On Installing Windows

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From: "Sugien" <[email protected]>


| You do know that all wires transmit EMF (electro magnetic frequencies)
| information and are in effect a mini sort of radio transmitting station
| right? Even the 60Hz electrical wires give off a 60 cycle hum into radio
| land. Are you aware that someone with the right equipment one can sit out
| side of your house and even if you network is wired they can pull in what is
| sent along the wires or across your screen. True it takes some specialized
| equipment and anyone other then the government most likely won't have the
| equipment and anyone that does have the equipment to do so are also just as
| likely to not be interested in what is on most all home networks.
| They even have a portable faraday cage which looks like a pup tent
| stood on end for the traveling business man to sit in and use their laptop;
| because of this ability to pull in signals of computer monitors from a
| distance even if it is a single laptop not connected to anything and not
| even on the web.
| That reminds me that not so long ago business started pointing the
| flashing little led's from modems away from outside windows because of the
| ability to decipher it.
|
| --
| From the Desk of Sugien
| /}
| @###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
| \}
|

You are referring to Tempest Monitoring.
http://www.fas.org/irp/program/security/tempest.htm
 
David H. Lipman said:
From: "Sugien" <[email protected]>


| You do know that all wires transmit EMF (electro magnetic
frequencies)
| information and are in effect a mini sort of radio transmitting station
| right? Even the 60Hz electrical wires give off a 60 cycle hum into
radio
| land. Are you aware that someone with the right equipment one can sit
out
| side of your house and even if you network is wired they can pull in
what is
| sent along the wires or across your screen. True it takes some
specialized
| equipment and anyone other then the government most likely won't have
the
| equipment and anyone that does have the equipment to do so are also just
as
| likely to not be interested in what is on most all home networks.
| They even have a portable faraday cage which looks like a pup tent
| stood on end for the traveling business man to sit in and use their
laptop;
| because of this ability to pull in signals of computer monitors from a
| distance even if it is a single laptop not connected to anything and not
| even on the web.
| That reminds me that not so long ago business started pointing the
| flashing little led's from modems away from outside windows because of
the
| ability to decipher it.
|
| --
| From the Desk of Sugien
| /}
| @###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
| \}
|

You are referring to Tempest Monitoring.
http://www.fas.org/irp/program/security/tempest.htm
Click to expand...
Yep, that is some of the methods; but as I said it is very unlikely someone
would use such devices or methods to eavesdrop in on the average home user.
I was only stating what was out there; because I do like being thorough when
someone asks for info:o)
 
| Yep, that is some of the methods; but as I said it is very unlikely someone
| would use such devices or methods to eavesdrop in on the average home user.
| I was only stating what was out there; because I do like being thorough when
| someone asks for info:o)
|
| --
| From the Desk of Sugien
| /}
| @###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
| \}
|

No doubt about it. The equipment is expensive and the target would have to have something
of real value. Basically Tempest Monitoring is used for spying.

But hey, you can bounce a laser off someone's windows and listen to the occupants
conversation. Electronics have made spying easy.

However, getting back to the topic of discussion, wireless networking is an invitation to
any neighbour or community member to access your data or perform nefarious activity using an
IP address on your network if it is not properly secured. All they need is a wireless
compliant notebook. That's is why I insist upon and have suggested to Figgs that she use
wired technology first and then move over to wireless after she has learned more on the
subject matter and the infrastructure (File and Print Sharing, etc.) is in place.
 
David H. Lipman said:
| Yep, that is some of the methods; but as I said it is very unlikely
someone
| would use such devices or methods to eavesdrop in on the average home
user.
| I was only stating what was out there; because I do like being thorough
when
| someone asks for info:o)
|
| --
| From the Desk of Sugien
| /}
| @###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
| \}
|

However, getting back to the topic of discussion, wireless networking is
an invitation to
any neighbour or community member to access your data or perform nefarious
activity using an
IP address on your network if it is not properly secured. All they need
is a wireless
compliant notebook. That's is why I insist upon and have suggested to
Figgs that she use
wired technology first and then move over to wireless after she has
learned more on the
subject matter and the infrastructure (File and Print Sharing, etc.) is in
place.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Dave.....I sincerely doubt that our CSIS would find much of interest
on this computer unless they wanted a copy of my family tree, lol.

But I will definitely look into a WIRED router tomorrow. Spoke to Willy
about it yesterday. It would make it a lot easier to be able to access
almost 5 years of info on my old computer.....

Segue here.....I mentioned my neighbour 3 doors down took a direct lightning
hit. Seems that most of us have fried Network Cards and/or modems for
blocks. So may have to replace the card.

Thanks again to you, Kurt, Art and Dave Segall.

