C
chrisv
KR Williams said:
I think you predicted the same for USB, though... 8)
I think you predicted the same for USB, though... 8)
C
chrisv
Anthony Fremont said:
Crikey. Neither one of these is for the Linux neophite, eh? I've
been playing with Fedora core 2 and I like it.
C
chrisv
KR Williams said:
AMD has dual channel for huge $$$, yes. Although it's also true that
the Athlon doesn't have the thirst for bandwidth that the P$ does...
C
chrisv
Tony Hill said:
I agree. It's obviously not as good as two CPU's, but it's also much
cheaper than two CPU's.
Agreed. ALSO, anyone considering trying one of the new Linux's should
be aware of a problem they have with dual-boot systems - that is, they
don't work, as I learned the hard way 8(. I had Win2k, and
installed Fedora on my secondary drive (installing Grub as my
boot-loader), and Win2k would no longer boot.
K
KR Williams
Wunnerful ideas don't always translate into great products. The
P4 is a perfect example. Wunnerfull, but not great.
I skipped the K7 generation totally. My K6 still works tonight,
thanks to a KVM. ;-) Games? Please! Perhaps something
interesting, but I don't do 3D-shoot-em-ups. I've not seen a
reason to go 3D. I've seen *many* to do excellent 2D though.
Have you looked at 9.1? I'm still wondering about the warning
message that I'm installing a 32bit OS on a 64bit machine.
though. I want to start over, but it seems to be adamant that it
knows better. ...perhaps that "German" thing? ;-)
That's what I've been told (obviously), by one who frequents both
my office and this group. ;-)
Hmmm. Is this why I'm getting the above *stupid* message? I do
plan on reformatting everything and starting over. I still have
this machine, at least until I get the CFO to buy into Linux.
K
KR Williams
Yeah, I was never a fan of USB and have only recently bought any
USB widgets (a still camera and printer, still in its box). How
long did it take for USB to become usable? It's only in it's
later incarnations is it even useful. If you remember my
proposal was to simply use Ethernet for low speed connections
(the infrastructure was already there) and Fire-Wire for the
high end. Though apparently Apple mucked the latter possibility
possibility up.
T
Tony Hill
Not quite so huge, the 1xx series of Opteron chips are actually rather
reasonably priced (I was quite surprised the last time I checked).
They start at only a bit over $150 and even the some of the faster 146
(1.8GHz) chips can be found for under $500. Expensive, yes, but in
the same basic range as high-end P4 chips.
Also, AMD just today announced their socket 939 Athlon64 chips which
should bring dual-channel Athlon64s to the masses. (amazingly enough
you can actually BUY the chips today too! albeit for a
first-on-the-block premium).
A
Anthony Fremont
KR said:
Bah...HT has a demonstrable advantage over a single threaded core. Of
course it's not as good as dual cores, but then it doesn't cost twice as
much either. I thinks it's hard to say that HT costs "more" since it's
not like you really have a choice on whether to get it or not.
Unfortunately Prescott is taking the Northwood choice away too.
Not really. It WAS a German distribution. Aparently Novell did a good
job of hiding that from you. ;-)
IMO installing a big distro in 15 minutes that boots straight to a GUI
is not a good way to learn how Linux/Unix works, but it is a good way to
mash your partition table and MBR if you were intending to dual boot an
existing OS or to be clueless on how to fix something when it doesn't
work. My suggestion was based upon the fact that you are an engineer
and I surmised that you were on a quest for knowledge, forgive me if I
made an incorrect assumption. Gentoo is NOT unduly hard, I don't know
why some here are making a big deal out of it. In fact it's the easiest
distro to upgrade or install apps in that I've seen to date (I have seen
a couple now ;-). IOW, it's worth the added effort if you want to learn
how things work. Note that everyone that advised you not to use it,
uses it themselves. ;-)
YaST is convenient, but it won't teach you how anything works. To me,
the beauty of Linux/Unix over windos is that there are no big mysteries
or black-boxes in how it functions. It may appear that there is
sometimes, but it all basicaly comes down to text based config files and
scripts. I'm not just picking on SuSE here, I feel much the same about
all "easy to install" Linux distros. Pay now or pay later. ;-)
That doesn't really follow my comment, so I responded above. ;-) I
hardly considered you to be a novice.
