Partitioning a 2tb hd for Windows 7 64 bit

[Rod Speed]

If they know what a partition is, thay can do any of my suggestions.

But cant be relied on to do that correctly, and when they try to get
warranty support on that system, the phone droid will have a hell of
a problem trying to work out if they have just stuffed up the system
or whether it does have a fault that they are liable for fixing etc.

And, not if they are going to backup anything large. The
system and programs are not "Large", but rather small. It's
all the data people collect these days that is "Large".

That’s not true for the simpler users. They have ****
all data that isnt replaceable. Most don’t even do their
email on their system, they mostly use webmail now.

Example: My system backed up is about 20GB. (this includes the
"user" directory) I have over 1300GB of other "data" on my computer.

There arent that many of the simpler users that have anything like
that much data except media files that are replaceable anyway.

This is VERY small compared to others I know.

But isnt for the sort of user that has to ask about how to partition their
drive.

There isn't a "correct" answer. Any will "work"!

Some of them wont work properly, particularly with
the ones that purport to tell them how to ensure that
there is no data at all on the OS and apps partition.

Or are you saying that moving your
data will not allow a system restore?

No, I am saying that they can get into a situation where
they need to do a system restore, and the system is not
usable enough to allow them to ask about how to get out
of the mess they are in and to be told to use a system restore.

Let alone whether its even possible for someone
to tell them how to get into the mess they are in.

In what way. If they can find the place to ask, they aren't stupid.

Yes, but if for example someone proclaims that its absolutely
essential to have 3 partitions, one for the OS, one for the apps,
and one for all data, they wont necessarily be able to recognise
that there is no point in that approach over just an OS and apps
partition and a data partition, and if some clown tells them to
must move the apps around manually, and the system is then
unusable, they wont necessarily be able to get it back into a
usable situation again. And if they werent told to image the
entire physical drive before they attempted that 3 partition
config, they may well not be able to get it back into a usable
config again when they discover that it isnt usable because
they were told to move the apps by just copying them to the
apps partition.

NONE of the things I suggested are "HARD",

Some of them are for the sort of user that has to
ask about how the only drive should be partitioned.

every single thing I've suggested for others (not what I've done
myself), can be done right from the desktop, or during setup.

By those who know what they are doing. By definition
plenty of those who have to ask about how to partition
the only drive in the system don’t necessarily know that
you cant just copy apps around manually and expect
everything to work properly once you have done that.

What is hard about moving the "Documents" folder?

The difficulty is with ensuring that all the apps always
put their data in there once you have moved it.

I guess I don't know computers well enought
to understand the hard part of it.

Your problem is you don’t understand what the
sort of user that has to ask about how to partition
their only drive is capable of doing reliably.

BTW, I'm beginning to wonder if you even use 7,

Corse I do and even you should be able to work that out from my headers.

as there is no "My Documents" anymore!

Just a typo.

But moving the "Documents" data is!

Nope, not with ensuring that all the apps put
all their data in the moved Documents folder.

You should not move the "user" folder at all, on a "normal" system,
as too many setting that are needed to boot are storied there!

And so, if some clown tells them to move that, they may
well not realise that they shouldn’t do that, and end up
with a system that wont boot, and if it’s the only system
they have, they cant even ask how to fix that mess.

Part of the items you've listed ARE stored in the "user" folder!

Some is, some isnt.

Do you know anything about Windows 7 at all???

Yep, been using it for longer than you have thanks.

(only one of the "temp" folders isn't,

Its more complicated than that.

and it doesn't need to be backuped up)

Irrelevant to the question of getting all the data out
of the OS and apps partition to minimise the size of it.

Which is why I said what I said below. YOU cut that message in 1/2.

Nope, in 3/4 and 1/4 actually.

I just said it wasn't that hard to do.

It is for for the sort of simple user that has to ask
about whether to partition their only hard drive.

And yes, I even know what it means
if I ever have to restore my system.

And the sort of simple user that has to ask about
whether to partition their only hard drive doesn’t.

And neither will plenty asked for advice about how to
restore their system later when things go pear shaped either.

I never said "no data"!!!

No one ever said you did. Others did tho with that
2 partition config like the individual whose post I
commented on, and you commented on my comments.

I said data like music, pics, and video.
Moving the ones I listed is about 10 mouse clicks.
Nothing else adds up to much.

Varys with what the user does with the system.

A good example is:
Last time I looked, my Firefox folder was the largest folder in the
"user" folder, and that’s because the bookmarks are so large, and
it keeps 5 backups of those". One movie is easly 100 times that
size. Heck, even 1 high rez picture could be that large!

