Location of Discussion Group on Defender website

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nishanth @ MSFT
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<smile> Only `half kidding` huh?

Stu

Dave M said:
My memory is of sending a user to Microsoft with that two question support
incident promise in hand, and for him to later return with support's
puzzled blank expression... Who knows, maybe I didn't specify to ask for
someone named Faulhaber - just kidding - sortof ;o(
Click to expand...
 
On the otherhand. Perhaps the various issues arising from WD integration with
other software vendors would be better addressed by us in the Application
Compatibility NG?

Stu
 
Replying to two bits in sequence:


Bill Sanderson said:
I can't resist suggesting that boring is exactly what Windows Defender
should be for the vast majority of its users, most of the time
Click to expand...

Since that's the philosophy underlying Defender, that would be the ideal,
Bill. But I don't think we've arrived at the ideal yet - and I'm quite sure
that there are millions of people who still haven't even been able to find
their way to these newsgroups in order to ask their questions.
But I do know what you mean. It is nice to have a community around the
issue of spyware as a whole and not just Windows Defender as a product.
Click to expand...

It's not just nice from my point of view. It's essential. What small
understanding I have of the whole malware area is almost entirely due to the
wide-ranging expertise and willingness to help of the people in these
newsgroups. (That's you and all the others.) I've tried out several of the
antispyware forums around, but so often the discussions are uninformed,
unreliable, and sometimes just hearsay. Here, the density of high quality,
reliable comment is extraordinarily high - without these newsgroups - I'd
still be floundering.

Besides, no antispyware software is used in isolation. Looked at from the
position of the average bod who uses it (i.e. not from the Microsoft end)
Defender is just one part of a battery of defences that needs to be
discussed in a broad context.
 
Alan D said:
It's not just nice from my point of view. It's essential. What small
understanding I have of the whole malware area is almost entirely due to
the wide-ranging expertise and willingness to help of the people in these
newsgroups. (That's you and all the others.) I've tried out several of the
antispyware forums around, but so often the discussions are uninformed,
unreliable, and sometimes just hearsay. Here, the density of high quality,
reliable comment is extraordinarily high - without these newsgroups - I'd
still be floundering.

Besides, no antispyware software is used in isolation. Looked at from the
position of the average bod who uses it (i.e. not from the Microsoft end)
Defender is just one part of a battery of defences that needs to be
discussed in a broad context.
Click to expand...

Thanks - Eloquently said!
 
Different folks need different kinds of support. For example, I'm unclear
about whether there are Defender support groups in any language other than
English. Some folks don't do well with print/text, and need to speak to and
hear from another person. I'm quite certain that the offer of (and costs
associated with) two support incidents is very real, but I'm not sure how to
use them.

It's certainly true, though, that I haven't been particularly desperate to
find the answer to this--I really haven't looked in a good long time. Maybe
if the site is redesigned, I'll then get around to looking for all the
"stuff" I think of and telling them what they did wrong (imho!)

Actually - I wonder if the Security Portal would be a good jumping off point
for further links into Defender support, and Forefront support?
 
Further to my last. Today I took the unprecidented step of proceeding to the
WD download site. Being one of those mortals who has been fortunate enough to
progress thru the various upgrades (engine and otherwise) without incident,
it has been a looooong time. I was shocked to see the the `two question
support` advertised within the download button. Thank god ! I have recently
had some laser reatment done to correct my failing sight ! Otherwise, I could
have missed it.

Only half kidding.

Stu
 
for our update alerts. IMHO, the best is CoU:
http://www.dozleng.com/updates/index.php?act=calendar&cal_id=1&m=12&y=2007#
Click to expand...

Not for me, though, Bob. I find Cof U quite bewildering, myself - just too
much information. But Randy's regular once a week reminder about AdAware and
Spybot, and the occasional Spywareblaster reminder from people like JJ or
Robin - I find these really helpful. They stand out immediately, and trigger
immediate action from me.
 
Alan D said:
there are even better alternatives to these newsgroups http://www.dozleng.com/updates/index.php?act=calendar&cal_id=1&m=12&y=2007#

Not for me, though, Bob. I find Cof U quite bewildering, myself - just too
much information. But Randy's regular once a week reminder about AdAware and
Spybot, and the occasional Spywareblaster reminder from people like JJ or
Robin - I find these really helpful. They stand out immediately, and trigger
immediate action from me.
Click to expand...

It's a very exhaustive list, but then again I find items of interest there
that otherwise I would have missed.

Perhaps one of our resident MVP's could carry a suggestion back to them for
a selective CofU that would only list applications installed on your system.
;-)

Bob Vanderveen
 
"Anonymous Bob" wrote
Perhaps one of our resident MVP's could carry a suggestion back to them
for
a selective CofU that would only list applications installed on your
system.
Click to expand...

Brilliant idea Bob! Cuts right through to the core of the problem.

Seriously though, it is alarming how much time can be spent checking through
antimalware and security update information. There have been times in the
past when I've felt like the guy who never drives his car because he's
always servicing it.
 