I fully understand that Gentoo is not for the masses, but it's a real
good learning opportunity for technically minded folks like yourself.
You'll learn allot more by working your way up to the GUI instead of
starting at one and working your way down to the details that you simply
must know to manage your system.
I'm going to frame that. ;-)
Good luck, sounds like you'll need it I'm afraid. 'man XF86Config' for
hints.
A small pocket knife blade makes a pretty good 110 punch tool
substitute. I use this technique allot after breaking a few relatively
expensive RJ-45's using the impact tool. I do use the impact tool on
patch panels though.
Try doing it all with galvanized pipe and then you'll appreciate how
easy plumbing has become thanks to PVC. ;-)
J
jack
: On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 07:44:52 -0500, chrisv <[email protected]>
: wrote:
::
::
::: A little more $$, sure. I decided add the $$ (go bare-bones
::: elsewhere, for now) and skip the K7 family altogether. Note that
::: AMD not only has dual-channel, but an integrated memory
::: controller.
::
:: AMD has dual channel for huge $$$, yes.
:
: Not quite so huge, the 1xx series of Opteron chips are actually rather
: reasonably priced (I was quite surprised the last time I checked).
: They start at only a bit over $150 and even the some of the faster 146
: (1.8GHz) chips can be found for under $500. Expensive, yes, but in
: the same basic range as high-end P4 chips.
:
: Also, AMD just today announced their socket 939 Athlon64 chips which
: should bring dual-channel Athlon64s to the masses. (amazingly enough
: you can actually BUY the chips today too! albeit for a
: first-on-the-block premium).
Oh man, I'm there! I have been waiting (and waiting, and waiting.....)
for this chipset (and the ensuing mobo) to come out for a while now.
Think I'll be patient and wait a bit longer however, as I **hate** to be
"first-on-the-block" with this kind of new technology.
J.
(/still drooling at the thought, though)
: wrote:
::
::
::: A little more $$, sure. I decided add the $$ (go bare-bones
::: elsewhere, for now) and skip the K7 family altogether. Note that
::: AMD not only has dual-channel, but an integrated memory
::: controller.
::
:: AMD has dual channel for huge $$$, yes.
:
: Not quite so huge, the 1xx series of Opteron chips are actually rather
: reasonably priced (I was quite surprised the last time I checked).
: They start at only a bit over $150 and even the some of the faster 146
: (1.8GHz) chips can be found for under $500. Expensive, yes, but in
: the same basic range as high-end P4 chips.
:
: Also, AMD just today announced their socket 939 Athlon64 chips which
: should bring dual-channel Athlon64s to the masses. (amazingly enough
: you can actually BUY the chips today too! albeit for a
: first-on-the-block premium).
Oh man, I'm there! I have been waiting (and waiting, and waiting.....)
for this chipset (and the ensuing mobo) to come out for a while now.
Think I'll be patient and wait a bit longer however, as I **hate** to be
"first-on-the-block" with this kind of new technology.
J.
(/still drooling at the thought, though)
C
chrisv
Tony Hill said:
True. I was thinking of the FX chips, which are like $700. What the
heck's the diff between an "opteron for workstations" and an FX?
Cool.
W
Walt
Yep, even inside my Chieftec case.
W
Walt
My birthday is coming up. Hint, hint... 
A
Anthony Fremont
Walt said:
How do you know it's throttling? Are you sure your video card isn't
throttling? Is it a Northwood or Prescott?
K
KR Williams
My birthday is coming up. Hint, hint...
Nah, I had to move things upstairs into Brad's old room (he's
"gone", though he's in town tonight). The printer was part of
S' Christmas present to go with the camera, but I really had no
place to put it (I did, but...). The scam worked and I now have
a new machine, but now I'm getting grief because I want to dump
Win. It'll still be there on the old system! ...just a few
keystrokes away.
K
KR Williams
In theory, you would be correct. For some "easy" workloads
Intel's implementation even works. For the random desktop
applications it's useless, and indeed can be detrimental.
....perhaps a good idea, louse implementation.
Certainly it was. Novell bought it mid last year, IIRC.
Apparently I'm not as ignorant as some though. The *fact* is
that there is no need to "get past all that German". You're
showing your arrogance again.
Good grief gert! I'm not looking to know how Linux works! Your
arrogance is incredible! I do *not* want to play with the OS!
