OT Bill Gates tells senators "we need more foreign programmers to remain competitive"

[JAD]

Troll

Fines for feeding the Trolls are being levied in lue of the huge increase
in troll population. This is especially bad under bridges and in the
gutters. Do not feed the trolls! ;^)

 

[Schrodinger's cat]

"I held off mentioning they were French, but it had to be said!"


In other words "I don't have a counter argument, so I use the oldest
lamest argument known to man."

Of course you like the idea of being paid for helping to produce the
products you pirate. The more drain you put on our intellectual
property, the more those corporate executives will scream for your
cheap foreign labor.

I dont pirate software. I buy it. I have a sneaking suspicion that my labour
doesn't come any cheaper than yours. You mustn't fall into the trap of
thinking that everyone outside of the USA has the need or inclination to
pitch up there.

The USA does not have a monopoly on intellectual property or copyright. This
is an issue which a number of more developed countries are grappling with.

You bang on about "Johnny foreigner" pirating software and in virtually the
same paragraph you criticise MS for selling cheaper versions of Windows in
poor regions of the world. MS are actually fighting the piracy in a sensible
way - why pirate the software when you can afford to buy a legitimate copy?

Again, it's just bad for our economy. Letting us do the heavy
intellectual property lifting while you sit around sucking it dry
might be good for your economy in the long-run though.

Bottom line is that Microsoft make massive profits doing business the way
they want to. That's why Bill Gates is massively successful and er, you are
not. He's much cleverer than you are.

But answer one question. Why are you cutting and pasting the headers from
other posters into your replies? Most of us know how to look at a header
anyway. Frankly, things like that and your redneck ecomomic theories do you
no favours.

Regards

Martin

 

[Conor]

If it were a global market, we would play by the same intellectual
property rules.

Thankfully we don't. The way IP is being enforced in the US is doing
nothing but killing off progress.

Microsoft's money comes from Americans. Microsoft pays easy to
control H-1B Visa immigrants. Those immigrants send the money home
to their family.

Why? They don't live in the US.


..

If you all paid for our intellectual property, the software you are
paid for helping to produce, it wouldn't be so bad.

So what about Americans using IP involved in Linux? After all, Linus
Torvalds isn't American. How many American companies are freeloading
off Linux?

 

[BOB]

My post was properly labeled off-topic and posted to an associated group.

But I wanted to ask David Maynard again anyway, does Microsoft
possess monopoly power over the personal computer desktop operating
system market? In other words, is Windows a monopoly?

I'm not david but try this. Since 99.99% of all computers sold in
retail are Windows OS based, and 99.99% of consumers do not "build"
their own computers then I would say, without a doubt, that
microsoft's OS is a monopoly.

One could argue that people can choose a MAC or build there own
systems, but do we make these arguments with other things?
Are we to assume AT&T was not a monopoly because EVERYONE could have
signed up with a phone carrier which was 300% more expensive but they
all choose to stay with AT&T?

What about cars? There are around 12-15 car makers in the world. There
was a time when GM and FORD were basically the only choice. What else
can we build one our own?

I bet if we all spent enough research and time on it we could all
build our own LCD monitors too.

ALSO there is the thing with profits. A business is designed to turn a
profit. Where did people get the idea that a company with stock and
cash reserves of 1/2 a trillion dollars needed to be "protected"?

If Microsoft needs protection, then I should have 100 armed guards
around me 24/7/365

 

[John Doe]

I dont pirate software. I buy it.

And the cow jumps over the moon.

I have a sneaking suspicion that my labour doesn't come any
cheaper than yours.

You have a big ego for such small arguments.

You mustn't fall into the trap of thinking that everyone outside
of the USA has the need or inclination to pitch up there.

The USA does not have a monopoly on intellectual property or
copyright.

We produced the vast majority of intellectual property. Most other
countries watch our entertainment too. I know that for a fact
because I have collected Internet TV stations, so I know what kind
of television other countries watch.

This is an issue which a number of more developed countries are
grappling with.

When they want our government handouts. They are happy to steal our
intellectual property.

You bang on about "Johnny foreigner" pirating software

Which is true.

and in virtually the same paragraph you criticise MS for selling
cheaper versions of Windows in poor regions of the world.

