O.T. Backup suggestions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mark Twain
  • Start date Start date
M

Mark Twain

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, SuperAntiSpware, Malwarebytes, Avast,
Windows Defender and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have a

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 with XP, SP3, with Spywareblaster,
Avast, Malwarebytes, SuperAntiSpware and Windows firewall.
(Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD 160Gb)
System type : 32-bit operating system

I have a Seagate 1(TB) external HD and I would like to
set it up for backups for both computers where I can have
system image backups (like Sytem Restore) vs incremental.
I live on a fixed marginal income so if possible I would
prefer a freeware version.

Would Macrium be a good choice for this?

Thanks,
Robert
 
Mark Twain said:
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, SuperAntiSpware, Malwarebytes, Avast,
Windows Defender and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have a

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 with XP, SP3, with Spywareblaster,
Avast, Malwarebytes, SuperAntiSpware and Windows firewall.
(Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD 160Gb)
System type : 32-bit operating system

I have a Seagate 1(TB) external HD and I would like to
set it up for backups for both computers where I can have
system image backups (like Sytem Restore) vs incremental.
I live on a fixed marginal income so if possible I would
prefer a freeware version.

Would Macrium be a good choice for this?

Thanks,
Robert

Seagate already has a free version of Acronis True Image on their
website, or did. Why not use that?
 
Mark said:
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, SuperAntiSpware, Malwarebytes, Avast,
Windows Defender and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have a

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 with XP, SP3, with Spywareblaster,
Avast, Malwarebytes, SuperAntiSpware and Windows firewall.
(Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD 160Gb)
System type : 32-bit operating system

I have a Seagate 1(TB) external HD and I would like to
set it up for backups for both computers where I can have
system image backups (like Sytem Restore) vs incremental.
I live on a fixed marginal income so if possible I would
prefer a freeware version.

Would Macrium be a good choice for this?

Thanks,
Robert

Macrium is a fine product.

1) Use the green "Download Now" button.

http://download.cnet.com/Macrium-Reflect-Free/3000-2242_4-10845728.html?part=dl-&subj=dl&tag=button

The file downloaded will be "reflectdl.exe". 2,292,720 bytes.

There is apparently no tool bar inside that.

2) Run the program by double clicking.

Accept the defaults (it downloads Macrium, around 40MB,
plus a WAIK kit file of some sort from Microsoft as a
100MB+ file). It'll take a couple minutes to download.
The WAIK kit is used to make a nice boot CD.

At this point, you could discard the 2MB reflectdl.exe program,
and keep the other two files (total 140MB+ or so).

3) Install the 140MB+ of software, and immediately afterwards, make
the recovery CD. The recovery CD is what you use, if
your primary drive (the one you made the backup image of)
has been erased, or replaced with a new hard drive.
If your computer has no OS, the recovery CD is what you boot,
to get to the Reflect control screen, to do the recovery.

4) The tool is relatively easy to use and understand.

For backups, you want the "Image" function, not "Clone".
The entire hard drive, ends up stored in a single .mrimg file.
The file should be stored on an NTFS partition, on your
external drive.

HTH,
Paul
 
Macrium is a fine product.

1) Use the green "Download Now" button.

http://download.cnet.com/Macrium-Reflect-Free/3000-2242_4-10845728.html?part=dl-&subj=dl&tag=button

The file downloaded will be "reflectdl.exe". 2,292,720 bytes.

There is apparently no tool bar inside that.

2) Run the program by double clicking.

Accept the defaults (it downloads Macrium, around 40MB,
plus a WAIK kit file of some sort from Microsoft as a
100MB+ file). It'll take a couple minutes to download.
The WAIK kit is used to make a nice boot CD.

At this point, you could discard the 2MB reflectdl.exe program,
and keep the other two files (total 140MB+ or so).

3) Install the 140MB+ of software, and immediately afterwards, make
the recovery CD. The recovery CD is what you use, if
your primary drive (the one you made the backup image of)
has been erased, or replaced with a new hard drive.
If your computer has no OS, the recovery CD is what you boot,
to get to the Reflect control screen, to do the recovery.

