T
Ted K
Has anyone evaluated Sygate (freeware version) v. Kerio?
N
null
D
donutbandit
Since I'm perfectly happy with Kerio, I haven't - I can't think of a thing
Sygate might do for me that Kerio doesn't. Some have mention backwards
tracing of packet attacks, port scans, etc. I ceased to worry about that
long ago. Since I'm on dialup (no static IP) I get tons of static and
background noise. If I worried about it, I'd be busy 24/7.
J
JunkMonkey
I started out with Sygate, discovered an incompatibility with Sygate and
Musicmatch Jukebox and switched to Kerio. Then when the newest version of
Sygate was released, I went back to it once I was certain the MMJB
incompatibility was resolved. (What can I say! I know it's a resource hog,
but MMJB is EASY to use! Just couldn't get used to WinAmp!)
There was no strong technical reason, to go back to Sygate from Kerio except
I felt more comfortable with the Sygate User Interface. Silly reason,
really, for a switch. But the text in the Kerio information pop-up windows
wasn't as well written as the Sygate text. The Sygate text was clearer,
more informative, and less "geeky". Note to developers, sometimes it's the
details that will make the deal for you.
I think either one is probably as good a software based firewall that you
will find anywhere. In fact, both pretty much work the same way. Download
them both and decide for yourself. It won't cost you anything but a little
download time.
Musicmatch Jukebox and switched to Kerio. Then when the newest version of
Sygate was released, I went back to it once I was certain the MMJB
incompatibility was resolved. (What can I say! I know it's a resource hog,
but MMJB is EASY to use! Just couldn't get used to WinAmp!)
There was no strong technical reason, to go back to Sygate from Kerio except
I felt more comfortable with the Sygate User Interface. Silly reason,
really, for a switch. But the text in the Kerio information pop-up windows
wasn't as well written as the Sygate text. The Sygate text was clearer,
more informative, and less "geeky". Note to developers, sometimes it's the
details that will make the deal for you.
I think either one is probably as good a software based firewall that you
will find anywhere. In fact, both pretty much work the same way. Download
them both and decide for yourself. It won't cost you anything but a little
download time.
C
christopher w.
i used to love kerio, but version 4 was so bloated with extra 'features'
that i switched back to sygate. both are very nice, i but i prefer less
bloat.
R
Richard Steinfeld
| Has anyone evaluated Sygate (freeware version) v. Kerio?
I've used two different versions of Sygate (one another company's
proprietary subset) for over a year. I also used Kerio for a few
months. You are welcome to read my comments earlier both in this
usenet group and in the spyware group.
My feeling is that both Sygate and Kerio are fine products, very
well executed. I'd say that the difference is one of "flavor"
more than anything. I differ with a poster who said that "it" was
a resource hog (it wasn't clear from his post whether he meant
Sygate or another program). It does not make its presence known
on my system in more than one way (see below).
To me, building the rule set is more transparent with Sygate.
Sygate has done an especially good job at creating an interface
that's an outstanding example of user-centered design. This is an
important aspect that's been glaringly lacking in security
software. The program handles really well; it offers the
information you need to know, stays out of your way until you
want to know something, displays good logs, and delivers a facile
sequence of backtracing and whois displays. Customization is very
good, too. I've almost never had to look at any documentation.
Kerio is just as capable. It feels like its code executes
slightly quicker, and this may be due to its simpler interface
design. I would have liked better whois lookup facility and URL
resolution (in fact, I can't remember if it has whois or not;
I've got Sygate running right now). I think that the user has to
get more directly involved with Kerio to set up the rules.
"Sponge" and one or more others have been kind enough to post
their own plug-in rule sets for the rest of us, so that a person
who is not technically experiencd can plug in a ruleset and be
instantly in a good place to surf from. When I used Kerio
recently, I had no difficulty tweaking it and cobbling up my own
rule set. Although my rules were undoubtedly simplet than
Sponge's offering, I was in a good space with this program.
I haven't tried Agnitum Outpost yet, so I'm interested in knowing
how it compares with the other two.
