New card or new system? help

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xyz

Current System

AMD Athalon 1600+
512 mb PC2100 DDR SD Ram
300w ATX Case
3D Prophet 2 Ti

I like to play Shooters. I've been getting along okay until the last few
months. I subscribe to PC Gamer and have been unable to play some of the
newest demos due to my inadequate video card. Should I upgrade everything
or can I get along by only getting a new video card? what do you recommend
for Doom3 , Halflife 2 , Far Cry etc.?

Thanks, Lisa
 
if u upgrade to win 2000 and get a descent graphics card then u will be able
to play far cry and doom 3, not sure about half life 2 though, look on
google for minimum system requirements. When u start playing far cry you
will be amazed, it shows what games of the future have in store graphics and
playability wise.
 
xyz said:
Current System

AMD Athalon 1600+
512 mb PC2100 DDR SD Ram
300w ATX Case
3D Prophet 2 Ti

I like to play Shooters. I've been getting along okay until the last few
months. I subscribe to PC Gamer and have been unable to play some of the
newest demos due to my inadequate video card. Should I upgrade everything
or can I get along by only getting a new video card? what do you recommend
for Doom3 , Halflife 2 , Far Cry etc.?

Thanks, Lisa


If you can handle missing out on some of the new tech coming out such as
PCI Express and DDR-2 RAM, etc., I'd say upgrade everything including the
power supply. I have no doubt that your processor is good enough for Far
Cry, Doom 3, and Half Life 2 if you don't have very high expectations for
graphics. If you did upgrade, I'd look at something around 3GHz (or
3000+) levels and at least a 9800 Pro video card, if not X800 Pro. 1GB of
PC-3200 RAM is a good idea if you take the total upgrade plunge. Make
sure the power supply is fairly beefy and of a decent brand name. I
wouldn't go lower than 430W these days.

If you don't want to do a major system overhaul at this point, a new video
card would at least extend the life of your current system. I don't know
how much longer the 1600+ will remain somewhat viable as a gaming
processor, but I suspect under a year. I guess it depends on part on what
you expect.

As far as the operating system goes, Windows 9x is unfortunately dying.
The new video cards like the X800 from ATI don't support it at all and the
newest Catalyst driver set for 98/ME is 4.3 as compared to 4.5 for Windows
2000 and XP. When I went to the store on the weekend looking around, I
even noticed that Thief 3 - Deadly Shadows does not support Windows 98 or
ME at all - it specifically says on the box that 2000 or XP is required.
I suspect this will start to become a trend. If Windows 98 is still
important to you, maybe keep your old system as it is and build a new box.

Cuzman is right to imply that you should see how high of a processor your
current motherboard can take. This might not be a bad idea either.
 
AMD Athalon 1600+
512 mb PC2100 DDR SD Ram
300w ATX Case
3D Prophet 2 Ti

I like to play Shooters. I've been getting along okay until the last few
months. I subscribe to PC Gamer and have been unable to play some of the
newest demos due to my inadequate video card. Should I upgrade everything
or can I get along by only getting a new video card? what do you recommend
for Doom3 , Halflife 2 , Far Cry etc.?

Why not just upgrade the graphcs card and see how you go? Then if it's still
poo, upgrade the rest .... or upgrade the rest later on. You'd be upgrading
the gfx card anyway, if you were to "upgrade everything".
 
newest demos due to my inadequate video card. Should I upgrade everything
or can I get along by only getting a new video card? what do you recommend
for Doom3 , Halflife 2 , Far Cry etc.?

My system is Athlon 2000XT with 1 gig ram on a Gigabyte
7ZXE ( VIA chipset ... ugh! ). The mobo was one of the
last of the 7ZXEs put out, so it runs fine. The CPU is clocked
around 1660 .. so I think we have about equivalent systems,
except I'm running XP. Video card is ATI Radeon 9000 128
Pro. I paid $64 for it just this year. It took some work to
figure out all the silly problems, but now I run Far Cry very
very well. As for Doom3 ?? What's that. It is never coming
out because Far Cry has stolen its thunder totally. As for
Half Life 2. I found the first Half Life to be a total bore
and the keyboard jumping to be a nuisance. Nothing will
convince me to buy Half Life2. It is out of date already.
I recommend you try to get XP, up the ram to 1 gig,
and pick up one of the ATI Radeon 9200 128 Pros
for about $80. Be sure to install the latest Catalyst
drivers ( 4.5 ), or you will have load and crash problems
with Far Cry. All of my other games work perfectly
... RTCW, MOHAA, Spearhead, etc, CoD. I have
no problems with any of them. Then for the future,
watch the Dell game computers ( don't buy one, just
watch ). Dell is starting to bundle the ATI 9800, and
I've never caught Dell pushing low end mobos like I
have caught Gateway doing for years. Still, I think
any vendor who "gets you" with the monitor and
low ram should be avoided until they clean up their
act. In the future, the Dell game computers might be
a good deal since they are bundling the video card.

