Networks and MM2

[John Kelly]

To me, network aware does Not Imply multi-user capabilities. I see the two
as separate and distinct.

I dont care what it means to you, you have already posted the qualified
comments of two world authorities on wherether mo0vie maker is network aware
or not...YOU ADMITTED THAT IT IS NOT....no amount of "To me, network
awar...." counts...IT IS NOT NETWORK AWARE...LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT !!!

I must have missed that...was that the message that was mysteriously
deleted
after one response? To set your mind at ease, I have not been tutored in
what to say to you. There is no conspiracy, no grand collaboration going
on
behind the scenes.

REALLY !!! the message is still on the server as far as I can see.

Have you noticed, you are now almost down to the level of the others...a
complete failure to prove your augument has reduced you to attacking the
person rather than what he says??? Was that not one of your opening
antagonist remarks so me way back.....

I'll repeat my statement since the details matter here. Network operating
system software handles file locking and user permissions. Period. In
particular, I'm thinking about NT and its siblings although Linux also
supports it. Record locking is NOT handled by the OS...but SQL Server
handles record locking just fine, so it must be network aware, right?

And for movie maker to work in that environment that Server Software, as I
stated before, has to know what the requirements of movie maker are...thats
why I chalenged you then and do again right now to provide details of any
server software that knows those requirements and I will then get a report
on that softwares abilities.....that software must know all about the
program, its collections file and know that there are more than one
instance and maintain the contents of the database called the Collections
File.

If you like I can repost this message a few times so that there is a chance
you will read all of it.

I'm sure PapaJohn is perfectly capable of defending himself if he desires.
Me, I just came for enlightenment. Which I have achieved.

yes well there you go again, you must be very new in here otherwise you
would realise that papajohn never defends anything....he has only replied to
me once when I challenged him, I cant remember the exact words without going
to look them up, but it amounted to ... I dont care if a user is advertising
pornographic material in here, its not my place. (That was just after he
sent me a private email saying that both he and I could not run this
newsgroup together...good Eh??)

As you did not reply to another question I asked...What are you an MVP
of?????

You are grabbing at straws. You have provided this thread with two
authoritive statements that show I am correct, they show that Mr. Brown
takes bad advice from an unnamed mvp lead, you have demonstrated that
papajohn is yet again clueless and yet you still persist in trying to save
face.....all you are doing is creating a bigger hole for you and the rest of
them to jump into.

PAPAJOHN DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT

AN UNNAMED MVP LEAD DOES NOT SEEM TO KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT...IF HE
EVEN EXISTS THAT IS

YOU HAVE SHOWN THAT OTHER AUTHORITIES WOULD NOT CONSIDER IT TO BE NETWORK
AWARE

MOVIE MAKER IS NOT NETWORK AWARE

What part of this progression are you unable to grasp???

For heavens sake shut up before everyone gets to realise what the quality of
your remarks actualy are.

 

[Dana Cline - MVP]

I dont care what it means to you, you have already posted the qualified

comments of two world authorities on wherether mo0vie maker is network aware
or not...YOU ADMITTED THAT IT IS NOT....no amount of "To me, network
awar...." counts...IT IS NOT NETWORK AWARE...LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT !!!

And as I said several times, everyone seems to have different definitions of
what network aware means. Live with that.

And for movie maker to work in that environment that Server Software, as I
stated before, has to know what the requirements of movie maker are...thats
why I chalenged you then and do again right now to provide details of any
server software that knows those requirements

Whether MM is network aware or not depends on MM, not on the server. As far
as I'm aware, servers don't do what you seem to think they should. That's
left up to the app.

yes well there you go again, you must be very new in here otherwise you
would realise that papajohn never defends anything

Must be, as I didn't realize that.

As you did not reply to another question I asked...What are you an MVP
of?????

Sorry, must have missed that. I'm an MVP of HTML Help Systems (formerly
WinHelp systems). You can get more info at www.mvps.org or my site
www.logicsmith.com.

You are grabbing at straws. You have provided this thread with two
authoritive statements that show I am correct

I also mentioned that there are plenty of definitions out there...not just
the two from these two guys. I just happened to quote from these two guys
because their articles were in the first page of search results and I didn't
have time to pull up every reference.

