OT: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

[Bill in Co.]

I hate to tell you this Russ but, if you remember all of that stuff . . .

YOU ARE OLD!!!!!!

Me of course, I am still a kid so I guess I must have read all that
stuff somewhere <LOL>.

Sincerely,
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

LOL. Let's face it, we must be old! Not only from remembering all that,
but from witnessing the "changes" in society. But that's another (and a
sad) story.

 

[~Sage]

LOL.   Let's face it, we must be old!    Not only from remembering all that,
but from witnessing the "changes" in society.   But that's another (anda
sad) story.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In 1975 I played a major part in setting up and entering all files,
ledgers etc. for the IBM System/32 and the IBM 3741 Data Station for
our company, learned both machines and ran back and forth between the
two..I was *very* young then so I'm NOT old now! Old is simply a
state of mind, just don't go there! ;-)

~Sage

 

[RJK]

Hi IanD,

I think you chronology is slightly off.

The Apple (Motorola 6502) and TRS-80 (Zilog Z80) were introduced in 1976.
In 1977, Commodore introduced the Pet (Motorola 6502).

In early 1978 Zilog introduced the Z80a. This was a major innovation
because in allowed for direct inp/out.

Then in late 1979 (possibly early 1980), Commodore introduced the Vic-20
which was a very dressed down Pet and considerably cheaper.

Between 1980 and 1982 Atari, Texas Instruments, Acorn, Sinclair and a
number of other companies were developing home PC. That was also the year
that Commodore introduced the Commodore 64 (Motorola 6510) with 'sprite'
graphics.

During this time, their were also PC cropping up in offices . . . the one
that comes to mind for me is the Morrow MicroDecision which was running
CP/M there were of course other like Compaq and Kaypro.

We now think of the PC as Intel (or AMD), but there were real PCs in the
home and office way before the IBM (and PC clones). The variety and
choices were staggering and the prices for the home ones so cheap that it
was a very crazy time. The last Commodore I bought (a Plus4), I actually
got a a Toys-r-Us and if I remember right it was only $249.

And just as an aside, if IBM had not gotten greedy and decided to
over-charge on the MCA (micro-channel architecture) bus, things in the
computer industry might have gone in a very different direction. The 'gang
of nine' came together because of that . . . they are in a lot of ways
responsible for the level of standardization that we have become use to in
the desktop PC arena.

Sincerely,
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services

Web site: http://csdcs.site90.net/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)90.net

I'm trying to think of the "office computer" and OS, and Word processor that
was very popular here in the UK many years ago, ...ahah "Amstrad PCW 8512
/ "Locoscript"
http://www.amstradcg.nl/epcw8000.html
An old friend had one of these for a few years, many years ago.
My Amstrad 1512 came with OS's MSDOS 2.1 and Digital Research, and I think
GUI Windows 3.1 !!!!

My orginal point, (sorry about poorly chosen OP / post "Subject" not
relating to content), was simply that on ALL my PC's since then - too
numerous to mention,
and despite always going for cpu's higher up the "current"range - with
resonable quality chipset / plenty of RAM etc. on motherboards, and despite
keeping a tidy machine e.g.
as bloatware free as possible, hd's in good condition reguarly defragged,
"Start" location mstly empty, ...HK** registry "Run" I keep an eye on, ....
Services ....I keep an eye on that's almost a full time job nowadays,

....point was that once in a while one starts something off that takes a
VERY long time !!!!

regards, Richard

 

[RJK]

<SNIP>

It's a lot harder with laptops (is your Aunty very "mobile" or
does she just like Mickey Mouse keyboards?), but IMO the only
reasonable way to buy a computer is to have a friendly
neighborhood computer shop build one to your /exact/ specs,
without all the shit you don't need or want, and WITH the stuff
you need or want but will either not get at all, or get the
cheapest/worst quality (that's what goes into name brand
computers in case you didn't know), all for a lower price than a
name brand and with service a few blocks away instead of weeks
or months of emails and charged LD phone calls.

AND you insist on the ORIGINAL OEM discs.

