my Rambus materials YEARS ago, except the
RambusD technical manual, as a "design souvenier." It's now old enough
to be techically interesting, but no longer significant. Actually, the
design data may still be laying around on disk, somewhere. I never got
around to cleaning it out, and the design data in the toolset used for
that design was awfully dense, so the storage is a nit compared to
current designs.

I never knew much about the contract, and remember even less, but I know
a that a heck of a lot is erroneously presented here, as well as having
had friends sitting on the JEDEC committees during the whole timeframe.

Hmm, are you saying that there were JEDEC delegates who agreed with (all)?
RAMBUS' claims? IIRC there *was* someone from IBM who testified and seemed
firmly on the JEDEC side during the FTC anti-trust case - no?
That's not what I said, at all. I won't say any more about that here.
But I will say that I haven't spoken to Gordon Kelley or Mark Kellogg
in years, but back in that timeframe I counted them both as friends.
Both have moved on, at least partly to get away from the Rambus crap.
Mark is retired, I don't know what happened to Gordon.

The timsullivan quotes are "highly selective"
As long as the submarines are allowed to err, stay, this will never be
over... and there seems little likelyhood that the USPTO is going to clean
it up.
The real problem isn't submarines.
The real problem is "obvious to one skilled in the art."
Rambus has some truly excellent IP. That's not what's in question, here.

Dale
 
message On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:25:19 -0500, "Del Cecchi"



<snip>

Why? Perhaps you'd have a different view if you'd met John Corse [damn
I
SHAME ON YOU!!!
said it!... sorry everybody but necessary here I think] and other
pseudonyms here. If you think that Rambus is not tainted goods I
believe
<snip>
--
Rgds, George Macdonald

I believe the relevant part of my post is (starting with your
statement....) ">>> Rambus will never find friends in the sector, if not
the entire
business
world again. It could find partners, but only from the very few
companies
which also have monopoly ambition, like IBM.

[to Ar Q]How about their err, partnership with AMD?;-)

I believe you are full of excrement as well as misguided about IBM and
Rambus."

which was not sufficiently clear apparently. Perhaps I should have put
parenthesis around (IBM and Rambus). You know nothing about the
relationship, yet you describe it at being "partners" due to IBM
allegedly having monopoly ambition and implying that IBM has no better
ethics than rambus.

At the very least this is jumping to conclusions on the basis of no data
about IBM's motives, intentions, or actions.

Hi Dale(?):-)

Please note that the above statements attributed to me are completely
erroneous - I never said any such thing. Del got his posting IDs confused
and apparently fired from the hip.
The real situation is, those who know, aren't talking. I had thought it
might be safe to finally fess up, but now I'm not so sure. On the good
side, I got rid of ALL of my Rambus materials YEARS ago, except the
RambusD technical manual, as a "design souvenier." It's now old enough
to be techically interesting, but no longer significant. Actually, the
design data may still be laying around on disk, somewhere. I never got
around to cleaning it out, and the design data in the toolset used for
that design was awfully dense, so the storage is a nit compared to
current designs.

I never knew much about the contract, and remember even less, but I know
a that a heck of a lot is erroneously presented here, as well as having
had friends sitting on the JEDEC committees during the whole timeframe.

Hmm, are you saying that there were JEDEC delegates who agreed with (all)?
RAMBUS' claims? IIRC there *was* someone from IBM who testified and seemed
firmly on the JEDEC side during the FTC anti-trust case - no?
That's not what I said, at all. I won't say any more about that here.
But I will say that I haven't spoken to Gordon Kelley or Mark Kellogg
in years, but back in that timeframe I counted them both as friends.
Both have moved on, at least partly to get away from the Rambus crap.
Mark is retired, I don't know what happened to Gordon.

Ok - sorry I didn't mean to "draw you out" - just wasn't sure where you
were coming from.
The timsullivan quotes are "highly selective"

I don't think anybody here pays much attention to the obvious RMBS
mosquitoes.:-)
 
Professor Mark A. Horowitz's early work on high-speed, low-power CMOS data
link interfaces ultimately led to applications of high-performance memory
access. You may say he laid out the foundations of RAMBUS, but calling him
the founder of Rambus is absurb. He works for Standford University, not
RAMBUS.
Rambus may indeed be guilty of all of the IP Evil they're accused. Make
no doubt about that.

But by the same token, they have also done some very good technical, and
that is beyond the same shadow of doubt.

They are deserving of both criticism and praise. Makes me think that
there are 2 groups of people in the company - engineers and lawyers.
And whenever we see those 2 groups together, we all know who is in
charge, and makes the business plans and strategies.

Dale
 
Rambus may indeed be guilty of all of the IP Evil they're accused. Make
no doubt about that.

But by the same token, they have also done some very good technical, and
that is beyond the same shadow of doubt.

Apparently enough so that AMD decided to "pay the piper".:-)
They are deserving of both criticism and praise. Makes me think that
there are 2 groups of people in the company - engineers and lawyers.
And whenever we see those 2 groups together, we all know who is in
charge, and makes the business plans and strategies.

I have nothing specific related to Rambus but I've seen enough of how many
"academics" operate to feel "uncomfortable" with the canvassing, soliciting
of grants left right and center and then the filing of patents as
quasi/pseudo-business operators. I wonder: do the err, Regents of Stanford
have no claim on *anything* of Rambus IP? I have to think the original
research was sponsored by umm, somebody.... somewhere?
 
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