OEM Clarification - No BS

[fedway guy]

Folks, a lot of people want to know the real scoop on the difference
between OEM and retail versions of Vista. There is a huge price
difference between the two. Here's the deal. I speak from experience
only, and I'm not associated with Microsoft except they get a lot of
money from me every year.

Prior to the release of Vista, Microsoft required the buyer to also
purchase a piece of internal hardware like a hard disk, motherboard,
or CPU to qualify for the purchase. I read where a mail order outfit
would send along some case screws, drive cables or some other useless
internal hardware crap to make the qualification.

Well, with Vista, it's no longer required. ANYONE can purchase the
OEM copy of Vista. There's only one type of OEM and that's the
complete full install disk and not an upgrade.

The only difference between the two versions (OEM vs Retail) is the
support from Micro$oft which isn't free after so many calls, and the
now pretty useless plastic box.

The OEM version comes on a DVD with very little documentation. I've
had OEM versions of other Windows versions that only came with a disk
and activation code and sticker.

Who needs those cardboard boxes with one disk inside and a few slips
of paper? DOS used to come with a complete manual of commands, etc.

When you activate any version of Vista, some hardware data from your
computer is also sent along. This is basically a fingerprint of your
machine and if that fingerprint changes to a certain level, you will
be prompted to call Bhopal India and explain yourself. All they
really want to know is why are you reinstalling Vista (I changed my
Video Card, or hard disk, etc, or had a crash), and if you are
installing it on more than one computer. THAT'S ALL FOLKS. I've
never heard of anyone being denied reactivation unless they said they
were running the software on more than one machine.

The OEM version is supposed to be installed on a computer that is
custom built by ANYONE. Dell and other manufacturers buy bulk
licenses so they can brand their restore disks with Vista. They may
or may not change some driver information pertaining to the machine
they are installing the OS on. For the most part you cannot use one
of those disks to install Vista on another computer. They were custom
made for those machines only.

So, if you go out and buy the OEM version of Vista, you will save
about fifty bucks or more. Take half of that savings and buy a GOOD
book on Vista at a bookstore. No matter what your computer expertise,
you need a good book. NOBODY knows that much about Vista that they can
use it without documentation.

Microsoft quit packaging documentation with their Operating System a
long time ago. Instead, they publish a rather thick (about 3-4") book
on it and price it at around $49.95. EVERTHING you need to know about
the Operating System is in that book, unless you are a developer and
then you probably belong to one of the expensive groups Microsoft has
for them.

BOTTOM LINE AND NO BS:
No support from Microsoft at all, period, nada, zilch.
No pretty plastic box to look at.
EVERYTHING the retail version has.
It's better to do a clean install anyway, and you get the full
version.

Now go out and buy it, use it, and come here with your support
questions. Oh, and don't forget to buy a good book. Stay away from
the Vista for Dummies book. It's only good to get you started and
doesn't explain details like privileges and permissions, something I'm
still trying to figure out.

 

[Lang Murphy]

Good post. Only comment I have that may be contrary to your post is that I
believe, and I don't think I'm alone in this, that Vista's help system is
much improved over XP's and one may actually be able to get through the
transition period with Vista help alone. If one is willing to embark on the
adventure of buying an OEM copy of Vista and doing a clean install, one
might be able to muddle through it all with Vista's online help. Jes' my two
cents. Thanks for the detailed post; appreciated.

Lang

 

[Rock]

Per the license agreement an OEM copy cannot be transferred to different
computer or sold unless the sale includes the original computer on which it
was installed.

 

[fedway guy]

Good post. Only comment I have that may be contrary to your post is that I
believe, and I don't think I'm alone in this, that Vista's help system is
much improved over XP's and one may actually be able to get through the
transition period with Vista help alone. If one is willing to embark on the
adventure of buying an OEM copy of Vista and doing a clean install, one
might be able to muddle through it all with Vista's online help. Jes' my two
cents. Thanks for the detailed post; appreciated.

Lang

My lengthy post... deleted to save space and so called bandwidth...

You may be correct. I did what I usually do when a new OS comes out.
I spent $53.00 on a VISTA book put out by.. who else but....
Microsoft. It appears to be complete and comes with a CD.

I haven't had time yet to go through it but I'm sure some answers to
questions I have are hidden in there somewhere.