And plenty of users who get told to have a separate OS and apps
partition, wont realise that its actually more important to backup
that particular partition than the other data partition which may
well just contain media files that are much easier to replace than
their collection of bookmarks they have accumulated over the years.

You keep saying that, but I don't see it.

Its true anyway.

Now if he'd ask "What is a partition", I'd say
just click the defaults, that option is for "geeks".

We arent discussing what you would say, we are discussing
whether a separate OS and apps partition is necessarily the
only way to go for the for the sort of simple user that has
to ask about whether to partition their only hard drive.

Quite a bit of the time it isnt. If only because it makes life
a lot harder when they believe that the system has failed
and are trying to make a warranty claim on the system.

Yep.

I'm always asking questions.

And the average user doesn’t. In spades
with those who are a little below average.

I learn something new about computers almost daily.

And the average user doesn’t. In spades
with those who are a little below average.

The average user doesn’t even use their system every day.

That's what a real expert does,

So you arent anything like an average user. In
spades with those who are a little below average.

not mouth off with 10 year old "facts".

The average user doesn’t do that either.

Do the numbers,

Been doing that since before you were even born thanks.

then get back with me.

No point.

There are HDs on the market right now that can
do sustained reads (single HUGE file) at 250Gbps.

The sort of user that has to ask about how they should partition their
2TB hard drive doesn’t have a drive that can do anything like that.

That's with track changes. On one track, it would be even faster,

The sort of user that has to ask about how they should partition their
2TB hard drive doesn’t have a drive that can do anything like that.

but then the drive's buffer gets in the way,
making it almost impossable to test.
Nope.

Sure can.

Nope. If they could, there wouldn’t be any point in using SSDs

If the head is already over the track, and all the data is on
one track. Max time is 1/7200 (7200 rpm) of a second.

That’s wrong too with retrys.

You can store a lot of data on one track these days!
Again, do the math.

Again, been doing the math since before you were even born thanks.

If SSDs werent any faster, there would be no
point in spending MUCH more per GB on them.

Again, do the math.

Again, been doing the math since before you were even born thanks.

On a "fast" HD, track to track time is measured in
milliseconds, on a "good" drive about 5-9. That 5/100 of a second,

You've utterly mangled the math by an entire order of magnitude.

comparied to track time under the head of 1/7200 of a second.

You don’t even know that his 2TB drive is a 7200 RPM drive.

Very close to two orders of magnitude,

Fraid not.

and on a 10K RPM drive, it is!

His 2TB drive wont be a 10K RPM drive.

Could you name it?

Yep, the free versions of True Image that
some hard drive manufacturers provide.

You said it was "trivial" to excluse you "data" from a system backup.
I said it wasn't.

But that bit was discussing the restore, not the backup.

If he ask what a partition was, I would not suggest what I suggested,

We werent discussing what you suggested, what was being
discussed was that claim still right at the top that Ed made.

but since he knew ask if, in the right place, he should be
able to right click on a folder, and select add to library.

But that doesn’t get all the data out of the OS and apps
partition, particularly the data in the users folder.

QED.

Fraid not.

Again, Under 7, almost all data is in the user directory.

And that cant be as easily moved out of the OS and apps
partition as you claim by the sort of simple user that has
to ask how to partition the only hard drive they have.

ALL new programs, and most old XP ones store their settings there.

That’s just plain wrong with that ALL claim.

Also the default for the "Documents" folder is there. The amount of
data stored elsewhere is, lets see, how do you put it, oh yes, "trivial".

That’s just plain wrong with plenty of apps.

Again, I'm not saying to move the "user" folder, I'm saying to move
the pictures, music and videos. You do know that one HD video is
larger that most peoples system and program area added together?

Yep, but you don’t even know whether there is any video at all on his drive.

(I did it for a reason that has nothing to do with
this thread, but the way the first gen SSDs worked.)

Wow, you are out of the loop.

We'll see...

Most HD failures are because of bad/cheap power supplies.
Wrong.

And my list was just failures, showing that HDs were number 2,

That’s your CLAIM, a different matter entirely. And just
plain wrong too with failures that cause loss of data.

and more likely that a OS failure,

Depends on the OS.

which is why you should backup your data,

Depends on how irreplaceable it is.

and on some systems it's MUCH better to partition to control that,

Nope, not when you have a decent backup app, particularly
when you consider the sort of support that the sort of user that
has to ask about how to partition their only hard drive needs.

and on Windows 7, having data somewhere
other than the system partition IS "trivial".

Not with the data that’s in the users folder it isnt.

What didn't you understand.
Nothing.

AIN'T going there!

Your problem.

