Is VB Caca??

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Herfried K. Wagner said:
It's always hard to tell which languages influenced another one if a
certain feature is present in more than one existing language. Take
short-circuit logical operators ('AndAlso', 'OrElse') as an example. Does
this mean VB has been influenced by C ('&&', '||')? The answer is, like
in the case of properties, yes and no.
Click to expand...

Herfried as much as it pains me to say it you've become Cor as far as I'm
concerned. First you've branched this thread into a "how do you know what
C# is based upon" thread with Göran despite my posting a link to Wikipedia
that explains it. From there you can surely find interviews with the man
responsible for the design of the language but if they differ from yours I
think everybody will agree, you ought to know best.

Now to this reply (and I hope others take note) are you even remotely close
to suggesting that short-circuited evalution was introduced by VB.Net?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimal_evaluation

Other than all the languages that used this for the last 20 years I think
you have a solid point. It was introduced into Clipper around 1990 and
nobody on the development team suggested they invented it. Perhaps they
heard that VB.Net would add it in 2005? Or did you mean to write that
VB.Net was influenced by a dBASE compiler?
The term "similar" is not the same as "equal".
Click to expand...

Thanks Herfried... English being my native language I often need correction.
I didn't save your one about baby carriage wheels not being the same as car
wheels could you post that one more time?

Where's Cor to jump in and write something nobody understands when you need
him?

Let me ask as honestly as I can. What planet are you from and what do you
want with us humans?
 
Tom,

Tom Leylan said:
Herfried as much as it pains me to say it you've become Cor as far as I'm
concerned.
Click to expand...

It seems that you misinterpreted my post (maybe because I was unclear...).
I'll try to explain my thoughts in more detail below.
First you've branched this thread into a "how do you know what C# is based
upon" thread with Göran despite my posting a link to Wikipedia that
explains it. From there you can surely find interviews with the man
responsible for the design of the language but if they differ from yours I
think everybody will agree, you ought to know best.
Click to expand...

I know the man who worked in the C# language team, although not personally.
Nevertheless, that's exactly what I said: The languages that influenced
another one are hard to determine because it can be doubted that a language
designer knows just a single language. If language B adopted a feature from
language A without modification and later this features is added to language
X, does this mean that "A influenced X" or "B influenced X"?
Now to this reply (and I hope others take note) are you even remotely
close to suggesting that short-circuited evalution was introduced by
VB.Net?
Click to expand...

No, absolutely not. I just took "minimal evaluation", as its called too, as
an example of a certain feature which has been present in lots of languages
for a long time and has been lately introduced to VB in the term of new
operators. It's just a sample to demonstrate how hard it is to decide which
of the languages providing this functionality influenced VB. I believe this
question cannot be answered at all. I remember the days when BASIC/VB
didn't have 'AndAlso' and 'OrElse' and I often thought about different other
existing programming languages (C, C++, Java, ...) providing such a feature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimal_evaluation

Other than all the languages that used this for the last 20 years I think
you have a solid point. It was introduced into Clipper around 1990 and
nobody on the development team suggested they invented it. Perhaps they
heard that VB.Net would add it in 2005? Or did you mean to write that
VB.Net was influenced by a dBASE compiler?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I am sure you really misinterpreted my post. I was never doubting
that the feature has been present in many other programming languages
already years ago -- in the opposite, what you are saying above is exactly
my point.
Thanks Herfried... English being my native language I often need
correction.
Click to expand...

It was not intended as a correction.
 
Göran,

Göran Andersson said:
I don't really see much of a link between VB and C# either. They are quite
dissimmilar languages.
Click to expand...

As I said, I agree with that when comparing keywords.
VB.NET and C# share the .NET framework, but that doesn't have anything to
do with the actual languages. Most any language can be made to use the
framework, but that doesn't mean that it suddenly has influenced the
development of C#.
Click to expand...

Why not? The VB team, for example, always mentioned the .NET Framework as a
reason for changes introduced to VB in order to build VB.NET.
Here are some hard facts to back up it up. :)

"An evolution of Microsoft C and Microsoft C++, C# is simple, modern, type
safe, and object oriented."
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/aa336766.aspx
Click to expand...

So, then tell me what are the similarities between C and C# except curly
braces, the semicolon, and similar keywords and statements?

