is MBR in the first partition ?

[Rod Speed]

would you know of some of the problems that you
would know/experienced with syscommander ?
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=System Commander&as_ugroup=comp.*.storage&as_scoring=d

 

[Timothy Daniels]

If you want to use the XP boot manager, then the XP partition
needs to be active so the boot manager loads. If you wanted
to copy a image to some partition and have it be bootable,
you'd need to add an entry to the XP boot manager file, boot.ini,
and usually add a boot sector for that new partition to the root
directory where boot.ini is kept. (I used a program from Raxco,
the PerfectDisk guys, called DiskState to add such boot blocks
to my boot.ini.)

Does that mean adding a boot sector to the root directory
of the active OS partition for each bootable partition, or adding
an entry in that root directory pointing to a boot sector within
each bootable partition? Is this procedure documented anywhere?

However, if you already have Partition Magic, can't you install
Boot Magic independently? The last time I looked it was in a
subfolder of the Partition Magic CD/download and had it's own
installer you could use.

I don't have Partition Magic. I was looking for a more
minimalist approach (i.e. cheaper and without all the rest of
the functionality), and I was hoping that there was a way to
do what I want using just WinXP. (All the OS partitions
would each contain a backup of WinXP, BTW.)

*TimDaniels*

 

[Will Dormann]

Does that mean adding a boot sector to the root directory
of the active OS partition for each bootable partition, or adding
an entry in that root directory pointing to a boot sector within
each bootable partition? Is this procedure documented anywhere?

Here's one method described:
http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue36/larriera.html

I've used this to allow my Win2k machine dual boot with Linux. It
involves copying the bootsector data from another partition to a file on
your active partition, and editing boot.ini to point to that bootsector
data with the appropriate label.


-WD

 

[Michael Cecil]

Does that mean adding a boot sector to the root directory
of the active OS partition for each bootable partition, or adding
an entry in that root directory pointing to a boot sector within
each bootable partition? Is this procedure documented anywhere?

Yes, for non-Windows partitions at least. The boot.ini file (which
defines the boot menu) must have an entry for each bootable partition.
Windows bootable partitions only need entries in the boot.ini file, not
separate boot sector files in the root directory.

I don't know if it really documented on the MS site anywhere since they
used to formally be against multi-booting, but once you see how it works
it's pretty simple. The most complex thing is probably figuring out the
arc paths for the Windows entries.

I don't have Partition Magic. I was looking for a more
minimalist approach (i.e. cheaper and without all the rest of
the functionality), and I was hoping that there was a way to
do what I want using just WinXP. (All the OS partitions
would each contain a backup of WinXP, BTW.)

Well, that should be really easy then. Just do your parallel installs
into other partitions and the XP installer will add entries for each new
installation to the existing boot.ini file. It will make each new
installation the default though, so after you finish doing your extra
installs you need to go and manually edit the boot.ini file so it defaults
to the install you desire.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

....Just do your parallel installs
into other partitions and the XP installer will add entries for each new
installation to the existing boot.ini file. It will make each new
installation the default though, so after you finish doing your extra
installs you need to go and manually edit the boot.ini file so it defaults
to the install you desire.

The other WinXP OSes wouldn't be other installs (<groan>, would
*that* take a long time...), they'd merely be periodic backup images
of a single existing and evolving system. I want to capture them period-
ically on one large backup HD and boot to any one of them at the
drop of a hat or crash of a hard drive. Would you just Drive Image
copy them to unused space on the archive HD (making a new
partition in the process) and adjust the boot.ini file somewhere?
Where? What is done with the boot.ini file in the image?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Michael Cecil]

The other WinXP OSes wouldn't be other installs (<groan>, would
*that* take a long time...), they'd merely be periodic backup images
of a single existing and evolving system. I want to capture them period-
ically on one large backup HD and boot to any one of them at the
drop of a hat or crash of a hard drive. Would you just Drive Image
copy them to unused space on the archive HD (making a new
partition in the process) and adjust the boot.ini file somewhere?
Where? What is done with the boot.ini file in the image?

That's similar to what I do (except I use Ghost) but instead of making
backup partitions, I make image files. I use a separate physical drive
just to store image files.

So for instance, if I want to backup my first drive including the boot
sectors in the root directory, I make an image of the first drive
partition to my Image drive as an image file. If I screw up and need to
restore it I just boot off my Ghost CD and restore the image file to the
partition on the first drive. Since the backups are image files, the
files aren't susceptible to viruses or accidental deletion. If I need to
get a old copy of a file from an image file I just use Ghost Explorer to
restore just the file I need. (I imagine Drive Image has something
similar.)

You could do it your way, but the backup partitions wouldn't be bootable
so you wouldn't need to fiddle with boot.ini entries or boot sectors. You
would be able to directly access the files on the backup partitions
though.

 

[Will Dormann]

The other WinXP OSes wouldn't be other installs (<groan>, would
*that* take a long time...), they'd merely be periodic backup images
of a single existing and evolving system. I want to capture them period-
ically on one large backup HD and boot to any one of them at the
drop of a hat or crash of a hard drive. Would you just Drive Image
copy them to unused space on the archive HD (making a new
partition in the process) and adjust the boot.ini file somewhere?
Where? What is done with the boot.ini file in the image?

*TimDaniels*

Wow... talk about doing things the hard way.

Get a program like TrueImage. Create an image of your drive onto
another hard drive, or perhaps even an external drive should you so
choose. Set it up to do scheduled (or manual), incremental backups.

Should disaster strike, use your bootable media to restore your system
to the date of your choice.


-WD

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Wow... talk about doing things the hard way.