johns
 
xyz said:
I should have also said that I'm still using Win 98. Would it help to
upgrade to XP? Lisa

*ANY* system that can be considered modern will benefit performancewise
from XP, in my experience, over any of the 16 bit Windows systems
(DOX>Win3.1, 95a,b,c, 98,SE, ME). In my own system, there have been far
fewer driver problems, fewer problems with software, games included.
I've been using XP Pro retail since Nov. 2001.

Summing up what others have said already; you can benefit from a faster
processor, more ram (faster if your mobo can use it), and new video
card. You don't really seem to have a lot of options open to you with
your mobo, but there are still a few.

http://www.epox.com/USA/product.asp?id=EP-8KHAplus Good ol EpoX still
supports it :)
You have the fastest ram you can use. One more 256 meg DIMM will give
you 768 megs, which is better of course. 512 is actually enough for XP,
though it starts to shine with 1 gig. What is the fastest Athlon XP
processor you can use at 266 mHz fsb?

Hm. Instead of all the arguements, try the new video card, one that
will be usable in a new motherboard too, just in case. Like a ATi 9800
Pro :)
McG.


 
" Epox 8KHA+ "


http://www.epox.org/products/mainboards/8khaplus/
http://www.epox.org/support/cpu-support.pdf

You'll see from the above sites that your motherboard can take a 266FSB
Thoroughbred Athlon XP 2600+. It might be easier and better value getting a
2400+ instead though, as production of the 266FSB 2600+ stopped a long time
ago and they come at a premium.

An upgrade to a good video card would see the biggest jump in gaming
performance. From the high-end cards, the Radeon 9800 Pro and the GeForce
FX5900 are pretty good value for money at the moment. If you wait a while
for the X800 XT and the 6800 to arrive, then the Radeon 9800XT and the
GeForce FX5950 Ultra may well come to $200 as well.

I would add another 512MB PC2100 last of all, as it might not give the same
jump in performance as the first two upgrades will. Even so, it would give
you more power for future games.

Once you've done the first two upgrades, sell your Athlon XP 1600+ and your
3D Prophet II Ti on eBay. It should near-enough cover the cost of a new
Athlon XP 2400+. An upgrade to an Athlon XP 2400+, Radeon 9800 Pro and 1GB
RAM could easily be done for $250 all-in.
 
I would not buy dell if they threw in a cow. Support sucks lamas. You are
better off building youre own that way you use the parts you want not there
crap .
 
You will need a considerably faster overall system to play Doom 3 and Half
Life 2. Just a video card will not do it.
 
Current System

AMD Athalon 1600+
512 mb PC2100 DDR SD Ram
300w ATX Case
3D Prophet 2 Ti

I like to play Shooters. I've been getting along okay until the last few
months. I subscribe to PC Gamer and have been unable to play some of the
newest demos due to my inadequate video card. Should I upgrade everything
or can I get along by only getting a new video card? what do you recommend
for Doom3 , Halflife 2 , Far Cry etc.?

While your CPU is okay... but for even games like UT2004 and Far
Cry... you're a bit on the slow end... a new video card will help
out a LOT but it'll be held back by your CPU.

What is your budget?

That will help a lot...

I say, plan on $1000 for awsome Half Life2, D3 and FarCry playabily...

$600 for PC (AMD 64) and $400 for video card.

And yes,,, for newer CPUs, such as AMD XPs (32bit) and up, you're
losing performance with using Windows98 (but Im not thrilled with Xp
either).


- - - - -
Remember: In the USA - it is dangeroud to draw or write about Heir Bush in a negative way. The police or SS are called, people threaten to kill you. (What country is this again?)

- 15yr old boy in Washington was disciplined for drawing such images.
- White House blows cover of an undercover agent because her husband said there were no WMD (before the USA started the war) - her job was finding terrorist. (This makes sense?)
God bless the land of the free. Where you can burn the Constitution... Ashcroft does it every day.
 
My system is Athlon 2000XT with 1 gig ram on a Gigabyte
7ZXE ( VIA chipset ... ugh! ). The mobo was one of the
last of the 7ZXEs put out, so it runs fine. The CPU is clocked

VIA chipset is fine.... while its not quite up there with Nforce, it
is solid and fast.
around 1660 .. so I think we have about equivalent systems,
except I'm running XP. Video card is ATI Radeon 9000 128
Pro. I paid $64 for it just this year. It took some work to
figure out all the silly problems, but now I run Far Cry very
very well. As for Doom3 ?? What's that. It is never coming
out because Far Cry has stolen its thunder totally. As for

ATI 9000 may run it fine by that card's standards (3 years old), but
its nothing to a 9800Pro, full detailed maxed out.

