OEM Windows: XP uninstall on 1st computer; Install on 2nd computer

[Ken Blake]

Like most people, I don't want a no-name computer built by some
fly-by-night shop and possibly even ordered over the Internet. What I want
is a name-brand system sold by a reputable local retailer that's been
around a decade or two, so if there's a problem I can take it back and be
sure of a refund.

Two points:

1. What you *want* is completely irrelevant. You said "the problem is that
even though you have a full retail license, you still have to pay for an OEM
license with every machine you buy." That statement is absolutely false and
I pointed it out. If you don't want to buy a computer from a local shop, and
prefer a national OEM, that's your choice, but it doesn't change the fact
that what you said wasn't correct.

2. I didn't suggest that anybody should buy a computer from "some
fly-by-night shop" Personally I have all my computers custom-built to my
specifications by a local shop that's been around for many years. I trust
them, I get excatly the configuration I want with an excellent warantee, and
I do *not* get an OEM copy of Windows with it. You may choose to buy
whatever you want, but as for me, I greatly prefer this alternative to the
big national OEM machines.

 

[Ken Blake]

And they're also pretty much the worse places to buy computers, when one
considers the knowledge level of their sales staff and their after sales
support....

Absolutely right!

 

[arachnid]

And they're also pretty much the worse places to buy computers, when
one considers the knowledge level of their sales staff and their after
sales support....

Nevertheless they're where most consumers get their computers, and
Microsoft has ensured through monopoly-backed pressure on the OEM's that
it's impossible to buy a bare PC at those places. So, people who already
own XP full and just want to replace broken or out-of-date machines, have
to pay for an OEM version they don't need or want.

At the very least, Microsoft should have a rebate program in place. With
the current WPA/WGA/WGAN setup it would be possible to give consumers a
30-day trial period and the option of sending in an enclosed card for a
refund, or registering online, by phone, or through the mail.

 

[Bob I]

Here is a solution for you, consider that the OEM version was tossed in
for free, as part of the software bundle. Then you won't have to worry
about having paid for it.

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

Um, your motherboard has a manufacturer and, guess what, they have a
warranty. Same holds true for every other component of any consequence
that goes into making a computer. Dell, HP, et al, make more money on
the crap they bundle with Windows than they do from you so guess who
they are beholding to? Hint: it's not you. You'd be better off building
it yourself or getting someone who knows what they're doing to build it.

Alias

Good advice. But of course, many people do not have the necessary
skills (or time, or friends with the necessary skills and time) to
build their own PCs. Which is why they purchase pre-built machines.

By the way, I don't believe Microsoft HAS any such thing as an
"exclusionary OEM agreement" any more. That was gotten rid of by the
courts when Microsoft was found guilty of monopolistic behavior, if
I'm not mistaken.

OEM producers are now free to install any OS they want.
And many do.

In fact, many OEMs will install any OS YOU want on your machine, or
none at all, for that matter.

==

Donald L. McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
==========================================================

 

[arachnid]

Good advice. But of course, many people do not have the necessary
skills (or time, or friends with the necessary skills and time) to build
their own PCs. Which is why they purchase pre-built machines.

I've known *many* nontechnical users who bought their machines from the
corner dealer thinking they had something ultra-high-powered and bleeding
edge, when it was two-year-old hardware and cheap no-name parts. Look
through the WGA gripes in this group and you'll notice an inordinate
number of them come from people who bought their computers from corner
computer stores and ended up with a pirated Windows.

Nontechnical people are at least experienced enough to know they are
better off dealing with respected retailers and known brand names. Fierce
competition for shelf space and the retailer's aversion to angry customers
and large numbers of returns tends to keep things honest, and I've never
yet seen a one-off computer beat the sale price of an equivalent
mass-produced/mass-marketed system.

Also, more than half of the computers sold in the US now are laptops.
There aren't very many corner computer stores that can build custom
laptops and I wouldn't buy one there anyway because local retail stores
already have them dirt-cheap. However they'd be even cheaper if I didn't
have to pay for a bundled copy of Windows than I don't need or want.

By the way, I don't believe Microsoft HAS any such thing as an
"exclusionary OEM agreement" any more. That was gotten rid of by the
courts when Microsoft was found guilty of monopolistic behavior, if I'm
not mistaken.