Hi, The Asus X5DIJ Laptop is quite lovely, and the keyboard is quite
large and pleasant to use, and the LED backlit LCD display is simply
stunning. They, (Auntie and Uncle), have a typical, (and aging
fast !), PC (midi-tower/XP Home ed.) upstairs in their little
"office" / hobby room, ...and I will be fitting a pci wireless card to
that in the next couple of weeks. Aunty needs the Laptop for
convenience - downstairs. they will soon be having ADSL phone line
and an ISP that provides a "free" adsl modem/router/wifi unit, ...I
agree with your views on "build your own," and indeed I've been doing
that for over 20 years. e.g My current main PC is now an "old" Antec
Sonata case+Seasonic SII 430w psu | Asus M3N78 motherboard | AMD x2
3ghz cpu (ADA6000IAA6CZ Windsor - 89w version is like gold dust
nowadays) | 2x1mb Crucial Ballistix PC2-6400 (800mhz ...well 200mhz on
the actual board !) | 3 x SATAII Seagate hd's | newish DVD-ROM and LG
dvd rewriter drives | 3 1/2" bay camera card reader | 4xUSB2+2x1394a
firewire ports | Zotac PCI-e graphics card | pci SB Audigy 2 ...I
think | Samsung SyncMaster 2053BW ...so "yes" one does sort of get a
better spec. over a period of time but, I often wonder if it is such a
"bargain," when you look at some of the packages on offer
today !!! ...still ....I love it !

so, ...you're preaching to the already "converted "

regards, Richard

 

[RJK]

WOW Impressive!

You had the Next Generation version!
Mine was Chicklet keys.

I sold it and got a Commodore 64
with a Tape Drive, then a Single Sided 5.25 floppy (was it 170k?)

Major Flaw wit the Commodore64
Where the Power supply wasn't designed to be on 10hrs a day
Which I would do.

I returned about 4 of them at Toys R Us before I got one that worked long
enough.
(WOW I was addicted to computers way back then even.)

Right now I'm on my laptop, watching the Science channel.
And I can't wait till "CHUCK"  on NBC Premiers tonight

I may need to go to Internet Addiction Classeshttp://www.icaservices.com/

Naw, too expensive.
Later!
Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support -http://www.SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Online Services -http://www.microsoft-online-services.com

I'd forgotten that I had a Sinclair ZX81  (with the proper tactile
keynoard - not the rubber keys !!!!)  

regards, Richard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My Amstrad 1512 came with 2 x 5 1/4" 360k ? floppy drives, ...and a
few months later I added that 10MB Seagate hd on an ISA card ! A
later PC (80286 -16mhz - 4mbs' 30 pin, ...or were they 72pin SIMMS?),
had a 20MB hd in it, and I think that one had a seperate ISA
controller card for the hd !
Anyhoooo, I later replaced the floppy drives in 1512 with double
density 1.2mb ones !!! ...and a different aunty gave me a massive box
of 1.2mb 5 1/4" floppy discs from her workplace during it being closed
down forever ! ...I think I eventually threw them away.

regards, Richard

 

[RJK]

is that with the additional 8087 Math coprocessor or without
for only $120-130 more (If I remember) LOL
I worked at Intel so we got a employee discount.

Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support -http://www.SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Online Services -http://www.microsoft-online-services.com

I actually would not want to go back to shoving everything under 512k and
trying to get
Logitec Mouse
Banyan, Novell, and OpenNET Drivers loaded.
(386 MAX was the only tool to do it.)
And IRQ's OH Boy Fun!
And even worse was hard Drives, You had to LOW level Format them
and if you didn't have a COMPU$ERVE Accout for $50 bucks a month (YES $50
Bucks for a BBS)
You couldn't get any information on the hard drive sectors cylinders etc.
So going back? No thanks
I'll take PNP Image backups and the Internet any day!

However this shouldn't have taken this long
Russ
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support -http://www.SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Online Services -http://www.microsoft-online-services.com

On my old Amstrad 1512, I had to buy the extra 128k memory module and plug
it in - to get to 640k

I notice earlier on this thread that I used the word "manager" twice, 2nd
time when referring to emm386.exe, I should have said "expanded memory
emulator"

I often think that software performance (Windows GUI and apps.), on recent
Pc hardware, in some ways is not much faster than my first PC, 25? years
ago !

As an example, many years ago I used to use DOS based "Masterfile PC"
(daisychain type database program), which could sort 4,000 records in 10
or 20 seconds, on an old 8086  8mhz based machine, ...mainly of course
because the whole program was written in Microsoft Macro Assembler  

regards, Richard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh boy, ...such memories, I also splashed out on an 8087 chip, so that
DOS based SuperCalc spreadsheet program had some guts !
....and you've reminded me of that SoundBlaster chip, that plugged into
a Soundblaster card - for a more realistic speech synthesizer ...was
it ?
That chip was marketed and sold in a lovely Orangey coloured box box,
with large lump of foam ...and that teeny square chip in it !

regards, Richard

 

[Roy Smith]

6800, not 68000.