4) The tool is relatively easy to use and understand.

For backups, you want the "Image" function, not "Clone".
The entire hard drive, ends up stored in a single .mrimg file.
The file should be stored on an NTFS partition, on your
external drive.

HTH,
Paul

Paul

You mentioned to me to get this a few days ago. The site you posted
kept repeating itself and never got to the download. Probably one of
those damn scripts that wont work on an older browser. After 6 trys and
a half hour wasted, I found it elsewhere, but it's only 42.8 megs. I
managed to DL that on dialup.

The filename is 5.2.6339_reflect_setup_free_x86.exe. I installed it and
played with it a little. I backed up my D: partition to F: (only 2
gigs). It created a real bizarre filename on F:, and turned that into a
another drive letter (P:). I dont know about this method????? I'd
rather SEE all the files, and I really dont want more drive letters.

It would not install on Win98 either.

I dont recall where I DL'd it, and dont know if it's the latest version,
but it didn't install any toolbars or junk. I have to ask why the one
you suggested is so huge? I'll play with it soem more, and maybe there
is another backup method in it, but wont use any program that does not
allow me direct access to the raw files. If Windows crashes, I'm
screwed if the backup is compressed into one file.Having to completely
reinstall Windows just to restore one file that I may have deleted and
caused XP to crash, is senseless, if you ask me. i'd rather just copy
by hand, or use Xxcopy. I know you cant copy the Windows folder
manually, because the system files stop the copy process, but I can copy
the entire remainder of the partitions. Or I can boot to linux and copy
all of the windows folder.
 
Paul

You mentioned to me to get this a few days ago. The site you posted
kept repeating itself and never got to the download. Probably one of
those damn scripts that wont work on an older browser. After 6 trys and
a half hour wasted, I found it elsewhere, but it's only 42.8 megs. I
managed to DL that on dialup.

The filename is 5.2.6339_reflect_setup_free_x86.exe. I installed it and
played with it a little. I backed up my D: partition to F: (only 2
gigs). It created a real bizarre filename on F:, and turned that into a
another drive letter (P:). I dont know about this method????? I'd
rather SEE all the files, and I really dont want more drive letters.

It would not install on Win98 either.

I dont recall where I DL'd it, and dont know if it's the latest version,
but it didn't install any toolbars or junk. I have to ask why the one
you suggested is so huge? I'll play with it soem more, and maybe there
is another backup method in it, but wont use any program that does not
allow me direct access to the raw files. If Windows crashes, I'm
screwed if the backup is compressed into one file.Having to completely
reinstall Windows just to restore one file that I may have deleted and
caused XP to crash, is senseless, if you ask me. i'd rather just copy
by hand, or use Xxcopy. I know you cant copy the Windows folder
manually, because the system files stop the copy process, but I can copy
the entire remainder of the partitions. Or I can boot to linux and copy
all of the windows folder.

The modern version of Macrium, has two recovery disks.

42MB Macrium download ==> 16MB Linux boot appliance
100MB WAIK download ==> Makes a WinPE boot appliance

If you want, you can download just the first one, and make
yourself the Linux disk. But I consider the WinPE option to
be the better one. If a person isn't on dialup, I recommend
accepting the default download settings, which is to download
142MB worth of stuff.

*******

No, it won't run on Win98. If it did, it would be relegated
to copying every sector. Reflect Free uses VSS to image the
disk, and it uses Intelligent Sector Copy. It only copies
the sectors with data on them. And VSS allows copying the
C: drive, without shutting down the OS. On Windows 98, without
a VSS subsystem, you'd have to shut down Windows to be able
to copy C: without incident.

The .mrimg file extension, is what an image should be recorded with.
An entire hard drive, with four partitions, can be recorded inside
a single large .mrimg file. On restoration, the Macrium screen
allows you to select any individual partition you might want,
so you don't have to restore everything.

I use it mainly for emergency recovery, where I want
to put a partition back in a state it was in a week ago.
I don't normally go looking for just one file.