As an aside, it might be good if we think about how we will repay
the folks who provide their free wares for us to use. They have
given us a considerable amount of their time and energy; also
their money, along with their software. Good software has
absorbed lots of development time: there's coding, interface
design, testing, debugging. If it has been done well, there's
been a lot of work that's gone into it. We can't just take. Any
comments?
At one point I was considering buying Sygate, but I was turned
off by their phone support charge of $75/incident. Not being a
huge corporation, I feel entitled to free telephone support when
I pay money for software, especially security programs. And I
expect that support voice to speak English clearly and to know
the product.
I hope that this explanation has helped.
Richard
I've used two different versions of Sygate (one another company's
proprietary subset) for over a year. I also used Kerio for a few
months. You are welcome to read my comments earlier both in this
usenet group and in the spyware group.
My feeling is that both Sygate and Kerio are fine products, very
well executed. I'd say that the difference is one of "flavor"
more than anything. I differ with a poster who said that "it" was
a resource hog (it wasn't clear from his post whether he meant
Sygate or another program). It does not make its presence known
on my system in more than one way (see below).
To me, building the rule set is more transparent with Sygate.
Sygate has done an especially good job at creating an interface
that's an outstanding example of user-centered design. This is an
important aspect that's been glaringly lacking in security
software. The program handles really well; it offers the
information you need to know, stays out of your way until you
want to know something, displays good logs, and delivers a facile
sequence of backtracing and whois displays. Customization is very
good, too. I've almost never had to look at any documentation.
Kerio is just as capable. It feels like its code executes
slightly quicker, and this may be due to its simpler interface
design. I would have liked better whois lookup facility and URL
resolution (in fact, I can't remember if it has whois or not;
I've got Sygate running right now). I think that the user has to
get more directly involved with Kerio to set up the rules.
"Sponge" and one or more others have been kind enough to post
their own plug-in rule sets for the rest of us, so that a person
who is not technically experiencd can plug in a ruleset and be
instantly in a good place to surf from. When I used Kerio
recently, I had no difficulty tweaking it and cobbling up my own
rule set. Although my rules were undoubtedly simplet than
Sponge's offering, I was in a good space with this program.
I haven't tried Agnitum Outpost yet, so I'm interested in knowing
how it compares with the other two.
As an aside, it might be good if we think about how we will repay
the folks who provide their free wares for us to use. They have
given us a considerable amount of their time and energy; also
their money, along with their software. Good software has
absorbed lots of development time: there's coding, interface
design, testing, debugging. If it has been done well, there's
been a lot of work that's gone into it. We can't just take. Any
comments?
At one point I was considering buying Sygate, but I was turned
off by their phone support charge of $75/incident. Not being a
huge corporation, I feel entitled to free telephone support when
I pay money for software, especially security programs. And I
expect that support voice to speak English clearly and to know
the product.
I hope that this explanation has helped.
Richard
R
Richard Steinfeld
In my last post, I said of Sygate,
"It does not make its presence known
| on my system in more than one way (see below)."
Sorry. I forgot to describe that "one way." So, here it is:
Immediately after I installed Sygate this last time, I have
noticed a steady use of my hard disk at an almost rhythmic rate.
The HD usage is so brief that the "HD in use" LED isn't visible.
But I hear the head motor for an instant.
I see no indication that anything is engaged in the system to
cause this. On Sygate's web site, there was a FAQ answer that
mentioned something about unusual system activity that can be
caused by a "dirty" installation of the program: in other words,
an installation on a computer that's already got programs and
TSRs in memory at the time of installation. Have any of you using
Sygate noticed this (v5.5)?
I will soon remove and reinstall the program, paying attention
this time to removing every process from the machine. I can't say
anything significant until I do that. If anyone wants to assist
in this, I'd welcome the input.
Richard
"It does not make its presence known
| on my system in more than one way (see below)."
Sorry. I forgot to describe that "one way." So, here it is:
Immediately after I installed Sygate this last time, I have
noticed a steady use of my hard disk at an almost rhythmic rate.
The HD usage is so brief that the "HD in use" LED isn't visible.
But I hear the head motor for an instant.