Ah, you've never used it at all.

Wrong, as always.

Love experts that haven't used something, but know all about it.

Just another of your fantasys.

So to open email, you click on the .pts file?

The word ALMOST was there for a reason.

Never even thought you did, much less said it.

Never said you did.

 

[Rod Speed]

En el artículo <[email protected]>, Rod Speed
<[email protected]> escribió:

[snip boilerplate - woddles has it programmed into a macro and trots it
out when he's losing the argument]

Rod Speed FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/883xp7v

Yeah, someone else told me, AFTER I typed in a long response.

Thanks though!!! What a Maroon, he is, as Bugs would say!

You're so stupid you cant even manage to work out that those
fools got done like a ****ing dinner, time after time after time
and that’s all they can manage to attempt to bullshit their way
out of their predicament, even when you yourself pointed out
where that fool Williamson ****ed up so spectacularly.

 

[Rod Speed]

That is because there is nothing in software or hardware that will tell
you that you've got a problem.

Wrong. There are plenty of checks that do just that.

The article is quite firm about this.

Its just plain wrong on that and doesn't say anything like that anyway.

All ram without any detection will eventually corrupt data.
This is a known fact.

But its also a known fact that there are other ways to detect that when it
happens.

 

[Ed Light]

Most of us have Rod Speed filtered out, for past malevolence.

I'd say anyone that can ask the right question in the right area, can
handle it. About the only thing that would be hard, is the size you'd
make the "system", and that was what was ask.

30 Gigs should be ok, but if you anticipate loading it up particularly
heavily with programs then you could make it 50. Especially if you run
System Restore with alot of space for many captures.You can put all data in your own folder tree on the Data drive, not in
Win's tree. _You can Google how to change, like Thunderbird's tree of
mail and settings to another place.

It's very easy under Windows 7. Almost no data is stored anywhere but
the "user" folder. My entire "User" folder is not even on my "System"
drive.

How did you move it? Just drag it? I haven't been reading the whole thread.
I copied my system to the end of the disk and booted it up. It booted
alot slower, as on a previous generation of HD. The end of a HD is close
to half the speed of the beginning. Less platter flying by.

Very true.

But most people would use one partition. Could you, if you have several,
say that one of the partitions is short stroked?

You know of a free one that's a "non trivial exercise"? Even my paid
one, only a computer "geek" would know what folders NOT to select to do a
real system backup, but not get the data. No you can't just exclude the
"user" folder (system would not boot!).

With the imager in Boot It Bare Metal, Image for DOS, (note this all
runs from boot before loading a boot menu item) you have to image the
whole partition. It's not for backing up data. You can exclude the
hibernation and swap files - they'll be reconstructed empty on restore.

Hope I haven't answered Rod here. Have him blocked.
OK. But I copy them to an external HD. When I'm imaging I'd rather not
image to the external, and this way I have 2 copies in case the external
or main gois down. So not "Mad".

Then you've never used portableapps. They have their own "data" area in
the portable folder. Just like a full blown system, but no data is added
to the system. True, there are some limits, like you can not use file
"opens with", but if you do the "open" inside the program, it works just
like any other program.

You can actually install portable apps on the main HD or 2nd HD and then
you give the opens with honor. I have them on a TrueCrypted partition.
If it's not mounted, then you get an error.

I'd NEVER use it for MY system, but it's still

very user friendly for "visiting" someone elses system when you don't
have install rights. Friend uses it ALL the time at work.

--
Ed Light

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[Ed Light]

I would never do the 3 partition system. Just gets in the way down the
road.

It does let you defrag system or data without having to defrag your
latest gigabytes of video
System
Data
Multimedia
--
Ed Light

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[Alias]

How do you know? (serious question)

I guess I don't really know for sure because I haven't tested all my
data individually but everything I use works fine. Recently I did take a
look at some really old photos and all were well and some date back to 97.

 

[Rod Speed]

30 Gigs should be ok,

Nope, not with the Win7 64 bit he is asking about.

but if you anticipate loading it up particularly heavily with programs
then you could make it 50.

Still not big enough with the Win7 64 bit he is asking about.

And it makes no sense to skimp on the size of that partition
with a 2TB drive and the difficulty with increasing the size of
that later, safely, when you find its not big enough.

Especially if you run System Restore with alot of space for many captures.

And it makes no sense not to do that with a 2TB drive.

You can put all data in your own folder tree on the Data drive, not in
Win's tree.

Nothing like all your data in fact.

You can Google how to change, like Thunderbird's tree of mail and settings
to another place.

And there isnt really a lot of point in doing that.

