More on dotnet (O.T.)

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Corliss
  • Start date Start date
J

John Corliss

Warning: this post contains strong language because I feel very
strongly about what it discusses.
________________________________________
Recently I posted this link:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframew...rary/en-us/dnguinet/html/drguinet0_update.asp

or, you can use this shorter one:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?C3FE52F96

The link is to an article which finally and precisely lays out M$'s
motivation behind the huge ".NET" project. It really alarms me that
there has been so much (IMO) duplicity and nebulosity on M$'s part
regarding exactly what the HELL dotnet really is, but it should be
obvious to everybody by now that this is what Microsoft really excels
at. That and ripping off ideas (again, IMO). They're unable to be that
way however, when not addressing end users but rather programmers who
need to know what's really going on. The article at the link is
exactly that- addressed to programmers, not the end users who must be
kept in the dark.

The article at the link is sponsored by Microsoft, but in the first
few paragraphs you're supposed to believe that the author, this "Dr.
GUI", is making fun of Microsoft and is totally unbiased. Nothing
could be further from the truth since "Dr. GUI" is nothing but a
Microsoft employee writing for the Microsoft Developer's Network
(http://msdn.microsoft.com).

Now I've read most of this article and have noted the following
alarming portions (I added the asterisks):

*******************************
"Consider some of the trends in our industry. Many folks are moving
from using isolated PCs to using both PCs and a plethora of devices
connected to multiple applications simultaneously *via the Internet,
wired and wireless, baseband and broadband*. They're starting to
expect their important information to be available wherever they go,
on whatever device they use, in a form appropriate for that device.
And since information is available over the Internet, they'd like to
be able to combine raw data from multiple sources into meaningful
information. ***Finally, they expect to be able to use software
without the hassles of installation and upgrades***—and they expect
this to be much more reliable than PCs have ever been in the past."
*******************************


This is just so much euphemistic bullshit on Microsoft's part. It's an
attempt to convince the business world and the home user that they
really don't want to have software installed on their computers. A
comparable example is how they've tried to convince the courts that we
all need to have their shitty browser integrated into all versions of
their OS. In fact, having the browser integrated into all versions of
their OS further serves their goal of having all software become a
rented service rather than a product.

This next statement clinches my conviction that Microcrap is going to
**** us all in the end:


*******************************
"That and the .NET runtime's security and versioning features also
increase reliability and enable software to be ******sold as a service
rather than a product.******"
*******************************


In conjunction with the "Trusted Computing Initiative", Microsoft's
goal is to make sure that all computers are online all the time, that
there is no software installed on your computer, that you can't WRITE
software that your computer can use, and that the only software you
can use is RENTED (temporarily downloaded and installed on your
computer from the internet for a fee) ONLY FROM THEM.

Which way to the 55 gallon drum of vasoline?

**** Microsoft and all of the companies that are it's toadies (so far
I list Intel, AMD, Phoenix, HP/Compac and I'm sure there are MANY MANY
others.) It's time to start looking for alternatives.
 
**** Microsoft and all of the companies that are it's toadies (so far
I list Intel, AMD, Phoenix, HP/Compac and I'm sure there are MANY MANY
others.) It's time to start looking for alternatives.

You'll find a more comprehensive list at www.antitcpa.org (or .com, can't
remember which).

There's been a stink kicking up about this since it was first heard about,
both by Anti TCPA (aka TCG, TCI). Myself included, am completely against
this as it is bsically going to phase out (or rather, destroy) freeware and
shareware authors alike, unless such, can afford the pathetically expensive
licence fee required (software without a licence, WILL NOT run on any
computer with this technology, in some cases, it won't even install!!!).

--

Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
 
John,

Can't say that I agree with your opinions (and I'm to old to work for MS...)
but your points probably would have been more effective and credible had you
left the profanity out. Hey, 20 years in the military, I've heard it all.
In making a statement, when one uses profanity to make their point - it
loses its effectiveness, and becomes just so much background noise (even
though it may make you feel better).

