New HP Computer- any opinions?

[Paul Murphy]

news:[email protected]...

connectivity you wouldn't believe. The Pentium 4 2.8 seems to run hot,
but the 3.2 version apparently is hotter, and neither generates as much
heat as an Athlon 64, so you have to actively think about cooling, which
is solved

Older P4s (Northwood) maybe used to consume less power and produce less heat
than the Athlon 64's but the current P4s just about make all the lights in
the house go dim when the PC is switched on. If you look at the AMD 64
details they have Cool N Quiet technology:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_9487^10272,00.html
which shows (at least) that power consumption is a priority to AMD. If you
view AMD's power specs pdf about this here:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/K8_Electrical_Spec_Rev_ENG.pdf
its clear that the current P4s at about 115 Watts (at least those of 3.4 GHz
and above) use far more power than the AMD 64s + rated equivalents at about
89 Watts. Some P4 specs for comparison are on page 74 of this PDF
ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/303128.pdf
Its true that AMD CPU's used to be much more power hungry than the P4's but
these days the tide has turned and AMD are in the lead by a long shot.

Paul

 

[Pelysma]

Older P4s (Northwood) maybe used to consume less power and produce less
heat than the Athlon 64's but the current P4s just about make all the
lights in the house go dim when the PC is switched on. If you look at the
AMD 64 details they have Cool N Quiet technology:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_9487^10272,00.html
which shows (at least) that power consumption is a priority to AMD. If you
view AMD's power specs pdf about this here:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/K8_Electrical_Spec_Rev_ENG.pdf
its clear that the current P4s at about 115 Watts (at least those of 3.4
GHz and above) use far more power than the AMD 64s + rated equivalents at
about 89 Watts. Some P4 specs for comparison are on page 74 of this PDF
ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/303128.pdf
Its true that AMD CPU's used to be much more power hungry than the P4's
but these days the tide has turned and AMD are in the lead by a long shot.

Paul

We had all three of them side by side here for a LAN party last weekend.

Cool 'n' quiet -- quiet, yes, certainly quieter than my son's P4 2.8
computer, which is quieter than my 2.4 Northwood because his 120mm fan moves
more air than my 90mm fan at a slower speed... heat is another matter. I
think the "cool" in "cool'n'quiet" must refer to the core temperature
benefit it provides, because the air from the back of the box is like a
desert breeze. Also note that the AMD's "Rated Equivalent" is not any kind
of an "equivalent" -- it's an apple and an orange, and which one wins
depends on what tests you run for the benchmarks.

I was worried about my son's computer because it produced a "hot" smell for
over a week, but it has settled down now. In any case, as a heat generator,
the Athlon 64 box was definitely the warmest of the three. Then again, the
P4's get hotter as the speed goes up, and both that and my budget dictated
the 2.8 -- so there is undoubtedly a point where the lines cross. You said
"3.4 and above" -- and there, I believe you.

 

[Paul Murphy]

We had all three of them side by side here for a LAN party last weekend.

Cool 'n' quiet -- quiet, yes, certainly quieter than my son's P4 2.8
computer, which is quieter than my 2.4 Northwood because his 120mm fan
moves more air than my 90mm fan at a slower speed... heat is another
matter. I think the "cool" in "cool'n'quiet" must refer to the core
temperature benefit it provides, because the air from the back of the box
is like a desert breeze.

The cool, just like any marketing term, will be relative - ie compared with
a "similarly performing" P4. It doesn't mean the air will come out of the
computer cool - that would be very difficult to accomplish for either AMD or
P4 unless you had a huge area for it to be vented out of. The important
point is how many watts are consumed because that power is converted
directly to heat (since the CPU isn't doing any work - at least not under
the strict definition of the term).

Also note that the AMD's "Rated Equivalent" is not any kind of an
"equivalent" -- it's an apple and an orange, and which one wins depends on
what tests you run for the benchmarks.

I understand your point - it was the best comparison I could use though as a
purely MHz comparison wouldn't be fair given the AMD CPU is so much more
efficient in what it can do than the P4 per cycle.

I was worried about my son's computer because it produced a "hot" smell
for over a week, but it has settled down now. In any case, as a heat
generator, the Athlon 64 box was definitely the warmest of the three.
Then again, the P4's get hotter as the speed goes up, and both that and my
budget dictated the 2.8 -- so there is undoubtedly a point where the lines
cross. You said "3.4 and above" -- and there, I believe you.

I understand that the situation was different with older, less power hungry
P4s from the Northwood / Pre Prescott era. The point of my post was that
since this is related to a new Media Centre PC, I believe the OP would be
better off with one using an AMD 64 than a similarly new P4 CPU because of
heat (and consequently noise) related issues in the higher end P4 CPU
offerings these days. I'd hate tho think that anyone would go away and opt
for one of the latest P4 CPUs in their new Media Centre PC under a false
belief that they were cooler running over all (although there are custom
HSFs which can be bought for either to quieten them down).Paul

 

[kony]

We had all three of them side by side here for a LAN party last weekend.

Cool 'n' quiet -- quiet, yes, certainly quieter than my son's P4 2.8
computer, which is quieter than my 2.4 Northwood because his 120mm fan moves
more air than my 90mm fan at a slower speed... heat is another matter. I
think the "cool" in "cool'n'quiet" must refer to the core temperature
benefit it provides, because the air from the back of the box is like a
desert breeze.

Different systems have several reasons for different
(casually observed) exhaust temps. A64 is without question
cooler than P4.

Actually at any given time in the past the P4 top end parts
were always hotter running at load than the Athlons,
including the XPs, ever since the point in time when AMD
moved from Palomino to T'Bred core. P4 did often idle
cooler though, but for entirely different reasons- that mobo
manufacturers wanted to reduce RMA of boards ran by marginal
PSU by limiting the idle current swings, disabling the
chipset registers for Athlon XP bus-disconnect. One can
enable that feature again if they desire.

Regardless, there are more significant reasons to choose one
platform or the other, specifically the target use of (most
demanding task(s) ran on) the system.

Also note that the AMD's "Rated Equivalent" is not any kind
of an "equivalent" -- it's an apple and an orange, and which one wins
depends on what tests you run for the benchmarks.

I was worried about my son's computer because it produced a "hot" smell for
over a week, but it has settled down now. In any case, as a heat generator,
the Athlon 64 box was definitely the warmest of the three. Then again, the
P4's get hotter as the speed goes up, and both that and my budget dictated
the 2.8 -- so there is undoubtedly a point where the lines cross. You said
"3.4 and above" -- and there, I believe you.

Has nothing to do with it being an A64. All parts of a
system must be scrutinized, one cannot only mention A64 or
P4 when it is the other factors determining total heat
production. BUT, all things being equal (which is
impossible but nevertheless...) the A64 will always run
cooler.

 

[Pelysma]

The point of my post was that

since this is related to a new Media Centre PC, I believe the OP would be
better off with one using an AMD 64 than a similarly new P4 CPU because of
heat (and consequently noise) related issues in the higher end P4 CPU
offerings these days.

And my point, originally, was NOT a comparison between AMD and Intel, but
something quite different:

If you build a system from scratch, you MUST pay attention to cooling
issues, because today's processors generate much more heat than a couple of
years ago. This is an issue that will be taken care of for you if you buy
any quality packaged system.

I should have avoided the little political stab (awright, I couldn't resist
stirring something up). Fact is, Athlon64 was not in my budget; I could have
stretched and put in a 3.0 P4, but didn't because I read that overheating
was a problem on that particular CPU.

 

[fmofmo]

I neglected to mention that both the m7060n and the m7070n come with
DDR2 SDRAM as opposed to the older DDR SDRAM available in the m1270n
and m1280n.

 

[fmofmo]

That new HP Media Center PC ( m7087 ) should be on their site as of
next week. The model may be listed as the m7087c instead of the m7087n
("c" instead of "n" at the end). Also, you can customize your own HP
Media Center PC m7000 series on the hpshopping.com site now.

 

[fmofmo]

I have a feeling this m7087c model will only be available at Sam's Club
in the U.S. We should know more in the next week or two.

 

[fmofmo]

The m7087c is a bundled PC (with monitor) sold at Sam's Club. Watch
for the m7170n coming out soon.