I see no indication that anything is engaged in the system to
cause this. On Sygate's web site, there was a FAQ answer that
mentioned something about unusual system activity that can be
caused by a "dirty" installation of the program: in other words,
an installation on a computer that's already got programs and
TSRs in memory at the time of installation. Have any of you using
Sygate noticed this (v5.5)?
I will soon remove and reinstall the program, paying attention
this time to removing every process from the machine. I can't say
anything significant until I do that. If anyone wants to assist
in this, I'd welcome the input.
Richard
D
donutbandit
Then why not just go back to Kerio 2.1.5?
D
donutbandit
My experience is that you'll find more intelligent discussion here.
Everyone over there is so prejudiced in favor of their own personal
favorite that you won't get any real discussion.
First, the shills will chime in with their normal response. Then, someone
will acridly point out that this question is asked there X times per week,
and why don't you just Google and stop wasting our time.
Then, Duane will come in recommending Black Ice Defender (it doesn't matter
what the question is, that's Duane's answer.) Then, the troll who's
stalking Duane will post under a number of aliases, replete with personal
attacks and racial slurs.
As you can see, I've spent some time over there.
S
Steve H
I had a very curious problem with 5.5 in that it worked just fine for
ages, and then suddenly began to slow the OS down so dramatically that
it eventually ground to a halt.
It's done this on two entirely different machines ( thus scotching my
initial suspicion that it was a dodgy graphics driver at work ).
I'll say this much though, I was so impressed with Sygate ( over
Outpost and the currently running ZoneAlarm ) that I'm trying to suss
the problem on a ghosted copy of my working OS.
Regards,
S
Sietse Fliege
D
Derald
I don't know that I've "evaluated" either but within the pastTed K said:
30-days I have used the current version of Sygate, AWA Kerio v2.1.5, and
checked their effectiveness here: http://grc.com/x/ne.dll?rh1dkyd2, for
whatever that may be worth.
Decided on Kerio only because, over time, Sygate proved unstable on
my generic winbox under win98se, burping up the infamous "illegal
operation" error. Those failures are anecdotal, and not necessarily
directly related to the Sygate app.; I did no systematic testint and
just don't feel like dicking around with system config and
drivers---that's just no fun anymore. Of course, YMMV.
FWIW: Kerio loads far and away more quickly, delaying Windows'
startup much less than did the Sygate app, and uses significantly less
resources, including system RAM.
M
ms
donutbandit said:Since I'm perfectly happy with Kerio, I haven't - I can't think of a thing
Sygate might do for me that Kerio doesn't. Some have mention backwards
tracing of packet attacks, port scans, etc. I ceased to worry about that
long ago. Since I'm on dialup (no static IP) I get tons of static and
background noise. If I worried about it, I'd be busy 24/7.
I'm also on DUN, why do you use a firewall?
I've always seen comments that with DUN, a firewall isn't needed.
Mike Sa
J
JunkMonkey
ms said:
When you are connected, you are just as vulnerable as any permanent
connection. Sure, things happen slower on a dial-up. but they can still
happen, and none of us are 100% vigilant 100% of the time. The good news is
you only need it when you are on-line.
A
Aaron
The No 1 Security problem with Sygate (all versions) is
that Sygate cannot stop applications from highjacking OUT on proxomitron
or any other local proxy for that matter. It is a well known problem.
In terms of interface, I find Kerio more intutive and flexible.
Aaron (my email is not munged!)
E
El Gee
My .02 worth:
I was a Zone Alarm fan, but it was very buggy, and used way too many
resources. I switched to Sygate, on a reccommendation from a friend who
said the UI was nice, easy to use and configure. Very secure, as well.
I have been using Sygate for 2 years now. I enjoy it. The company I am
contracted out to uses a version of it for their laptops with VPN
access. Taht is how please they are with the product.
Again, just my .02
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee
Did you hear the one about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac?
He would stay up late every night and wonder if there was a dog.
Remove yourhat to reply ... but it
may take a while. Best to go to www (dot) mistergeek (dot) com and
reply from there.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
T
Ted K
Thanks to all for some very informative responses.