Cheers.....Heather
 
kurt wismer said:
4 miles? try 125 miles...
http://www.wifi-shootout.com/


they keep making new wireless protocols in part because they keep
screwing up the security... i understand that sometimes these standards
committees are more concerned with consensus than they are with
correctness...
Click to expand...

Like, when the fellow in the next street rings, and asks you to provide more
paper, to cover all the print jobs he is being forced to do for you :-)
 
Thanks, Dave.....I sincerely doubt that our CSIS would find much of interest
on this computer unless they wanted a copy of my family tree, lol.
Click to expand...

If you're going to take that approach, it matters little whether you
go wireless or cable. Don't do any business on the internet. Keep all
important numbers and info, such as credit card numbers, off your PCs
.... and never transmit them to anyone via the internet.

Since web site threats by gangs of criminal hackers are now the big
and growing thing, it would be ironic as hell to decide to go cable
instead of wireless and then take a web site hack hit.
But I will definitely look into a WIRED router tomorrow. Spoke to Willy
about it yesterday. It would make it a lot easier to be able to access
almost 5 years of info on my old computer.....
Click to expand...

If you can easily install cable, by all means go that way. But you
still have to be concerned with info you store on your hard drives
that might be of monetary value to someone else, of course.
Personally, being a old coot, I prefer conducting business the old
fashioned ways.
Segue here.....I mentioned my neighbour 3 doors down took a direct lightning
hit. Seems that most of us have fried Network Cards and/or modems for
blocks. So may have to replace the card.
Click to expand...

The first rule of using computers is to unplug the telephone line to
the modem and the power cord supplying your computer equipment at the
first sign of electrical storm activity .. and before you leave the
house for any extended time. You newbies!!! Hope you learned your
lesson :)

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
Art said:
The first rule of using computers is to unplug the telephone line to
the modem and the power cord supplying your computer equipment at the
first sign of electrical storm activity .. and before you leave the
house for any extended time. You newbies!!! Hope you learned your
lesson :)
Click to expand...

Another old coot (but I prefer old school, lol) type of lightning
protection is to tie a know into the electrical chord or phone line, the
theory behind it is that if it is struck by lightning the knot would cause
heat build up and fry it at that point before it reaches the equipment. I
personally however have never seen this tested or have likewise never read
anything about whether or not it works.
Some of the old school stuff does work, some is like old wife's tales
and the efficacy is in doubt. The one I do use however is that when
servicing a pc; before unplugging the system I touch the power supply case
to ground myself, and do that instead of wearing a cumbersome (to me any
way) static strap. I also have running along the underside edge of my work
bench a solid copper wire which runs out the window and into the ground to
make me a natural earth ground. I touch that after getting up and coming
back to discharge any errant static electricity that may have acuminated in
myself.
 
Sunny said:
kurt wismer said:
Art said:
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:15:11 -0400, "Heather" <[email protected]> [snip]
Is there any advantage/disadvantage to wired vs wireless??

Soytenly cable is more secure. But some people can't install the
cables easily. With wireless you have to understand that hackers can
pick up the signals up to four miles away with special antennas.
Click to expand...

4 miles? try 125 miles...
http://www.wifi-shootout.com/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
a good link thanks. I had read (but forgot the link to it) about the
electronic equivalent of the burning man where they supposedly got 129
miles. It is much like back in my ham radio days when we would establish
contact with the high power rig (in tens or hundreds of watts) and then
switch over to a flea power (milli-watts *millionths of a single watt*) rig
to get a QSL card (confirmation of contact) for a flea powered rig. The
flea power QSL cards are highly prized.
I haven't renewed my ticket for so long I would have to study back up
not only for the theory test but I most likely would even have trouble
passing the 5 wpm code test that they give novice's
 
From: "Sugien" <[email protected]>


| a good link thanks. I had read (but forgot the link to it) about the
| electronic equivalent of the burning man where they supposedly got 129
| miles. It is much like back in my ham radio days when we would establish
| contact with the high power rig (in tens or hundreds of watts) and then
| switch over to a flea power (milli-watts *millionths of a single watt*) rig
| to get a QSL card (confirmation of contact) for a flea powered rig. The
| flea power QSL cards are highly prized.
| I haven't renewed my ticket for so long I would have to study back up
| not only for the theory test but I most likely would even have trouble
| passing the 5 wpm code test that they give novice's
|
| --
| From the Desk of Sugien
| /}
| @###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
| \}
|

Ham frequencies are low. One must remeber skip waves that bounce off of the ionosphere or
even clouds. Thus a signal can bounce off aoffan atmospheric layer and travel further than
expected.
 