How did you move it? Just drag it? I haven't been reading the whole
thread.

I copied my system to the end of the disk and booted it up. It booted alot
slower, as on a previous generation of HD. The end of a HD is close to
half the speed of the beginning. Less platter flying by.

Yes, but the difference isnt great at all with the other
obvious config, just a single partition for the entire drive.

The absolute vast bulk of the OS and apps will still be on
the fastest part of the drive. Your test is of a completely
academic config that no one with a clue would use.

And if you care about the startup time, you don’t do a full
boot every time you start up anyway, you suspend to ram
or hibernate instead and get a faster start time again.

But most people would use one partition.

Not with the 2TB drive he asked about.

Could you, if you have several, say that one of the partitions is short
stroked?

That’s not what that term means.

With the imager in Boot It Bare Metal, Image for DOS, (note this all runs
from boot before loading a boot menu item) you have to image the whole
partition. It's not for backing up data. You can exclude the hibernation
and swap files - they'll be reconstructed empty on restore.

Not what he was asking about.

Hope I haven't answered Rod here.

You have, because you are too stupid to read the attributions.

Have him blocked.

No one actually gives a flying red **** what fools like you do or do not
read.

OK. But I copy them to an external HD.

No point in not writing them there in the first place.

When I'm imaging I'd rather not image to the external,

More fool you.

and this way I have 2 copies in case the external or main gois down.

There is no point in the copy on the only hard drive when it goes down.

So not "Mad".

Corse it is, no point in doing it like that.

 

[Rod Speed]

David Simpson wrote

It does let you defrag system or data without
having to defrag your latest gigabytes of video
System
Data
Multimedia

No point in furiously defragging anymore.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote

OK, I give up.

Great, hang yourself thoughtfully.

<reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could
leave for dead flushed where it belongs>

OK, You I'd tell YOU to use a single partition.

I don’t, ****wit.

Most other people I'd tell to use 2.

You don’t get to tell anyone to do anything, ****wit.

And its completely stupid to be telling those that
get their system with the OS preinstalled, as almost
all of the simpler users do, to be reconfiguring their
system to more than the single partition for the OS
and data that they got with that system when that
produces **** all in the way of advantages for them.

I'd bet you haven't.

You've just lost that bet, child.

You'd have to be a Microsoft employee
to get RC code before Technet users.

Wrong, as always.

And while I don't think much of Microsoft,
they would never hire you.

Wrong, as always.

Again, I would not bet on that.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

What you might or might not bet on in spades, ****wit child.

Hard drives were just coming into general use, when I was born,

I've just won that bet, ****wit child.

 

[Paul]

No point in furiously defragging anymore.

The built-in defragmenter in Windows 7, will not defrag files of
50MB in size or larger. This is part of the reason it is so much
faster. Nothing in your video folder would be of interest to it.

But a third-party tool would still be interested. If you pay
$39.95 for a tool to do this, it'll make everything "neat as a pin".
That's because the third-party designers, know their user community
too well.

Paul

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

I guess I don't really know for sure because I haven't tested all my
data individually but everything I use works fine. Recently I did take a
look at some really old photos and all were well and some date back to 97.

Thanks. I wondered if you did anything like calculating a checksum at
the time of creating the file and checking it at intervals afterwards to
see if bit rot had set in.

You're not going to notice subtle corruption in things like image files,
sound files, videos, etc.

The problem with memory bit rot is when critical system files get read
into bad memory then written back out to disk. You get a slow,
insidious corruption of the system and the subsequent lockups and
crashes are put down to "Windows just does that".

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

The built-in defragmenter in Windows 7, will not defrag files of 50MB in
size or larger.

Because the fragmentation of those doesn’t matter
a damn, because the rate at which they are played is
entirely determined by the media play speed, so some
additional seeks between fragments isnt even observable.

This is part of the reason it is so much faster. Nothing in your video
folder would be of interest to it.

And they wouldn’t be moved even if they were
in the same folder as the other data files.

But a third-party tool would still be interested. If you pay
$39.95 for a tool to do this, it'll make everything "neat as a pin".

Because they don’t have a clue about what fragmentation matters.

 

[Ed Light]

The built-in defragmenter in Windows 7, will not defrag files of
50MB in size or larger. This is part of the reason it is so much
faster. Nothing in your video folder would be of interest to it.

But a third-party tool would still be interested. If you pay
$39.95 for a tool to do this, it'll make everything "neat as a pin".
That's because the third-party designers, know their user community
too well.