I'm simply looking for a way to displace *WinBlows*. If I can
learn something along the way, that's goodness too. I *may* even
play with another distro on another drive, if I get the time. I
do have real work to do.
Gee, the WinBlows I loaded (to test the system, prior to loading
Linux) still works. Go figure. I guess I somehow know more than
you? Please!
You are incorrect, at least as a first order equation. I really
don't care about the OS. Sure I'd like (second order) to learn
new skills, but if the OS don't work, neither do I. I'd rather
have a working system than a dead pile of expensive trash.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. I'd rather learn my way around a solid
install and *perhaps* do a sandbox on the side, when I get some
more space.
Well, if what you say is correct (I don't believe it), I'd rather
bite the bullet and go with XP (puke). No, you can play all you
want, I need something that works and will please the CFO (who
isn't too happy about Linux, right now). The system *must* work,
before one can play.
In Linux I am. I've worked *with* AIX for a few years, but I
don't even have root access to my system (no need). There is a
learning-curve ahead, just as there was win WinBlows. No
problem, but I do *not* need to know how it all works. I really
don't even want to know.
Sigh. I do hardware. I cannot be bothered with the ugliness of
the software that supports what I need to do. Perhaps I'll get
curious, perhaps not. Yes, with Linux I do have that choice. I
like choice. ;-)
I want it to *work*. Yes it does, sorta. I've even connected
to the Internet (plugging in the other end of the LAN cable into
the router helped a lot), and can read the Usenet, but for some
reason can't post. ??? ..no more time to play today.
Apparently Linux crashed during the install. I reinstalled and
everything went hunky-dory. Of course I set up the monitors
(both were attached this time) to what I wanted, but I was a
little surprised that I couldn't select the refresh rate (the max
was auto-selected, I presume). I'll have to adjust the geometry
of the displays when I get time.
The displays are working fine now (since the re-install). It
didn't like my first try.
A tool comes with the widgets, but it ain't no punch-down tool.
This is just the commode fittings. The supply line is rotted out
at the connection to the shut-off valve and the tank bolts are
apparently corroded through. I do *indeed* hate plumbing repair.
New is easy. PVC? ...for waste perhaps. Supply is all copper.
[/QUOTE]
R
Robert Redelmeier
KR Williams said:
One word: KVM.
Iomega make a really cute 2 port with attached siamesed cables.
-- Robert
T
Tony Hill
Main difference is the fancy printing on the box :>
The Opteron and the socket 940 Athlon64 FX chips are otherwise
identical if they're running at the same clock speed (ie the Athlon64
FX 51 == Opteron 148 and Athlon64 FX == Opteron 150). In theory the
FX chips have only 1 Hypertransport link while the Opterons have 3
(though none are capable of being used in multiprocessor connections),
but I've never seen any motherboards try to make use of this
difference and I understand that the FX chips really do have all 3 HT
connections working just fine.
Of course, now with the new Socket 939 Athlon64 FX chips being
announced they are going to be somewhat different. Still using the
same die, but they will have a different pin-out.
Yup, combine that with the nForce 250 chipset arriving and the
Athlon64 is finally starting to look like a rather attractive platform
IMO.
R
Rob Stow
chrisv said:
The Socket 940 FX differs from the Opty 1xx only in how it
is marketed. The FX's also seem to be showing a trend of
being in the stores a little earlier than an Opty 1xx of
the same clock speed.
When the Opty 150 and 250 first came out I did a little
price checking: at some vendor web sites you could save
$200 or more by getting an 2.4 GHz Opty 150 instead of a
2.4 GHz FX. Wonder if that has been "corrected" yet ?
R
Rob Stow
Tony said:
No. All of the Opty's and all of the FX's have 3 HT links.
The Opty 1xx and the FX are identical except for the marketing.
As well, you get different cpu fans with the retail box FX
than you do with a retail boxed Opty 1xx. There also seems to
be a little anecdotal evidence that the FX is more overclockable -
assuming, of course, that you don't consider "anecdotal evidence"
to be an oxymoron.
What sets the Opty 1xx/FX, 2xx and 8xx apart is the number of coherent
HT links there are. 1xx and FX have no coherent and 3 noncoherent.
2xx has 1 coherent and 2 NC. 8xx have 3 coherent and zero NC.
Coherent can be used for anything. NC cannot be used for interproc
links.
A
Anthony Fremont
KR Williams said: