New computer - how to transfer old system across?

[Robert Heiling]

As I explained I just wanted to copy some file accross without
buying any hardware. I don't want a network at the moment,
or Rolls Royce either, although it would be nice to have one.

Your zero-cost method for doing that would be to to install the HD from the old
computer as secondary slave on the new. You could move it back after the copy or
leave it in as your new computer's bios probably will let you boot from it there
if you want to. You might like to try that and use your spare HD in the old
computer.

You could take the usb approach. I did about 5 years ago, Buslink brand, and the
box with the cable & software has been sitting out in my garage ever since as
it's realistically a one-time use by its nature. Your cost would perhaps be
around £8.

You could temporarily connect the 2 computers by a Cat5/6 cable long enough for
the job, maybe the one you use for the cable modem. A little setup and you're
ready to copy. That would involve all your network settings though and could be
a headache to setup & restore. From what you've said, it doesn't sound like you
want to get involved with that.

You could save the £8 from a usb purchase and use it towards a wired router. If
your computers are close enough for usb, then you don't need a wireless and the
wired ones are a lot cheaper (check Ebay .uk). The benefits are severalfold in
that you can use it the as your connection between the 2 computers to copy
files, both computers connect to the internet at the same time, and you get the
hardware-firewall benefits of the router. In regard to that last, it means that
you're wearing a seatbelt which you might do whether you were driving a RR or a
MC.

Bob

 

[Bazzer Smith]

Your zero-cost method for doing that would be to to install the HD from
the old
computer as secondary slave on the new. You could move it back after the
copy or
leave it in as your new computer's bios probably will let you boot from it
there
if you want to. You might like to try that and use your spare HD in the
old
computer.

Thats what I am currently doing, its only 2 meg though so only holds 3 cds
worth.
Other disk is 3.5 (or 3) meg but thats the master.

You could take the usb approach. I did about 5 years ago, Buslink brand,
and the
box with the cable & software has been sitting out in my garage ever since
as
it's realistically a one-time use by its nature. Your cost would perhaps
be
around £8.

Maybe but I would rathernot buy anything.

You could temporarily connect the 2 computers by a Cat5/6 cable long
enough for
the job, maybe the one you use for the cable modem. A little setup and
you're
ready to copy. That would involve all your network settings though and
could be
a headache to setup & restore. From what you've said, it doesn't sound
like you
want to get involved with that.

Maybe would need to look into it.
I remember many years ago (when I was a programmer, still am
but unpaid!!) transfering data between computers
down a printer (RS232C) cable, can't see why I can't do that.
I don't care how long it takes!!.

You could save the £8 from a usb purchase and use it towards a wired
router. If
your computers are close enough for usb, then you don't need a wireless
and the
wired ones are a lot cheaper (check Ebay .uk). The benefits are
severalfold in
that you can use it the as your connection between the 2 computers to copy
files, both computers connect to the internet at the same time, and you
get the
hardware-firewall benefits of the router. In regard to that last, it means
that
you're wearing a seatbelt which you might do whether you were driving a RR
or a
MC.

Yes but I don't really know what I would like in that area (wireless or
wired etc..)
I would need to look into it. I mean I don't want to ruch out and buy a
Silver Ghost and
then find I would be better off with a Corniche.
I just want a cheap way to connect the computers. What about the
the ethernet port? Would that work? I don't see why not?
I mean my computer can and does act as a client and a server etc
so I think there should be a reall easy way to do it, but then
companies don't make money out of easy solutionns!!
The old computer doesn't have a ethernet port, I was going to
buy one today for £10 but I chickened out at the last moment
cos I suspect there will be some reason it won't work.
Thanks for you input anyway I will look into some of the
suggestions.


The weirdest think is the CD player will only read some
disks on the new computer, but virtually all on the old computer.
You would not have thouogh it would make any diference but
that is why these computer companies are paid billions (so nothing
works properly),

 

[Robert Heiling]

Thats what I am currently doing, its only 2 meg though so only holds 3 cds
worth.
Other disk is 3.5 (or 3) meg but thats the master.


Maybe but I would rathernot buy anything.

Then swap the drive in long enough to copy everything off of it. Your new system
must have at least 40GB so it won't even notice the 3.5 and you can later delete
what you don't need. Zero cost and very little trouble.