That's true also.

MS are actually fighting the piracy in a sensible way -

And fighting their inclination to go with Linux.

Bottom line is that Microsoft make massive profits doing business
the way they want to.

The bottom line is that Microsoft Windows and Office is a cash cow
monopoly duo.

That's why Bill Gates is massively successful and er, you are not.
He's much cleverer than you are.

In fact you don't know that, unless you are suggesting that the
richest person is the cleverest. Gaining a stranglehold on desktop
software helped make Bill Gates & Co. filthy rich.

Obviously you aren't the cleverest since you boast about Bill Gates
being charitable. There is nothing charitable about giving away
money when you are left with more than you could spend in 100
lifetimes. It's only meaningful when you fantasize that he will toss
you a crumb.

But answer one question. Why are you cutting and pasting the
headers from other posters into your replies?

Apparently you are a new breed, a libertarian control freak.

Regards

Martin




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[John Doe]

Thankfully we don't. The way IP is being enforced in the US is
doing nothing but killing off progress.

That's about right IMO. I have a difficult time believing that our
country is ruled by elitists, but that's about the only explanation.
Apparently they are out of touch with how the rest of the world
views/treats intellectual-property. The Bush Jr. administration
protects Microsoft like no one else in our country has talent (or
it's just a libertarian might-makes-right policy).

So what about Americans using IP involved in Linux? After all,
Linus Torvalds isn't American. How many American companies are
freeloading off Linux?

I thought it was the other way around. At one point, SCO was suing
IBM and others for incorporating UNIX code into Linux. Anybody know
what happened?

http://sco.iwethey.org/

That's the closest I find after a short search. No recent
information.

 

[John Doe]

Top posting troll

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Fines for feeding the Trolls are being levied in lue of the huge increase
in troll population. This is especially bad under bridges and in the
gutters. Do not feed the trolls! ;^)

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Bill Gates was in Washington this week, as usual lobbying for an
increase in H-1B visas. The richest man in the world earned his keep
when he looked our president in the eye and (without laughing) said
"Microsoft needs cheap, easy to control foreign programmers to
remain competitive".

Gates is right. Microsoft's biggest competitive threat is freeware.
How much can they afford to pay their programmers when the competition
is working for nothing?

Microsoft's golden era is over. A job with Microsoft is like a deck
chair on the Titanic.

Charlie

 

[Conor]

I thought it was the other way around. At one point, SCO was suing
IBM and others for incorporating UNIX code into Linux. Anybody know
what happened?

Yup. SCO has yet to prove anything.

 

[JAD]

almost EVERYTHING is a monopoly, FOOD stores for instance..... 30 different
names all owned buy a huge agri-conglomerate.

I'm not david but try this. Since 99.99% of all computers sold in
retail are Windows OS based, and 99.99% of consumers do not "build"
their own computers then I would say, without a doubt, that
microsoft's OS is a monopoly.

Good example of phony stats, that are used to debate a topic. Which is a
very commonly used tatctic.

One could argue that people can choose a MAC or build there own
systems, but do we make these arguments with other things?
Are we to assume AT&T was not a monopoly because EVERYONE could have
signed up with a phone carrier which was 300% more expensive but they
all choose to stay with AT&T?

What about cars? There are around 12-15 car makers in the world. There
was a time when GM and FORD were basically the only choice.

and it should have stayed that way here in America, instead of turning
Michigan into a welfare state.

I bet if we all spent enough research and time on it we could all
build our own LCD monitors too.

research time?.....it would take FAR more than that.

ALSO there is the thing with profits. A business is designed to turn a
profit. Where did people get the idea that a company with stock and
cash reserves of 1/2 a trillion dollars needed to be "protected"?

so if your dads buisness makes 1 million dollars and somebody decides thats
to much we should let them break it up

If Microsoft needs protection, then I should have 100 armed guards
around me 24/7/365

If it was your company the whistle would sound different. If someone was
stealing from your company at an alarming rate, or was under attack from
hostile people (wish we would have listened sore heads) you would want
protection. ANY legitimate company deserves protection no matter the profit
margine.