??? Doom3 is never coming out? That statement makes little sense.
There are always games coming out. How many WWII games came out in
the past 18 months? 3-4?

Doom3 should still look better than Far Cry, but it won't have the
SHOCK value anymore... same with HL2.
Half Life 2. I found the first Half Life to be a total bore
and the keyboard jumping to be a nuisance. Nothing will
convince me to buy Half Life2. It is out of date already.

The original HL is boring, the game concept is interesting, I got it
free from the stupid Steam Account with my ATI card... so I'm supposed
to get HL2 for free. But yeah, the STUPID thing that drove me away
from HL was spending 10 minutes moving little boxes to reach the
ceiling...!! How weak! Moving back and forth and doing much of
nothing... controls a bit more complicated than needed. I think I got
bored and stopped playing it when I got back to the main entrance with
the guard (Still deep underground) - er perhaps I took a lift to one
level up... not much more than that.

HL2, should and HOPEFULLY be better - as long as they don't bore us
with stupid puzzles. (Hence, I like games like UT2004).
I recommend you try to get XP, up the ram to 1 gig,
and pick up one of the ATI Radeon 9200 128 Pros
for about $80. Be sure to install the latest Catalyst
drivers ( 4.5 ), or you will have load and crash problems
with Far Cry. All of my other games work perfectly

9200Pro? Geez, pay $180~200 and get an ATI 9800Pro (256bit RAM) and
get about 4-5 times the performance. The 8500~9200 series is VERY
SLOW. Geez, $120 would get you at least a 9600Pro.
.. RTCW, MOHAA, Spearhead, etc, CoD. I have
no problems with any of them. Then for the future,

Wow... name 3 games running Quake 3 engine... duh, of course they RUN
well with your 9000 card. Working on a 4 year old gaming engine.

I played COD in 1600x1200 - all maxed out... great game, still easily
out-dated by UT2004, Fry Cry, etc.



- - - - -
Remember: In the USA - it is dangeroud to draw or write about Heir Bush in a negative way. The police or SS are called, people threaten to kill you. (What country is this again?)

- 15yr old boy in Washington was disciplined for drawing such images.
- White House blows cover of an undercover agent because her husband said there were no WMD (before the USA started the war) - her job was finding terrorist. (This makes sense?)
God bless the land of the free. Where you can burn the Constitution... Ashcroft does it every day.
 
Upgrade to XP Pro , and a GeForce4 Ti 4200. You will see a difference.

Leave 2000 alone, unless you are running your PC at work in a business
network. XP is a better multimedia platform, plus gaming.
 
Windows 98 is an end of life product from Microsoft. Most newer games wont
even include support for 98.
 
VIA chipset is fine.... while its not quite up there with Nforce, it
is solid and fast.

It didn't use to be. And Intel sued the crap out of them for
that reason. I fought with the zip drive slowness for about
a year until they fixed whatever the problem was. The early
7ZXE boards were total dogs, and I started sending them
back under warrantee. The later ones seem OK, but
those early VIA boards are out there as used systems.
Lord help anybody who is unlucky enough to get one.
ATI 9000 may run it fine by that card's standards (3 years old), but
its nothing to a 9800Pro, full detailed maxed out.

Yep. No contest. But as far as playability, I have Far Cry
really doing well. I've even figured out the trigger point
in Cooler that makes the apes show up when you find
Valerie.
Doom3 should still look better than Far Cry, but it won't have the
SHOCK value anymore... same with HL2.

I want the next Far Cry. I find the scenery alone keeps
me playing that game.
HL2, should and HOPEFULLY be better - as long as they don't bore us
with stupid puzzles. (Hence, I like games like UT2004).

The demo still has impossible keybd jumping. I hated that.
9200Pro? Geez, pay $180~200 and get an ATI 9800Pro (256bit RAM) and
get about 4-5 times the performance. The 8500~9200 series is VERY
SLOW. Geez, $120 would get you at least a 9600Pro.

Where? I'll get that now. I just tested a 9700XT that I build
up for somebody. Not bad at all.
Wow... name 3 games running Quake 3 engine... duh, of course they RUN
well with your 9000 card. Working on a 4 year old gaming engine.