Microsoft has been known to build secrecy clauses into their OEM
agreements. In their case against Microsoft, BeOS claimed that secret OEM
agreements like the ones that came to light during the antitrust trial are
what shut down their own access to the market. So how can anyone ever know
whether Microsoft is still doing secret agreements?

What one can do is take a black-box approach, look at the millions of
copies of Windows XP Full being sold versus the total lack of bare PC's
in those same retail stores and via the large respected Internet dealers,
consider Microsoft's history of secret agreements to maintain just this
situation in the past, and deduce that they're still doing it.

OEM producers are now free to install any OS they want. And many do.

In fact, many OEMs will install any OS YOU want on your machine, or none
at all, for that matter.

Maybe if you mail-order or are lucky enough to have one of their outlets
in your city. However you cannot walk into the usual places where most
consumers commonly buy their computers and pick up an Intel-architecture
machine minus Windows.

 

[arachnid]

Here is a solution for you, consider that the OEM version was tossed in
for free, as part of the software bundle. Then you won't have to worry
about having paid for it.

Why don't you send me $100 and then forget about the cash you just gave up
and that way you won't have to worry about it.

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

I've known *many* nontechnical users who bought their machines from the
corner dealer thinking they had something ultra-high-powered and bleeding
edge, when it was two-year-old hardware and cheap no-name parts. Look
through the WGA gripes in this group and you'll notice an inordinate
number of them come from people who bought their computers from corner
computer stores and ended up with a pirated Windows.

Nontechnical people are at least experienced enough to know they are
better off dealing with respected retailers and known brand names. Fierce
competition for shelf space and the retailer's aversion to angry customers
and large numbers of returns tends to keep things honest, and I've never
yet seen a one-off computer beat the sale price of an equivalent
mass-produced/mass-marketed system.

Also, more than half of the computers sold in the US now are laptops.
There aren't very many corner computer stores that can build custom
laptops and I wouldn't buy one there anyway because local retail stores
already have them dirt-cheap. However they'd be even cheaper if I didn't
have to pay for a bundled copy of Windows than I don't need or want.


Microsoft has been known to build secrecy clauses into their OEM
agreements. In their case against Microsoft, BeOS claimed that secret OEM
agreements like the ones that came to light during the antitrust trial are
what shut down their own access to the market. So how can anyone ever know
whether Microsoft is still doing secret agreements?

What one can do is take a black-box approach, look at the millions of
copies of Windows XP Full being sold versus the total lack of bare PC's
in those same retail stores and via the large respected Internet dealers,
consider Microsoft's history of secret agreements to maintain just this
situation in the past, and deduce that they're still doing it.


Maybe if you mail-order or are lucky enough to have one of their outlets
in your city. However you cannot walk into the usual places where most
consumers commonly buy their computers and pick up an Intel-architecture
machine minus Windows.

Anyone who wants to purchase a decent Off-the-shelf Intel-architecture
computer only has to walk into an apple store (or Apple distributor,
such as CompUSA) and purchase an Apple Intel PC. It will not come
with Windows. Instead, it will come with OS X. But he can easily put
his own copy of XP on it, if he wishes. In addition, almost EVERY
Apple Intel PC is Vista-ready (except those which use shared video
memory, such as the lower-end MacBook and the Mac Minis).

My Apple Intel iMac 17" 1.83 ghz Duo-core machine w/2gb runs XP VERY
WELL, and is slick as snot on a wet doorknob. And its stable as a
continent (relatively, since I know the continental plates move
around, so don't get all techie on me, ok?)

IN my opinion, the new MacPro (Apple's Intel successor to the Power PC
line) is an EXCELLENT Vista machine, even at the low-end (~$2195). I
ran Vista Beta 2 with little trouble even on my Intel iMac 17" --
1.83ghz Duo-Core (32bit). I'm sure when Vista reaches RTM, it will
run it very smoothly, even with Aero. Even on my machine, I got a
over-all score of 3 (and two or three of the criterion being above 4,
but NOTHING less than 3), with Aero running. With a MacPro's Dual
Duo-core (64bit) processors, and screaming video cards, Vista 64 will
EASILY out run MANY a more-expensive Wintel PC.