I understand where you are coming from Alan. BUT. And there`s always a BUT;)
COU is not all that complicated really. We should all be increasingly aware
of what we have installed on our comps as we are made aware of the potential
dangers lurking on the Internet. I hope these NGs are doing that - education
and awareness is the key. Most of us have been here for a few years now and
if we haven`t learn`t that, we haven`t learnt anything much. With a little
`self discipline` it only takes a few moments to browse the updates on a
daily, if not weekly basis, and link to the relevant sites. We can`t all be
`spoon fed`. We must do something to help ourselves. On a more pious note.
Who was it that once said?: "The Lord helps those who help themselves". That
doesn`t mean `nicking a copy of MS Office 2007` from PC World. <smile>

Stu
 
i agree with Aland
How much time do we all have running around to other websites with updates
and finding answers to programs that cause problems with WD or other
programs?
I know my time is limited enough and I come mostly here or to the
Superantispyware forum but i have enough time just to breathe no less time
to run around to other sites to get info. That would take half my day and I
would wind up getting nothing done.
robin
 
Alan D said:
"Anonymous Bob" wrote


Brilliant idea Bob! Cuts right through to the core of the problem.
Click to expand...

If they should follow up on that suggestion, I give you full credit.

I don't want to take the blame. :-o

Bob Vanderveen
 
With a little
`self discipline` it only takes a few moments to browse the updates on a
daily, if not weekly basis, and link to the relevant sites. We can`t all
be
`spoon fed`. We must do something to help ourselves.
Click to expand...

Stu, with respect, this makes me groan with dismay. If you had any idea of
the amount of time I've spent during the last couple of years gradually
building up my knowledge and understanding of these matters, virtually from
zero (because it doesn't come naturally to me), and if you saw my regular
schedule of checks that I carry out myself and frequently recommend to
friends (most of whom know less than I do), you could not possibly, in all
fairness, direct such a comment at me. That I've had enormous help from
people like yourself is certainly true. That I expect to be spoonfed is
simply ridiculous.

All I am saying is that the regular reminders of updates for these commonly
used security programs, provided by folks like Randy, JJ, Robin etc is a
helpful, time-saving, and indeed friendly activity for some of us (though
perhaps not for you). That's not spoonfeeding. It's just basic human contact
and mutual help, and there's certainly a need for more of that in this crazy
world. Any slight disruption it may cause to the 'update section' is simply
of no significance by comparison to the goodwill and feeling of mutual
security it spreads. I can't believe this is really a serious source of
contention, is it?
 
Hi Alan

My comments were not directly aimed at you so much as intended as a generic
observation. I do apologise if you feel they were. We are all in the `same
boat` so to speak ,when it comes to educating ourselves. I`m not an IT
professional but do love these NGs and very much enjoy gaining much needed
knowledge from some of the posters on here not to mention other sources. It
has become something of a regular event for me and I spend much of my spare
time trying to educate myself - just like you. There is so much that I now
understand that I did not before BUT, a lot that I do not or ever will. It
doesn`t come easy Alan, but I try get along with my system and understand it
better than before. I have even bought some `heavy books` like `Windows
Internals` by Mark Russinovich (remember him?). What a giant leap for me
that was - way above my head most of the time but with several rereads it
does give the punter a clue as to what is happening within Windows from `Boot
up` to `Shutdown`. At least I have got to know my way around `process
explorer`now. If nothing else, It looks very impressive on my bookshelf
<smile>

Take care and keep posting.

Stu
 
From the " If It Isn't Broke, Don't Fix It" Camp:

Personally, I'd prefer that you not change _the look and feel_ of
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/newsgroups/default.mspx

But what does need fixing is finding the link to these forums from
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx

It (the link) needs to be duplicated beyond the single instance at the
"main" 'Support and training' page. (because on multiple visits to the
website, I never found a link to the forums, and would probably never have
found it if you didn't give us the path. (I got here from a web search.))

In my opinion, the problem is that the structure of
---
Support and training
- Get started
- Beyond basics
---
implies that I'll be able to get to everything offered on the main page by
clicking on the sub-links. In other words, if you're going to use that
structure (or similar), you would need:

---
Support and training
- Get started
- Beyond basics
- Support newsgroups
- Engineer blog
- Report potential spyware to Microsoft
- Free limited phone support
 
do something to get rid of the trolls
Something needs to be put on the website so people understand they cannot be
disrespectful to others
robin
 
Thanks guys for your input! I'll look into the details of your suggestions
and take them into consideration.

Robin - As for what the website will be called (URL-wise), I'm still working
on that..

Nishanth
 
Will do, Alan. Thanks for the input!

Alan D said:
Whatever you change, please, please, test it out using a group of
non-computer-savvy people first.

Remember above all that unknowledgeable people in a panic about spyware are
going to be trying to find information to help them. Make the route for them
to follow absolutely clear and as simple as can be.

It's absolutely no use at all for a group of Microsoft experts to make these
kind of decisions without consulting some of the vast number of untrained
and inexperienced people who need help. (The inadequate messaging within
Defender itself is ample demonstration of that failure in the past.)
Click to expand...
 
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