Maybe would need to look into it.
I remember many years ago (when I was a programmer, still am
but unpaid!!) transfering data between computers
down a printer (RS232C) cable, can't see why I can't do that.
I don't care how long it takes!!.

Yes but I don't really know what I would like in that area (wireless or
wired etc..)
I would need to look into it. I mean I don't want to ruch out and buy a
Silver Ghost and
then find I would be better off with a Corniche.

Just buy the cheapest one you can find. You can sell it whenever you decide to
upgrade or throw it away.

I just want a cheap way to connect the computers. What about the
the ethernet port? Would that work? I don't see why not?

That's what I was talking about above. Cat5/6 is ethernet cable. However, that
would involve all the networking setup that you said you didn't want any part
of. Best to just swap in the hard drive and avoid all that.

I mean my computer can and does act as a client and a server etc
so I think there should be a reall easy way to do it, but then
companies don't make money out of easy solutionns!!
The old computer doesn't have a ethernet port, I was going to
buy one today for £10 but I chickened out at the last moment
cos I suspect there will be some reason it won't work.
Thanks for you input anyway I will look into some of the
suggestions.

Sure it has one. That's the one you used to connect to the modem.

The weirdest think is the CD player will only read some
disks on the new computer, but virtually all on the old computer.
You would not have thouogh it would make any diference but
that is why these computer companies are paid billions (so nothing
works properly),

Nothing weird or unusual about that at all. It's actually quite common for CD's
that were burned on one drive to be unreadable in another. "Verify" is there to
make sure that they will even read on the very same drive. Then just pray that
they will read on that same drive when the time comes that you need them.

Bob

 

[Bazzer Smith]

Then swap the drive in long enough to copy everything off of it. Your new
system
must have at least 40GB so it won't even notice the 3.5 and you can later
delete
what you don't need. Zero cost and very little trouble.

I have already done that, I have copied both driver onto my old machine,
however I have a pile of stuff on CD I want to get on the new machine
(so I can burn to DVD and save space).
But you have just given me an idea which seems like a really simply
solution to most of the problem. Why don't I put the big 80 gig drive
of the new machine into the old machine (as a slave, then I can
read files to that drive via the CD drive, which will read the CDs
when used in the old machine. That would save a lot of drive swopping.
My one fear is that I might somehow screw up the new drive so it
would not work. Also the old machine might not like such a big drive.
I may try it if I feel brave!!.

Just buy the cheapest one you can find. You can sell it whenever you
decide to
upgrade or throw it away.


That's what I was talking about above. Cat5/6 is ethernet cable.

I didn't realise that.

However, that
would involve all the networking setup that you said you didn't want any
part
of.

No it was the cost that put me off, I don't mind configuring it etc..
Or at least trying, I might learn something.
MAybe I should have bought that Ethernet card then. Rhe old machine
did not have one. I *assume* if I buy one it will work in it?

Best to just swap in the hard drive and avoid all that.


Sure it has one. That's the one you used to connect to the modem.

No it's via USB.

Nothing weird or unusual about that at all. It's actually quite common for
CD's
that were burned on one drive to be unreadable in another. "Verify" is
there to
make sure that they will even read on the very same drive. Then just pray
that
they will read on that same drive when the time comes that you need them.

No but it is the *same* drive!!! I swapped the drive into the new machine
but it would then only read half of the disks (or less) it would read when
in
the old machine.

 

[kony]

As I explained I just wanted to copy some file accross without
buying any hardware. I don't want a network at the moment,
or Rolls Royce either, although it would be nice to have one.

I'd hardly call $5- $25 worth of hardware a Rolls Royce but
here are the other factors:

- You have two systems and it might be useful to have
multiple system internet acess.

- It is more secure, something you expressed a desire
towards, to have even one system behind a router instead of
directly connected to the cable modem.

- It facilitates the file copying, without having to swap
discs back and forth so it's easier, and unless there are
several gigs of data, quicker.

- One proposal you made was using USB. Male-male usb cords
to do this aren't supposed to exist because there are not to
be connected directly to each system's USB port. A special
bridge device with USB plugs on it could be, but you
(apparently) dont' have this device and it would again be
more hardware to purchase and a minor learning curve like
anything else.