Rather than offering solutions - you're complaining. Rethink your
statement, reword it and then post it again and see if you don't get more
"positive" reaction.

Bob S.
 
Bob said:
John,
Can't say that I agree with your opinions

I'm sorry to hear that, since they're pretty close to being facts when
MS actually backs them up. It's long been my *opinion* and I've long
stated it in this group that Microsoft wants to rent you software, not
let you have it installed on your hard drive for access on demand. Now
they've admitted as much:

"That and the .NET runtime's security and versioning features also
increase reliability and enable software to be **sold as a service
rather than a product.**"
(and I'm to old to work for MS...)

Wouldn't matter to me if you did. I hope the above clarification
elucidates things enough for you.
but your points probably would have been more effective and credible had you
left the profanity out. Hey, 20 years in the military, I've heard it all.
In making a statement, when one uses profanity to make their point - it
loses its effectiveness, and becomes just so much background noise (even
though it may make you feel better).

Yeah, whatever Bob. However, I no longer maintain an F.A.Q., others
swear in this group and now so will I. I'm sorry if you don't like it.
That's what killfiles are for.

I'm running out of energy regarding computers (and freeware), am about
to stop using them and move the energy into other current leisure time
activities (carpentry, motorcycling, hiking, shooting, etc.)
Microsoft, the U.S. government, trolls, idiots and other oxymorons
have succeeded largely in ruining the computing experience for me (I'm
not including you in that group, Bob). If I go (stop using computers),
a huge number of people IRL will most likely go too. Like a ripple
effect. And I will make sure that it happens. Guaranteed.
Rather than offering solutions - you're complaining. Rethink your
statement, reword it and then post it again and see if you don't get more
"positive" reaction.

At this point, all I can DO is complain about it. *Nobody* can come up
with any solutions because it's unknown how far MS will get away with
their plans. We also don't know what other activities and efforts they
have underway to further their agenda. Why tip your hand?
However, if my posting in this group about MS's software licensing
plans alerts somebody who IS in a position to do something about it,
then my goal has been achieved.

Steve Balmer once said (paraphrased) something to the effect that
freeware (or maybe it was open source or one of the licenses) was the
biggest current threat to Microsoft. His response has been to make
Microsoft the largest threat to freeware. This in spite of the fact
that Freeware has served their interests better than anything on this
planet. If they eliminate it, they will be destroying themselves.

It's the third law of thermodynamics yet again.
 
John,

I was simply trying to help you make your points more effectively is all -
whether I agree with them or not does not matter. You sound like you're at
burn-out (been there, done that) and maybe you do need to get away for
awhile and smell the roses. I have woodworking as my main hobby now and
computers are way down the line. They're just tools to me at this point
(even though I have 4 of them in my one man office...).

Bob S.
 
Steven said:
(snip)
You'll find a more comprehensive list at www.antitcpa.org (or .com, can't
remember which).
There's been a stink kicking up about this since it was first heard about,
both by Anti TCPA (aka TCG, TCI). Myself included, am completely against
this as it is bsically going to phase out (or rather, destroy) freeware and
shareware authors alike, unless such, can afford the pathetically expensive
licence fee required (software without a licence, WILL NOT run on any
computer with this technology, in some cases, it won't even install!!!).

http://news.tucows.com/linux/33730.html

Also, from http://www.zefhemel.com/134.php comes an assertion that all
software which "uses pieces of GPL'ed code have to become GPL'ed
themselves too". This would mean that Microsoft can't benefit from the
GPL because ripping off, eh..... using GPL code would make that
particular piece of M$ software GPL as well. They love looking at
everybody else's code, but desperately keep others from looking at
THEIR code.

Was trying to find that quote of Steve Balmer saying something to the
effect that free software was the largest threat to MS, but I couldn't
find it. Maybe you or somebody else will have better luck.
 
http://news.tucows.com/linux/33730.html

Also, from http://www.zefhemel.com/134.php comes an assertion that all
software which "uses pieces of GPL'ed code have to become GPL'ed
themselves too". This would mean that Microsoft can't benefit from the
GPL because ripping off, eh..... using GPL code would make that
particular piece of M$ software GPL as well. They love looking at
everybody else's code, but desperately keep others from looking at
THEIR code.