Get a program like TrueImage. Create an image of your drive onto
another hard drive, or perhaps even an external drive should you so
choose. Set it up to do scheduled (or manual), incremental backups.

I currently do that with multiple HDs. But I only have 2 unused
HDs for that. Each has the capacity to hold several copies of my
entire system. I'd like to use that capacity to, indeed, hold several
bootable copies of my entire system - each reflective of a different
point in time - and not just one system per HD.

Should disaster strike, use your bootable media to restore your system
to the date of your choice.

I want not to have to rebuild/restore/reconfigure a system should
disaster strike. I want to be able to immediately boot up another
system. (Yes, yes, I have RAID in my planning, but that would
be for fault tolerance, not stepping back to a previous system
state or configuration.)

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

That's similar to what I do (except I use Ghost) but instead of making
backup partitions, I make image files. I use a separate physical drive
just to store image files.

So for instance, if I want to backup my first drive including the boot
sectors in the root directory, I make an image of the first drive
partition to my Image drive as an image file. If I screw up and need to
restore it I just boot off my Ghost CD and restore the image file to the
partition on the first drive.

That restoration step - copying an entire system image to another HD -
is what I want to avoid. I want to just select a partition and boot
to it.

Since the backups are image files, the
files aren't susceptible to viruses or accidental deletion. If I need to
get a old copy of a file from an image file I just use Ghost Explorer to
restore just the file I need. (I imagine Drive Image has something
similar.)

You could do it your way, but the backup partitions wouldn't be
bootable so you wouldn't need to fiddle with boot.ini entries or
boot sectors. You would be able to directly access the files on
the backup partitions though.

Would you happen to know why only one partition on a HD
can be bootable?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Rod Speed]

That restoration step - copying an entire system image to another HD -
is what I want to avoid. I want to just select a partition and boot
to it.

Would you happen to know why only
one partition on a HD can be bootable?

Thats just the basic config with no proper boot manager.

The one with the active flag set is the one that is booted.

With a proper boot manager, the boot manager
looks after which is booted, either by user selection
at boot time, or by default or by timeout.

The better boot managers do whatever it takes to ensure
that the OS being booted will boot, including hiding the
other OSs at boot time, usually by changing the partition
type so they arent easily visible to the OS being booted.

 

[Rod Speed]

I currently do that with multiple HDs. But I only have 2 unused
HDs for that. Each has the capacity to hold several copies of my
entire system. I'd like to use that capacity to, indeed, hold several
bootable copies of my entire system - each reflective of a different
point in time - and not just one system per HD.


I want not to have to rebuild/restore/reconfigure a system should
disaster strike. I want to be able to immediately boot up another
system. (Yes, yes, I have RAID in my planning, but that would
be for fault tolerance, not stepping back to a previous system
state or configuration.)

Then you really need a proper boot manager.

You should be able to do what you want manually tho by fiddling
with the boot.ini but it gets a bit tricky with XP because it trys to
handle changes made behind its back and can end up seriously
confused when booting between clones of XP on the first boot
after the clone has been made.

In theory it will always be possible to correct any changes XP
makes to the boot.ini in that situation, but if for example you
are trying to have a situation where you can almost instantly
boot off the clone when the one you normally boot off has
become virus infected, you could end up in one hell of a mess
depending on what the virus actually does and you may not
actually be able to almost instantly switch to another copy of XP.

And its all getting very anal about a tiny subset of what
can fail. The only way to get a real close to instant carry
on regardless when the brown stuff hits the fan is another
physical system, because your multiple clones approach
wont help with any hardware failure.

Hardware failure is actually much more likely than the failure
of the XP install, particularly if you have a decent firewall etc.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Then you really need a proper boot manager.

You should be able to do what you want manually tho by fiddling
with the boot.ini but it gets a bit tricky with XP because it trys to
handle changes made behind its back and can end up seriously
confused when booting between clones of XP on the first boot
after the clone has been made.

In theory it will always be possible to correct any changes XP
makes to the boot.ini in that situation, but if for example you
are trying to have a situation where you can almost instantly
boot off the clone when the one you normally boot off has
become virus infected, you could end up in one hell of a mess
depending on what the virus actually does and you may not
actually be able to almost instantly switch to another copy of XP.

Since the boot manager could get virus-infected, it sounds
like a recommendation for keeping with one HD per
bootable system backup.

And its all getting very anal about a tiny subset of what
can fail. The only way to get a real close to instant carry
on regardless when the brown stuff hits the fan is another
physical system, because your multiple clones approach
wont help with any hardware failure.

When I can afford it, my man! Thanks for sharing
your experience.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

"Rod Speed" answered:

Thats just the basic config with no proper boot manager.

The one with the active flag set is the one that is booted.

With a proper boot manager, the boot manager
looks after which is booted, either by user selection
at boot time, or by default or by timeout.

The better boot managers do whatever it takes to ensure
that the OS being booted will boot, including hiding the
other OSs at boot time, usually by changing the partition
type so they arent easily visible to the OS being booted.

Thanks, Rod.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Since the boot manager could get virus-infected,
it sounds like a recommendation for keeping with
one HD per bootable system backup.

Nope, if you really need close to instant recovery
when anything bad happens, the only thing that
provides that is a spare system, left turned off.

Then the most you have to do is turn off the
system that has failed, in case its virus infected,
turn on the spare. It doesnt get any faster than
that, particularly if the spare is hibernated.

When I can afford it, my man!

Doesnt cost much if its just for net access etc, my boy |-)

Thanks for sharing your experience.

No problem, this stuff is more subtle than it looks, mainly
because most dont actually see the problem situations very often.