New PC - comments?

[JohnS]

Don't know, I'm using a much older version of Forte but it
hasn't done anything like that... are you clearing out old
messages after awhile? It seems mine has been able to hold
a few thousand per box but I don't have any idea what the
max it's had was. Naturally there is some troubleshooting
you can do like backing up your current instance of Agent
and making a testbed install of it.

Im using the new Agent 3.3. You know theyve had some problems with the
new version 3 series. They really changed it and updated it
dramatically since it was so basic and old. It worked great in its old
form but the other newsreaders were way ahead of Forte Agent in
features. It been bit buggy the new versions.

One of the big problems frankly is one of the new features of Agent is
that it can handle tons of headers and many of the services have
continually expanded the amount they retain which is now reaching
incredible volume. It takes forever now to search , get headers etc.

Does any one else have this problem? You do a search and the PC
freezes. This isnt what Im talking about when I complain about
freezing and lockups. This freezing etc has been "normal" for a while.
In fact one of the reasons Ive wanted to upgrade to dual core and
faster CPUs etc is strangely enough --- besides gaming etc is basic
file functions will take forever and freeze the system. Try dumping
tons of small trivial files in a subdirectory like over 5000.

In WINXP the max file number seems to range somewhere around 4000-6000
, around there or higher if you delete or change the contents of the
directory with say File Explorer the PC just sits and freezes for a
while. Its really annoying. You would think things like file
management would be a snap nowadays. Cutting edge graphics sure , but
just updating the files content in a directory? My solution is to
keep clip art and other little files I have stored in subdirectories
no larger than 1000-2000 max. Ive always had problems in this area
with Win and its been getting better with faster processors and new
Wins but its annoying.

Theres the same kind of effect with various functions in Agent now as
if the sheer number of headers is causing a problem. Searching a large
group will cause the entiire program to freeze for annoyingly long
periods of time.

Anwyay thats a different problem which just may be normal.
But it may or may not be related as if Agent is struggling to handle
the huge volume of headers and gets corrupted. I may be totally wrong
about that though and it might be a PC problem.

I forgot to mention the obvious ----- everyone has claimed the Nvidia
IDE drivers cause problems ever since the nforce2. I keep instaling
them and then taking them out since many others swear they are OK and
they are being unfairly blamed. I should take them all off and see if
that has any effect as theres a recent post in this group blaming the
nvidia drivers for problems and at another site too.

Who doesn't? I don't very often but it seems related to
badly written websites' errors, as using sites that had
never crashed IE, don't ever either. Look into what the
sites are using, try to isolate that. Maybe a browser
pluging, I'd had versions of Acrobat that were buggy but now
I have it set to open windows external to IE, I find I like
the extra real-estate in Acrobat more than the
(convenience?) opening in the same IE window.

The funny thing is I NEVER got errors before unless something was
wrong with my PC etc. And I never got them with my ATI 800XL which is
ironic cause there are some ATI bashers who say ATI makes lousy
drivers.

Don't know, I don't have a 7800GT but the majority of my
cards are nVidia's and I don't recall any problem related to
their drivers, though I tend to use either the 7x.xx series
or the 2nd newest driver at the time (letting those who want
to, be beta-testers for whatever is the current driver..

Yeah my old cards all were rock solid ---- I mean the 400mx series.
I used to use that a lot on budget systems. Never had a problem at
all. So I was thinking since its a relatively newer card though they
have the 7900 series now , maybe theres some kind of problem.
You know that brings up another thing ---- Power Supply.

However everytime I start swapping PSes its never been the cure.

Well you could just do without SATA if the drives keep
getting corrupted. I wouldn't like that solution either but
it beats losing data... or just put it all on a fully burned
in central server and run little but windows on your main
system.

Yeah Im suspecting that. The Hitachi is OK on my dual core , Agent is
actually on a PATA seagate I have hooked up --- 5 drives to my main
system.

My nforce3 uses a cheap small sata WD that came with the Compaq system
I bought prebuilt but trashed and rebuilt.

The strange thing is I tried repair , reinstalls the win xp files and
it hangs about 3/4 through the process.

 

[Noozer]

Why not let the OP answer instead of butting in?
He wrote: "When I try to compact data or purge it freezes and
lockups requiring a reboot." It sounds *just like* data not getting
through to "touch the platters" or maybe not "getting off the
platters",
i.e. an intermittent IDE connection.

Actually, I'm the OP and I didn't write anything like that.