R
Richard Steinfeld
Sietse Fliege wrote:
| Richard Steinfeld wrote:
|| Immediately after I installed Sygate this last time, I have
|| noticed a steady use of my hard disk at an almost rhythmic
|| rate. The HD usage is so brief that the "HD in use" LED isn't
|| visible. But I hear the head motor for an instant.
|
| FileMon from www.sysinternals.com may be of help here.
Thanks. Would you please explain and point the way toward what
you think we may find of use. Tell us why.
Thanks again,
Richard
| Richard Steinfeld wrote:
|| Immediately after I installed Sygate this last time, I have
|| noticed a steady use of my hard disk at an almost rhythmic
|| rate. The HD usage is so brief that the "HD in use" LED isn't
|| visible. But I hear the head motor for an instant.
|
| FileMon from www.sysinternals.com may be of help here.
Thanks. Would you please explain and point the way toward what
you think we may find of use. Tell us why.
Thanks again,
Richard
R
Richard Steinfeld
| I had a very curious problem with 5.5 in that it worked just
| fine for ages, and then suddenly began to slow the OS down so
| dramatically that it eventually ground to a halt.
| It's done this on two entirely different machines ( thus
| scotching my initial suspicion that it was a dodgy graphics
| driver at work ).
|
| I'll say this much though, I was so impressed with Sygate (
| over Outpost and the currently running ZoneAlarm ) that I'm
| trying to suss the problem on a ghosted copy of my working OS.
|
Oh! You made me remember something. I'd been using the utility
set, "System Suite." This was (is) a competitor of Norton
Systemworks. SS was made up of a collection of individual
utilities from different sources, all brilliantly integrated by
OnTrack, a data retrieval company. The antivirus was from Trend
Micro, and the firewall, a slightly crippled version of Sygate.
That's where I got hooked on Sygate. And in my experience, System
Suite just blew Norton away! I had hopes for better support than
whatever Symantec would ever condescend to provide.
OnTrack got bought; the new owner unloaded all the non-recovery
products; System Suite was bought by another company who I will
avoid naming so I don't get into a lawsuit. That company soon got
into updating the antivirus when they felt like it. No matter how
much I sent them alarms, they felt just fine about closing down
two weeks for Xmas. The firewall began to get a little flaky on
my box after that. It became apparent that "Company X" had no
interest in supporting the prouduct that they'd bought, throwing
their efforts into the next version with new partners instead.
Replies from them ranged from robot replies to "What do you want
from us?," to an emial from a vice president: I said that I
wanted him to review his support logs, instead of doing that, the
man called me a liar.
I'm still using most of the System Suite functions that I paid
for, but it was crystal clear that I had to either buy or find
free substitutes for the firewall and antivirus. And to find
alternatives for everything else, at a slower pace.
You said that your Sygate has slugged down. Well, I was able to
cure that problem with my System Suite rendition. Like your
experience, my Sygate ran fine for some time before it slowed
down the system. The answer was in the Traffic log file. Sygate
looks at that file a lot, and writes to it every time it does
anything, which means every time you send something out or
anything comes in.
In my former rendition, there was no way to limit the size of
that file. When it got big, the computer got very slow. My
solution was to save the file, and then delete it. That restored
the performance. See if this works for you.
With the free Sygate, I have been able to set time limits for
these log files. Thus, I've set them fairly short. If I remember,
I save the file and delete it, although it no longer gets
oversized. I will re-install Sygate, paying attention to shutting
down every possible process for the installation, and see if the
hard drive "blips" stop.
Richard
| fine for ages, and then suddenly began to slow the OS down so
| dramatically that it eventually ground to a halt.
| It's done this on two entirely different machines ( thus
| scotching my initial suspicion that it was a dodgy graphics
| driver at work ).
|
| I'll say this much though, I was so impressed with Sygate (
| over Outpost and the currently running ZoneAlarm ) that I'm
| trying to suss the problem on a ghosted copy of my working OS.
|
Oh! You made me remember something. I'd been using the utility
set, "System Suite." This was (is) a competitor of Norton
Systemworks. SS was made up of a collection of individual
utilities from different sources, all brilliantly integrated by
OnTrack, a data retrieval company. The antivirus was from Trend
Micro, and the firewall, a slightly crippled version of Sygate.