==

Donald L. McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
==========================================================

 

[--Alias--]

I've known *many* nontechnical users who bought their machines from the
corner dealer thinking they had something ultra-high-powered and bleeding
edge, when it was two-year-old hardware and cheap no-name parts. Look
through the WGA gripes in this group and you'll notice an inordinate
number of them come from people who bought their computers from corner
computer stores and ended up with a pirated Windows.

Nontechnical people are at least experienced enough to know they are
better off dealing with respected retailers and known brand names. Fierce
competition for shelf space and the retailer's aversion to angry customers
and large numbers of returns tends to keep things honest, and I've never
yet seen a one-off computer beat the sale price of an equivalent
mass-produced/mass-marketed system.

Also, more than half of the computers sold in the US now are laptops.
There aren't very many corner computer stores that can build custom
laptops and I wouldn't buy one there anyway because local retail stores
already have them dirt-cheap. However they'd be even cheaper if I didn't
have to pay for a bundled copy of Windows than I don't need or want.


Microsoft has been known to build secrecy clauses into their OEM
agreements. In their case against Microsoft, BeOS claimed that secret OEM
agreements like the ones that came to light during the antitrust trial are
what shut down their own access to the market. So how can anyone ever know
whether Microsoft is still doing secret agreements?

What one can do is take a black-box approach, look at the millions of
copies of Windows XP Full being sold versus the total lack of bare PC's
in those same retail stores and via the large respected Internet dealers,
consider Microsoft's history of secret agreements to maintain just this
situation in the past, and deduce that they're still doing it.


Maybe if you mail-order or are lucky enough to have one of their outlets
in your city. However you cannot walk into the usual places where most
consumers commonly buy their computers and pick up an Intel-architecture
machine minus Windows.

Not where I live. There are several national computer store chains that
will sell you a computer with XP, Linux or no OS. You can also choose
between Intel or AMD. One of them will teach/help you build your own.
Please do not assume that on an International newsgroup everyone is in
the USA.

Alias

 

[Bob I]

Why don't you send me $100 and then forget about the cash you just gave up
and that way you won't have to worry about it.

You really don't have a clue about the relative cost of a bigbox OEM
license do you.

 

[arachnid]

Please do not assume that on an International newsgroup everyone is in
the USA

Please do not assume on an International newsgroup that everyone is
speaking internationally, especially when they refer (As I did several
times) to the US.

 

[--Alias--]

Please do not assume on an International newsgroup that everyone is
speaking internationally, especially when they refer (As I did several
times) to the US.

Touché

Alias

 

[arachnid]

Anyone who wants to purchase a decent Off-the-shelf Intel-architecture
computer only has to walk into an apple store (or Apple distributor,
such as CompUSA) and purchase an Apple Intel PC.

This non-apple notebook cost me a bit over $700 and I'm very happy with
the hardware. It's got more speed, power, and features than I know what to
do with. Mac notebooks didn't even come close on price.

It will not come with Windows. Instead, it will come with OS X.

Can I buy the machine bare without paying for OS X? If not then I'm still
having to pay for an OS that I don't want.

But he can easily put his own copy of XP on it, if he wishes. In
addition, almost EVERY Apple Intel PC is Vista-ready (except those which
use shared video memory, such as the lower-end MacBook and the Mac Minis).

Apple is just Microsoft with a monopoly on the computer platform, too.
At least they do a much better job of design than Microsoft, but
it's still putting all your eggs in one basket. You never know who might
buy them out and spring some nasty new policies on you. Over the past 20
years I've seen many a favorite applications vendor go downhill after
being bought out.

My Apple Intel iMac 17" 1.83 ghz Duo-core machine w/2gb runs XP VERY
WELL, and is slick as snot on a wet doorknob. And its stable as a
continent (relatively, since I know the continental plates move around,
so don't get all techie on me, ok?)

Apples are very pretty machines, but it makes no sense to spend a lot of
extra money on a Ferrari when a Chevy will get me around just fine.

IN my opinion, the new MacPro (Apple's Intel successor to the Power PC
line) is an EXCELLENT Vista machine, even at the low-end (~$2195).

I ran Vista Beta 2 with little trouble even on my Intel iMac 17" --
1.83ghz Duo-Core (32bit). I'm sure when Vista reaches RTM, it will run
it very smoothly, even with Aero. Even on my machine, I got a over-all
score of 3 (and two or three of the criterion being above 4, but NOTHING
less than 3), with Aero running.

