O
OldGezzer
What really happens is you let the smoke out. Everyone knows that micro's
are smoke and mirrors anyway.
are smoke and mirrors anyway.
P
plated metal
David said:
are you sure? power consumption goes as speed squared, but only linearly
with current (or voltage, if that's what you're adjusting), and heating
goes as power consumption (crudely put). if raising the voltage
increases the speed, it's because it supplies the extra power the extra
speed needs, and the speed induced heating effects dominate.
-p
K
kony
That's backwads, power consumption is proportional to
frequency*(voltage)2, that is, the frequency is the linear factor.
Dave
P
plated metal
kony said:
Yes, you are correct. After reading your post, I checked, and I had
recalled the issue wrongly. Thanks for that. Voltage dominates over speed.
-p
D
David Maynard
~misfit~ said:
Actually, I liked the pun
D
David Maynard
Ed said:
hehe. I noticed the spelling because you happened to hit on a phrase that fits
into a part time hobby of mine: phrases we 'understand' without knowing exactly
why because we've forgotten, or don't think about, where they came from.
Like "lock, stock, and barrel"... which comes from ye olde gun days when if you
had a 'lock' (e.g. matchlock), and a stock, and a barrel then you had an entire
gun: I.E. 'the whole thing', as we use it today.
or "skid row"... which comes from logging. Cut trees would be drug, one end up,
from the cutting area to the railroad, river, or where ever for transport, like
a skid. It got it's current meaning because all the 'necessaries' to support the
loggers, like saloons, whore houses, etc., set up temporary abodes, often no
more than a tent, lined up in a row alongside the skid path. Quick, cheap,
muddy, and sleazy: I.E. "skid row."
or "a horse of a different color"... While I've seen a few theories on this one
(colors of a knight's horse or horse thief boot blacking the animal to disguise
it) I have yet to see a definitive answer. But no, it's not 'from' "The Wizard
of Oz," which is the most common answer I hear, as it's quite obvious that it
was already a well known phrase from the driver's answer to Dorothy: "why,
that's the horse of a different color you've heard tell about."
They're all very much "in the same vein"
(which I'd be willing to bet is amining allegory.)
Once you start thinking about it you'll notice them cropping up all over the
place
Btw, in some cases we've got them mixed up; like Rhet Butler's famous line in
Gone With the Wind, which some critics lauded at the time for having finally
broken the 'cursing barrier' in movies; except he didn't curse. Tinkers repaired
cast iron pots by making a clay (or mud) dam on each side of the crack and
pouring lead into it. Once done the clay (or mud) dam is knocked off and it's
then about as useless as a thing can get; leading to the expressing "I don't
(wouldn't) give a tinker's dam (for it)." I.E. whatever you're talking about is
so utterly worthless you wouldn't even trade a valueless, thrown away, piece of
dried up clay for it. And that's precisely what Rhet said, and meant, in the
shortened version of the expression "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a dam (about
what happens to you)." One can hardly care less than THAT. (Some have argued it
refers to tinkers being foul mouthed, trying to preserve it as a 'curse', but
the 'dam' in it having a biblical damnation connotation makes no sense
whatsoever. If one were to presume that meaning then the appropriate response
would be "thank you" since the person "didn't [doesn't] give it [the
damnation]." It would, in fact, be a 'pleasant' phrase, albeit with a tad bit
of conceit, to throw at someone [My, Rhet. What a good Christian gentleman you
are to not speak a damnation of me after all I've done to you] in direct
contrast to the 'meaning' we clearly understand [he couldn't care less (not the
mangled "I could care less" some people use)].)
Oh, and the expression "it's so cold it could freeze the balls off a brass
monkey" has nothing to do with primates, either living, dead, OR made of brass,
nor any male private parts, hehe, but, well, sorry for getting carried away (I
wonder where that one came from). I just find the disconnect between
understanding them and knowing why to be interesting.
D
David Maynard
OldGezzer said:
Classic electronics engineering wisdom
Two of my favorite 'old time' electronics cartoons:
Customer in electronics parts shop with vacuum tube in hand. Clerk behind
counter shouting through door to man in rear stock room: "Harry... what's a 'tube'?"
Repair technician at radio station with multiple doors to wall sized transmitter
open. Technician to station attendant: "Are you sure there's something wrong?
All the tubes light up."
D
David Maynard
plated said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "dominates." They're different mechanisms.
P=IE (power = volts times amps).
For power calculation purposes we can consider the processor to be a complicated
'resistor' (at a particular speed and computational load) so...
ohms law: I= E/R (amps = volts divided by resistance in ohms).
The reason increasing core volts increases power by the square of E is because
as voltage goes up so does the current drain, in direct proportion. I.E. As said
above, P=IE and, substituting E/R for I, we get E times E/R which is E squared
over R. The R remains constant so power increases with the square of E.