Out of curiosity, do you write software?

Dana Cline - MVP

 

[Dana Cline - MVP]

Two leading authorities are quite clear that Movie Maker can not be

considered a network aware program.

I'd consider Tim O'Reilly an authority. Never heard of the other guy.

are you now going to suggest that
somewhere there might be a contrary opinion if only you could find it,
perhaps maybe, if the wind is in the right direction, or, because you are an
mvp and embarrased to be so known????

Yes, I'm suggesting that there are contrary opinions. I didn't spend that
much time looking. It's not like I don't have work to do...

I already knew the remark was stupid as were the people who tried
to support it.

OK, can I set the record straight here? By YOUR definition, as well as two
other guys I pulled up with Google, MM is not network aware. There. However,
by other definitions, it may be. Quick, succinct, to the point. My
definition is irrelevant.

Dana Cline - MVP

 

[John Kelly]

Hello again to the person who is tired of this thread,

And as I said several times, everyone seems to have different definitions
of
what network aware means. Live with that.

You say they have, but have you proved that they differ in any substantial
way from the two authorities you quoted? Accepting that people around the
world may express themselves in slightly differing ways, have you found ONE
definition that can show that, specifiaclly, Movie Maker is Network
Aware......or are we still in the realm of wishfull thinking and changing
aour stance dependent upon which way the wind blows.....

Whether MM is network aware or not depends on MM, not on the server. As
far
as I'm aware, servers don't do what you seem to think they should. That's
left up to the app.

Oh for gods sake, you are getting more and more rediculous.....for heavens
sake shut up, you are acting like some kind of idiot...you have already
quoted the authority on what makes an application network aware, do you have
short term memory loss??? That is a serious question by the way. And do you
realise that your above remark is circular???? Do you realise you are
demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge of server systems????

Sorry, must have missed that. I'm an MVP of HTML Help Systems (formerly
WinHelp systems). You can get more info at www.mvps.org or my site
www.logicsmith.com.

yes, you seem to miss quite a lot dont you, including what you said
previously....

I also mentioned that there are plenty of definitions out there...not just
the two from these two guys. I just happened to quote from these two guys
because their articles were in the first page of search results and I
didn't
have time to pull up every reference.

Yes you did, you said that MAYBE one of them will contodict and make movie
maker network aware for you...and I am certain that if you ever find one
that you will then say that IT is more authoritive than all of the
overwhelming evidence to the contrary......

Out of curiosity, do you write software?

Yes, My last program sells for £500.00 per copy and is network aware. The
program before that sells at £1,000.00 per copy and is network aware...if
you had bothered to read prior messages in here you would also have seen
that I have published material in three continents...New South Wales, USA
and the UK The last program I wrote was also nominated as "Best Practise"
in the heavy goods vehicle management series to the Department of Trade &
Industry in the UK Previous network aware programs include CPAS (Crime
Pattern Analysis) which is a Geo-Demographic application marrying up
database of a wide variety into one homogenous visual system that is used
all over the UK. It has also been reported on in the Science Journals of
the Police Scientific Research & Development Branch of the UK Government
and subsequentlty taken on board in various states of the USA and Australia

Does any of that make any difference to the fact that Movie Maker is NOT
network aware, or do you want to come down to the level you claim I am at
and start attacking the person rather than the augument.

If you hope that I will eventually get tired of this, you have quite a
surprise coming. Movie Maker is NOT network aware and I will keep repeating
that until you go away...you know, the you that has alredy admitted that
two world authorities make it quite clear that Movie Maker is NOT network
aware.....OK???

 

[John Kelly]

I'd consider Tim O'Reilly an authority. Never heard of the other guy.

HOORAY, yet another addmision that you are wrong....Movie Maker is NOT
network aware

Yes, I'm suggesting that there are contrary opinions. I didn't spend that
much time looking. It's not like I don't have work to do...

yes, you seem to be full of suggestions but the only evidence you can
produce is that you are in fact WRONG...Movie Maker is NOT network
aware.......

OK, can I set the record straight here? By YOUR definition, as well as two
other guys I pulled up with Google, MM is not network aware. There.
However,
by other definitions, it may be. Quick, succinct, to the point. My
definition is irrelevant.

