R
RayLopez99
My point exactly. The boundary layer 'sticks you close to ground' automatically, like a hovercraft, or insect caught in water surface tension sort ofthing.
RL
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My point exactly. The boundary layer 'sticks you close to ground' automatically, like a hovercraft, or insect caught in water surface tension sort ofthing.
RL
R
RayLopez99
Drive #1: In use for 20 months, it's been absued a bit by a program
that gets a bit ugly in it's database handling. 99% of it's life is
left.
Drive #2: In use for only 2 months, a heavily used system drive. 100%
of it's life is left. (Obviously, there is a roundoff issue there.)
It replaced a smaller drive that was used for about a year and a half
and had IIRC 99% left when I swapped it out.
So you are an SSD advocate, yes? SSD good, traditional HD bad sort of guy?
Naturally then SSD has no problems in your eyes...but, we know from this thread that 'Smart' status is disabled if TRIP is enabled, and, from your implication, SSD's don't behave 100% smoothly with databases, presumably withlots of SQL read/write queries... to be continued?
RL
F
Flasherly
So you are an SSD advocate, yes? SSD good, traditional HD bad sort of guy?
Naturally then SSD has no problems in your eyes...but, we know from this thread that 'Smart' status is disabled if TRIP is enabled, and, from your implication, SSD's don't behave 100% smoothly with databases, presumably with lots of SQL read/write queries... to be continued?
Saw this, I borrowed.** Interesting concept if present W7 identity
issues with TRIM are superceded by more intelligent controller/GC
algorithms -- "Real Time" being an apparent proposal (below), the onus
then (I'll start by making this up...) being shifted to favor a
controller dispersion of write-erase/rewrites cycles, over equi-
distribution and into SSD memory available, for a factor lending to
the least significant wear only over any addressable range available
(an area yet unwritten to), over all widest ranges possible.
Of course, it goes without saying, for a cost premium on the latest
and greatest in between times for implementation and distribution
(within 6 months might be guesstimeable).
Say, then, that for one SSD, 3/4 is occupied with written immutably in
occupied reluctance, for permeance of a temporal dispensation shifted
to an ensuing 1/4 portion;- whereas reverse that same ratio on a
second SDD, that will exhibit 3/4 greater permeance distribution in
direct correlation to longevity. The presumption being at what point
failure to write memory is identified, how accountable, if at all, and
to what tolerances of progressively increasing diminishability as the
SDD then effectively shrinks in size due to a brunt of writes being
shifted to a residual remainder.
**
well on that one i agree alfa, there is alot of headway being made
with the garbage collection features using idillinx onboard ARM
processor. nice thing about this built in programming set:
1. OS independent...works with anything
2. does not create performance issues as it is not another command set
being issued.
3. headless....no thought required (like TRIM)
OCZ and idillinx are almost done with a new version of this (Firmware
4.5) that will run in real time. it is auto trim basically. the
version that i am currently using only works when your array or disk
has been idle for a certain amount of time.
The TRIM spec has many drawbacks, such as I/O overhead. there is much
talk of this new GC actually being used in preference of trim. The
next gen of devices, sandforce and jetstream, are going to rely
heavily on these features. it will be interesting if Intel follows
suit.
R
Robin Bignall
If you're referring to my post, I'm not sure that there is anySo you are an SSD advocate, yes? SSD good, traditional HD bad sort of guy?
Naturally then SSD has no problems in your eyes...but, we know from thisthread that 'Smart' status is disabled if TRIP is enabled, and, from your implication, SSD's don't behave 100% smoothly with databases, presumably with lots of SQL read/write queries... to be continued?
connection between SMART and TRIM. I'm just having some driver problems
and that appeared to be a symptom. But I just installed Hard Disk
Monitor Pro, which shows SMART for all my drives and TRIM enabled in
Win7. You can enable TRIM in Win7 regardless of whether you have SSD
installed or not. Does not mean that controller will pass it to device
or device will implement. There seems to be a lot of mystery about
TRIM: how when and what.
As far as SSD software is concerned, my Crucial SSD has none.
L
Loren Pechtel
So you are an SSD advocate, yes? SSD good, traditional HD bad sort of guy?
Naturally then SSD has no problems in your eyes...but, we know from this thread that 'Smart' status is disabled if TRIP is enabled, and, from your implication, SSD's don't behave 100% smoothly with databases, presumably with lots of SQL read/write queries... to be continued?
It's not that they have no problems, it's that the benefits outweigh
the downsides. As I write this I'm in the process of installing my
old SSD into my laptop.