*******

In Macrium, under Restore : Explore Image, you can open
an .mrimg file and see all the files individually. Give
that a try, and maybe you can copy just the one file out
of the "explorer-like" interface.

I haven't even tried all the options in there :-)

Macrium also allows converting a .mrimg into a .vhd,
and .vhd can be mounted natively in Windows 8. So in
Windows 8, the backup you made in Macrium, can even be
mounted as if you were connecting a regular hard
drive to the computer. The .vhd format is very
convenient, which is why Macrium has an Export option
for it. In WinXP, you can install VPC2007, and in a
virtual machine, open a .vhd file and look at the
files in there. There are a ton of ways to examine
or extract stuff from a Macrium backup.

There is a vhdmount utility for WinXP, but it's apparently
not on my regular usage list. I have too many other
ways to do it.

Paul
 
The modern version of Macrium, has two recovery disks.

42MB Macrium download ==> 16MB Linux boot appliance
100MB WAIK download ==> Makes a WinPE boot appliance

If you want, you can download just the first one, and make
yourself the Linux disk. But I consider the WinPE option to
be the better one. If a person isn't on dialup, I recommend
accepting the default download settings, which is to download
142MB worth of stuff.

*******

No, it won't run on Win98. If it did, it would be relegated
to copying every sector. Reflect Free uses VSS to image the
disk, and it uses Intelligent Sector Copy. It only copies
the sectors with data on them. And VSS allows copying the
C: drive, without shutting down the OS. On Windows 98, without
a VSS subsystem, you'd have to shut down Windows to be able
to copy C: without incident.

The .mrimg file extension, is what an image should be recorded with.
An entire hard drive, with four partitions, can be recorded inside
a single large .mrimg file. On restoration, the Macrium screen
allows you to select any individual partition you might want,
so you don't have to restore everything.

I use it mainly for emergency recovery, where I want
to put a partition back in a state it was in a week ago.
I don't normally go looking for just one file.

*******

In Macrium, under Restore : Explore Image, you can open
an .mrimg file and see all the files individually. Give
that a try, and maybe you can copy just the one file out
of the "explorer-like" interface.

I haven't even tried all the options in there :-)

Macrium also allows converting a .mrimg into a .vhd,
and .vhd can be mounted natively in Windows 8. So in
Windows 8, the backup you made in Macrium, can even be
mounted as if you were connecting a regular hard
drive to the computer. The .vhd format is very
convenient, which is why Macrium has an Export option
for it. In WinXP, you can install VPC2007, and in a
virtual machine, open a .vhd file and look at the
files in there. There are a ton of ways to examine
or extract stuff from a Macrium backup.

There is a vhdmount utility for WinXP, but it's apparently
not on my regular usage list. I have too many other
ways to do it.

Paul


I thought it had a linus look to it, and I have little linux knowledge.
I wonder how old this one is that I have?

It sounds like it does a lot, and I'll play around with it some more,
but at the moment, I think it's more than I need. I think it's easier
to just clone the boot partition and just copy the storage partitions to
my external HD. I still prefer having each file in it's raw form. I
have needed to restore individual files quite a few times, and I just
copy them back. Every so often I delete some important file. Just last
week, I deleted a system file from the Docs and Sets folder on XP. It
warned me, but I was determined to remove that file because I thought it
was causing a problem. My backup restored it and all is fine.

Thanks for the info.
 
I thought it had a linus look to it, and I have little linux knowledge.
I wonder how old this one is that I have?

It sounds like it does a lot, and I'll play around with it some more,
but at the moment, I think it's more than I need. I think it's easier
to just clone the boot partition and just copy the storage partitions to
my external HD. I still prefer having each file in it's raw form. I
have needed to restore individual files quite a few times, and I just
copy them back. Every so often I delete some important file. Just last
week, I deleted a system file from the Docs and Sets folder on XP. It
warned me, but I was determined to remove that file because I thought it
was causing a problem. My backup restored it and all is fine.

Thanks for the info.