That's where I got hooked on Sygate. And in my experience, System
Suite just blew Norton away! I had hopes for better support than
whatever Symantec would ever condescend to provide.
OnTrack got bought; the new owner unloaded all the non-recovery
products; System Suite was bought by another company who I will
avoid naming so I don't get into a lawsuit. That company soon got
into updating the antivirus when they felt like it. No matter how
much I sent them alarms, they felt just fine about closing down
two weeks for Xmas. The firewall began to get a little flaky on
my box after that. It became apparent that "Company X" had no
interest in supporting the prouduct that they'd bought, throwing
their efforts into the next version with new partners instead.
Replies from them ranged from robot replies to "What do you want
from us?," to an emial from a vice president: I said that I
wanted him to review his support logs, instead of doing that, the
man called me a liar.
I'm still using most of the System Suite functions that I paid
for, but it was crystal clear that I had to either buy or find
free substitutes for the firewall and antivirus. And to find
alternatives for everything else, at a slower pace.
You said that your Sygate has slugged down. Well, I was able to
cure that problem with my System Suite rendition. Like your
experience, my Sygate ran fine for some time before it slowed
down the system. The answer was in the Traffic log file. Sygate
looks at that file a lot, and writes to it every time it does
anything, which means every time you send something out or
anything comes in.
In my former rendition, there was no way to limit the size of
that file. When it got big, the computer got very slow. My
solution was to save the file, and then delete it. That restored
the performance. See if this works for you.
With the free Sygate, I have been able to set time limits for
these log files. Thus, I've set them fairly short. If I remember,
I save the file and delete it, although it no longer gets
oversized. I will re-install Sygate, paying attention to shutting
down every possible process for the installation, and see if the
hard drive "blips" stop.
Richard
R
Richard Steinfeld
Derald wrote:
|
|| Has anyone evaluated Sygate (freeware version) v. Kerio?
| I don't know that I've "evaluated" either but within the past
| 30-days I have used the current version of Sygate, AWA Kerio
| v2.1.5, and checked their effectiveness here:
| http://grc.com/x/ne.dll?rh1dkyd2, for whatever that may be
| worth.
Dunno. I got a "reload suppressed" window at that address (?!).
| Decided on Kerio only because, over time, Sygate proved
| unstable on
| my generic winbox under win98se, burping up the infamous
| "illegal operation" error. Those failures are anecdotal, and
| not necessarily directly related to the Sygate app.; I did no
| systematic testint and just don't feel like dicking around
| with system config and drivers---that's just no fun anymore.
I am running Sygate on a Micron box with Win Me. The machine is
maxed out with 540 meg. I have not experienced the failure you've
mentioned ever.
| Of course, YMMV.
| FWIW: Kerio loads far and away more quickly, delaying Windows'
| startup much less than did the Sygate app, and uses
| significantly less resources, including system RAM.
It is possible that Kerio has slowed down my system boot,
however.
Richard
|
|| Has anyone evaluated Sygate (freeware version) v. Kerio?
| I don't know that I've "evaluated" either but within the past
| 30-days I have used the current version of Sygate, AWA Kerio
| v2.1.5, and checked their effectiveness here:
| http://grc.com/x/ne.dll?rh1dkyd2, for whatever that may be
| worth.
Dunno. I got a "reload suppressed" window at that address (?!).
| Decided on Kerio only because, over time, Sygate proved
| unstable on
| my generic winbox under win98se, burping up the infamous
| "illegal operation" error. Those failures are anecdotal, and
| not necessarily directly related to the Sygate app.; I did no
| systematic testint and just don't feel like dicking around
| with system config and drivers---that's just no fun anymore.
I am running Sygate on a Micron box with Win Me. The machine is
maxed out with 540 meg. I have not experienced the failure you've
mentioned ever.
| Of course, YMMV.
| FWIW: Kerio loads far and away more quickly, delaying Windows'
| startup much less than did the Sygate app, and uses
| significantly less resources, including system RAM.
It is possible that Kerio has slowed down my system boot,
however.
Richard