I never did like software support. Unlike hardware support, the
person on the other end of the line isn't sitting in front of your
computer to see just exactly what the problem is, and depending upon
your expertise, you may not be able to explain enough detail. I
suppose you could just set up so they could access your system, but
hey, I don't trust anyone but myself on my machine.
Now hardware support is pretty straight forward and usually deals with
hard settings and drivers, and are pretty easy to fix.

 

[fedway guy]

Per the license agreement an OEM copy cannot be transferred to different
computer or sold unless the sale includes the original computer on which it
was installed.

I gotcha, HOWEVER, what is meant by 'different computer'?? Is the
swapping out of a new hard disk, video card, CPU, considered a new
computer? I think they need to clarify what they mean by 'new
computer' before they can legally enforce the license agreement. I've
been using OEM for many many years now without any problems, but then
I've never installed it on what I would consider a new machine. I've
swapped out most everything, including the case, but some of the parts
were kept. Like a new car. If there is one used part in it, it
cannot be considered as new. Kinda like the swill Packard Bell got
caught up in a few years ago that made them go under. They were
swapping out parts from returned machines and putting them in 'new'
machines sold at retail stores. They got caught. No more Packard
Bell computers. They were a POS anyway. Doubt any are still working.

 

[Rock]

I gotcha, HOWEVER, what is meant by 'different computer'?? Is the
swapping out of a new hard disk, video card, CPU, considered a new
computer? I think they need to clarify what they mean by 'new
computer' before they can legally enforce the license agreement. I've
been using OEM for many many years now without any problems, but then
I've never installed it on what I would consider a new machine. I've
swapped out most everything, including the case, but some of the parts
were kept. Like a new car. If there is one used part in it, it
cannot be considered as new. Kinda like the swill Packard Bell got
caught up in a few years ago that made them go under. They were
swapping out parts from returned machines and putting them in 'new'
machines sold at retail stores. They got caught. No more Packard
Bell computers. They were a POS anyway. Doubt any are still working.

There certainly is grey area here, but some things are clear. You own a
computer, you sell it, and buy a new one. I would call that a new computer
wrt the transferability issue.

 

[Donald McDaniel]

I gotcha, HOWEVER, what is meant by 'different computer'?? Is the
swapping out of a new hard disk, video card, CPU, considered a new
computer? I think they need to clarify what they mean by 'new
computer' before they can legally enforce the license agreement. I've
been using OEM for many many years now without any problems, but then
I've never installed it on what I would consider a new machine. I've
swapped out most everything, including the case, but some of the parts
were kept. Like a new car. If there is one used part in it, it
cannot be considered as new. Kinda like the swill Packard Bell got
caught up in a few years ago that made them go under. They were
swapping out parts from returned machines and putting them in 'new'
machines sold at retail stores. They got caught. No more Packard
Bell computers. They were a POS anyway. Doubt any are still working.

"Different computer" means primarily, "NOT another one you own, and NOT one
someone else owns."

Microsoft recently clarified this, when XP SP2 was released: They believe
that bottom line definition of "new computer" (for the purposes of adding or
removing hardware from a current machine) is "an optional motherboard
replacement". (NOTE the word "optional"). I tend to agree with this.

Whether this will hold up in court or not is still to be seen.

 

[John C. Iliff]

Great post...one point, how about the required 'Retail Version' to purchase
up to two additional copies of Home Premium @$50 ea? That still sounds like
a good deal to me, with several 'puters, and apparently not available in
buying the OEM?

John

 

[Rock]

Great post...one point, how about the required 'Retail Version' to
purchase up to two additional copies of Home Premium @$50 ea? That still
sounds like a good deal to me, with several 'puters, and apparently not
available in buying the OEM?

Correct. It has to be a retail, full or upgrade version for the Family
discount.

 

[Angry American]

Folks, a lot of people want to know the real scoop on the difference
between OEM and retail versions of Vista. There is a huge price
difference between the two. Here's the deal. I speak from experience
only, and I'm not associated with Microsoft except they get a lot of
money from me every year.

Prior to the release of Vista, Microsoft required the buyer to also
purchase a piece of internal hardware like a hard disk, motherboard,
or CPU to qualify for the purchase. I read where a mail order outfit
would send along some case screws, drive cables or some other useless
internal hardware crap to make the qualification.