- You also lacked the software, another bit of time to
spend tracking it down and learning it, and possible expense
if it's not free. Fortunately many ready-made USB bridge
devices may include this software but they may be more
expensive, the more common is that the bridge is treated as
two network adapters and thus you still have the same
learing for networking, but none of the benefits of the
similar cost router you could choose instead.

- It's not that what you would do wouldnt' work, but
rather, there is a better way that is not unduely difficult
or expensive, indeed is the preferred choice by world plus
dog.

 

[Robert Heiling]

I have already done that, I have copied both driver onto my old machine,
however I have a pile of stuff on CD I want to get on the new machine
(so I can burn to DVD and save space).
But you have just given me an idea which seems like a really simply
solution to most of the problem. Why don't I put the big 80 gig drive
of the new machine into the old machine (as a slave, then I can
read files to that drive via the CD drive, which will read the CDs
when used in the old machine. That would save a lot of drive swopping.
My one fear is that I might somehow screw up the new drive so it
would not work. Also the old machine might not like such a big drive.
I may try it if I feel brave!!.

You haven't said anything about your cpu & motherboard unless it was in some
previous post, but with a HD as small as 4GB, you can be assured that the bios
will not handle an 80GB HD.

I didn't realise that.


No it was the cost that put me off, I don't mind configuring it etc..
Or at least trying, I might learn something.
MAybe I should have bought that Ethernet card then. Rhe old machine
did not have one. I *assume* if I buy one it will work in it?

But it's money down the drain.

No it's via USB.

and that's the *only* connector on the modem?

No but it is the *same* drive!!! I swapped the drive into the new machine
but it would then only read half of the disks (or less) it would read when
in
the old machine.

That could be a number of things including the wrong driver for it being
installed.

Bob

 

[kony]

You haven't said anything about your cpu & motherboard unless it was in some
previous post, but with a HD as small as 4GB, you can be assured that the bios
will not handle an 80GB HD.

While that is true, in the *4GB* drive era, the most common
(Intel OEM) boards did later provide bios updates to support
up to 128GB.

 

[Bazzer Smith]

I'd hardly call $5- $25 worth of hardware a Rolls Royce but
here are the other factors:

But you haven't any evidence such hardware exists. Which hardware?
Can you supply a link?
Otherwise thats of no help whatsoever.

- You have two systems and it might be useful to have
multiple system internet acess.

Not for the moment it would just complicate things I think.

- It is more secure, something you expressed a desire
towards, to have even one system behind a router instead of
directly connected to the cable modem.

Ah a router so thats another $80 then unless you have a link
to prove otherwise, word are cheap I need evidence.

- It facilitates the file copying, without having to swap
discs back and forth so it's easier, and unless there are
several gigs of data, quicker.

- One proposal you made was using USB. Male-male usb cords
to do this aren't supposed to exist because there are not to
be connected directly to each system's USB port. A special
bridge device with USB plugs on it could be, but you
(apparently) dont' have this device and it would again be
more hardware to purchase and a minor learning curve like
anything else.

- You also lacked the software, another bit of time to
spend tracking it down and learning it, and possible expense
if it's not free. Fortunately many ready-made USB bridge
devices may include this software but they may be more
expensive, the more common is that the bridge is treated as
two network adapters and thus you still have the same
learing for networking, but none of the benefits of the
similar cost router you could choose instead.

- It's not that what you would do wouldnt' work, but
rather, there is a better way that is not unduely difficult
or expensive, indeed is the preferred choice by world plus
dog.

Seems like it is easier to do it via ethernet.
I think this page shows how.
http://www.razertech.com/edge/hardware/crossover/crossover.htm
All it requires is the crossover cable which should be real cheap
its just some wires crossed over.
Here is the proof £1+£1 P&P
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Crossover-Cat...715043732QQcategoryZ57188QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I actualy already have a nornal cable which I could use by cutting it open
and crosing it over my self, however the cable belonogs to my ISP and
they would want it back if I left them.

I beleive that then it might just be a question of 'configuring' the network
which may be easy enough to do, just a question of enabling permission
maybe.
When configured the hard drives on my other computer would appear on
the computer I was using as if they were there physically, and vice versa.
I have used a system like this before (but not set it up).
The only problem one computer does not have and ethernet port but I
think I just need to buy a card and insert it in the computer.
Also the old computer is W98 which might not be so capable as XP.
It also might not have networking capability in that fashion, I don't
know for sure.

