new Tom's Hardware printer test: Canon vs HP

  • Thread starter Thread starter Panos Stokas
  • Start date Start date
Since usually the manufacturers contract private companies to do their
yield ratings, or do them internally, There is , I believe still not an
absolute agreed upon formula, although I believe they are working on
something.

In general, they are supposed to use a 5% per color for rating yield,
but some companies use 5% of the "usually margined" printed area, rather
than the whole page, and there has been disagreement as to what a
"usually margined area' is. Is it 1" all around, 1.5" 2" ???

However, having said this, HP's newest line of printers is using a new
system to recirculate the inks and extract air, rather than dumping it
into the waste ink pads, so the ink gets used rather than in the "dump".

Considering how much ink is normally wasted on cleanings, this could
make a considerable difference. Also, if high color density inks are
used, with a very small dot, the ink can go a lot further.

Also, how the drivers distribute the ink amounts, especially, the low
colorant loaded inks, can make a huge difference. If a lot of low
colorant load inks get used when smaller dots of high colorant ink could
do, you will drain more ink. If the printer uses all colors to make
darker browns, greys and blacks, again more ink is used.

So, there is no simple answer. They need to come up with a standard
image that all manufacturers use, and the same level of quality is used.

The same goes for printing speed. HP, as just one example, quotes a 4 x
6" color photo print as taking 14 seconds from their 8250. But that's
for an image in draft mode, and that's starting with image number two,
the first image takes 22 seconds longer, due to driver and paper
loading. The draft image quality was considered a "lousy print" by
Popular Photography's reviewer. Using a better quality, a 4x6"
borderless print takes just over one minute (with a border takes about
35 minutes in medium mode), still very fast, and apparently a good image
quality, but hardly 14 seconds. I'm not singling out HP by the way, it
just happens to be the last review I read, as all the manufacturers do
the same thing.

So, caveat emptor is still the case with all of this until the industry
gets the hint that clients want honest and consistent information across
the board.

Art
 
zakezuke said:
Good question... in this case both knightcrawler and my self would have
gotten a pdf download from sites i'll site later in this responce.

I know knightcrawler keeps them on his site somewhere
http://pixma.webpal.info/

He and I would have gotten them from here
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/
http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/

Another resource for regular joes is to hunt around e-bay and there is
a gent who posts here from time to time selling manuals on CD-rom.
Click to expand...

I have used www.manuals4you.com many times, excellent service, but you have to
pay which is fair enough. However the value for money is very good, you get
dozens of manuals on each CD and most manufacturers and models are available.
There is a Russian site that sells manuals also but I have no opinion about
their service or quality since I have never used them.
BTW fixyourownprinter.com no longer have free manuals available for bandwidth
reasons.
Tony
 
I just finished printing ~ 50 pages of pure black starting from almost full
OEM BCI-3e on ip4000R. Single spaced Times at 10 pt plus some
equations. Judging from the ink height, that used up about 25% of the
capacity.
Click to expand...

And the capacity of the sponge is about 20%. So assuming 25ml we have
5ml sponge 20ml tank. You believe you used 25% of the reservoir so you
believe you've used 5ml for 50 pages, or 10ml/page.

Based on the 5% yield 500p assuming also 25ml... that's 20p/ml

What i'm not clear on is you say pure black.. 10pt font numbers and
quations. Is this basicly full pages packed to the gills with info or
are there signifigent margins and spacing.
 
And the capacity of the sponge is about 20%. So assuming 25ml we have
5ml sponge 20ml tank. You believe you used 25% of the reservoir so you
believe you've used 5ml for 50 pages, or 10ml/page.
Click to expand...

10 pages/ml, I'm sure you meant.
Based on the 5% yield 500p assuming also 25ml... that's 20p/ml

What i'm not clear on is you say pure black.. 10pt font numbers and
quations. Is this basicly full pages packed to the gills with info or
are there signifigent margins and spacing.
Click to expand...

It was pretty heavy but, I'd say, to the point that more realistically
reflects most people's idea of what "full text page" is.

I guess no matter what it boils down to an old rule of thumb "a full
rim on a cartridge" (give or take factor 2X).