 

[John Doe]

Good example of phony stats,

Monopoly status does not even require near 100% market share, and it
is based on more than market share.

so if your dads buisness makes 1 million dollars and somebody
decides thats to much we should let them break it up

The sensible solution to the Microsoft problem is separating the
operating system from the applications. Microsoft owns the
significant money making personal computer applications. Microsoft
was able to do that because it controls the application playing
field. As Microsoft gets fatter and lazier, don't be surprised if it
sucks up what's left.

If someone was
stealing from your company at an alarming rate, or was under
attack from hostile people (wish we would have listened sore
heads) you would want protection.

Microsoft and other American intellectual property makers are under
attack from the world. Protecting our companies from us while the
rest of the world rapes them makes no sense. The best course of
action is to foster competition here at home so that the entire
country becomes stronger, instead of allowing a single company to
subjugate the rest. We beat our own while the rest of the world
frolics in the software pool.

 

[Mxsmanic]

The sensible solution to the Microsoft problem is separating the
operating system from the applications.

There is no Microsoft problem. The golden age of Microsoft's
dominance ended years ago and the company's position will continue to
decline in the future, although it will remain profitable for years to
come.

Microsoft owns the significant money making personal computer
applications.

Microsoft owns a suite of office-automation applications, from which
it derives a large part of its revenue. Most of the rest of its sales
revenue comes from OEM sales of Windows. The rest of the
quarter-million or so applications that run under Windows are mostly
written by someone else.

Microsoft was able to do that because it controls the application
playing field.

No, Microsoft was able to do that because the competition was inferior
at the time that the market for office tools was being sorted out.

As Microsoft gets fatter and lazier, don't be surprised if it
sucks up what's left.

As Microsoft gets fatter and lazier, it will lose market share, so I
wouldn't worry too much about that.

Microsoft and other American intellectual property makers are under
attack from the world.

Not really. Some countries are less strict in their protection of IP,
but others are more so (especially in Europe).

 

[ToolPackinMama]

John Doe writes:




There is no Microsoft problem.

Yes there is.

 

[John Doe]

Microsoft owns a suite of office-automation applications,

At least Mxsmanic isn't calling Office a single application.

from which it derives a large part of its revenue. Most of the
rest of its sales revenue comes from OEM sales of Windows. The
rest of the quarter-million or so applications that run under
Windows are mostly written by someone else.

Name the biggest non-Microsoft owned money making application.

We've been over this before. Microsoft's revenue dwarfs the sum of
all other personal computer software publishers.

As Microsoft gets fatter and lazier, it will lose market share, so
I wouldn't worry too much about that.

That's what Microsoft defenders and other clueless people were
saying during the Microsoft trial six years ago. There is no sign
whatsoever of Microsoft losing market share.

<Snipped more baseless argument>

 

[Schrodinger's cat]

And the cow jumps over the moon.

Maybe it does, but all my copies of Windows XP and Mandriva are paid for.

You have a big ego for such small arguments.

I would characterise my ego as about normal. I feel my arguments are
stacking up well against yours.

We produced the vast majority of intellectual property. Most other
countries watch our entertainment too. I know that for a fact
because I have collected Internet TV stations, so I know what kind
of television other countries watch.

How would you say the quality of the BBC's output compares to the US
alternatives? You have heard of the BBC right?

When they want our government handouts. They are happy to steal our
intellectual property.


Which is true.

Yup. You do bang on about it. At least we've agreed on something.

That's true also.

Yippee. Another point of solidarity comrade. You did criticise MS for
selling software cheaply in poor regions of the world whilst moaning about
people from the same regions pirating it.

And fighting their inclination to go with Linux.

?? But Linux is available for nothing! And OpenOffice is available free to
both Windows and Linux users. Pah! Pretty soon these crooks will have a
monopoly!

The bottom line is that Microsoft Windows and Office is a cash cow
monopoly duo.

MS is a very profitable company and it is alleged that they use their strong
position in ways which restrict competition.

Amazing really, when you consider that there are completely free
alternatives available.

In fact you don't know that, unless you are suggesting that the
richest person is the cleverest. Gaining a stranglehold on desktop
software helped make Bill Gates & Co. filthy rich.

I'm not suggesting that the richest person is the cleverest. I'm suggesting
that Bill Gates is cleverer than you. I stand by that statement.