Twoddle....you have found NO EVIDENCE that can supoport your augument. Movie
Maker is NOT network aware...period

 

[John Eddy [MSFT]]

hello Mr. Eddy,

With regard to your implied insult....I take great exception to your
comments and look forward to an apology in here and quite quickly...

John,

I apologize for any offense you may have taken.

in the
meantime one of your mvp's DANA wrote....

Unless you are defining 'your' as Microsoft's, I will again remind you that
I am not involved in the MVP Program any more.

Also, I'd point out that that is not all Dana (he is no more DANA than you
or I are JOHN) wrote. I do believe he finished with the following:

Google had literally hundreds of hits, with those hits offering a
bewildering array of definitions of "network aware". Some of which MM might
meet.

According to J. Bollinger, Institut Fur Computer Systeme, Zurich,
"Applications that can deal with changes in the network environment are
called network-aware. A network-aware application attempts to adjust its
resource demands in response to network performance variations."

By this definition, MM certainly is not network aware.

Tim O'Reilly, at http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/3422, postulates that
there are more than a handful of criteria that define "network awareness".
MM doesn't seem to meet any of them.


From this you can see that I AM CORRECT, all of your bully boys are
INCORRECT and nothing they did has changed my view.

"My" bully boys? John, I am deeply insulted by that and I expect an
apology. If you do not wish to post it here, you are more than welcome to
mail me directly.

John Eddy
Microsoft Newsgroups Administrator

 

[John Kelly]

John,

I apologize for any offense you may have taken.

In that case I apologies for any offence you may have taken.

The fact remains though that as the administrator you have failed in the
duty of controlling the obviously orchestrated attack( where in almost EVERY
message there was nothing constructive said, indeed even mentioned regarding
the validity or otherwise of papajohns remarks)

It is significant that the result is always the same when someone dares to
point out that papajohn is wrong. I used to do so in a polite way, I even
used to send him private emails pointing out what was wrong, I have sent him
private emails assuring him that it was not personal and was intended only
to help him out....the consequence of any correction to remarks made by
papajohn was and still is, EXCESSIVE, INTIMIDATING, INSULTING and COMPLETLY
DEVOID OF CONTROL by you the Newsgroup Administrator or any predecessor.

It is also significant that it stops in an instant......its clear that it is
orchestrated, I do not care who by, I do care that your only interest in
this thread was trivial and ignored the much greater problem of the bully
boys. It is fortunate for me that it is all a matter of public record. I am
sure that your employers would, when taking the long view on what is
continually occuring will wonder why you had such a narrow view on all of
these events.

I am sure that all of this will occur again when anyone dares to contradict
him, I will watch with interest on how long it continues before you take the
appropriate action.

 

[John Kelly]

Hello Again,

I missed the following...........

Also, I'd point out that that is not all Dana (he is no more DANA than you

or I are JOHN) wrote. I do believe he finished with the following:

Google had literally hundreds of hits, with those hits offering a
bewildering array of definitions of "network aware". Some of which MM
might
meet.

I do not understand the first part of your remark, I can not make any sense
out of it.

As far as the repeated remark that google found lots of entries, I think we
are all aware of just how good these search engines actually are...it is
often the case that 50% of the results can be thrown away because they are
no good!!! Out of what is left who is to say what they contain...they may
well all say the same as those two authorities dana produced and who by his
words clearly indicated that Movie Maker is NOT network aware.

When you can prove that movie maker is network aware I will accept that. I
am not worried about that outcome....its never going to happen. Please read
again what dana said................

Its common sense that movie maker is not network aware, there is nothing
about the program that is related to being network aware, school teachers in
the USA who have tried to use it under the mvp papajohns guidance have
failed to make it work properly in a network environment....it destroys part
of its own data when you do that...there is a logical progression here that
can';t escape any ones notice....Movie Maker is NOT network aware....period

With all of the bother this thread has caused it is also significant that
none of you can produce a programmer who is works for you, who is prepared
to be identified in public, who is responsible for a significant amount of
the code and who is prepared to commit his reputation to the validity of the
statement that the program is network aware.