 

[kony]

Im using the new Agent 3.3. You know theyve had some problems with the
new version 3 series. They really changed it and updated it
dramatically since it was so basic and old. It worked great in its old
form but the other newsreaders were way ahead of Forte Agent in
features. It been bit buggy the new versions.

One of the big problems frankly is one of the new features of Agent is
that it can handle tons of headers and many of the services have
continually expanded the amount they retain which is now reaching
incredible volume. It takes forever now to search , get headers etc.

Does any one else have this problem? You do a search and the PC
freezes. This isnt what Im talking about when I complain about
freezing and lockups. This freezing etc has been "normal" for a while.
In fact one of the reasons Ive wanted to upgrade to dual core and
faster CPUs etc is strangely enough --- besides gaming etc is basic
file functions will take forever and freeze the system. Try dumping
tons of small trivial files in a subdirectory like over 5000.

Every now and then I suspect Windows just has a few internal
limitations that Bill & Co. don't feel like fixing, and why
would they when they have the market? Gotta do something to
make enough people find the next great os better.

In WINXP the max file number seems to range somewhere around 4000-6000
, around there or higher if you delete or change the contents of the
directory with say File Explorer the PC just sits and freezes for a
while. Its really annoying. You would think things like file
management would be a snap nowadays. Cutting edge graphics sure , but
just updating the files content in a directory?

There might be some OS tweaks that'd help there, maybe
enlarging the file cache and giving background tasks equal
priority? Don't know if that would work out well though, I
never have to deal with this as I keep all significant files
on a server before backup offline... so I never have many in
any directory. You might look into doing that too, it's
nice to have everything on a stable old system then you can
just copy a few key shortcuts and such from a thumbdrive and
have most of your operational environment ready from any PC.
Plus, I don't care much about file corruption so long as the
server and it's backups are ok.

My solution is to
keep clip art and other little files I have stored in subdirectories
no larger than 1000-2000 max. Ive always had problems in this area
with Win and its been getting better with faster processors and new
Wins but its annoying.

Theres the same kind of effect with various functions in Agent now as
if the sheer number of headers is causing a problem. Searching a large
group will cause the entiire program to freeze for annoyingly long
periods of time.

If you think it's Agent instead of windows, report this to
Forte... can't hurt, maybe they'll uncover a bug and patch
it.

Anwyay thats a different problem which just may be normal.
But it may or may not be related as if Agent is struggling to handle
the huge volume of headers and gets corrupted. I may be totally wrong
about that though and it might be a PC problem.

I forgot to mention the obvious ----- everyone has claimed the Nvidia
IDE drivers cause problems ever since the nforce2. I keep instaling
them and then taking them out since many others swear they are OK and
they are being unfairly blamed. I should take them all off and see if
that has any effect as theres a recent post in this group blaming the
nvidia drivers for problems and at another site too.

I like to use Windows' IDE driver whenever possible, it has
been ok and I don't appreciate any benefit from any other
drivers.

The funny thing is I NEVER got errors before unless something was
wrong with my PC etc. And I never got them with my ATI 800XL which is
ironic cause there are some ATI bashers who say ATI makes lousy
drivers.

Yes I think their drivers have been poor for years. Better
today than in the past but still things like CCC need a ton
of work to streamline. That doesnt' make nVidia's drivers
perfect though, they just seem to cause fewer problems. You
are cursed though, so if anyone has a problem with nVidia
drivers... just try a different series, like if you're
running 8x.xx, try 7x.xx. I forget which series supports
which generations of cards though, but some of the video
card oriented forums seem to have modified the INI files to
make the drivers acceptible to cards other than originally
specified. I haven't done any of this myself but if you
look around you might get some ideas on how to get some of
the drivers to work if they wouldnt' otherwise.

Yeah my old cards all were rock solid ---- I mean the 400mx series.
I used to use that a lot on budget systems. Never had a problem at
all. So I was thinking since its a relatively newer card though they
have the 7900 series now , maybe theres some kind of problem.
You know that brings up another thing ---- Power Supply.

However everytime I start swapping PSes its never been the cure.

Don't know what to tell you there, it might not usually be
the problem but if the day comes when it is the problem, you
still have to try it again to isolate that.