The "Linux" in the Macrium Recovery CD is not exposed as such.
It uses Linux engine components, but once the thing has booted,
only one program runs and that is Macrium. All you see is
Macrium controls and the same interface as you see in the
installed Windows one. You have no access to the Linux
underneath whatsoever. You can't run a package manager
in there, or even a Terminal.

It's the same idea with the WinPE edition of Recovery CD. It's a
means of booting the computer, when no working hard drive is
present. So you can restore from a backup .mrimg on the external
drive, to a new and blank hard drive connected inside the computer.

The Linux CD is not like Ubuntu. You can't run any of 15,000 different
programs in it. Only one program runs and it starts right away.
It's like the Macrium program is running the computer, as near
as the user can determine.

With the WinPE edition, you have the option of doing restores
from a network share. But that requires including a driver for
the NIC, and that's a disadvantage if you wanted to do that.
No matter which of the CDs you use (Linux or WinPE one), the
USB connected hard drive source of files always works. The
WinPE one adds the ability to go to your NAS and get the .mrimg
file, but depending on the NIC the motherboard uses, you might have
to include files for a NIC driver. Perhaps that step is easier
on the paid version of Macrium (as the other versions of
Macrium must have *some* feature that's not on the free one - the
free one is pretty complete).

*******

There are backup programs coming out of the woodwork, like
Nero BackItUp 2014 is free right now.

http://ftp22.nero.com/NeroBackItUp/Nero_BackItUp2014-15.0.02900_free.exe

That doesn't mean it's good though.

Since the download is 50MB, but the user manual is 2MB, you
could start with the PDF and see if it does what you want.

http://ftp6.nero.com/user_guides/nero2014/backitup/NeroBackItUp_en-US.pdf

*******

On WinXP, there is NTBackup built into the OS. For restoration,
you could do a "roll your own" by making a BartPE disc and
using an NTBackup 5 plugin for it. There is also a tool
that will convert an NTBackup file into a TAR file, if
you needed another access mechanism to get at the files.
But this would be a "hard core, I'm bored" type solutions.

Picture of BartPE booted, and the NTbackup plugin is running.

http://oi42.tinypic.com/15n1vz8.jpg

I guess I didn't have a .bkf file to try in it. I think
only Restore works in there (suitable for a bare metal restore).
The reason backup doesn't work with the disc I made, is there
is no VSS support in that BartPE setup. Although it's possible
some additional screwing around could add it (for people who
are bored and need a challenge). Lots of stuff is possible
with Bart, with an infinite amount of work.

Paul
 
The "Linux" in the Macrium Recovery CD is not exposed as such.
It uses Linux engine components, but once the thing has booted,
only one program runs and that is Macrium. All you see is
Macrium controls and the same interface as you see in the
installed Windows one. You have no access to the Linux
underneath whatsoever. You can't run a package manager
in there, or even a Terminal.

It's the same idea with the WinPE edition of Recovery CD. It's a
means of booting the computer, when no working hard drive is
present. So you can restore from a backup .mrimg on the external
drive, to a new and blank hard drive connected inside the computer.

The Linux CD is not like Ubuntu. You can't run any of 15,000 different
programs in it. Only one program runs and it starts right away.
It's like the Macrium program is running the computer, as near
as the user can determine.

I wonder if this is similar to the Puppy Linux which runs under Windows.
It appears this is something fairly new. That's what I've been playing
around with. The download is a .EXE file. Just click on it from XP and
it is installed to the harddrive or a flash drive, or whereever you want
it. It creates a dual boot file and installs the Grub on the harddrive.
Its installed right on my C: drive. It dont need its own partition or
format. It runs right out of the box, or it can store a save file with
your own settings, and by downloading .PET files, you just click on them
and they are added to the installation.

Installing it is a piece of cake. Using it has been a real challenge
for someone who has no idea about linux (which is me). But it has
familar programs such as Seamonkey (if I could connect to the internet),
and plays music and videos right out of the box. There is a paint
program which I kind of like, and it has a lot of office type stuff too.
I used it to copy the Windows XP folder and the docs and setts folder
(the 2 that cant copy directly), to my USB harddrive. Until now, I
could never even get linux to install. I like this one, and it dont
mess up windows at all. In fact I uninstalled it, adn reinstalled it
and it was the same as installing or removing any program. The whole
thing only uses about 720 megs of drive space.