Was trying to find that quote of Steve Balmer saying something to the
effect that free software was the largest threat to MS, but I couldn't
find it. Maybe you or somebody else will have better luck.
</snip>

Cheers John, I'll take a look

--

Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
 
John said:
It's time to start looking for alternatives.

There are already great FREE alternatives too MS -- Linux or FreeBSB based
OS systems.

IMHO, the greatest threat to freeware is not the MS .NET platform but
software patents.

Rob
 
On that special day, John Corliss, ([email protected]#) said...
In conjunction with the "Trusted Computing Initiative", Microsoft's
goal is to make sure that all computers are online all the time, that
there is no software installed on your computer, that you can't WRITE
software that your computer can use, and that the only software you
can use is RENTED (temporarily downloaded and installed on your
computer from the internet for a fee) ONLY FROM THEM.

That was exactly the pessimistic view uttered already last year (when
the first news about .NET were out), from one Heise reporter, that it
would end up in the application being placed on the servers of
Microsoft, and you will rent their use for word processing and so on,
like paying for phone calls, ie MS is the owner of the Word Suite/Office
you use, and you can only rent it.

And whenever you want to access your documents, it will cost (even for
viewing?). Thanks, no thanks. If that happens, I'll go the OpenOffice
way (in fact, I already do).


Gabriele Neukam

(e-mail address removed)
 
Trying to get a word in edge-wise "John Corliss" wrote in
Warning: this post contains strong language because I feel very strongly
about what it discusses.
________________________________________
Recently I posted this link:

You are in the wrong newsgroup.
I know it was just a mix-up on your part.
The one I'm sure you are seeking is alt.comp.freeware.discussion.
Thank you.
 
dszady said:
You are in the wrong newsgroup.
I know it was just a mix-up on your part.
The one I'm sure you are seeking is alt.comp.freeware.discussion.
Thank you.

I know, dszady. It's just that this group has a larger readership and
I want everybody to know about the issue.
 
John Corliss said:
*** Pointed out what M$ is doing to try to screw us over big time. ***

Yeah, MicroShaft is at it again. Personally, I think billy-boy's brain is
fried by too many microchip chemical vapors.
 
You are in the wrong newsgroup.
I know it was just a mix-up on your part.
The one I'm sure you are seeking is alt.comp.freeware.discussion.
Thank you.
I don't think that's fair comment. OT was used, and the issue is new to
me and appears to be of some importance.

mike r
 
I know, dszady. It's just that this group has a larger readership and
I want everybody to know about the issue.

Given the potential impact of .Net BS on freeware, I believe it's
entirely appropriate here. Particularly since it is clearly marked
o.t.
 
Trying to get a word in edge-wise "Vic Dura" wrote in
Given the potential impact of .Net BS on freeware, I believe it's
entirely appropriate here. Particularly since it is clearly marked
o.t.
Considering the polarized views on different subjects Mr. Dura and Mr.
Corliss have had in the past, perhaps this is another breakthrough.
If you guys say so then it shall be. I just wish the other group would
have more traffic.
The idea is not new with Mr. Bill. He has had this on mind for several
years. And it does suck. I won't be able to afford to do it, period. If
it ain't Free, I ain't paying for it. :)
 
dszady said:
The idea is not new with Mr. Bill. He has had this on mind for
several years. And it does suck. I won't be able to afford to do
it, period. If it ain't Free, I ain't paying for it. :)

You, me, and many others I suspect. It's not just the 'can't afford',
I don't see why I can't own/use something whenever I want, rather than
have to pay (probably increasing) rental to the likes of M$ for using
their sw. The 'Big Brother' worries hardly bear thinking about. I
think it will scare many, many people off home computers, and/or
encourage them *not* to buy new computers, and the rented sw to go
with them. As an earlier poster said, this could ruin the present
computer industry.