Lately I've been thinking about an array of PSU... I have 3
PC under my desk, a couple more beside it and those are
subject to change but with so many I was just thinking about
grabbing up about 6 midrange PSU and putting together a
redundant power sharing board. Biggest issue is getting
heavy, low gauge wire connected to the ATX plugs without
bending up the contacts. I suppose I could just put the ATX
plugs on secondary circuit boards with larger wire
connectors on it but that might be too bulky to fit on some
systems.

Yeah Im suspecting that. The Hitachi is OK on my dual core , Agent is
actually on a PATA seagate I have hooked up --- 5 drives to my main
system.

I don't know about the newest versions of Agent but the
older ones dont' require having it installed on the system
you're using it on, you can just link it. Doing it over the
network might be bad latency-wise if you're doing a lot of
searching but I seldom do searches.

My nforce3 uses a cheap small sata WD that came with the Compaq system
I bought prebuilt but trashed and rebuilt.

The strange thing is I tried repair , reinstalls the win xp files and
it hangs about 3/4 through the process.

I'm out of ideas but would lean towards it being a hardware
problem, or at least hardware in addition to windows.

 

[kony]

Please tell us for the record, what "subsystem" does Agent
use that other software doesn't use?

For one, it floods the networking with thousands of tiny
files when you download posts. Most other PC activities
don't to anywhere near this extent except maybe P2P stuff.

 

[JohnS]

John, is the Ala Wai cleaned up, yet?

*Tim*

Theyve been cleaning it for a long time now. There are actually two
things going on there. One is they are scooping up junk there since
theres tons of debris and garbage piled up at the bottom thats been a
long term plan. Thats continuing I think.

The other is the sewage spill they had when torrential rains the last
two months which seem over now finally , caused them to dump raw
sewage into it. That I think they just assume the sea will take care
of. Several people have claimed they got sick and one guy died after
falling into the canal supposedly right after the sewage was dumped
there because of the emergency breakdown in the sewer system cause of
the flood from rain. He fell in and had cuts and bruises and was
supposedly infected by some flesh eating bacteria. Several other
claimed they got sick too.

Its caused a lot controversy with blame directed at the new mayor who
in turn blames Harris the former mayor for neglecting the sewer
system. I dont know who is to blame or if anyone is. The rains were
unsually heavy, the economy was poor since the 80s which caused a
downturn in tax revenues. They say there was an exodus from here then
which has reversed since the economy is one of the best in the last
few years with the building boom going on, but that cant last. Theres
a net inflow Ive read nowadays. A huge luxury condo boom with tens of
thousands of new occupants slated to be in Ala Moana region since
that area is being totally redeveloped. New chain stores and high
rises are all going up.

The new med research center is almost finished and almost all the open
land that sitting around for decades which puzzled me , is being
developed in one big bang. Theres some opposition to all the
redevelopement though. Waikiki is also finished with one phase but
they are planning phase two.

Of course with all that you have to wonder how the sewer system will
cope with that growth alone. So the mayor announced 600 mil in
upgrades with a higher tax to pay for it. Personally Id like the
Waikiki side to be as clean as the Kailua side even if it takes a bit
of $$$. The ocean there looks far better than the Waikiki side which
is still way better than LA of course. And Id like more clean up on
the Kailua side too. It looks pristine but after rains they put up the
sign about bacteria etc and the small river that flows to the beach in
Kailua looks a bit murky and doesnt smell that great.

 

[JohnS]

Every now and then I suspect Windows just has a few internal
limitations that Bill & Co. don't feel like fixing, and why
would they when they have the market? Gotta do something to
make enough people find the next great os better.

I like to use Windows' IDE driver whenever possible, it has
been ok and I don't appreciate any benefit from any other
drivers.

I think I found part of the problem. The PATA drive which I had Agent
on was using a SATA to IDE converter. These work great by the way and
Ive used them since I had my nforce2 board. This wasnt the problem in
the past as Ive had problems on ALL my drives in the past wih my RMAd
chaintech board.

Anwyay this time I noticed last night when it booted up the POST code
instead of the usual 75 code said 96 and theres been long pauses as
the two drives using the converters were being detected.

So I disconnected them and I get the usual 75 code. Its got to be that
as my AGENT program and files are on the disk with the converters.

Now Ive got to thoroughly check the converters which have worked great
but have been a bit flakey in terms of inserting the them into the
HDs. They are fussy.