What I dont understand is where the extra programs go???? I installed
Foxit.PET. It's installed, but I sure dont know where the program files
are? I guess that's a mystery.

It installs from Win98 too, which was a surprise.
I know this is off topic, but it seems like what you said abotu Macrium
could mean it's running from a similar engine, but without the programs.
 
AAH said:
I have version 8 of Acronis.
I am interested in the free version of Acronis you mensioned that
as at Seagate site. Do I have their stuff to download that.
Can you please the URL to download?

Just go to the Seagate download site and look for DiscWizard. It only works if
it finds a Seagate or Maxtor drive on your system.
 
Hello Paul,

I haven't tried this as yet but am I wrong
in assuming that this creates a one time
back-up (incremental ?)CD versus multiple system
images dates?

I also appreciate everyone input and suggestions
and discourse with Paul as it helps me understand
it better.


Robert
 
p.s.

Oh I get it ,, it makes a CD AND it stores
my backup on my external HD using the 'Image'
function.
 
Mark Twain said:
Hello Paul,

I haven't tried this as yet but am I wrong
in assuming that this creates a one time
back-up (incremental ?)CD versus multiple system
images dates?

I also appreciate everyone input and suggestions
and discourse with Paul as it helps me understand
it better.

CD? I thought you wanted to use a Seagate 1TB external HD as a backup
drive?

Anyway incremental backups only adds the files that has changed since
the last backup. And it is usually much faster (Paragon incremental
actually takes longer in my experience). Plus it is smaller than the
last full backup (assuming most files doesn't change).
 
Mark said:
Hello Paul,

I haven't tried this as yet but am I wrong
in assuming that this creates a one time
back-up (incremental ?)CD versus multiple system
images dates?

I also appreciate everyone input and suggestions
and discourse with Paul as it helps me understand
it better.


Robert

When Macrium makes an image backup, the output
is a single file, and it is complete. It's
an imaging utility.

In Macrium, the Restore : Explore option, allows
the backup image you made, to be mounted like it
was a disk partition. And then you can copy
individual files out of it.

The Macrium concept, would be suitable for a person
who has just re-installed their OS, and wants to keep
a "clean copy" of C: for restoration later. Restoring that
C: would wipe out personal files, so put your personal files
on the old C: some place safe, before doing the restore.

If you keep incrementals or differentials, it implies
a desire to do backups stretching over a long interval
of time, and being able to go back in time to any
arbitrary point. When I do imaging, it's because I have
one specific point I have in mind, as the point I'm
going back to. I don't chase file changes on a day by day
basis, because I'm not doing "work" on this computer :-)

*******

If you want some other kind of backup, look elsewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_backup

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_backup_software

There's a free one here, and some of these kinds aren't
in the Wikipedia list. The free one here does
incrementals.

http://www.easeus.com/backup-software/

"Todo Backup Free"

As an "imaging" guy, I don't do file by file backups.
As long as I have enough disk space for them, I'm happy.

HTH,
Paul
 
Mark said:
p.s.

Oh I get it ,, it makes a CD AND it stores
my backup on my external HD using the 'Image'
function.

Exactly.

The CD is for booting (when your internal hard drive
is empty, and there is nothing to boot the computer with).

The external hard drive stores the actual backup, which
is an image.

*******

Backup programs can be extremely picky.

Kinds of locations:

1) DVD - programs seem to like this as an option,
even if this is not my favorite option.

2) External hard drive - preferred, disconnect when not in usage
(for safety, and for long drive life).

3) USB key - some programs will absolutely refuse to use one!
A USB flash key is not considered to be the same as
a hard drive, by a backup program.

4) NAS or file sharing - again, some programs refuse to do this,
unless you buy their "expensive" version.
Using file sharing implies you are an
"IT person" or something :-)

Paul
 
In message <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]>
writes:
[]
When Macrium makes an image backup, the output
is a single file, and it is complete. It's
an imaging utility. []
As an "imaging" guy, I don't do file by file backups.
As long as I have enough disk space for them, I'm happy.