Did C have secure references? No. Did VB have them? Yes. Does C# have
them in a way almost equal to the support in, for example, VB6, Java, ...?
Yes.

Did C/C++ have a special "for each" statement? No. Did VB have such a
statement? Yes. Does C# have it? Yes.

Did C/C++ have a special syntax for marking up properties? No. Did VB have
such special syntax? Yes. Does C# have it? Yes.

....

Note that I am comparing language features, not keyword names. Also note
that there can be for sure found many samples in which C# actually has
similarities to C/C++ (I just didn't list them above).
"Anders Hejlsberg, a distinguished engineer at Microsoft, led the team
that designed the C# programming language. Hejlsberg first vaulted onto
the software world stage in the early eighties by creating a Pascal
compiler for MS-DOS and CP/M. A very young company called Borland soon
hired Hejlsberg and bought his compiler, which was thereafter marketed as
Turbo Pascal. At Borland, Hejlsberg continued to develop Turbo Pascal and
eventually led the team that designed Turbo Pascal's replacement: Delphi.
In 1996, after 13 years with Borland, Hejlsberg joined Microsoft, where he
initially worked as an architect of Visual J++ and the Windows Foundation
Classes (WFC)."
http://www.artima.com/intv/generics.html

"In the design of C#, we looked at a lot of languages. We looked at C++,
we looked at Java, at Modula 2, C, and we looked at Smalltalk."
http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/oreilly/windows/news/hejlsberg_0800.html
Click to expand...

Nothing new for me. However, I strongly doubt that Anders Hejlsberg has
never taken a look at programming languages other than Pascal, Delphi, Java,
Modula-2, C, and Smalltalk, especially with VB and C++ teams working in the
same company in the same location.
 
Herfried said:
Göran,



As I said, I agree with that when comparing keywords.
Click to expand...

No only keywords.

VB is line based, C# is not. C# is object oriented, VB is not. C# is a
strictly typed language, in VB you don't even have to declare the variables.
Why not? The VB team, for example, always mentioned the .NET Framework
as a reason for changes introduced to VB in order to build VB.NET.
Click to expand...

Are you serious? So if I now make an implementation of the Brainfuck
language for .NET, it will then automatically have influenced the
development of C#?
So, then tell me what are the similarities between C and C# except curly
braces, the semicolon, and similar keywords and statements?
Click to expand...

Not much with C but so much more with C++, things like enums and
operator overloading.
Did C have secure references? No. Did VB have them? Yes. Does C#
have them in a way almost equal to the support in, for example, VB6,
Java, ...? Yes.
Click to expand...

And of course it comes from VB6, and not from Java?
Did C/C++ have a special "for each" statement? No. Did VB have such a
statement? Yes. Does C# have it? Yes.
Click to expand...

So does PHP. Does that prove that C# is based on PHP?
Did C/C++ have a special syntax for marking up properties? No. Did VB
have such special syntax? Yes. Does C# have it? Yes.
Click to expand...

Why do we then "set" at property, and not "let" it?
Note that I am comparing language features, not keyword names. Also
note that there can be for sure found many samples in which C# actually
has similarities to C/C++ (I just didn't list them above).


Nothing new for me. However, I strongly doubt that Anders Hejlsberg has
never taken a look at programming languages other than Pascal, Delphi,
Java, Modula-2, C, and Smalltalk, especially with VB and C++ teams
working in the same company in the same location.
Click to expand...

Of course he knows about more languages. Probably a lot more languages.
That's not really relevant, though. These are the ones that he though
was worth mentioning in influencing the design of C#. And VB isn't
there. Actually in the entire interview VB is only mentioned when
comparing features, never as having any influence at all in the design
of C#.
 
Given that VB has overloaded the Nothing keyword to be equivalent to zero
when used as a value type and a reference to zero when used as a reference
type, using the syntax "function foo() as nothing" instead of "sub foo()"
would really add to the confusion. In addition, any function can legally
return "Nothing". In C#, you cannot return "void".

Mike Ober.
 
Actually, I just gave MS a zero on support on one of their survey calls.
I'm not now, nor ever have been an employee or stockholder of MS. If you
google for me, you'll see that not only have I posted working code in these
NGs, but I have also released an applications, including source, onto the
web. The same cannot be said for you.