David H. Lipman said:
From: "Sugien" <[email protected]>


| a good link thanks. I had read (but forgot the link to it) about the
| electronic equivalent of the burning man where they supposedly got 129
| miles. It is much like back in my ham radio days when we would
establish
| contact with the high power rig (in tens or hundreds of watts) and then
| switch over to a flea power (milli-watts *millionths of a single watt*)
rig
| to get a QSL card (confirmation of contact) for a flea powered rig. The
| flea power QSL cards are highly prized.
| I haven't renewed my ticket for so long I would have to study back
up
| not only for the theory test but I most likely would even have trouble
| passing the 5 wpm code test that they give novice's
|
| --
| From the Desk of Sugien
| /}
| @###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
| \}
|

Ham frequencies are low. One must remeber skip waves that bounce off of
the ionosphere or
even clouds. Thus a signal can bounce off aoffan atmospheric layer and
travel further than
expected.
Click to expand...
yep, hence the coveted QSL for flea powered rigs. I also use to take a
black cat liner and change the single coil and capacitor (included with a
schematic back then before 40 channel CB came out)needed to make it 11
meter CB band. Of course however it is a good thing ole Fox Charley Charley
never found out, lol. I used to tell them that it didn't really do them
much good because talking further then you can hear back is useless. I also
built one for a guy that had Yagi quad (a daffodil looking set of beams)
that it would not hold the power he wanted me to make (a 2KW selectable in
100W increments). He fired it up and the Yagi started turning brown and
sort of wilted (melted). I also had a guy that wanted me to design him a
*full* wave set of beams, well until I told him how big a *full* wave 11
meter antenna or beams would be.
 
From: "Sugien" <[email protected]>


| yep, hence the coveted QSL for flea powered rigs. I also use to take a
| black cat liner and change the single coil and capacitor (included with a
| schematic back then before 40 channel CB came out)needed to make it 11
| meter CB band. Of course however it is a good thing ole Fox Charley Charley
| never found out, lol. I used to tell them that it didn't really do them
| much good because talking further then you can hear back is useless. I also
| built one for a guy that had Yagi quad (a daffodil looking set of beams)
| that it would not hold the power he wanted me to make (a 2KW selectable in
| 100W increments). He fired it up and the Yagi started turning brown and
| sort of wilted (melted). I also had a guy that wanted me to design him a
| *full* wave set of beams, well until I told him how big a *full* wave 11
| meter antenna or beams would be.
| --
| From the Desk of Sugien
| /}
| @###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
| \}
|

If you had a Yagi antenna "melt down" it was not properly created and thus the power was not
disspated into the "ether" but was dissipated in the antenna itelf. Basically a power-load
mismatch situation.

http://radio.meteor.free.fr/us/antenna.html
 
David H. Lipman said:
From: "Sugien" <[email protected]>


| yep, hence the coveted QSL for flea powered rigs. I also use to take a
| black cat liner and change the single coil and capacitor (included with
a
| schematic back then before 40 channel CB came out)needed to make it 11
| meter CB band. Of course however it is a good thing ole Fox Charley
Charley
| never found out, lol. I used to tell them that it didn't really do them
| much good because talking further then you can hear back is useless. I
also
| built one for a guy that had Yagi quad (a daffodil looking set of beams)
| that it would not hold the power he wanted me to make (a 2KW selectable
in
| 100W increments). He fired it up and the Yagi started turning brown and
| sort of wilted (melted). I also had a guy that wanted me to design him
a
| *full* wave set of beams, well until I told him how big a *full* wave 11
| meter antenna or beams would be.
| --
| From the Desk of Sugien
| /}
| @###{ ]::::::Dino-Soft Software::::::>
| \}
|

If you had a Yagi antenna "melt down" it was not properly created and thus
the power was not
disspated into the "ether" but was dissipated in the antenna itelf.
Basically a power-load
mismatch situation.

http://radio.meteor.free.fr/us/antenna.html
Click to expand...
I only built the amp, he assured me the antenna was set up correctly;
because he had been using it for some time. Had he not assured me then I
would have checked; but he said not to waste my time. btw, the antenna he
had was (I think) a brand name yagi and not a dipole, it was shaped much
like a daffodil flower with 4 pedals or a yagi quad. Or so he said. All I
did was to deliver the amp, load test it using a dummy load. I do however
remember looking up at it on the way to his house, and thinking to myself if
he was going to give all his neighbors free tvi filters or be the sort that
waits for the FCC to come knocking for his running an illegal system.
 
Roger said:
kurt wismer said:
Art wrote: [snip]
cables easily. With wireless you have to understand that hackers can
pick up the signals up to four miles away with special antennas.
Click to expand...

4 miles? try 125 miles...
http://www.wifi-shootout.com/
Click to expand...


Keep in mind that this record was attained when both ends were trying
for the record - war driving is another matter.
Click to expand...

yes, but it was also an unamplified signal... remove the parabolic
antenna from one side of the equation (for a more probable war driving
scenario) and you'll certainly cut down the range but i find it hard to
imagine that it would be cut down from 125 miles to just 4...
 
