.NET cartoonish says businessman--valid point, or sour grapes?

  • Thread starter Thread starter RayLopez99
  • Start date Start date
You need to stop guessing.

Here's an older article (2006) about NYSE's backup power evolution.http://m.csemag.com/index.php?id=2832&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=23634&cH...

Here's a much newer article ...http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/06/30/nyses-data-for...

regards
A.G.
Click to expand...

Thanks but these links are just fluff. The only thing of interest was
"N+2" reliability which Googling I found "N-1" means existing power
must be able to also handle a previous line that went down, so N+2
must mean if two power systems fail, you'll still have backup maybe?

In any event, see my reply to Arne V. I'm still not 100% sure how
long these data centers can hold out on diesel fuel. In the MSFT
YouTube video they are vague, simply saying they have redundant backup
so if a site went down you could still access other sites--mirrors
maybe?--but you would I think access stale (yesterday's) data.

Just guessing, I would imagine they have enough fuel for a couple of
days-- (at best--maybe realistically only 12 to 24 hours)-- using
auxiliary diesel generators, and, as I said to Arne V, the MSFT Azure
training video I saw said 30 minutes of fuel cell / battery backup
before the data center switches to auxiliary diesel generators, but
they never did say how long these auxiliary generators would last.
Also they were deliberately vague on security, in fact they said
(Microsoft training video said) "we cannot discuss security for
obvious reasons but we have very tight security around all our Azure
data center facilities". Even the map of Azure data centers was
vague--on purpose--though one is apparently inside the city of
Chicago.

RL
 
Thanks but these links are just fluff. The only thing of interest was
"N+2" reliability which Googling I found "N-1" means existing power
must be able to also handle a previous line that went down, so N+2
must mean if two power systems fail, you'll still have backup maybe?

In any event, see my reply to Arne V. I'm still not 100% sure how
long these data centers can hold out on diesel fuel.
Click to expand...

Fuel consumption is determined by the load.
An "Approximate Diesel Fuel Consumption Chart" can be found at
http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Diesel_Fuel_Consumption.aspx
In the MSFT
YouTube video they are vague, simply saying they have redundant backup
so if a site went down you could still access other sites--mirrors
maybe?--but you would I think access stale (yesterday's) data.
Just guessing, I would imagine they have enough fuel for a couple of
days-- (at best--maybe realistically only 12 to 24 hours)-- using
auxiliary diesel generators,
Click to expand...

Didn't I tell you to stop guessing? A large megawatt generators' fuel
tank holds thousands of gallons. Multiple layers of power source
redundancy will at minimum provide days of service at full load.
Additional fuel can be stored on site.

- quote from one of the 'fluff' articles -
The utility feeds are backed up by banks of generators and a large
supply of on-site diesel fuel.
- end quote -
and, as I said to Arne V, the MSFT Azure
training video I saw said 30 minutes of fuel cell / battery backup
before the data center switches to auxiliary diesel generators, but
they never did say how long these auxiliary generators would last.
Click to expand...

The worst case scenario is having to shut down the system before
running out of fuel. Even so there will be plenty of time to do so
gracefully.

A bigger question involves the state of the infrastructure if the
commercial grid is disrupted for days or weeks. Being up and running
is fine business but pointless without a functioning external
infrastructure.

- snip -

Your concerns about such matters are needlessly exaggerated. If you're
going to keep guessing at least use a search engine to help educate
your guesses. Otherwise you're just making things up.

regards
A.G.
 
In any event, see my reply to Arne V. I'm still not 100% sure how
long these data centers can hold out on diesel fuel.
Click to expand...

Often details about data center are not given for security reasons.

But you can be sure that they have diesel for a reasonable long
period.
In the MSFT
YouTube video they are vague, simply saying they have redundant backup
so if a site went down you could still access other sites--mirrors
maybe?--but you would I think access stale (yesterday's) data.
Click to expand...

No - critical data get replicated in realtime - not critical
data get replicated in near realtime.
Just guessing, I would imagine they have enough fuel for a couple of
days-- (at best--maybe realistically only 12 to 24 hours)--
Click to expand...

More. Weeks possible months.
using
auxiliary diesel generators, and, as I said to Arne V, the MSFT Azure
training video I saw said 30 minutes of fuel cell / battery backup
before the data center switches to auxiliary diesel generators,
Click to expand...

30 minutes is plenty of time to get the generators running.
but
they never did say how long these auxiliary generators would last.
Click to expand...

My guess is that the huge data centers like Azure would last longer
than a small dedicated data center like LSE.
Also they were deliberately vague on security, in fact they said
(Microsoft training video said) "we cannot discuss security for
obvious reasons but we have very tight security around all our Azure
data center facilities". Even the map of Azure data centers was
vague--on purpose--though one is apparently inside the city of
Chicago.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azure_Services_Platform#Datacenters

Arne
 
You mean developer architect. The devs doing the coding are a team of
teens from India no doubt.
Click to expand...