Thanks for bringing that up. - I couldn't remember the 4xxx number!!


With the 6502.


Don't remember what up the Trash 80 used, but think it was one of the Intel
8xxx series, not Motorola. Or maybe the Z-80??? Yeah, I think it was
the Z-80.


I guess Atari and Commodore followed soon afterward, but my memory is
fading.

It's not fading that fast. The C-64 was a few months later as it was
based on the Motorola 6510 processor. There was a Motorola 68000 which
was used in the Amiga and the Macintosh & Lisa, but that was several
years later than the time frame we're talking about.

 

[Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]]

I know this is an old reply
but WOW I remember the orange box
was it a 14 pin dual inline chip also?

Ya HUGH Box for a little itty bitty chip!
of course they do the same thing for today also
Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com

is that with the additional 8087 Math coprocessor or without
for only $120-130 more (If I remember) LOL
I worked at Intel so we got a employee discount.

Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support -http://www.SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Online Services -http://www.microsoft-online-services.com

I actually would not want to go back to shoving everything under 512k
and
trying to get
Logitec Mouse
Banyan, Novell, and OpenNET Drivers loaded.
(386 MAX was the only tool to do it.)
And IRQ's OH Boy Fun!

And even worse was hard Drives, You had to LOW level Format them
and if you didn't have a COMPU$ERVE Accout for $50 bucks a month (YES
$50
Bucks for a BBS)
You couldn't get any information on the hard drive sectors cylinders
etc.

So going back? No thanks
I'll take PNP Image backups and the Internet any day!

However this shouldn't have taken this long

Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support -http://www.SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Online Services -http://www.microsoft-online-services.com

On my old Amstrad 1512, I had to buy the extra 128k memory module and
plug
it in - to get to 640k

I notice earlier on this thread that I used the word "manager" twice,
2nd
time when referring to emm386.exe, I should have said "expanded memory
emulator"

I often think that software performance (Windows GUI and apps.), on
recent
Pc hardware, in some ways is not much faster than my first PC, 25?
years
ago !

As an example, many years ago I used to use DOS based "Masterfile PC"
(daisychain type database program), which could sort 4,000 records in
10
or 20 seconds, on an old 8086 8mhz based machine, ...mainly of course
because the whole program was written in Microsoft Macro Assembler

regards, Richard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh boy, ...such memories, I also splashed out on an 8087 chip, so that
DOS based SuperCalc spreadsheet program had some guts !
...and you've reminded me of that SoundBlaster chip, that plugged into
a Soundblaster card - for a more realistic speech synthesizer ...was
it ?
That chip was marketed and sold in a lovely Orangey coloured box box,
with large lump of foam ...and that teeny square chip in it !

regards, Richard

 

[RJK]

I know this is an old reply
but WOW I remember the orange box
was it a 14 pin dual inline chip also?

Ya HUGH Box for a little itty bitty chip!
of course they do the same thing for today also
Russ

The thing is, that was during the time when hardware was "evolving" so
rapidly, and I was "seemingly" upgrading system box innards every few
months, that by the time I'd had 30 minutes use out of that Soundblaster
card, .....I'd progressed to a system box with motherboard in it that no
longer had ISA sockets on it !

My longest lived PC, towards the end of that rapid period of "ICM PC
Compatible" evolution was an AMD XP2600+ based machine which served me well
for about 6 years !!

....I think the AMD K6/2 500mhz, (just before that one), only lasted a few
months !!!

regards, Richard

 

[Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]]

Every AMD Chip I've ever bought has failed in less than 3 years
(About 5 of them)
Yes you'd think I'd learn.
But I bought Three in 1 year then 2 in the next
and within 4 years they all died.
I even sent the system to AMD because they didn't know why they failed.
Now that I'm 100% intel I've had no issues.

I don't like to keep PC's for 6 years that's too long in tooth in
technology.
I still have a intel Celeron Server that is 12 years old with the CPU fan
broken.
(Basically a Print server, and second backup)
But it's still going strong

About 5 years IMO is the max for a PC's life...
After that it's not worth waiting for it to boot
Later
Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com

 

[Roger]

Nobody mention the venerable Heathkit 8080 (my first one), as an option
had a casette interface intended for "massive" storage And the
"luxurious" Heathkit "All-In-One" H-89 (my second one) featuring a 2 Mhz
Z-80, full 16 KB memory and 100KB Floppy, running HDOS. I upgraded to
32KB and then 64KB plus 1.2MB Floppy and CP/M. Gee I'm old too!