I've no intention of ever using another Microsoft OS after XP is gone, so
Vista compatability isn't an issue to me.

With a MacPro's Dual Duo-core (64bit) processors, and screaming video
cards, Vista 64 will EASILY out run MANY a more-expensive Wintel PC.

My less-expensive Wintel notebook does more than I need.

 

[arachnid]

You really don't have a clue about the relative cost of a bigbox OEM
license do you.

The price of Windows has nothing to do with the stupidity of your argument.

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

This non-apple notebook cost me a bit over $700 and I'm very happy with
the hardware. It's got more speed, power, and features than I know what to
do with. Mac notebooks didn't even come close on price.


Can I buy the machine bare without paying for OS X? If not then I'm still
having to pay for an OS that I don't want.

When you buy a new Apple, the price of the OS is not factored in. For
all intents and purposes, it is "free". But it MUST be installed (at
the current time) if you want to dual boot with XP using Apple's Boot
Camp Assistant, since Apples do not use a BIOS, they use an EFI
partition. As far as I know, Windows does not use EFI partitions at
this time.

Apple is just Microsoft with a monopoly on the computer platform, too.
At least they do a much better job of design than Microsoft, but
it's still putting all your eggs in one basket. You never know who might
buy them out and spring some nasty new policies on you. Over the past 20
years I've seen many a favorite applications vendor go downhill after
being bought out.

I doubt very seriously whether Apple is going to be "bought out"
anytime soon, my friend.

Apples are very pretty machines, but it makes no sense to spend a lot of
extra money on a Ferrari when a Chevy will get me around just fine.

The Apple iMac is NOT what I would call a "ferrari". Rather, I would
call it a "run-of-the-mill Chevy". Entry level is ~$1100. But an
entry-level Intel iMac is configured MUCH better than an entry-level
Dell or HP. The price is fair for what you get.

$2195? <gag>

Compare that with the $3000 one would pay for an equally-configured
Dell, my friend.

I've no intention of ever using another Microsoft OS after XP is gone, so
Vista compatability isn't an issue to me.

Then use Linux or some other form of Unix.
Or, use DR-DOS 7.1

My less-expensive Wintel notebook does more than I need.

Then you have all you need. And that's what counts.

However, YOU aren't the only one posting in this thread, are you?

==

Donald L. McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
==========================================================

 

[arachnid]

When you buy a new Apple, the price of the OS is not factored in.

Where does Apple get the money to develop OS-X? Do you buy it separately
from the hardware?

For all intents and purposes, it is "free". But it MUST be installed
(at the current time) if you want to dual boot with XP using Apple's
Boot Camp Assistant, since Apples do not use a BIOS, they use an EFI
partition. As far as I know, Windows does not use EFI partitions at
this time.

It looks like BIOS is almost an outdated concept, at least as a go-between
to help the OS and the hardware speak to each other. About the only
purpose it serves now is to set motherboard options and boot the OS.

I doubt very seriously whether Apple is going to be "bought out" anytime
soon, my friend.

Buyouts happen all the time. Apple would be pocket change for some of the
corporate behemoths out there. You just never know what will happen in
tech.

Also, like many, I'm of the opinion that the only reason Apple still
exists is that Microsoft needs a token competitor to show to the courts in
antitrust cases.

Compare that with the $3000 one would pay for an equally-configured
Dell, my friend.

Can't say what the very latest prices are, but every time I've compared
Macs in the past they've run up to four times the price of equivalent
machines in the same store. When I bought it my current notebook was 1/3
the price of a Mac having equivalent features. The Mac was undeniably
prettier and probably better-built. However, I don't care about looks, and
at the rate technology is changing this machine will be obsolete long
before it wears out.

Then use Linux or some other form of Unix.

Exactly. I've been using Linux and FreeBSD for years and still do most of
my work in them. For a while there I needed Windows for GPS/mapping and
then once Windows was booted I started using other Windows programs.
However, WGA made me so mad I went out and bought a dashmount GPS. Windows
is entirely optional now.

However, YOU aren't the only one posting in this thread, are you?

If I were, I wouldn't still be here. )