Well, with Vista, it's no longer required. ANYONE can purchase the
OEM copy of Vista. There's only one type of OEM and that's the
complete full install disk and not an upgrade.

The only difference between the two versions (OEM vs Retail) is the
support from Micro$oft which isn't free after so many calls, and the
now pretty useless plastic box.

The OEM version comes on a DVD with very little documentation. I've
had OEM versions of other Windows versions that only came with a disk
and activation code and sticker.

Actually you can get it on CD or DVD. The DVD has all versions of the 32 bit
or 64bit OS you have purchased, and the key is what allows you to install
the version you purchased and not another version. If you purchase the 64bit
DVD then all 64 bit versions are on that DVD, but activation will only work
for the purchased version. And the OEM version comes in a plastic DVD box as
well, just not as fancy as the retail version.

 

[fedway guy]

"Different computer" means primarily, "NOT another one you own, and NOT one
someone else owns."

Microsoft recently clarified this, when XP SP2 was released: They believe
that bottom line definition of "new computer" (for the purposes of adding or
removing hardware from a current machine) is "an optional motherboard
replacement". (NOTE the word "optional"). I tend to agree with this.

Whether this will hold up in court or not is still to be seen.

I tend to agree with that, however, a computer isn't a computer
without a motherboard AND CPU. I would think if you changed your CPU
AND motherboard, you are in a NEW computer status.

I've changed out motherboards due to failures and pure upgrades and
never had a problem getting a new activation key. When I ran the new
activation of course, the new hardware showed up in the data sent
along with the activation. I've rarely however swapped out CPU's and
never figured I had a new system unless both were upgraded at the same
time. By then though, a new OS was on the horizon. I think the day I
get slapped for doing this is the day I finally go to Linux 100% and
say screw Microsoft. We have to put up with too damn many fixes due
to their code being weak in some areas and always under attack.

 

[fedway guy]

Great post...one point, how about the required 'Retail Version' to purchase
up to two additional copies of Home Premium @$50 ea? That still sounds like
a good deal to me, with several 'puters, and apparently not available in
buying the OEM?

John

John, John, John, please please fill me in on that. I haven't heard of
that yet. Sounds really great to me since I have another system I
need to upgrade and I could always use a spare copy.

 

[fedway guy]

Actually you can get it on CD or DVD. The DVD has all versions of the 32 bit
or 64bit OS you have purchased, and the key is what allows you to install
the version you purchased and not another version. If you purchase the 64bit
DVD then all 64 bit versions are on that DVD, but activation will only work
for the purchased version. And the OEM version comes in a plastic DVD box as
well, just not as fancy as the retail version.

But the box isn't half as large as the retail box. I bought Office
2007 and had a hell of a time opening the box until I took a minute to
read the read tab on the side of the box. Nevertheless, I took the CD
out and put it in a regular jewel box as I do all other disks.
I know I had the 64 bit OEM version, took it home and it didn't
install. The salesman picked it up for me and I didn't look at the
label. The store was kind enough to swap it for the 32bit version.
They think the same mistake was probably made by a few others as well.
Their display wasn't marked either way.

Thanks for the clarification though. I may sound a bit sure of myself
at times, but that comes from 23 years in the Army and 17 going postal
at the P&DC in Seattle. Now I'm 100% retired (not disabled), and
loving it.

 

[Angry American]

But the box isn't half as large as the retail box. I bought Office
2007 and had a hell of a time opening the box until I took a minute to
read the read tab on the side of the box. Nevertheless, I took the CD
out and put it in a regular jewel box as I do all other disks.
I know I had the 64 bit OEM version, took it home and it didn't
install. The salesman picked it up for me and I didn't look at the
label. The store was kind enough to swap it for the 32bit version.
They think the same mistake was probably made by a few others as well.
Their display wasn't marked either way.

Thanks for the clarification though. I may sound a bit sure of myself
at times, but that comes from 23 years in the Army and 17 going postal
at the P&DC in Seattle. Now I'm 100% retired (not disabled), and
loving it.

That is one major messup that MS made in the packageing of the OEM software,
once you remove the cardboard wrapper from the CD case, there is nothing on
the cd or the box, or literature that states it is the 64bit or 32bit
version. Even the cardboard outer shell does not state the difference very
clearly so it is an easy mistake to make. In my store I have had to resort
to labeling each copy as it comes into inventory so I can easily tell the
difference.