DK
 
10 pages/ml, I'm sure you meant.
It was pretty heavy but, I'd say, to the point that more realistically
reflects most people's idea of what "full text page" is.

I guess no matter what it boils down to an old rule of thumb "a full
rim on a cartridge" (give or take factor 2X).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction.. i'm taking mussle relaxents and just
doubled the dose... while this would be a normal error for me i'm
erroring more normaly than normal.

Anyhow I'll have to top off my cartridges and do some hardcore
printing. On my road to recovery i'm learning Japanese and have lots
of things to print. I would do laser... but my laser is just heavy
enough that I should avoid moving it for at least another week. But my
unscientific evaluation of ink yields on the ip3000... the stuff I
typicaly print I tend to average one pack of paper per refill which
just so happens to be 500 sheets.
 
All of the below, and even ebay... you can buy many on line if you can't
find them at assorted web sites of other locations.

Art
 
zakezuke said:
And the capacity of the sponge is about 20%. So assuming 25ml we have
5ml sponge 20ml tank. You believe you used 25% of the reservoir so you
believe you've used 5ml for 50 pages, or 10ml/page.
Click to expand...

I think you lost a decimal there: .10ml/page, or one-tenth ml per page
or 1 ml per 10 pages. (I realize it's a typo, but I hought I would
correct it.)

Art
 
I'm not sure you should be operating "heavy" machines, let alone moving
them, while you are taking high doses of muscle relaxants ;-) Don't
they have warnings on those meds about that? ;-)

Art
 
Maybe I didn't express my point quite well: I am not asking Tom's
Hardware to test alternative inks, but I do ask them to specify whether
a printer can be easily refilled or not.
 
Very well. I shall post them my concerns... the main one being that
Tom's Hardware is changing from hardware enthusiasm to yet another
CNETsque consumer site.
 
I'm not sure you should be operating "heavy" machines, let alone moving
them, while you are taking high doses of muscle relaxants ;-) Don't
they have warnings on those meds about that? ;-)
Click to expand...

Yes, they do... "Warning, operating this color inkjet while taking
mussle relaxents may result in prolonged periods of blank stares at the
pretty colors".

I'm not moving the laser for a while.
 
Panos said:
Maybe I didn't express my point quite well: I am not asking Tom's
Hardware to test alternative inks, but I do ask them to specify whether
a printer can be easily refilled or not.
Click to expand...
THE MAJORITY PEOP[LE WHO BUY PRINTERS DO NOT GIVE A HOOT. THE MAJORITY
BY FAR OF PRINTER USER BUY OEM INK. SO WHY SHOULD THEY. A NON ISSUE
 
Measkite said... snipped per request

Given the fact that PCword at the very least wrote and artical on the
subject.. and this is your favorite mag... someone does indeed give a
*hoot*.

But the parent isn't talking about anysite, they are talking
tomshardware. a site of tweekers hackers and weirdos (no offence).
While I can not agree that it's practical to test two or three major
brands (Formulabs, Image Specalists, OCP), cartridge design and
refillability is something that I must concur should be a factor. You
your self said the people on here who refill are tweekers hackers and
weirdos... and tomshardware is or was for people who take soldering
irons, hammers, and hacksaws to their equipment. It's not for average
users but rather for people you've made it painfuly clear you have no
respect for.

Yours truly...

A man proud not to be respected by you.
 
zakezuke said:
Given the fact that PCword at the very least wrote and artical on the
subject.. and this is your favorite mag... someone does indeed give a
*hoot*.

But the parent isn't talking about anysite, they are talking
tomshardware. a site of tweekers hackers and weirdos (no offence).
While I can not agree that it's practical to test two or three major
brands (Formulabs, Image Specalists, OCP), cartridge design and
refillability is something that I must concur should be a factor. You
your self said the people on here who refill are tweekers hackers and
weirdos... and tomshardware is or was for people who take soldering
irons, hammers, and hacksaws to their equipment. It's not for average
users but rather for people you've made it painfuly clear you have no
respect for.

Yours truly...

A man proud not to be respected by you.
Click to expand...

