Looking for Recommendations for my next PC

  • Thread starter Thread starter Daave
  • Start date Start date
Daave said:
I was doing a little research on this. The E8500 (now referred to
Wolfdale, I believe) looks like a contender, but apparently the first
batch sold out real fast! I know no one has a crystal ball, but typically
how much longer might it take until it is available again? And if I want
to build a barebones system which already has this processor on a
compatible motherboard, when will I start seeing them available for sale?

Yes they did sell out quickly. I bought an E8400 when they were first
released.
IMHO they are much better value than the E8500. Around here new stock is
expected at the end of this week.
Looking at some test results for software optimized for the new instructions
there is a large improvement in encoding speeds.
If we're talking several months, I might just go ahead with the E6850. Or
does the difference in performance justify the wait?

I don't think you will have to wait long, in fact I believe the E6850 will
be phased out pretty soon.
 
That's interesting. I thought it was a concern because it also
determines how fast the RAM can be. For instance, if I were to go with
Kingston memory, I see choices all over the place -- from 2 sticks of
533 MHz RAM (2 GB total) for $43.00 up to 2 sticks of 1066 MHz RAM (2 GB
total) for $124. I also encountered "high performance" Kingston RAM (a 2
GB kit again) costing as much as $434.75, so I am quite confused!

Bottom line: What exactly is "high performance" and is it worth the
considerably extra premium? And even if I were to avoid high-performance
RAM, how much of a performance difference is there between 533 MHz and
1066 MHz?

OK, as far as RAM goes, you need to be aware that there are several
qualities that determine performance, and just one of them is clock speed.
In other words, one stick of 533 RAM can perform better than another. Main
thing to look for is latency. In this case, lower is better. So, CL3 would
be 'slower' than CL2 or CL2.5. But you can literally drive yourself nuts
worrying about such details, and there's really no need for it, unless you
are a competitive gamer. In which case, you'd probably go for the
ultra-expensive high performance RAM. In return for the bucks you spend on
it, you might gain a few FPS while playing your favorite game. OTHER THAN
THAT, YOU'D NOTICE NO DIFFERENCE. So unless you know you need the ultra
high performance (like a gamer), then you really don't need to worry about
RAM that much.

This is what I'd advise you to do, as far as RAM goes.
1) Choose your motherboard
2) Find out the fastest RAM the mainboard will support, and what type.
3) (referring back to 2) Buy two 1GB sticks of name-brand RAM such as
Kingston or OCZ or Crucial, for a total of 2GB of really high quality RAM
that is supported by your mainboard
Actually, that build was a preliminary one, a result of configuring a
system at Tiger Direct, which by now, seems like a limited choice! It
seems the consensus here so far is to choose an X38 chipset. What's your
take?

My take is, it makes no difference at all. The P35 and X38 chipsets look to
be very similar, in terms of features. The X38 looks like it might support
some faster processors. HOWEVER, it is somewhat unlikely that you'll ever
replace the CPU without replacing the motherboard also. And in any case,
the price is about the same. So I don't think you can go wrong by choosing
either. If the X38 was significantly more expensive, I'd advise you to
stick with P35. But if the price difference is negligible? I don't think
it matters.
Finally, you had also stated:


Again, interesting as the consensus is different. Can you recommend a
site where I can compare? Or is this just based on personal experience?

It's based on 20 years of work in the IT field. Asus is IMHO the most
over-rated brand there is, and they do NOT deserve the reputation that they
have. There are much better brands in terms of build quality and
reliability. Some of them are less expensive than Asus, also. But again, I
have some strange tastes in hardware, ****according to the consensus****.
The most reliable boards I've worked with have been Biostar, which many
consider to be crap. (???) :) But based on my experience, if I'm building
a system for myself or someone I care about, I'm leaning toward AOpen or
Biostar or Intel for the mainboard brand. If I can't find something I like
among those three (unlikely), there are other brands I'll consider, like DFI
and Chaintech and a few others. I also tend to prefer AMD processors
usually, but not exclusively. This system I'm using now is AMD, but the
last three builds I did were all Intel processors.

Oh, I could recommend some sites to compare at. But I think THIS NG is
probably the best resource for you. Even if most people here would disagree
with some of my choices of hardware, you will get good advice from them
(usually). So you've come to the right place already. -Dave
 
Dave said:
My take is, it makes no difference at all. The P35 and X38 chipsets
look to be very similar, in terms of features. The X38 looks like it
might support some faster processors. HOWEVER, it is somewhat
unlikely that you'll ever replace the CPU without replacing the
motherboard also. And in any case, the price is about the same. So
I don't think you can go wrong by choosing either. If the X38 was
significantly more expensive, I'd advise you to stick with P35. But
if the price difference is negligible? I don't think it matters.