KeithS
 
There are already great FREE alternatives too MS -- Linux or
FreeBSB based OS systems.

Agreed Rob, but many of us, probably myself included, simply don't
have the 'nous' to install and operate some of these solutions. If the
average person buys a pc, they want it with operating system and
browser pre-installed and running. They simply don't want to have to
spend ages uninstalling/installing/learning new systems. Many of us
here like to tweak to our own satisfaction, to the great majority a
'puter is just a tool to enable them to do something else.
Despite his (and it's) many 'faults' big Bill did manage to come up
with a friendly, easy to manage OS/browser/mail package that was
fairly intuitive to most people, as evidenced by its success. A lot of
freeware does not satisfy these apirations.

KeithS
 
KeithS said:
Agreed Rob, but many of us, probably myself included, simply don't
have the 'nous' to install and operate some of these solutions. If the
average person buys a pc, they want it with operating system and
browser pre-installed and running. They simply don't want to have to
spend ages uninstalling/installing/learning new systems. Many of us
here like to tweak to our own satisfaction, to the great majority a
'puter is just a tool to enable them to do something else.
Despite his (and it's) many 'faults' big Bill did manage to come up
with a friendly, easy to manage OS/browser/mail package that was
fairly intuitive to most people, as evidenced by its success. A lot of
freeware does not satisfy these apirations.

KeithS

Well. Linux has gone a long way. IMHO it is just as easy to install and get
up and running with a GUI, web browser etc as Windows. Check out the latest
FREE distributions of Mandrake and Suse.

In fact if you are using some of the great free programs mentioned in this
newsgroup, many of them have Linux versions (such as Mozilla and
OpenOffice). If you can use Mozilla or OpenOffice on Windows, you can use
it on Linux just as easily.

Give Mandrake or Suse a try. Both will resize you WIndows partition and
install Linux in a separate partition on your hard disk. After
installation, you will be given a choice of using Windows or Linux at boot
to time.

But I do agree with you that Linux is more complicated. But if you don't
want to tweak your system, then it is a moot point..

Oh yes, by the way, more an more PC manufacturers are offering PC's with
Linux preinstalled. A good deal with consumers since it avoids the
Microsoft tax. IMHO, consumers get a more robust and secure PC at a lower
cost.

And more and more programs designed for Windows are able to run under Linux
using the WINE emulation program.

Rob
 
Rob said:
Well. Linux has gone a long way. IMHO it is just as easy to install and get
up and running with a GUI, web browser etc as Windows. Check out the latest
FREE distributions of Mandrake
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/

and Suse.
http://www.suse.com/us/index.html

In fact if you are using some of the great free programs mentioned in this
newsgroup, many of them have Linux versions (such as Mozilla and
OpenOffice). If you can use Mozilla or OpenOffice on Windows, you can use
it on Linux just as easily.
Give Mandrake or Suse a try. Both will resize you WIndows partition and
install Linux in a separate partition on your hard disk. After
installation, you will be given a choice of using Windows or Linux at boot
to time.

This is new to me. Very interesting!!! Also, very user friendly sounding.
But I do agree with you that Linux is more complicated. But if you don't
want to tweak your system, then it is a moot point..

http://www.ubergeek.tv/switchlinux/ (have Shockwave enabled.)
Oh yes, by the way, more an more PC manufacturers are offering PC's with
Linux preinstalled. A good deal with consumers since it avoids the
Microsoft tax. IMHO, consumers get a more robust and secure PC at a lower
cost.

And more and more programs designed for Windows are able to run under Linux
using the WINE emulation program.

http://www.winehq.org/

And they even have a program that lets you install MS Office 2000 on a
Linux box.
 
Rob said:
Well. Linux has gone a long way. IMHO it is just as easy to
install and get up and running with a GUI, web browser etc as
Windows. Check out the latest FREE distributions of Mandrake and
Suse.


All right, you smooth talking ****** :) , you maybe have convinced
me to give it a try. But, and it's a big but, there are many more
people out there who simply don't want to go this route, and just want
to use their pc's as a tool.

KeithS
 
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