Heres the strange thing about them. You know how IDE cables the ends
fit snuggly and they have a notch on top so theres no way you can
insert them incorrectly? These converters have plugs that are slightly
smaller than the HD insert and have NO NOTCH ! So you can actually
insert them wrong and seem to have them plugged in. They also are big
and bulky so they tend to sag with the cables inserted in them and not
contact the pins all the way since they tend to slide out a bit from
cable pressure. Should be a simple fix OR maybe these converters are
due for a replacement. Ive had them for over a year. It was getting
bad last night as I got WRITE DELAY failed --- hardware failure or
software ---- from windows.

Hopefully This fixes the Internet explorer problem too I hope though
at the moment I dont see who they are related but who knows.

Lately I've been thinking about an array of PSU... I have 3
PC under my desk, a couple more beside it and those are
subject to change but with so many I was just thinking about
grabbing up about 6 midrange PSU and putting together a
redundant power sharing board. Biggest issue is getting
heavy, low gauge wire connected to the ATX plugs without
bending up the contacts. I suppose I could just put the ATX
plugs on secondary circuit boards with larger wire
connectors on it but that might be too bulky to fit on some
systems.

I was thinking about that too. I mean whats next a 1000 watt PS?
Maybe they should start going for modular systems which you can add
to them.

Now to fix the Nforce3.

Somethings I wish they would do.

a) Let WINXP look for 3rd party hard disk controller drivers on a CD !
Why does it have to be a floppy? Sure I can slipstream the drivers but
why not make WINXP pause and say insert your MB CD to add the
controller drivers? My nforce3 board --- it was a hassle to figure
out which drivers only to include on a floppy. Most makers dont send
out floppies anymore only CDs.

b) What happened to that great idea of making easily accessible and
removable air fliters ? These should be standard on every case. Make
pouches in front and back where a removable slide in and out air
filter can fit in . Standard low cost fliters. I had to take out my
ATI 800XL and blow the tons of dust out of my 800XL and use a tweezer
to get some of the clumps out it was so clogged. A lot of people who
cant figure out how to open their case will never do that. And I
notice my cases tend to get clogged with dust about every 6-12 months.
Ive seen a few cases but the idea just doesnt seem to have caught on.
Probably cause of the trend to drastically save costs with low prices
for everything but what about all the high priced cases? Its rare even
with them. None of my Antecs have it.

c) Collapsible buildable cases. I really like this idea and wonder why
it hasnt caught on. With the trend toward lighter, weaker cases ---
possibly the big objection to collapsible cases is now gone since
collapsible cases would be far weaker than the older cases. You could
have cases shipped as just flat panels with bars for frame which you
put together like a tinkeytoys or erector sets. Look how most DIY
furniture is nowadays. It saves on shipping and storage cause the case
would be shipped in a flatter box. All that air space inside isnt
wasted when shipping and especially with transportation costs soaring
with energy costs rising.

 

[kony]

Anwyay this time I noticed last night when it booted up the POST code
instead of the usual 75 code said 96 and theres been long pauses as
the two drives using the converters were being detected.

So I disconnected them and I get the usual 75 code. Its got to be that
as my AGENT program and files are on the disk with the converters.

So if you had a spare PCI slot and an ATA133 card... if your
onboard ATA ports are already spoken for.

Now Ive got to thoroughly check the converters which have worked great
but have been a bit flakey in terms of inserting the them into the
HDs. They are fussy.

Heres the strange thing about them. You know how IDE cables the ends
fit snuggly and they have a notch on top so theres no way you can
insert them incorrectly? These converters have plugs that are slightly
smaller than the HD insert and have NO NOTCH ! So you can actually
insert them wrong and seem to have them plugged in. They also are big
and bulky so they tend to sag with the cables inserted in them and not
contact the pins all the way since they tend to slide out a bit from
cable pressure. Should be a simple fix OR maybe these converters are
due for a replacement. Ive had them for over a year. It was getting
bad last night as I got WRITE DELAY failed --- hardware failure or
software ---- from windows.

Since most (all?) drives have mounting holes tapped into
their bottom sides, you should be able to take a piece of
metal and make a bit of a tray that extends back to support
the adapters. It'll need insulated if the adapters have the
potential to short out on it though, or to insulate the
adapters instead. A layer of epoxy would work, or some
plastic sheeting with double-sided foam tape holding it on
probably would too.

I was thinking about that too. I mean whats next a 1000 watt PS?
Maybe they should start going for modular systems which you can add
to them.

They need to do something, PS2 form factor PSUs were better
for an era when systems didn't need 250W. A few scattered
offerings are extended length but then they wouldn't work in
many of the most common OEM cases which put the 5-1/4 bay
too close.