Bugger
I really must see what I can do with a hammer and hacksaw to one of my elderly
non-working PC's, perhaps I can turn it into a printer!
Thank goodness for the tinkerers, they invented the wheel amongst other things,
things that set us apart from the animals and Measekite.
Seriously though, for clarification. Measekite has recently stated things like
"95% of all users use OEM inks".
Firstly that is an outrageous lie, not supported by market research nor by my
personal experience.
Secondly if it were true then it follows that he can go away and talk to
another newsgroup about a subject dear to his heart since if only 5% use
non-OEM inks there is virtually no reason for his crusade.
Tony
 
I really must see what I can do with a hammer and hacksaw to one of my elderly
non-working PC's, perhaps I can turn it into a printer!
Click to expand...

That is a streach... but what isn't is taking some of those older
rackmounts and cutting a ATX sized hole in them. Or remounting a baby
atx power supply in a full sized AT style container. I my self have
modified 1/8 of inch steel dec cases to accept AT style boards.
Seriously though, for clarification. Measekite has recently stated things like
"95% of all users use OEM inks"
Click to expand...

Even if that figure is accurate, which i'm willing to believe the
majority of printer users are using OEM... 5% is a significant market
share esp for such a young industry. Sure a minority but any figure
you can measure in terms of a percent for a market of 1 billion
units/year... that's no small potatoes. That's 50 million units sold
at about $5.00 (guessing) using products that in bulk cost under
$1.00/unit assuming recycling, perhaps $2.00 ish assuming not. so
we're talking a 250million dollar industry assuming measkite's number
is accurate... not huge but signifigent.

Numbers by http://www.freerecycling.com/... not the best resource but
quotable enough.
Firstly that is an outrageous lie, not supported by market research nor by my
personal experience
Click to expand...

Probally is a figure he pulled from his bum... but even so if he's
going to say aftermarket is at least a 250million dollar industry I say
let him. A small piece of that pie is a legit business.
 
zakezuke said:
Even if that figure is accurate, which i'm willing to believe the
majority of printer users are using OEM... 5% is a significant market
share esp for such a young industry. Sure a minority but any figure
you can measure in terms of a percent for a market of 1 billion
units/year... that's no small potatoes. That's 50 million units sold
at about $5.00 (guessing) using products that in bulk cost under
$1.00/unit assuming recycling, perhaps $2.00 ish assuming not. so
we're talking a 250million dollar industry assuming measkite's number
is accurate... not huge but signifigent.

Numbers by http://www.freerecycling.com/... not the best resource but
quotable enough.


Probally is a figure he pulled from his bum... but even so if he's
going to say aftermarket is at least a 250million dollar industry I say
let him. A small piece of that pie is a legit business.
Click to expand...

See http://www.rechargermag.com/news.asp?id=200511505
Just one source, others vary from 15% to 35%
Tony
 
zakezuke said:
That is a streach... but what isn't is taking some of those older
rackmounts and cutting a ATX sized hole in them. Or remounting a baby
atx power supply in a full sized AT style container. I my self have
modified 1/8 of inch steel dec cases to accept AT style boards.


Even if that figure is accurate, which i'm willing to believe the
majority of printer users are using OEM... 5% is a significant market
share esp for such a young industry. Sure a minority but any figure
you can measure in terms of a percent for a market of 1 billion
units/year... that's no small potatoes. That's 50 million units sold
at about $5.00 (guessing) using products that in bulk cost under
$1.00/unit assuming recycling, perhaps $2.00 ish assuming not. so
we're talking a 250million dollar industry assuming measkite's number
is accurate... not huge but signifigent.

Numbers by http://www.freerecycling.com/... not the best resource but
quotable enough.


Probally is a figure he pulled from his bum... but even so if he's
going to say aftermarket is at least a 250million dollar industry I say
let him. A small piece of that pie is a legit business.
Click to expand...

See http://www.rechargermag.com/news.asp?id=200511505, one of several cources.
Tony
 
Please consider how many companies out there sell overclocking tools
(cooling boxes etc) and how many sell ink. The later outnumber the
former by far.
 
WHO CARES ABOUT INK. YOU BUY A PRINTER AND YOU BUY THE REPLACEMENT
CARTS THE MFG RECOMMENDS. NOTHING IS MORE SIMPLE.

TOM'S HAS OUTGROWN THE OVERCLOCKING CROWD
 
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