Yes. I'm getting good at the Quake console too :-)
I played COD in 1600x1200 - all maxed out... great game, still easily
out-dated by UT2004, Fry Cry, etc.

Super game. I haven't seen UT2004. Will try to get demo.

johns
 
It didn't use to be. And Intel sued the crap out of them for
that reason. I fought with the zip drive slowness for about

Yeah... VIA was junk in the old days... I didn't start using AMD cpus
until VIA got their act together... the KT-133A.

Since then, I've not sold another INTEL system (I work on the ones
clients have bought, repairs / upgrades).
The demo still has impossible keybd jumping. I hated that.

HUH? Horrible controls can kill a game... HL was boring because of
its game play. Ever played that game called ONI? By the makers of
HALO... ONI looks very good... good artwork and such... but the
controls of the character were 3 times more complex than they needed
to be. Play GTA3 and compare that to ONI. Worse, ONI couldn't be
reconfigured by the user... which could have saved it... I never got
past the first level... I got bored.

HALO shows Bungie's stupidity still... the game is a good single
player... even with its bland graphics and a few crappy level designs.
But its multiplayer is the worst. No skins... crappy TEXT CHAT, lack
of options and feature sets. Lame maps... out of 20 maps... only 2-3
good maps that are PLAYABLE... And the DEMO has the best map out of
the game... hence, I tell people, the DEMO is all that is needed.

Play the UT2004 demo, it smokes HALO (as a multiplayer) in every way.
About 210mb. The Yahoo game server is fastest (Follow the link from
the Unreal.com site)
Where? I'll get that now. I just tested a 9700XT that I build
up for somebody. Not bad at all.

www.priceatch.com

Down to $170 - but this is most likly the confusing BS 128bit version.
(If I refine the search for 256bit RAM, the price is $204).

Super game. I haven't seen UT2004. Will try to get demo.

The game rocks... the full version comes with more 100maps.

Play with its mods.
 
Darthy said:
Yeah... VIA was junk in the old days... I didn't start using AMD cpus
until VIA got their act together... the KT-133A.

Since then, I've not sold another INTEL system (I work on the ones
clients have bought, repairs / upgrades).


HUH? Horrible controls can kill a game... HL was boring because of
its game play. Ever played that game called ONI? By the makers of
HALO... ONI looks very good... good artwork and such... but the
controls of the character were 3 times more complex than they needed
to be. Play GTA3 and compare that to ONI. Worse, ONI couldn't be
reconfigured by the user... which could have saved it... I never got
past the first level... I got bored.

HALO shows Bungie's stupidity still... the game is a good single
player... even with its bland graphics and a few crappy level designs.
But its multiplayer is the worst. No skins... crappy TEXT CHAT, lack
of options and feature sets. Lame maps... out of 20 maps... only 2-3
good maps that are PLAYABLE... And the DEMO has the best map out of
the game... hence, I tell people, the DEMO is all that is needed.

We're all entitled to our own opinions Darthy, so here's mine about
these two games:
I like Halo MP, specifically I love Blood Gulch in multiplayer. I don't
play the campaign at all, the (to me) sheer arcadiness of the fights is
a bore. Multiplayer of course carries the Human element. Add to that
smooth gameplay, great sound and graphics, vehicles and a nice variety
of firepower, it made for a year of good multiplayer fun. I rarely
dropped into another server, I ran my own 99% of the time and it still
gets full quick :) They simply make it very difficult to mod the game,
create new maps or modify old ones. Most folks get tired of even my
Blood Gulch server after a few hours. I never do :)
UT2004 is a lot of fun too. It provides me some fun with botmatches as
well as multiplayer LAN and internet games. I like the Team
Deathmatch, and Onslaught. Yet there is something not quite so 'right'
about it, the FOV is a little off, character speed is too quick. It's
something about its scaling, and Unreal, Unreal Tournament were affected
the same way. I'm speaking of the way speed is scaled to size/distance.
Other than that, it's great too! And UT2K4 has a huge variety of maps
and even models now.
McG.
 
We're all entitled to our own opinions Darthy, so here's mine about
these two games:

Yes, we are... sometimes ;)

I like HALO in its own way, okay? But the game is nowhere is "great"
as its hyped up to be. There are some FACTS with the problems with
HALO.

1 - Graphics - substandard for a 2003 release game, it looks vey bland
even compared to COD. The graphics are simple... not even 1/4 the
detail in games like UT2004.

2 - Gaming Engine - very slow. The game requires far more horse power
than the output we get. In any Videocard group, people are bitching
about its game play.