 

[Leythos]

About 5 years IMO is the max for a PC's life...
After that it's not worth waiting for it to boot
Later

Never bought a non-INTEL cpu myself and never had one fail.

I have clients at small shops that still run Windows 2000 workstations
that are as fast as their XP counterparts with the newest versions of
apps.

While I would never keep using a production machine beyond a couple
years, I happen to have a couple nice 3.2ghz and dual CPU machines that
are currently faster than many average CORE2 and Core2 Duo machines that
cost more....

 

[ANONYMOU S]

About 5 years IMO is the max for a PC's life...
After that it's not worth waiting for it to boot
Later

This when you need your brain to be examined by a specialist. If you think
the machine has become slower to boot up because of its age then clearly
your brain has lost some important cells in those 5 years. Microsoft gives
people like you a title and it is called Most Valuable Pig or MVP for
short..

 

[RJK]

Never bought a non-INTEL cpu myself and never had one fail.

I have clients at small shops that still run Windows 2000 workstations
that are as fast as their XP counterparts with the newest versions of
apps.

While I would never keep using a production machine beyond a couple
years, I happen to have a couple nice 3.2ghz and dual CPU machines that
are currently faster than many average CORE2 and Core2 Duo machines that
cost more....

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
(e-mail address removed) (remove 999 for proper email address)

I've never had an AMD, or Intel cpu fail, ever ! (...never been into
overclocking - stressing parts beyond the binned specs.), and always tried
to afford quality parts esp. psu | motherboard | memory,
....this, my main Home PC, is an ancient AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ -
ADA6000IAA6CZ on an Asus M3N78, ...and I love it. Tiz in an Antec Solo case
and its' all very well behaved !
I am tempted to put more memory in it and go from XP Home SP3+ to W7 but,
when will I find the time !? ...plus all that time fiddling and tweaking
and getting things how one wants them - to get to that happy state where
everything works beautifully, ALL of the time !

Last year, I treated my 2nd PC's ancient Asrock Conroe 865PE to an old Skt
775 Core 2 6300 1.86ghz, then had to bung in 2x1gb HyperX PC3200 to get the
darned thing running at the limited 1066* / 266mhz actual / x7 etc.
....should never have pulled out that Pentium D 935 to repair a friends PC
...moan ..moan

One of the points I was trying to make was that at my XP2600 point in time,
it remained pleasantly usable for about 6 years, and putting off upgrading
was easier to avoid, for a longer time ! The hardware side of things is
fun, ...takes me twice as long as "normal," love to apply lots of TLC and
find best routes for cables before zip-tying etc. but, the thought of
knocking that Windows platform back into the shape I want it, i.e. the time
it takes always filled me with dread ! ...still does !!
....and that's with my "little" range application software ready to be
stuffed in from 2nd hd ! but, ...all those little bits of tweaking,
installing, that only take a few seconds or minutes each but, a dreadful
number of hours disappears during the effort !!!!!!

regards, Richard

 

[RJK]

This when you need your brain to be examined by a specialist. If you
think the machine has become slower to boot up because of its age then
clearly your brain has lost some important cells in those 5 years.
Microsoft gives people like you a title and it is called Most Valuable Pig
or MVP for short..

Is this a new way of advising that one should try to keep ones PC free from
bloat-ware, and keep an eye on registry Run locations, ...Unnecessary
Serices, ...Startup items, etc. etc. ?

regards, Richard

 

[ANONYMOUS]

YES especially if the querist is a pig.

 

[Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]]

LMAO
You are hillarious!
Thanks..
I needed a good laugh
Have a great day!
Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com

 

[ANONYMOUS]

So you are impressed with me? Go and explain this to {"Unknown"
<[email protected]>}so that he doesn't join the old profession with his mum.He
seems to have had a penis removal operation thinking that he can make more money
that way.

 

[Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]]

Sorry Anonymous,
To laugh at you, I thought where joking
I honestly didn't believe you didn't know these things.

Just Google "Moore's Law" and you will find some interesting knowledge
There are many things in the internet that can help you increase your
knowledge
Plus many books at your local library.
Please check some of them out and read.

My apologies.
But there is some great information about computer on the net
Read up, you may learn some things!

Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com