 

[Bazzer Smith]

and very little trouble.

You haven't said anything about your cpu & motherboard unless it was in
some
previous post, but with a HD as small as 4GB, you can be assured that the
bios
will not handle an 80GB HD.

Just as well I didn't try then, I had subconsiously ruled it out (initally
anyway).

But it's money down the drain.

Explain why?
Why does the new computer have one if it is 'money down the drain'?

and that's the *only* connector on the modem?

No the modem has both but the old comp only has a USB connection.

That could be a number of things including the wrong driver for it being
installed.

Maybe but then you would not expect it to work for some disks and not
others (perhaps), and I mean disks of the same brand, some work, some don't.

Also it should work of a standard driver else it could never read its own
installation disk!!

 

[Robert Heiling]

While that is true, in the *4GB* drive era, the most common
(Intel OEM) boards did later provide bios updates to support
up to 128GB.

Sounds like you agree with my given odds though.

Funny thing is that I have trouble with that 4GB drive. Out in my garage is a
Gateway 2000 P-133 (P54C Pentium 3.3v), 1998 vintage, later upgraded to P-233
with a Promise kit. It ran with an 8.4GB WD drive max and, when it came to
running a 30GB drive, it was necessary to buy & use a Promise controller as
there was no upgrade to the AMI Bios and it was flashed for other purposes.

Bob

 

[Bazzer Smith]

While that is true, in the *4GB* drive era, the most common
(Intel OEM) boards did later provide bios updates to support
up to 128GB.

The original drive was 2gig then I put a 3 or 3.5gig in as master.
I don't think I will try it though, I have done quite a bit manually by not
but there is stilll a pile of really old stuff I could do but I expect
most of those disks are duffers by now.

 

[Robert Heiling]

Explain why?
Why does the new computer have one if it is 'money down the drain'?

It's only a waste for the old machine where you would never have another use for
it. I'm assuming you plan on retiring that one.

No the modem has both but the old comp only has a USB connection.

Ok. Then you can't use the ethernet cable approach without spending money.

Maybe but then you would not expect it to work for some disks and not
others (perhaps), and I mean disks of the same brand, some work, some don't.

But you said it made a difference if the drive was installed in a different
machine?

Also it should work of a standard driver else it could never read its own
installation disk!!

One would think so eh? I can't comment since I have no idea whatsoever what
installation processes were or were not performed.

Bob

 

[kony]

Sounds like you agree with my given odds though.

Funny thing is that I have trouble with that 4GB drive. Out in my garage is a
Gateway 2000 P-133 (P54C Pentium 3.3v), 1998 vintage, later upgraded to P-233
with a Promise kit. It ran with an 8.4GB WD drive max and, when it came to
running a 30GB drive, it was necessary to buy & use a Promise controller as
there was no upgrade to the AMI Bios and it was flashed for other purposes.

Ok, but consider that it was not typical to have a 4GB drive
in a P-133 system. 1-2GB was more common... 4GB was more of
the base config for P2 system which was what Gateway sold in
late '97 early '98 for the most part. I recall buying such
a system in '97 that had P2-233 and a 4GB WD drive that
failed about two months later and was replaced at that
point. I may even have the motherboard from that box in the
basement somewhere, was an Intel Atlanta AL440LX

 

[kony]

But you haven't any evidence such hardware exists. Which hardware?
Can you supply a link?
Otherwise thats of no help whatsoever.

I was under the impression you weren't in a 4th world
country. There are no network adapters (I don't recall,
doesn't at least one if not both systems have one already?)
or routers in your region for sale?

You should literally be able to go to any electronics shop
that has a reasonable stock of computer equipment and find
a router that would work. The remaining issue is only one
of finding the best price and I can't estimate what your
time is worth. Presuming you have local newspapers with
advertisments that might be one way to find a good price.

if you just want examples, here are some,
NICs,
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=100MB+PCI+network+adapter&hl=en&btnG=Search+Froogle
Routers,
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=802.11g+router&hl=en&btnG=Search

The key features that I would look for (given you express no
need for advanced feature sets) are;

- 100MB LAN (it is the default, practically all support
this)

- 4 or more port switch integral (again practically all
have this, see the pictures for how many RJ45 jacks it has)

- Wifi 802.11g (54Mbps) You have expressed no need but this
is such a common wireless protocol and adds little to the
cost in most cases, it is a feature worth having for any
possible future wireless needs when they arise, for example
a notebook system is a great way to make use of this if not
some remote system you can't or don't want to string cable
to.