Currently I'm comparing the Intel BOXDX38BT with the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4
(I know, you're not a fan!). At mwave, there is a $12.50 difference
(factoring in a coupon). I agree that the Intel (with the X38) has just
a few more advantages than the Gigabyte (P35), but saving $12.50 ain't
that much of a big deal, so I'm leaning toward the former.

One question, though: John had said that P35 boards don't support two
PCI Express X16 cards (at least I believe that's what he said), but the
Gigabyte seems to do so. Can you please explain the differences to me:

Intel BOXDX38BT
Dual full-speed PCIe 2.0 slots + x4/ x16 PCIe slot and 2 PCI expansion
slots: Increased graphics bandwidth provides up to 8 GB per direction
and a combined 16 GB maximum, plus the flexibility to support another
PCIe device and legacy PCI devices

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4
Expansion Slots
2 PCI Express X16 slot(x16, x4)
3 PCI Express X1 slots
2 PCI slots
 
Daave said:
Currently I'm comparing the Intel BOXDX38BT with the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4
(I know, you're not a fan!). At mwave, there is a $12.50 difference
(factoring in a coupon). I agree that the Intel (with the X38) has just
a few more advantages than the Gigabyte (P35), but saving $12.50 ain't
that much of a big deal, so I'm leaning toward the former.

Note that Gigabyte now has a GA-X38-DS4 as well ($30 less than the Intel board
at newegg). If you want to compare apples with apples, that is as close as
you're gonna get!

A couple quick differences:

The DS4 uses DDR2 RAM instead of DDR3 -- WAY cheaper (less than half the
price), with no real performance deficit. It also supports 1600 MHz FSB.

The Intel board replaces 2 PCIe x1 slots with a third PCIe x16 slot that
runs at x4. It also has built-in eSATA sockets, instead of the add-in backplane
the DS4 uses. Audio chipset may actually work (Realtek on DS4 and other boards
has been problematic).

One question, though: John had said that P35 boards don't support two
PCI Express X16 cards (at least I believe that's what he said), but the
Gigabyte seems to do so. Can you please explain the differences to me:

The P35 chipset does not support 2 full-speed PCIe x16 slots; the second slot on
those boards runs at x4. Note that the X38-DS4 has 2 full-speed x16 and 2 x1
slots, where the Intel board has 2 full-speed x16 and 1 x4-speed x16 slot.
 
More than 2GB will only help if you have a specific application that
can use the extra RAM. Read your video editing software documentation
or any sound-recording/mixing apps. to find out. But in general, it's
somewhat unlikely that you will be able to use more than 2GB of RAM,
no matter how hard you try to do so. If you do dip into RAM above
2GB, it's likely to be used for video editing. Don't worry about
dual-channel (optional, neither good nor bad), avoid ECC (wasted
money), and DDR2/DDR3 makes no difference.

I suppose it would be more economical to go with DDR2, however, it seems
that newer motherboards with the X38 chipset only accept DDR3. Is that
the case?

Correction: I was using this page (INTEL BOXDX38BT) to reach that
conclusion:

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24413&RSKU=BA24413

All the memory options seemed to be for DDR3. However, that's not the
case for this page (GIGABYTE GA-X38-DQ6):

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24276

Is there any reason the first board won't accept DDR2?
 
Daave said:
Correction: I was using this page (INTEL BOXDX38BT) to reach that conclusion:

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24413&RSKU=BA24413

All the memory options seemed to be for DDR3. However, that's not the case
for this page (GIGABYTE GA-X38-DQ6):

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24276

Is there any reason the first board won't accept DDR2?

It's a matter of the BIOS. Intel is setting it up for DDR3 only; Gigabyte is
setting it up for DDR2. Some Gigabyte boards will use either one.

The DS4 is significantly cheaper than the DQ6, and the feature set is very
similar (dual LAN, 2 more SATA ports on the DQ6)...
 
John said:
Depends on price vs long-term upgradability. The P35 is perfectly
adequate if you don't need 2 full-speed PCIe 16x ports.

I know that one of these slots would be for a video card. What usually
goes in the other full-speed slot -- a tuner card? I agree that the P35
will probably be fine; I just want to make sure.

Also, mwave has GA-EP35-DS3P on sale for $159.50 and the GA-P35-DS4 on
sale for $176.50. Is the latter significantly better than the former?
 
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