As for speed, the major current consumption of CMOS devices takes place during
the switching transition time of the FET devices and as you increase the speed
you increase the number of transitions per second, in direct proportion, so
power consumption increases linearly with speed.
Regarding 'damage', you are correct, in theory, that overheating a processor can
damage it but, in practice, it's not as easy as it sounds since it will cease to
function properly long before it's heat damaged and Intel processors, in
particular, include a thermal shutdown for over temp (not true of all processors
and those CAN be destroyed by heat). However, even without such a precaution,
using a proper heatsink solves the problem (doable and practical because you
can't arbitrarily increase speed to get exorbitant power dissipation because the
processor simply won't run that fast.) I.E. it is not necessarily an inherent
failure waiting to happen. Such is not the case with overvolting. Regardless of
what 'precautions' one may take, if you apply too much voltage you *will*
destroy it regardless of what temperature it's at or what speed it's running.
Elevated temperatures do make the device more susceptible to voltage breakdown,
however. I.E. it will occur at a lower voltage. Which, btw, is how heat damage
does it's damage. Not by 'melting' the silicon but by lowering the voltage
susceptibility till it's lower than the applied voltage.
I
Invisible Dance
"The whole nine yards"; the belt length for a full load-out in a .50 caliber
machine gun in, I think, a Thunderbolt F-47.
--
Invisible Dance, (e-mail address removed)
..
..
machine gun in, I think, a Thunderbolt F-47.
--
Invisible Dance, (e-mail address removed)
..David Maynard said:
..
..
D
David Maynard
Invisible said:
That's certainly one of the "where dat come from?" phrases, and being a WWII
aircraft fan I kind of like the ammo belt imagery (although I usually hear it as
the belt length for a Supermarine Spitfire), but if you do a google search for
"the whole nine yards origin" you'll find it's by no means definitive.
Cement truck capacity, a football sarcasm (since modified to mean the converse)
that "the whole nine yards" DOESN'T 'get you there' (boy, that fellah sure went
the whole nine yards. uh huh), burial shroud size, grave depth, and amount of
cloth for a full 3 piece suit are some other common suggestions but they all
have 'problems'.
This page http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/19981012.html isn't an authority but it does
accurately sum up what such a search will reveal: So we're afraid that the
current Internet verdict on the origin of "the whole nine yards" is a resounding
"Who knows?"
That one is additionally interesting because it's a rather recent phrase with
the earliest known usage being in the 1960s, perhaps the 50's, so it's strange
that it's origin was lost so quickly.
That's all she wrote and the whole shebang on that one
David Maynard said:
..
..
..
E
Ed Medlin
little snippin'
LOL......I was not the OP of the vain/vein slip, but usually catch
those.....
The brass monkey was an inlaid brass plate with concaves to stack cannon
balls on old warships. When it got cold, the plates and cannon balls would
contract and sometimes fall off. Thus, freeze the balls off a brass
monkey........
Ed
LOL......I was not the OP of the vain/vein slip, but usually catch
those.....
The brass monkey was an inlaid brass plate with concaves to stack cannon
balls on old warships. When it got cold, the plates and cannon balls would
contract and sometimes fall off. Thus, freeze the balls off a brass
monkey........
Ed
A
Arthur Hagen
David Maynard said:
The best explanation I've found on this one is simpler than any of these --
a sports commentator's enthusiastic comment on a long jump competition. In
the late 50's, early 60's, that's about right for distance too. Having
heard Rob Beamon use the expression before it became common (although in a
different context) also leads credibility to it.
Regards,
D
David Maynard
Ed said:little snippin'
away (I
LOL......I was not the OP of the vain/vein slip, but usually catch
those.....
The brass monkey was an inlaid brass plate with concaves to stack cannon
balls on old warships. When it got cold, the plates and cannon balls would
contract and sometimes fall off. Thus, freeze the balls off a brass
monkey........
Ed
You got it. It's the different coefficient of expansion that causes that. The
brass contracts more so the balls eventually slip off the mount, if it gets cold
enough.
D
David Maynard
Arthur said:
Interesting. You mean as in "he jumped the whole nine yards?" I hadn't heard
that one but it makes as much sense as most of the others.
As I was posting another of the 'whole thing' phrases, I.E. "the whole shebang,"
it occurred to me that those with "whole" in them kind of cheat on the aspect of
knowing what they mean but not why as they include the obvious clue "whole" so
that the rest of the phrase becomes rather irrelevant. e.g. The whole enchilada,
the whole shebang, the whole nine yards, the whole kit and caboodle, the whole
<insert whatever sounds cool>.
I think I'm going to make myself a separate category of 'obvious' but unknown
source as opposed to the more interesting 'really' unknown why it means that;
like "lock, stock, and barrel" meaning the same 'whole thing' but without the
clue "whole.")
Crackerjack fun, eh?
M
mcheu
How about this one? You'll never think of this phrase quite the same.