Not for the moment it would just complicate things I think.

I suggest that it's only seemingly complicated because you
avoid doing it. For the most part it is automated, these
consumer grade routers are targeted at people doing the
exact same thing you are, hooking it up to a modem and two
(or more) systems in a lan. It is a good skill to know how
to do this and once you know it takes about 3 minutes to do
it. With a default windows installation it's already mostly
done, but the file folder on the old system would be
designated as shared with file sharing enabled. Google is a
wonderful tool to find how to do this quickly.

Ah a router so thats another $80 then unless you have a link
to prove otherwise, word are cheap I need evidence.

I'm getting a bit apathetic about proving this, if you want
to make things harder on yourself in the long run, go ahead
and do so.

 

[Bazzer Smith]

It's only a waste for the old machine where you would never have another
use for
it. I'm assuming you plan on retiring that one.

Probably but it was very good for 8 years or so but the bloated applications
do cripple it now.
Its find for well written software but there aint much of that about these
days.
Even some websites seriously slow it up, currys.co.uk is one, takes a
minute
to open a simple menu, but the java "do nothing" scrips is suspicious, they
sell
computers and I think they do it to encourage u to buy a new one!!

Ok. Then you can't use the ethernet cable approach without spending money.

True, but maybe only £5 and it could do with an ethernet port, someone told
me
it was less overhead on the computer but I doubt it makes much difference.

But you said it made a difference if the drive was installed in a
different
machine?

Yes in the old machine it reads 95% of my CD's in the new one it reads
about 35%. It should read the same %age in both IMO.

One would think so eh? I can't comment since I have no idea whatsoever
what
installation processes were or were not performed.

It's a CDRW and comes with its disk for NERO which it needs for burning
CD's. It should be able to *read* disks with a 'standard driver, otherwise
you could never
install nero.

 

[kony]

True, but maybe only £5 and it could do with an ethernet port, someone told
me
it was less overhead on the computer but I doubt it makes much difference.

You need to stop assuming you know something before even
trying it. USB is the last interface you should use for
anything if you have another option (for firewire, ATA,
SATA, PCI, PCI express, etc).

 

[Robert Heiling]

Ok, but consider that it was not typical to have a 4GB drive
in a P-133 system. 1-2GB was more common... 4GB was more of
the base config for P2 system which was what Gateway sold in
late '97 early '98 for the most part. I recall buying such
a system in '97 that had P2-233 and a 4GB WD drive that
failed about two months later and was replaced at that
point. I may even have the motherboard from that box in the
basement somewhere, was an Intel Atlanta AL440LX

That rang a bell and I did some checking. The m/b in this system is an Aladdin
BR0T bios, the predecessor 440FX I believe, and it's a bit older than I
remembered it being - purchased Aug 1995. The drives for it are a 1.6, 6.4, and
8.4GB, so the 6.4 & 8.4 must have been added later. It was a good system in its
time.

Bob

 

[Bazzer Smith]

I was under the impression you weren't in a 4th world
country. There are no network adapters (I don't recall,
doesn't at least one if not both systems have one already?)
or routers in your region for sale?

You should literally be able to go to any electronics shop
that has a reasonable stock of computer equipment and find
a router that would work. The remaining issue is only one
of finding the best price and I can't estimate what your
time is worth. Presuming you have local newspapers with
advertisments that might be one way to find a good price.

if you just want examples, here are some,
NICs,
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=100MB+PCI+network+adapter&hl=en&btnG=Search+Froogle
Routers,
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=802.11g+router&hl=en&btnG=Search

The key features that I would look for (given you express no
need for advanced feature sets) are;

- 100MB LAN (it is the default, practically all support
this)

- 4 or more port switch integral (again practically all
have this, see the pictures for how many RJ45 jacks it has)

- Wifi 802.11g (54Mbps) You have expressed no need but this
is such a common wireless protocol and adds little to the
cost in most cases, it is a feature worth having for any
possible future wireless needs when they arise, for example
a notebook system is a great way to make use of this if not
some remote system you can't or don't want to string cable
to.