Not likely.

The teen part.

The India part is pretty close.

The replaced LSE solution was developed by Accenture India and
MilleniumIT that developed the new system is based in Sri Lanka.
What was impressive in the video at MSFT's site (not the YouTube,
which is generic) was the statement that they could run for about a
half hour before they needed auxiliary diesel generators. That's why
I mentioned "15 minutes". As stated in the Youtube video above, these
data centers suck so much power they need special sources of power--
this one in the Youtube video is next to a hydroelectric power plant.
And they are run at 95F (35C) even with air conditioning. Microsoft
further has modules that fit on lorries (trucks) and can be self-
contained so you can scale a data center by parking these modules next
to existing such modules.
Click to expand...

All vendors have these today.

Arne
 
Your concerns about such matters are needlessly exaggerated. If you're
going to keep guessing at least use a search engine to help educate
your guesses. Otherwise you're just making things up.
Click to expand...

Come up with a specific time and I'll believe you. Otherwise you're
just flailing, as is typical of you.

RL
 
No - critical data get replicated in realtime - not critical
data get replicated in near realtime.
Click to expand...

Just curious, if you know, what would be an example of critical data
vs non critical data? A completed database transaction (http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_transaction) is clearly critical I
would guess. Even a half-completed transaction already made against
the dB is critical (since it's the programmers responsibility to make
sure a transaction is completed fully--using try/catch and suitable
operators like CompletedEvent etc) and if they don't, the database
simply should record a half-completed event). Non-critical--perhaps
the connection state/string?

More. Weeks possible months.
Click to expand...

Perhaps days and maybe a week I can agree on, but like you say it's
all kept secret for security reasons.

RL
 
Not likely.

The teen part.

The India part is pretty close.

The replaced LSE solution was developed by Accenture India and
MilleniumIT that developed the new system is based in Sri Lanka.
Click to expand...

I bet they pay these programmers around USD $20k, a lot cheaper than
the $54k they pay average US programmers (http://www1.salary.com/
Programmer-I-salary.html)

At $20k, you have to love your work to work for that little in the
high-cost West, but in a developing country like India that's a good
wage.

Reminds me, I should move to India.

RL
 
Come up with a specific time and I'll believe you. Otherwise you're
just flailing, as is typical of you.
Click to expand...
Flailing? You make me laugh.

OK here's a time you : 27 days 7 hours 40 minutes and 48 seconds
Here's another time : 29 days 12 hours 43 minutes and 12 seconds
Now you can believe me twice as much when I say just you're just
making things up.

If you're truly curious about contingency planning, you should do your
own research. I believe you'll find that disaster recovery plans,
including LSE's, are much more refined than what your guesses
perceive. A related topic is business interruption insurance.

Here is a question for you to guess at : How long should the LSE be
able to run on backup power?

regards
A.G.
 
Flailing? You make me laugh.

OK here's a time you : 27 days 7 hours 40 minutes and 48 seconds
Here's another time : 29 days 12 hours 43 minutes and 12 seconds
Now you can believe me twice as much when I say just you're just
making things up.
Click to expand...

What is this? 29 days what, since you wife's last period?

If you're truly curious about contingency planning, you should do your
own research. I believe you'll find that disaster recovery plans,
including LSE's, are much more refined than what your guesses
perceive. A related topic is business interruption insurance.

Here is a question for you to guess at : How long should the LSE be
able to run on backup power?
Click to expand...

I would say a few days at most. It's unlikely the London utilities
company would be so bad it could not turn on power after a few days.

RL
 
Just curious, if you know, what would be an example of critical data
vs non critical data? A completed database transaction (http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_transaction) is clearly critical I
would guess.
Click to expand...

Depends somewhat on the content of the database.
Perhaps days and maybe a week I can agree on,
Click to expand...

The extra cost of storing diesel for a longer time is not that big.

Arne
 
I bet they pay these programmers around USD $20k, a lot cheaper than
the $54k they pay average US programmers (http://www1.salary.com/
Programmer-I-salary.html)

At $20k, you have to love your work to work for that little in the
high-cost West, but in a developing country like India that's a good
wage.

Reminds me, I should move to India.
Click to expand...

As far as I know then it is not easy for someone not born
in India to get a work permit.

Arne
 
I would say a few days at most. It's unlikely the London utilities
company would be so bad it could not turn on power after a few days.
Click to expand...

I would expect a normal data center to have for 1-2 days, but I would
expect a LSE data center to have for a lot more.

But I don't know anything about what they actually have.

Arne
 
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