"Rule of Thumb"
A legal guideline from an bygone era where a man had the right to beat
his wife. All too often, women were getting beaten to death so a law
was enacted in some jurisdictions. Specifically, that a man could not
beat his wife with anything thicker than the width of his thumb.
Pretty sick, huh? A sociology prof passed that little tidbit to us
when discussing social mores and how they can change over time. I
don't use that phrase nearly as often anymore.
D
David Maynard
mcheu said:
Your sociology professor seems to have fallen victim to another phrase origins
myth, which seems to have cropped up in the mid 70's or so (your sociology
professor can probably guess why at that time). While there are some legal
references to measuring against the "thumb," like your professor says, that is
not the origin of the phrase "rule of thumb," which comes from carpentry, and/or
perhaps other fields of measurement (the exact first use origin isn't precisely
known), and meant about what you'd guess: that the thumb was used as a ruler
(measurement): the "rule of thumb" and there are similar references to using the
thumb as a measurement in other languages. For example, in Swedish, the word for
inch is "tum" originating from "tumme:" thumb. Not surprising when one realizes
that the original length of an inch was from thumb tip to first knuckle: an
imminently logical definition since everyone was already using "rule of thumb."
(alternate inch measurements were the length of three barley grains placed end
to end and distance from first to second knuckle on index finger.) Face it, most
early measurement systems used various body parts: foot (rather obvious), yard:
Distance from tip of nose to end of thumb with arm outstretched, fathom: From
the Anglo-Saxon word for "embrace," it was the length of rope held between two
hands with the arms outstretched, HAND: Width of one hand, including the thumb
(height of horses), etc.
The phrase predates any legal reference by centuries, so you can use it sans the
guilt now although sites on 'sensitivities' suggest you be careful lest you
offend someone who still believes the myth.
For your own research try a google search with "rule of thumb origin."
While we're on measurements, and myths, that reminds me of numbers in general
and, in particular, 12 because it crops up in so many places. And in so many
places that folks try to figure out what the heck was so 'significant' about 12;
coming up with all sorts of wild theories including the spiritual and mystical.
It's not all that mysterious when you think back on the times and the people,
who were uneducated in general and about fractions in particular. 12 is evenly
divisible by 1 (trivial case), 2, 3, AND 4! WOW! Do things in base 12 and you
can evenly divide amongst the most common occurrences: half for you, half for me
and it works for 3 people AND 4 too. 12 eggs to the dozen. 12 inches to the
foot. 12 hours in a half day (2 halves for a full). It makes imminent sense.
Oh, and since 12 minutes in an hour would make them just too darn big, what
should we do? How about adding "5" to the division list to keep things simple
for the simple folk? 2 x 3 x 4 x 5 = 60. Might as well use that for seconds too.
See, the decimal system only makes sense for the mathematically inclined. I
mean, instead of 'quarter past the hour' (it being divisible by 4) how'd you
like to be stuck with 0.208333... past the hour (if they hadn't used a base 12
system)?
E
Ed Medlin
Your sociology professor seems to have fallen victim to another phrase
origins
wife often accuses me of remembering everything except things that really
mean something...... (i.e. mowing the yard etc.). I have never really
thought about the 12 thing. Now I know something else to PO the
wifey.......
Ed
origins
Good stuff. These little clichés are a favorite obsession of mine. My
wife often accuses me of remembering everything except things that really
mean something......
(i.e. mowing the yard etc.). I have never reallythought about the 12 thing. Now I know something else to PO the
wifey.......
Ed
D
David Maynard
Ed said:that is
using the
word for
it, most
sans the
about 12;
for me
seconds too.
base 12
Good stuff. These little clichés are a favorite obsession of mine. My
wife often accuses me of remembering everything except things that really
mean something......
thought about the 12 thing. Now I know something else to PO the
wifey.......
Hehe. The internet is a great source for useless information <g>.
Although, as the saying goes, one man's trash is another man's treasure
The bit about "12" has application in looking at how one culture tries to
'interpret' another when the perspective is so different (a considerationof
"deductive reasoning"). In a similar vein, there was quite a hubbub a fewyears
back about the 'discovery' that Pi showed up in all the pyramid measurements,
but the Egyptians knew nothing of Pi! Oh my! Proof of alien influence? (one of
the actual suggestions to explain it).
As it turns out they used a measuring wheel to lay out the construction
dimensions and a wheel will, quite naturally, have Pi as an inherent factor
simply because it's a wheel. No 'knowledge' of it required.
T
tom
For example, overclocking the old slot-1 celeron 300 involved taping a
for overclocking my first PC 286 i have to exchange the quartz
i solder a 12Mhz into place from a 8Mhz.
and my 486 / 33Mhz to 42Mhz by soldering a new quartz
to get my wipeOut 1 game running smoth.
good old times
for overclocking my first PC 286 i have to exchange the quartz
i solder a 12Mhz into place from a 8Mhz.
and my 486 / 33Mhz to 42Mhz by soldering a new quartz
to get my wipeOut 1 game running smoth.
good old times