I am not really famiiliar with the technology yet, even for
'network adapters' there is a huge range in price.

I just don't want to spend money and fiind I have wasted it thats all.

If I do go for a network I would spend some effort researching it
to get the best (value?) for me, that would take me some time.
Incidently wireless sounds very insecure to me!!

I suggest that it's only seemingly complicated because you
avoid doing it. For the most part it is automated, these
consumer grade routers are targeted at people doing the
exact same thing you are, hooking it up to a modem and two
(or more) systems in a lan. It is a good skill to know how
to do this and once you know it takes about 3 minutes to do
it. With a default windows installation it's already mostly
done, but the file folder on the old system would be
designated as shared with file sharing enabled. Google is a
wonderful tool to find how to do this quickly.

I know a lot of things turn out to be real simple when you have
done them once but sometimes when you google you pick up
on all the problems people have had. People tend to post about
problems more than thinks which went smoothly!!

I'm getting a bit apathetic about proving this, if you want
to make things harder on yourself in the long run, go ahead
and do so.

Not trying to make things hard, but at the moment my other
computer is a Cryix MII 300, would you spend money to network this?
The router would probably cost more than that computer is worth now!!!
So I effectively only have one computer and no real need for a network
at the moment. I was thinking of giving it away when I had tranferred
the data, I am only using itnow because the CD drive mysteriously works
better
in it, and obviously I am very familiar with it and all the data and
programs stored
on iit.
BAsically I want to get my CD data onto DVD's so I can bin the CD's.

 

[kony]

Not trying to make things hard, but at the moment my other
computer is a Cryix MII 300, would you spend money to network this?

Yes, a network adapter is about $5 (actually free for me, I
have plenty of 100Mb adapters lying around after upgrading
most of my lan to 1Gb. Having any system on which you
create and share data, or want internt access, be easily
connected, is worth the cost of a basic network adapter
($5).

The router would probably cost more than that computer is worth now!!!

Did you look around for deals on any?
I have backup routers that are new-in-box that I picked up
for about $10. If price is an issue, look for a deal on
one.

So I effectively only have one computer and no real need for a network
at the moment. I was thinking of giving it away when I had tranferred
the data, I am only using itnow because the CD drive mysteriously works
better
in it, and obviously I am very familiar with it and all the data and
programs stored
on iit.
BAsically I want to get my CD data onto DVD's so I can bin the CD's.

Ok, nobody is forcing you to have a LAN. I was only
suggesting the best arrangement for 2 or more systems. Even
so, you would still have more security on one system by
having it behind a router rather than direct modem
connection.

 

[Bazzer Smith]

Yes, a network adapter is about $5 (actually free for me, I
have plenty of 100Mb adapters lying around after upgrading
most of my lan to 1Gb. Having any system on which you
create and share data, or want internt access, be easily
connected, is worth the cost of a basic network adapter
($5).

I think I can get a card for £5
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?TabID=1&criteria=ethernet&ModuleNo=31868&doy=27m4

I assume utwill work in my mobo
http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/850.htm

Looks like I am looking at £30 (~$50) for a router from a similar shop.

I may try to do something with a crossover cable first before I spend
that kind of money, I only have one monitor at the moment anyway.

This looks lilke it could be useful
"Primarily used for straightforward networking of two PCs. Simply connect
the LAN ports of two PCs or laptops with a cross-over cable to create a
netwok
with no additional hub required"
So I could connect then for £10 in total

I would also have to look at compatability considerationsifI switch from
cable to ADSL.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?TabID=1&criteria=Network Cables&ModuleNo=47616&doy=27m4

Did you look around for deals on any?
I have backup routers that are new-in-box that I picked up
for about $10. If price is an issue, look for a deal on
one.




Ok, nobody is forcing you to have a LAN. I was only
suggesting the best arrangement for 2 or more systems. Even
so, you would still have more security on one system by
having it behind a router rather than direct modem
connection.

I am not entirely convnced it is more secure myself, there is still
a path through to your PC, afterall I am behind a 'sophisticated'
ISP and if thay can't protect me then who can?
Maybe they can't afford a router either :O) ?