Obviously you aren't the cleverest since you boast about Bill Gates
being charitable. There is nothing charitable about giving away
money when you are left with more than you could spend in 100
lifetimes. It's only meaningful when you fantasize that he will toss
you a crumb.

I didn't say anything about Bill Gates being charitable.

Apparently you are a new breed, a libertarian control freak.

Right. Why are you cutting and pasting the

Regards

Martin

 

[David Maynard]

Troll trolling

My post was properly labeled off-topic and posted to an associated group.

But I wanted to ask David Maynard again anyway, does Microsoft
possess monopoly power over the personal computer desktop operating
system market? In other words, is Windows a monopoly?

 

[John Doe]

"John Doe" <jdoe usenet.love.invalid> wrote in message

Maybe it does, but none of my copies of Windows XP and Mandriva
are paid for.

I feel my arguments are sucking up well to Bill Gates.


How would you say the quality of the BBC's output compares to the
US alternatives? You have heard of the BBC right?

How many major motion pictures did the BBC produce last year?

Yup. And you bang my mother when you're hard up too.

whilst my mother is moaning about people from the same regions
fondling it.


MS is a very profitable company and it is alleged that they use
their strong position in ways which restrict competition.

Only a radical wearing blinders wouldn't have seen that, even before
the United States federal appeals court wrote:

"...we uphold the District Court's finding of monopoly power in its
entirety."

"The District Court found that the restrictions Microsoft imposed in
licensing Windows to OEMs prevented many OEMs from distributing
browsers other than IE."

"Microsoft's primary copyright argument borders upon the frivolous.
The company claims an absolute and unfettered right to use its
intellectual property as it wishes: "If intellectual property rights
have been lawfully acquired," it says, then "their subsequent
exercise cannot give rise to antitrust liability." That is no more
correct than the proposition that use of one's personal property,
such as a baseball bat, cannot give rise to tort liability."

"In sum, we hold that with the exception of the one restriction
prohibiting automatically launched alternative interfaces, all the
OEM license restrictions at issue represent uses of Microsoft's
market power to protect its monopoly, unredeemed by any legitimate
justification. The restrictions therefore violate section 2 of the
Sherman Act."

Amazing really,

I'm glad you found that enlightening.

I'm not suggesting that the richest person is the cleverest. I'm
suggesting that Bill Gates is better looking than my mother. I
stand by that statement.

It's a good argument IMO.

Regards

Martin






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Subject: Re: OT Bill Gates tells senators "we need more foreign programmers to remain competitive"
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[Charlie Wilkes]

That's what Microsoft defenders and other clueless people were
saying during the Microsoft trial six years ago. There is no sign
whatsoever of Microsoft losing market share.

Pretty soon the Mac OS or something will all of its features and full
compatitibility will be available for PCs. Then what?

Ultimately we will all be using some kind of Unix type OS, with
unlimited flavors but a base of open-source code. How can it be
otherwise with all these gadgets coming on line? TV set top boxes
that aren't quite computers, but could be if they were hooked up a
little differently... game platforms that are the same way... cell
phones that are morphing into music-and-video playing PDAs with
elegant little keyboards...

One company, no matter how big, can't effectively serve all those
niches.

Meanwhile, MS is plodding along with an ex-CFO at the helm, mired in
the torpor of quarterly earnings targets, hoping to cram a new desktop
OS down peoples' throats and get a fresh run out of the deal. It
can't last forever.

Charlie

 

[John Doe]

Pretty soon the Mac OS or something will all of its features and
full compatitibility will be available for PCs.

"We'll come back for you."
"When?!"
"Soon."
"How soon?!!!"

And I predict that Charlie Wilkes will stop abusing drugs someday.

One company, no matter how big, can't effectively serve all those
niches.

You might notice that they are willing to serve Microsoft.

Meanwhile, MS is plodding along with an ex-CFO at the helm, mired
in the torpor of quarterly earnings targets, hoping to cram a new
desktop OS down peoples' throats and get a fresh run out of the
deal. It can't last forever.

It won't last forever. The problem is how it falls.

 

[Schrodinger's cat]

Troll trolling

Yes, you are correct David. I shouldn't have fed it.

The penny dropped when I realised he was snipping my posts down to half
sentences to move away from his early indefensible statements.

Regards

Martin