 

[Andreas Schulz]

Great post...one point, how about the required 'Retail Version' to purchase
up to two additional copies of Home Premium @$50 ea? That still sounds like
a good deal to me, with several 'puters, and apparently not available in
buying the OEM?

<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/familydiscount.mspx>

(all prices according to pricerunner - dunno if that's reliable)

- You will need Vista Ultimate (Retail or Upgrade) - starts at 250 USD
- You can get two copies of Vista Home Premium Upgrade at 50 USD (excluding taxes)
- plus the extra features of Ultimate for one of your PCs (who needs that at home?)
- plus two free service calls to MS for each PC (anyone requiring this?)
- plus the trouble with upgrade versions in case you have to install from scratch

OTOH:
- You can get Triple Packs of Vista Home Premium OEM starting at 350 USD

Just did the math - now make up your mind...

 

[PhilT]

Correct. It has to be a retail, full or upgrade version for the Family
discount.

what's the situatiuon with using OEM versions to upgrade from XP for example
can I put OEM Vista onto an XP machine (perhaps as dual boot) providing I
take on the support issue for the customer ? If not is it the same if I
upgrade the hardware to Vista spec at the same time a sort of system
re-build ?

The price difference for OEM in the UK is substantial - OEM Home Premium is
quite a bit less than retail Home Basic Upgrade.

Thanks

Phil

 

[fedway guy]

That is one major messup that MS made in the packageing of the OEM software,
once you remove the cardboard wrapper from the CD case, there is nothing on
the cd or the box, or literature that states it is the 64bit or 32bit
version. Even the cardboard outer shell does not state the difference very
clearly so it is an easy mistake to make. In my store I have had to resort
to labeling each copy as it comes into inventory so I can easily tell the
difference.

The only place I saw 64bit and 32bit was in the bold description at
the top of the package. Very easy to miss. I think other OEM stores
will do the same thing you are doing. At least put a new sticker on
them. Even though you opened the package, you can still return it for
the version you need. The first 64bit package I got had been opened
as the seals on both ends were broken. It didn't matter that much to
me at the time as long as everything else was there and there were no
marks on the DVD. The store was very kind in allowing me to return it
for the 32 bit version.

 

[John C. Iliff]

Go to the Vista website, and search for 'Family Offer'...sorry, didn't write
down the
URL. You MUST have the RETAIL boxed version of Ultimate, Upgrade or Full,
NOT the downloaded version, and NOT OEM version. Plug in your serial number
for your Vista Ultimate, and you can purchase one or two Vista Home Premium
for
$50 ea. They don't send you another disc, just another serial number for
Home
Premium. I purchased Ultimate from www.newegg.com because I WANT the
Ultimate
version for my home use. You will then install the Premium version on
another
computer, using the original Ultimate disc, but inserting the Microsoft
supplied
serial number you just purchased.

 

[Rock]

what's the situatiuon with using OEM versions to upgrade from XP for
example can I put OEM Vista onto an XP machine (perhaps as dual boot)
providing I take on the support issue for the customer ? If not is it the
same if I upgrade the hardware to Vista spec at the same time a sort of
system re-build ?

The price difference for OEM in the UK is substantial - OEM Home Premium
is quite a bit less than retail Home Basic Upgrade.

An OEM version cannot do an upgrade, only a custom install. Yes you can
dual boot XP and Vista OEM. Even with an upgrade version of Vista you
cannot, per the license, have both the qualifying OS, in this case XP, and
the Vista upgrade installed at the same time. It's one or the other. In
other words the XP license is subsumed into the Vista license when an
upgrade is used for the time that Vista is installed. Remove Vista and the
XP license can be reused in accordance with the license agreement about it's
use, i.e. OEM v. retail.

 

[newsnet]

AnOEMversion cannot do an upgrade, only a custom install. Yes you can
dual boot XP and VistaOEM. Even with an upgrade version of Vista you
cannot, per the license, have both the qualifying OS, in this case XP, and
the Vista upgrade installed at the same time.

OK, maybe I should have been more careful with the language - is it OK
to modify a PC to run Vista by providing dual boot Vista OEM and
previous XP version.

In other words its the PC that's being upgraded to have Vista as an OS
option rather than an upgrade of the existing OS.

From what you said I see no licensing issue with this.

Phil