In my first software engineering class, Gerald Sussman had 500+ students in
the lecture hall. He asked everyone who had programmed to raise their
hands. Then he had everyone who had programmed in languages other than
BASIC to lower their hands. The he said (paraphrasing) "If your hand is
still up, you'll need to unlearn everything you know about programming to
become a software engineer." My hand was up for the first question and down
for the second question. Given the code samples you have posted, I'd say
your's is still up.

And yes, I have made errors here, but I accept the corrections of others
when appropriate. You obviously do not.

Mike Ober. MIT '85.
 
when Microsoft makes a newsgroup for VB that doens't include the word
DOTNET is when you can have your turn to talk
Click to expand...

I can have "my turn" whenever I want, I don't need you permission.

Since you seem to be so down on Microsoft and VB.NET, I'm simply suggesting
a strategey to help you with your "war".
 
Göran Andersson said:
VB is line based, C# is not. C# is object oriented, VB is not. C# is a
strictly typed language, in VB you don't even have to declare the
variables.
Click to expand...
Which version of VB are you comparing to C#? C# takes the C concept of
semi-colon delimited statements. VB takes the opposite concept of EndOfLine
delimited statements. More languages take the EndOfLine method. VB 2005 is
very definitely object oriented, but gives you the ability to write
procedural code when the task is better modelled via procedural code. VB
2005 is strictly typed - you have to turn this feature on, however.

Mike.
 
Aaron and MP were two different people. Aaron and pfc_sadr and todos menos
and dbahooker and susiedba and larrylinsonjr are all the same person.

Robin S.
-------------------------
 
Michael said:
Which version of VB are you comparing to C#?
Click to expand...

VB6 of course. That's what you were talking about:

"To me it seems that C# has more similarities with VB6 than with C++,
except the exact keywords."
C# takes the C concept of
semi-colon delimited statements.
Click to expand...

Not exactly. In C the statements are separated by semicolon, while in C#
the statements are terminated by semicolon. But it's still in the family
of non-line-based languages.
VB takes the opposite concept of EndOfLine
delimited statements. More languages take the EndOfLine method. VB 2005 is
very definitely object oriented, but gives you the ability to write
procedural code when the task is better modelled via procedural code.
Click to expand...

But VB6 is not.
VB
2005 is strictly typed - you have to turn this feature on, however.
Click to expand...

Yes, so the default behaviour of the language is to not being strictly
typed.
 
Göran Andersson said:
Yes, so the default behaviour of the language is to not being strictly
typed.
Click to expand...

If you modify the templates for VS, it's always strictly typed. I believe
in professional environments almost any project has 'Option Strict On' set.
 
Wow. Brilliant. If that actually compiles in VB6, that is enough of a
reason to abandon that language.
 
CodeMonkey said:
Wow. Brilliant. If that actually compiles in VB6, that is enough of a
reason to abandon that language.
Click to expand...

Sure, it compiles, but what's the problem with that?
 
C# was never invented

sorry

I'm in denial



"C# is like VB" is too generalized.

C# is like VB as both can be used to create applications which run on the
CLR and make use of the .NET Framework.

The MSIL provides some features in the style they have been already
available in VB6, such as properties, for example. Consequently they are
supported by C# in a similar way.

It's always hard to tell which languages influenced another one if a certain
feature is present in more than one existing language. Take short-circuit
logical operators ('AndAlso', 'OrElse') as an example. Does this mean VB
has been influenced by C ('&&', '||')? The answer is, like in the case of
properties, yes and no.

Thus it's important to make a distinction between similarities and the
influence of one language on another.


The term "similar" is not the same as "equal".
Click to expand...
 
the root of the problem is that M$ is too busy screwing around with C#
in order to take VB seriously


I mean seriously here


I call for Ralph Nader to take over the job for Steve Ballmer; Ballmer
is guilty of being a C fag.. and BillG was the savior of VB
 
technically; MP is the only person i've ever met with a brain

the rest of you kids are brainwashed

I wish I was MP
I think that MP should be Sr Management at MSFT.


Maybe he can set them straight.

basically-- i was stuck in the Access newsgroups for years and years
and years and years

and when those dipshits embraced DAO again is when I gave up on Access


DAO wasn't included with Windows or Office for 10 years
and all of a sudden.. it's making a great comeback

sort of like what's going to happen in another 5 years with vb6
 
nice try buddy

I think that we all should handcuff ourselves to the 520 bridge at
4pm

that would show them
 
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