If you have a lot of drives one thing that's easy is to just
use a smaller secondary PSU for the drives. One of mine is
set up like that but I don't even run it very often these
days, it was once near the fastest system I had but now is
mostly used backup of the fileserver.

Now to fix the Nforce3.

Somethings I wish they would do.

a) Let WINXP look for 3rd party hard disk controller drivers on a CD !
Why does it have to be a floppy? Sure I can slipstream the drivers but
why not make WINXP pause and say insert your MB CD to add the
controller drivers? My nforce3 board --- it was a hassle to figure
out which drivers only to include on a floppy. Most makers dont send
out floppies anymore only CDs.

It would seem like they could just go to a routine that
prompts for the driver when windows stops due to not having
one. If MS were struggling I could see the lack of budget
for this but it seems more likely they simply choose not to
do it. Perhaps they feel it would encourage casual piracy,
except there's still that issue of activation and validation
to get patches which are more of a deterrent, IMO.

b) What happened to that great idea of making easily accessible and
removable air fliters ? These should be standard on every case. Make
pouches in front and back where a removable slide in and out air
filter can fit in . Standard low cost fliters. I had to take out my
ATI 800XL and blow the tons of dust out of my 800XL and use a tweezer
to get some of the clumps out it was so clogged. A lot of people who
cant figure out how to open their case will never do that. And I
notice my cases tend to get clogged with dust about every 6-12 months.
Ive seen a few cases but the idea just doesnt seem to have caught on.
Probably cause of the trend to drastically save costs with low prices
for everything but what about all the high priced cases? Its rare even
with them. None of my Antecs have it.

There's another problem with website reviews... they don't
run the systems long enough to notice things like dust
buildup and maintenance issues. The last system I put a
large filter panel into, had some plastic (was just old bay
faceplates sawed in strips) cemented around the inside
perimeter of the front bezel at 90' angle to the sides of
the bezel but recessed about 1/8", or the thickness of those
neodymium magnets in hard drives. I epoxied 4 magnets onto
the corners of the bezel inner lip so the bezel is only
attached by them, so it just pulls off to swap the filter
panel. First time I took it off the floppy bezel snagged on
it because the floppy bay was off-center a millimeter or so
but then I correct that and it has worked well ever since.
You have to have positive pressurization for that to work
well though, else the dust just comes in all the crevasses
and drives too.

c) Collapsible buildable cases. I really like this idea and wonder why
it hasnt caught on. With the trend toward lighter, weaker cases ---
possibly the big objection to collapsible cases is now gone since
collapsible cases would be far weaker than the older cases. You could
have cases shipped as just flat panels with bars for frame which you
put together like a tinkeytoys or erector sets. Look how most DIY
furniture is nowadays. It saves on shipping and storage cause the case
would be shipped in a flatter box. All that air space inside isnt
wasted when shipping and especially with transportation costs soaring
with energy costs rising.

Well there were those cardboard cases but I'd never build
anything in one except as a novelty. I think a lot of
people wouldn't be putting them together very well though, I
mean if they were metal, and a few off tolerance panels
could make for all sorts of interesting spacing problems
once one has built up the whole system and finds their cards
don't fit or line up well.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

One is they are scooping up junk there since
theres tons of debris and garbage piled up at
the bottom...

The entire area back of Waikiki extending to Kapahulu
Ave, Date Street, and Ala Moana Blvd was once swamp.
The Ala Wai is totally artificial and unnatural and should
be dredged periodically.

The other is the sewage spill they had when torrential
rains the last two months which seem over now finally,
caused them to dump raw sewage into it.

The Ala Wai has always had a reputation for "fragrance"
and "things" floating in it. The raw sewage dumping
seemed like a natural progression, I guess..

For more than a decade the large hotels in Waikiki
have had holding tanks for their sewage which they
discharged into the antiquated Waikiki sewage
system late at night. It was a system waiting to break.

Its caused a lot controversy with blame directed at the new
mayor who in turn blames Harris, the former mayor...

Harris and Hannemann are corrupt. (What else is new?)
I gave to Bainum's campaign.

...A huge luxury condo boom with tens of
thousands of new occupants slated to be in Ala Moana
region since that area is being totally redeveloped.
New chain stores and high rises are all going up.

The island is getting more and more top heavy.
It'll roll over some day.

...the small river that flows to the beach in
Kailua looks a bit murky and doesnt smell that great.