L
Loren Pechtel
Say, then, that for one SSD, 3/4 is occupied with written immutably in
occupied reluctance, for permeance of a temporal dispensation shifted
to an ensuing 1/4 portion;- whereas reverse that same ratio on a
second SDD, that will exhibit 3/4 greater permeance distribution in
direct correlation to longevity. The presumption being at what point
failure to write memory is identified, how accountable, if at all, and
to what tolerances of progressively increasing diminishability as the
SDD then effectively shrinks in size due to a brunt of writes being
shifted to a residual remainder.
Except the wear-leveling will keep you from getting into this
situation until the very end of the drive's writable life.
From what I've seen under normal use the drive will outlast the
machine.
L
Loren Pechtel
My point exactly. The boundary layer 'sticks you close to ground' automatically, like a hovercraft, or insect caught in water surface tension sort of thing.
So how is this rejecting it being like the 747 at 6"? By the time
you're up to something that big the boundary effects are substantial
at 6".
R
RayLopez99
So how is this rejecting it being like the 747 at 6"?
No, I think we are in violent agreement here.
RL
L
Loren Pechtel
It's not that they have no problems, it's that the benefits outweigh
the downsides. As I write this I'm in the process of installing my
old SSD into my laptop.
Followup--it's installed. The machine is now so fast that the last I
saw it it was disappearing over the horizon.
Y
Yousuf Khan
I take it TRIM is just a luxury for better performance.
I wouldn't say "luxury", more of a recommended feature, rather than an
absolutely critical feature.
Garbage collection still happens on an SSD, but if TRIM support is
enabled, then it happens much more intelligently, and it doesn't
interfere with OS functionality.
Yousuf Khan
H
hp
Yes, they use for example 'ground effect' to control how close the
head is to the spinning platter. That's why the oft-cited stat that
running a HD is "like flying a Boeing 747 six inches above ground" is
a bit dishonest--you need to be close to the ground to get a smooth
boundary layer, no turbulence, let air laminar flow keep your heads
close automatically type situation.
RL
A LONG time ago we (at work) had some real HARD drives, the platter was
spun by a 1/3hp capacitor start 110v electric motor. there was also a
60psi air compressor that was used to provide air pressure to force the
FIXED heads, 10 per side of the platter, down to the platter surface so
the read/write would work. The platter was somewhere in the range of 20"
across. would take 2 techs to change one or a really strong tech to
horse one around by himself. The forced air was used to overcome the
laminar air flow of the spinning disk which wanted to push the heads
away from the platter.
R
RayLopez99
A LONG time ago we (at work) had some real HARD drives, the platter was
spun by a 1/3hp capacitor start 110v electric motor. there was also a
60psi air compressor that was used to provide air pressure to force the
FIXED heads, 10 per side of the platter, down to the platter surface so
the read/write would work. The platter was somewhere in the range of 20"
across. would take 2 techs to change one or a really strong tech to
horse one around by himself. The forced air was used to overcome the
laminar air flow of the spinning disk which wanted to push the heads
away from the platter.
Wow. Call that the "anti-ground effect" then!
20" platters?! Any further back than that and you'd be talking about sound waves traveling back and forth in a mercury tube to record data.
RL
D
David
A LONG time ago we (at work) had some real HARD drives, the platter was
spun by a 1/3hp capacitor start 110v electric motor. there was also a
60psi air compressor that was used to provide air pressure to force the
FIXED heads, 10 per side of the platter, down to the platter surface so
the read/write would work. The platter was somewhere in the range of 20"
across. would take 2 techs to change one or a really strong tech to
horse one around by himself. The forced air was used to overcome the
laminar air flow of the spinning disk which wanted to push the heads
away from the platter.
You're probably thinking of something like this:
http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=275
I had one of these in a test set years ago. The shop people were
supposed to clean the air filter once a week, and one week they forgot.
Then they called me and said the computer was making a 'funny noise'.
When I asked them to hold the phone up to it, all I could hear was the
sound of the heads bouncing off the platter... a strange high pitched
ringing. When the HP tech disassembled the drive, we could not find the
heads at all.. they had been ground into powder. I asked the tech if I
could keep the damaged fixed platter, and, 27 years later, it's hanging
on my wall. Interesting piece of hardware. The carriage that moved the
heads back and forth weighed about 20 pounds, and had a huge voice coil
electromagnet to move it. As I recall, there was a fail-safe circuit in
the drive that discharged a large capacitor into the carriage drive coil
in case the AC power failed, which would force the carriage back into the
resting position to get the heads away from the platter surface if the
airflow stopped.