Art said:
If you're going to take that approach, it matters little whether you
go wireless or cable. Don't do any business on the internet. Keep all
important numbers and info, such as credit card numbers, off your PCs
... and never transmit them to anyone via the internet.

Since web site threats by gangs of criminal hackers are now the big
and growing thing, it would be ironic as hell to decide to go cable
instead of wireless and then take a web site hack hit.
Click to expand...

Damn....never knew that. Maybe I will just forget about that!! Thanks.
If you can easily install cable, by all means go that way. But you
still have to be concerned with info you store on your hard drives
that might be of monetary value to someone else, of course.
Personally, being a old coot, I prefer conducting business the old
fashioned ways.
Click to expand...

And being a tad younger than you, I do a lot of my business over the
internet. (VBG) I guess Ron will have to learn how to work a computer in
case I get hit by a truck, touch wood.
The first rule of using computers is to unplug the telephone line to
the modem and the power cord supplying your computer equipment at the
first sign of electrical storm activity .. and before you leave the
house for any extended time. You newbies!!! Hope you learned your
lesson :)
Click to expand...

That I did, as did neighbours in a large radius. For some dumb reason, I
still had my phone wired thru the computer, from the old dialup days, and
the wall jack was faulty. Willy said he couldn't believe how many people
came into his shop from this area. He was one busy guy!!

I do turn the computer off if I leave the house and have two good surge
protectors on here. CyberPower and APC. The lightning came in here via the
faulty phone jack, I assume (my phone was out for a while). My neighbour
who was right next door to the guy that took the major hit (down the
chimney) said it blew his USP. (or UPS....I can never remember that one
right, lol.

Cheers......Heather
 
yes, but it was also an unamplified signal... remove the parabolic antenna
from one side of the equation (for a more probable war driving scenario)
and you'll certainly cut down the range but i find it hard to imagine that
it would be cut down from 125 miles to just 4...
Click to expand...

You might be surprised. Those dishes in the picture were probably a little
under 30 db gain. Every 3 db roughly doubles your effective power, and
theoretically your range (not quite for a number of reasons, but close
enough for estimates). A normal wireless notebook card is basically
isotropic (radiates evenly in all directions), and a typical router
antenna is only moderately better due to center loading. I have yet to see
any of them work reliably too far outside 100 yards, no matter what they
say in the advertisements.

Figure 120 yards doubled 10 times or so... converted to miles... I
think you'll probably come out at right around half the distance we're
talking about. Of course you could probably get a bit more range out of a
"standard" setup under ideal conditions, and the dishes may have had a bit
more punch, but the point is, the distance was ALL antenna. Take away
those big parabolas, and you got nuttin'. :)

By the way, I've been shuffling around mail and news clients so much that
I lost your last email. :( Think it was a Sylpheed "sidegrade" that got
it. If you want, resend the sucker...
 
I haven't renewed my ticket for so long I would have to study back up
not only for the theory test but I most likely would even have trouble
passing the 5 wpm code test that they give novice's
Click to expand...

Seems most newbies these days just memorize a few answers to get a
no-code ticket, and if you wait a few more months there won't be any
code requirement at all.
 
From: "Art" <[email protected]>

..
|
| Don't trust surge protectors. Always unplug from the wall socket.
|
| Art
|
| http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

Right !

Surge protectors (which use Metal Oxide Varistors [MOVs]) will sink transient surges but not
a close or direct hit of lightning. The amount of joules the MOV can sink is very low as
compared to the energy in joules that a lightning strike can induce. Note that once a MOV's
rating is exceeded it will "pop" and no longer be useful and would have to be replaced.
 
You might be surprised. Those dishes in the picture were probably a little
under 30 db gain.
Click to expand...

I wondered if dishes were used at both ends to achieve that distance.
Every 3 db roughly doubles your effective power, and
theoretically your range (not quite for a number of reasons, but close
enough for estimates). A normal wireless notebook card is basically
isotropic (radiates evenly in all directions), and a typical router
antenna is only moderately better due to center loading. I have yet to see
any of them work reliably too far outside 100 yards, no matter what they
say in the advertisements.

Figure 120 yards doubled 10 times or so... converted to miles... I
think you'll probably come out at right around half the distance we're
talking about. Of course you could probably get a bit more range out of a
"standard" setup under ideal conditions, and the dishes may have had a bit
more punch, but the point is, the distance was ALL antenna. Take away
those big parabolas, and you got nuttin'. :)
Click to expand...

Without doing a bunch of calculations, I'd guess that probably what
you have in a realistic spy/hacking scenario is something like the 4
mile max radius I've read about. And less than that with unobtrusive
driveby spy/hacking where the high gain antennas can't be too obvious.
It's amusing to imagine trucks roaming around with large rotating
parabolas on top :)

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
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