It never *was* that great. People don't seem to know
that most of the level land on the island was once swamp
and fish ponds.

All told, it was a great place to grow up. But now...
it's just a great place to own land.

*TimDaniels*

 

[JohnS]

The entire area back of Waikiki extending to Kapahulu
Ave, Date Street, and Ala Moana Blvd was once swamp.
The Ala Wai is totally artificial and unnatural and should
be dredged periodically.

I saw some old pictures. Its amazing to see all the open land then.
I've always said Waikiki --- bizarre development plan. I guess at the
time when nothing was there it seemed like a good idea to put all the
huge hotels right on the beach but I've always said , if I had my way
I would have restricted all the buildings within say two blocks of the
beach to be one or two stories. That way a far larger part of the
beach area would feel connected to the beach. That's the way its
usually zoned I think at many places. Then you wouldn't get that wall
of high rises blocking out the sun and the beach area.

The area in back of the wall of high rises in back of the hotels feels
blocked off from the beach. It would help businesses too if all the
restaurants etc felt connected to the beach. Redondo , Manhattan and
Hermosa are like that in LA or even Venice. All the buildings are 1-2
stories I think.

I've also liked the idea of having lots of streets perpendicular to
the beach so the inland areas feel connected to the beach. When you
see a main street stretching inland to the beach it gives it a more
open feel. They actually did that more towards Ward Center area so it
feels far more open now. You know you get a sense that it was closed
off with the wall of hotels in Waikiki , Ala Moana shopping center
blocking the beach and then it was closed off in the Ward center area
a while ago too. They are trying to correct some of those mistakes I
think in their redevelopment plans.

One of the things I've always wondered besides all that open land
that's been left sitting there for decades, was why prime real estate
was so underutilized. You know Hawaii has what shocked me --- 7 mil
visitors a year a prime tourist spot and really only a tiny area in an
island that doesn't have much land to begin with is being grossly
overdeveloped Waikiki. And yet about 80% of the area around it was old
industrial area in KaKaako and all the way up to the airport. That's
being totally developed now with the med center and condos around it.
Part of the development plan I think is to change the entire coastal
area there , bring in tons of wealthy new occupants and make the
entire area upscale to make it more attractive to wealthy tourists and
attract more upscale businesses. I've read that was the plan a while
ago but it was hampered by the downturn in the economy.

Harris and Hannemann are corrupt. (What else is new?)
I gave to Bainum's campaign.

Didn't really follow the race too much but I have to admit I voted for
Bainum. He just seemed more energetic.

It never *was* that great. People don't seem to know
that most of the level land on the island was once swamp
and fish ponds.

Yeah people who lived here ages ago tell me Waikiki was artificially
made with sand brought in. That it was a swampy, rocky area.

Those trees in Ala Moana Park etc seem like a remnant of that swampy
environment. I actually am not crazy about those weird looking trees
and all that rotting vegetation but maybe that's what it should be
like and not remade into a what people picture ---- a kind of tropical
Disneyland.

 

[JohnS]

If you have a lot of drives one thing that's easy is to just
use a smaller secondary PSU for the drives. One of mine is
set up like that but I don't even run it very often these
days, it was once near the fastest system I had but now is
mostly used backup of the fileserver.

Finally fixed it.

It was a comibination of bad cables and dirty contacts it seems.
Totally wacked out random errors. After I started cleaning the
contacts on all my cables and drives things got better with various
drives but then things kept happening.

After I pushed and bent the IDE ribbon cables to conform to my case
the two HDs that are connected to it disappeared in WIN XP. I replaced
that cable. I noticed the current 80 wire IDE cables are extremely
malleable and hold a shape when you bend them as if they are made from
sold super thin wire so they can be bent and retain the bends you put
in them. Im wondering if they are prone to breakage ---- the wire
inside. Ive had a few problems with them in the past.

Even after cleaning all the contacts and replacing the IDE cable I had
weird freezes and lags. I looked at my sata cables closely and one had
an end where the casing around it had come apart a bit from bending. I
decided to replace that and cracked it the casing open. Theres 5-6
thin solid bare wires at the end of the sata cable which are all
soldered onto plug. One of them had come off probably from bending
the end.

The main problem seems to be the fact I have my HDs sideways and with
the sata to pata converters and sata plugs they barely fit with the
side panel on. The side panel puts pressure on the plugs bending them
downward. Ill have to get those right angle sata plugs sooner than I
thought.

Now to fix the other system.