3 - MP, lacking a lot of required tools and options that are found in
OLD games like UT-classic (2000). No skins, even though if the
developer had SKILLZ, they could have made the dozen or so NPCs into
playable characters for MP. Thats weak and stupid having everyone
looks the same. Also, it took many patches before they fixed the
problem with the TKers being punished, rather than the victim... of
course, to bad for those playing the "demo" where 1-2 Tkers can
totally ruin a GOOD server with people trying to KILL the TKers...
STUPID STUPID STUPID. The game was never worth the $50.
PS: UT2004 has about 7 RACE classes with about 8 skins types per
class. (Robots, aliens, humans, etc)

4 - MAPS.... 2-3 good maps... vs 100 huge maps... or at least
detailed and playable.
I like Halo MP, specifically I love Blood Gulch in multiplayer. I don't
play the campaign at all, the (to me) sheer arcadiness of the fights is

As you said it yourself... Blood Gulch... the only map really worth
playing in HALO... hence, the DEMO is enough, the full game has a few
more toys... but BLAH. But a single map is weak and boring... The
included map with the UT2004 demo for onslaught is about 4-5 times
bigger than BLOOD-G - and its not even the BIGGEST.
a bore. Multiplayer of course carries the Human element. Add to that
smooth gameplay, great sound and graphics, vehicles and a nice variety
of firepower, it made for a year of good multiplayer fun. I rarely

Smooth & Graphics? Play on a TI4200 or ATI 9600Pro card and higher...
Halo is bland... studders a lot... and can't handle the load of a real
MP game engine... try playing 32 people on HALO? FInding 16players
in UT2004 is easy... but in HALO, going past 4 players gets harder and
harder as the lag tends to get worse. UT2004 has more VECs and
weapons... The wheeled VECS in UT2004 have STUPID controls (HALO's
is much better) which I have addressed with the developer and on their
message boards... hopefully they will PATCH those up to be more fun.
But hey, unlike HALO - the HUMAN element is that you can blow off body
parts... with weapons or VECs...

Also the JET and hover bike in UT2004 totally SMOKE's HALO's gay
purple thingies. They move alot faster and more manuverable...
espeically the bike... The "GHOST" is pure crap! COmpared to the
Manta's abilities (besides that 2 more TEAM players can JUMP on and
fire while hangine on). The Jet is UT 2004 totall rocks... Also... I
put bombs on the VECS (mine) - so if I lose them or an enemy STEALS
them, I push the little red button! LOL!! That shock on those
people's faces when they take off in a jet and them POW!!! (I even
put the gernade bombs on their OWN vecs)... hilaous!!

NOthing like that in HALO... (but its a different game, thank god)
dropped into another server, I ran my own 99% of the time and it still
gets full quick :) They simply make it very difficult to mod the game,
create new maps or modify old ones. Most folks get tired of even my
Blood Gulch server after a few hours. I never do :)

Its one map... it gets borning... but yes, I spend over a hunderd
hours playing that map online... When UT2004 came out, HALO was
quickly retired. But being the SERVER/HOST - you are also getting
the good end of the stick... try from the other side. Being the HOST,
your kill abilities are a LOT better... the developer stupidly screwed
this up and so your'er cheating in a sense. This is a known design
bug in HALO.
UT2004 is a lot of fun too. It provides me some fun with botmatches as
well as multiplayer LAN and internet games. I like the Team
Deathmatch, and Onslaught. Yet there is something not quite so 'right'
about it, the FOV is a little off, character speed is too quick. It's

HALO is too slow for me... Even with UT2004, I pump up the action a
bit more. With UT2004, you can easily ADJUST the game speed and the
FOV... so your excuse is? Just check the user settings... Its VAST
and easy to use, unlike HALOs.
something about its scaling, and Unreal, Unreal Tournament were affected
the same way. I'm speaking of the way speed is scaled to size/distance.
Other than that, it's great too! And UT2K4 has a huge variety of maps
and even models now.

And its still just a NEW game... Do you have the full version?


I like HALO in its own way... I am a FAIR person... HALO doesn't
suck... it has issues, as does UT2004. Compare the slightly earlier
released game, Unreal2 - which has FAR better graphics than HALO...
Both are very much the same type of game even, but HALO has better
music and voice actors and the story and "world" is done a lot better
than Unreal 2.

Graphics do NOT always make a game.


- - - - -
Remember: In the USA - it is dangeroud to draw or write about Heir Bush in a negative way. The police or SS are called, people threaten to kill you. (What country is this again?)

- 15yr old boy in Washington was disciplined for drawing such images.
- White House blows cover of an undercover agent because her husband said there were no WMD (before the USA started the war) - her job was finding terrorist. (This makes sense?)
God bless the land of the free. Where you can burn the Constitution... Ashcroft does it every day.
 
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