HTH,
Paul

I'm a bit of both. I can see the advantage of copying everything, but
like casey.o I would rather be able to access - read-only is fine, in
fact probably preferable for safety - individual files _in_ the copy,
_without_ needing special software to do so (i. e. from Windows
Explorer). (For "copy" insert other terms as appropriate - see next
paragraph.)

I can see the need for _some_ special handling, to cover things like
system files, boot sectors, and all that sort of thing
(those-are/that-is needed to be able to restore to a dead system, and
_can't_ just be copied, not from a running system). But it'd be nice if
everything _except_ the things that _need_ to be covered by that could
still be accessed, _without_ having to load/boot/mount/whatever, the
software/whatever that made the backup/image/copy/whatever.

Sorry about all the slashes and whatevers; I hope what I mean can be
seen through the fog.
 
In message <[email protected]>, Bill in Co
John, with Acronis True Image Home, in Windows Explorer you *can* access
individual files in the backup image, and copy them. I've found that useful
on some occasions, as you've implied. The only trouble with Acronis (IMHO)
is, as with SO many other programs, the newer versions have become bloated.
But I regularly use it to make a complete image backup of my system, and I
keep several generational copies "just in case" I notice some issues later
on.
I guess I don't like the idea of "the backup image" at all, other than
for things like restoring the boot sector and so on.

When you say you can access files "in" the backup image with just
Windows Explorer, what is it? Just a copy? A .zip file?
 
In message <[email protected]>, Bill in Co
Then in windows explorer, when you click on this tib image "file", it
expands into C: and all its subdirectories, so you can see (and copy, if
desired) any of the folders and files within that backup image. (But you
can't modify the files or folders inside the image, of course).
Ah, so in effect it _is_ just like a .zip file, to the extent that
Windows Explorer intrinsically has the ability to look inside it (though
not modify), without needing any extra software.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

# 10^-12 boos = 1 picoboo # 2*10^3 mockingbirds = 2 kilo mockingbird
# 10^21 piccolos = 1 gigolo # 10^12 microphones = 1 megaphone
# 10**9 questions = 1 gigawhat
 
Per Bill in Co:
But is that a true partition backup program, or just a backup of selected
files?

I guess some folks might like the latter approach (of just being able to
back up some selected files or folders), but it sure won't work for me,
since it's not a system backup, which I definitely want and use. :-)

I'd say that there are two distinct functions there:

- System Backup/Recovery

- Data Backup/Restore.


For the system, you don't want to be imaging a system every N days.
Instead, you want to image the system when you know (or, at least, are
pretty sure...) that is "Good" - i.e. uninfected by malware and working
properly. When you recover your system, you want to recover from a
"Good" system.... not from some daily backup that may have the same
problems that made you recover in the first place.

For data, you want to be backing up as often as possible. Once a day,
multiple times per day... whatever suites. And when you restore data
you want the option of picking and choosing which version of a given
file (assuming just one file needs restoring) gets restored. For a
global restore (as in disk drive failure) you want to restore all data
as it was on the last backup.

For the system, that means an imaging utility.

For data that means either a file copy utility or a "real" backup
utility that keeps all the backed up files in a database.

Personally, I've been using the first in the form of SecondCopy but
searching for the second but unable to find one that works for me. The
ability to conveniently review all copies of a given file and pick the
one I want is the sticking point.
 
Per Bill in Co:
I'd agree about the "every N days" thing. But for me what happens is I may
add some new software, and if I like it, will soon create a newer image
backup.

What I do is keep a spreadsheet listing any and all changes made since
the last image.

Then, when it's time to re-image:

- I restore from the last "Good" image,

- I apply all the changes

- I make another "Good" image containing those changes and save
it, starting a new tab on my spreadsheet for the next round of
changes.

It takes more time, but I'm paranoid about having acquired hidden
malware since taking the last image and this pretty much gets around
that.
 
Back
Top