Paul

That's very handy to know. Thanks. I was using jkdefrag gui. I'll have
to check if it can do that -- it's on another boot item from the one I'm
using at the moment. I know there is a free one on portableapps.com that
can do it. Forgot its name.
--
Ed Light

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http://realnews.com

Iraq Veterans Against the War and Related:
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[Rod Speed]

just the puerile shit that's all it can ever manage.

 

[Ed Light]

With a 2TB drive, why squish it. My dad's Vista machine is at 90GB all the
time, with system restore. (out of 1TB, because 1TB is better that 500G,
when you only use 35GB! I was not there to buy that drive. ;-) )

It's to get the ultimate speed by letting the head move around shorter
distances. But on a 2TB, it wouldn't be going very far, would it? Hadn't
thought of that.
...........

Thanks for the tutorial!

I'm definitely not hip to networking and CRC's.
But I keep a portable HD with backups in a safe deposit box.
Also, I have all my unloseable files encrypted by "backup4all portable"
to a 32G thumb drive in my pocket at all times! And those backups with
the program copied back to my system's 2nd HD.

I didn't know Roddy alters other peoples' posts. Maybe he is underworld,
and will seek each of us out in real life with a sniper rifle.

--
Ed Light

Better World News TV Channel:
http://realnews.com

Iraq Veterans Against the War and Related:
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[Rod Speed]

Alias wrote

Most likely for most, lucky in that it hasn't hit anything critical...yet.

Most likely for most, it hasn't actually hit anything at all...ever.

If you did have error detection in your hardware, you would've seen them
reported to you.

Nope. Those who religiously do CRCs on their files don't.

And those who do run ECC memory don't either.

What you don't have is detection between cpu to ram... cpu to hard disk...

That's just plain wrong with both of those with CRCs on files moved.

cable connector to cable connector...

That's just plain wrong, there are CRCs at that level.

detection on the hard drive electronics themselves...

That's just plain wrong, there are CRCs at that level.

any write error detection...

That's just plain wrong, you can turn that on with most drives if you want
to.

etc.

There is no etc.

That is why your average user PC is very low cost.

ECC systems don't cost that much more.

A good system will cost you over $10,000 easily.

Mindlessly silly.

And nowhere in linux will you see any software embedded in the kernel that
detects hardware errors let alone soft errors.

That's just plain wrong.

Same goes for the mac, in that their back up system called Time Machine
will happily backup any corrupted data to an external drive.

And if you apply CRCs to those files, you will find that they don't get
corrupted.

Nothing is done there for data verification for its validity.

That's just plain wrong and you can do that if you want to anyway.

 

[Rod Speed]

Alias wrote

They may look fine, but I'd say that the data that comprises the whole
picture will have at least one or two pixels that don't match.

More fool you. Its completely trivial to prove that they don't.

In this case it doesn't matter, but for monetary records one bit mismatch
could be a disaster.

Fantasy. And trivial to ensure that they don't anyway.

 

[Ed Light]

Just use a newer defrag program with "zones". My multimedia files never
move, unless I screw with them. Try MyDefrag, and make a custom
script.

What do you think of Smart Defrag? It's free and appears to do that stuff.

http://www.iobit.com/iobitsmartdefrag.html

--
Ed Light

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[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Yep

there are many places on your mobo that won't check for it.

Its completely trivial to check whether there ever is a problem anyway.

That is why servers use ECC ram.

Its just one way of checking for errors. And when they use that, they
get **** all errors that need to be corrected, so the article is wrong.

For mission critical services, you need checks not only in ram but across
the bus, between cpu to ram, between cpu to the hard drive... and between
one end of a data cable to the other end of the data cable.

That's just one way of doing it. The other approach is to do CRCs on the
files and when you do, you will find that you don't get errors showing up.

The old DEC VAXes did do this level of checking, which during its time was
rather expensive. The system also logged any errors to the system error
log and on the operator console. In the error logs you'd see which ram
address had bit loss, which register in the cpu had a bit loss problem and
which bit, problems between the data connectors to the hard drive or back
then the tape units as well.

No news to me, I ran them thanks.

Today's consumer pcs are cheap because there isn't anywhere near this
level of checking needed.

Wrong, even the systems that do have
ECC memory don't cost that much more.

But you will need it if you are doing mission critical services.

Nope, there are other ways to check if errors are happening.

It is very emphatic about it.

You're mangling what it does say.

Such as?

CRCs on the files.

 

[Rod Speed]

David Simpson wrote

More puerile shit.

)

Looks like you guys have one of those kind of posters around.

He's one of yours

It appears he is posting somewhere in Germany or near there.

Nope, nowhere near there. Hard to be further from there in fact.

That's just where the news server happens to be.

These types are a real hoot tho.

Yours aint.